Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Aanchir]

Simply because they're skeletons doesn't automatically imply they should lack armour. I can find numerous examples of skeleton warriors with beefy armour. These are good examples of skeleton warriors that are still clear and obvious skeletons, but still have quite some armour. It's just a matter of taste, more or less armour doesn't make them any more or less skeletal.

-Iben

Skull Basher and Grinder basically do have as much armor as some of those examples you linked to. But conversely, just because they're skeletons doesn't mean they should HAVE bulky armor either. Variety is the spice of life (and in this case, undeath). And there are undead warriors in other franchises that opt for a more "bare-bones" approach.

All things considered, one of the things I love about Skull Slicer is that he does feel unique compared to the others. Rather than some armored brute, he looks lean and agile. And I'm already cringing at the prospect of "revamps" that would seek to turn a character like that into an armored powerhouse out of some misguided notion that more armor is inherently better.

[Toa Eljay]

Skull Basher and Grinder basically do have as much armor as some of those examples you linked to. But conversely, just because they're skeletons doesn't mean they should HAVE bulky armor either. Variety is the spice of life (and in this case, undeath). And there are undead warriors in other franchises that opt for a more "bare-bones" approach.

All things considered, one of the things I love about Skull Slicer is that he does feel unique compared to the others. Rather than some armored brute, he looks lean and agile. And I'm already cringing at the prospect of "revamps" that would seek to turn a character like that into an armored powerhouse out of some misguided notion that more armor is inherently better.

On the flip side of that coin, one could argue that it is that lean look that is the issue. In fact, that's what everyone already does. They're gunning for the skeletal look, so one oughta ask: What's a skeleton?

Obviously, these are - as you noted - undead skeletons. Meaning that they were once living... Toa? Protectors? Protectoa? Anyways, since they're decayed and undead, shouldn't that be reflected? While Slicer looks lean and mean, I'd argue that Warrior does it better. He has armor, but not too much. Just enough to remind us that he was once alive, and has decayed. Yet, he still has enough of a lack of armor to remind us that he is, in fact, a skeleton.

[Aanchir]

On the flip side of that coin, one could argue that it is that lean look that is the issue. In fact, that's what everyone already does. They're gunning for the skeletal look, so one oughta ask: What's a skeleton?

Obviously, these are - as you noted - undead skeletons. Meaning that they were once living... Toa? Protectors? Protectoa? Anyways, since they're decayed and undead, shouldn't that be reflected? While Slicer looks lean and mean, I'd argue that Warrior does it better. He has armor, but not too much. Just enough to remind us that he was once alive, and has decayed. Yet, he still has enough of a lack of armor to remind us that he is, in fact, a skeleton.

Personally, Warrior just doesn't do it for me. Maybe part of it is just the awkward way he's posed, but the chaotic armor and color blocking just makes his design feel imbalanced to me. Even if I did like his design, though, that would still be all the more reason NOT to have Slicer share that same physique, because that would leave the two sets feeling more redundant.

The idea that a character needs armor for you to be able to tell they are a skeleton doesn't make any sense to me. It's still painfully obvious that Skull Slicer is undead even without extra armor spoiling his bony silhouette. Why should we assume that he was once a living creature of the same shape, or that he was as heavily armored as the others when he was alive, or that he ought to have kept any of that bulk in death? His extra arms give him all the added bulk that I think he needs.

[CabooseBM]

So, this pinches the arms in, correct? In a clapping/hugging/squeezing motion? I'll have a go at replicating this at some stage, and test it. Did it use elastic bands? Can't remember.

And also, why the hell is everyone whining about these guys not having much armour? They're bloody skeletons, do you expect them to be beefy?

Well, Skeletor is pretty popular and also a Beefcake Skellington.

[MakutaDreadscythe]

Personally, Warrior just doesn't do it for me. Maybe part of it is just the awkward way he's posed, but the chaotic armor and color blocking just makes his design feel imbalanced to me. Even if I did like his design, though, that would still be all the more reason NOT to have Slicer share that same physique, because that would leave the two sets feeling more redundant.

The idea that a character needs armor for you to be able to tell they are a skeleton doesn't make any sense to me. It's still painfully obvious that Skull Slicer is undead even without extra armor spoiling his bony silhouette. Why should we assume that he was once a living creature of the same shape, or that he was as heavily armored as the others when he was alive, or that he ought to have kept any of that bulk in death? His extra arms give him all the added bulk that I think he needs.

I understand being unique, but this isn't always about being unique, its about making a set that looks good. I feel the numerous bone-bones do the job enough, the other exposed bones feel a bit overkill IMO.

[Toa of Gallifrey]

At first I mainly liked MMvsSG, and Basher, with the rest being sort of eh but every time I look at them, I can't help but like them more. Warrior is probably my least favorite cause the coolest thing about it is its bow (at least by looking at it, it might have an awesome design that makes itself evident when building). Slicer was my least favorite before but I've really warmed up to it. I just wish its trans-apple green bones were the new bones, though that's just because I want the new bones in that color, not because I dislike the uncovered bones. I would've liked a different mask (or at least a new recolor) but if it has a story reason I'm all for it. I've also really warmed up to Scorpio, its legs look less scrawny than I thought and its tail is growing on me (though I wish both pincers unified into one), because at the end of it that's what I want out of a Rahi (or whatever it is), a weird take on an animal/legendary creature/whatever, like how the Tarakava is a boxing lizard. The only things I don't like are its humanoid head (although the mask looks great), which looks bizarre (and that's comparing it to the tail) and its lack of articulation (though maybe it has a function on its legs or they're attached some way that allows movement, I dunno).

[ZORK64]

Finally, pictures of the new toys.

I have mixed feelings about the new skeletal bones. I like the overall look of them, even though they're not a versatile as the bones we've come to get used to over the past few years. But they look pretty sweet nonetheless.

I also LOVE the new axe piece that Grinder and Basher come equipped with, mostly for the prospect of actually having a worthy successor to Axonn's axe which is still used by my Self-MOC.

Edited January 31, 2015 by ZORK64

[DraikNova]

I'm already thinking up revamps for the sets, and I think I might turn, as Aanchir puts it, Skull Slicer's "lean and agile" into a creepily thin eldritch abomination sort of look. I already know that I'm going to give Skull Scorpio Skull Spider masks as claws, LoSS's face plate and that I may end up using the official version's torso, but I can't figure out what it's fourth color should be, besides black, tr. neon green and dark blue. Any suggestions?

[Mutant Orc]

Finally, pictures of the new toys.

I have mixed feelings about the new skeletal bones. I like the overall look of them, even though they're not a versatile as the bones we've come to get used to over the past few years. But they look pretty sweet nonetheless.

I also LOVE the new axe piece Grinder and Basher, mostly for the prospect of actually having a worthy successor to Axonn's axe which is still used by my Self-MOC.

You know the rules, these aren't toys, they're actually a highly sophisticated inter-locking brick bone and plate system!

I agree with you on the new bones, they work well for what they're meant to be and I'm sure there will be plenty of uses for them that'll emerge as time goes by despite their lack of a connection point in the middle.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Mutant Orc

[Iben]

Skull Basher and Grinder basically do have as much armor as some of those examples you linked to. But conversely, just because they're skeletons doesn't mean they should HAVE bulky armor either. Variety is the spice of life (and in this case, undeath). And there are undead warriors in other franchises that opt for a more "bare-bones" approach.

All things considered, one of the things I love about Skull Slicer is that he does feel unique compared to the others. Rather than some armored brute, he looks lean and agile. And I'm already cringing at the prospect of "revamps" that would seek to turn a character like that into an armored powerhouse out of some misguided notion that more armor is inherently better.

Oh, I believe you didn't get my point. I'm not advocating for more or less armour, I was only implying that "skeleton warriors don't need a lot of armour because they're skeletons" isn't really a valid argument. I was merely pointing out that the amount of armour has little influence on "how skeletal" a figure is.

I do agree that Skull Slicer is at best when he's lean and agile, but I don't necessarily think that means he can't use a little more armour on some places. Like in the picture I showed, there was a skeletal warrior that had like this small wrist armour, that would have worked well for this type of build. Or, perhaps it would have been better if the tr. bright-green bone pieces were the same as the new "skeleton" bone pieces, because in my opinion it's the open balljoints that slightly bother me about his build.

-Iben

Edited January 30, 2015 by Iben

[Logan McOwen]

So I just made a mockup of Skull Basher's mechanism...

...gosh it's silly.

[Rayskull]

So I just made a mockup of Skull Basher's mechanism...

...gosh it's silly.

Why?

[DraikNova]

Oh, I believe you didn't get my point. I'm not advocating for more or less armour, I was only implying that "skeleton warriors don't need a lot of armour because they're skeletons" isn't really a valid argument. I was merely pointing out that the amount of armour has little influence on "how skeletal" a figure is.

I do agree that Skull Slicer is at best when he's lean and agile, but I don't necessarily think that means he can't use a little more armour on some places. Like in the picture I showed, there was a skeletal warrior that had like this small wrist armour, that would have worked well for this type of build. Or, perhaps it would have been better if the tr. bright-green bone pieces were the same as the new "skeleton" bone pieces, because in my opinion it's the open balljoints that slightly bother me about his build.

-Iben

I think the size 3 armor pieces in black would have had the best effect, especially if placed assymetrically. Small, decayed scraps of armor, almost like wrist guards, which seem very fitting for the type of warrior I imagine Slicer as.

Edited January 30, 2015 by DraikNova

[MakutaDreadscythe]

So I just made a mockup of Skull Basher's mechanism...

...gosh it's silly.

Can't help but think of this when I try and imagine Skull Basher's function.

[Bigger Fish]

Skull Basher has SUPER HUGGING ACTION!!!

Aslo, wouldn't it be funny if Skull Grinder sounded like Skeletor in the web show? I'm really excited for all the new sets, I'll post my new opinions about them later.

P.S. Whenever I see Skull Slicer's trans green bones, I get the craving for sour green apple gel candy. I don't know why though.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Bigger Fish

[VBBN]

P.S. Whenever I see Skull Slicer's trans green bones, I get the craving for sour green apple gel candy. I don't know why though.

I hate green apple candy.

Maybe that's why I've never cared much for trans bright green.

[SpiderSpaceman]

So as the first dip into uncharted territory (branching off of the familiar elements of champions, villagers, predatory beasts, and tiny face hijackers), it could be more solid I think but I like them alright.

Basher looks uglier than I thought, and that's saying something. The new bone pieces are completely useless, from the look of it, lacking even a hole for a stud and having ridiculously thin edges. Bones are usually a lot thicker than that. And the torso is awful. Ekimu looks worse if anything, but that's probably just the lighting.

I don't understand why anyone expected any extra connections on the bones. They are arguably only appropriate to stylistically depict bones, barring some out of the box thinking. Seemed pretty obvious to me.

I love Basher's torso print. But I don't like his mask nor his horns (too big, IMO).

If Skull Basher had a face with more bulk that fit snugly up to the horns, I'd be way into it. As is, it does not, in my opinion, fit the concept well at all. And in general I would have much rathered no face repeats.

Glad to see that even some of the humanoid baddies will have unconventional action features, rather than just every one of them having the same vertically-swinging arms as the Toa! I was worried, after learning that most of the new baddies were humanoid, that we wouldn't see a whole lot of creativity on a functional level. But it's good to see that that's not the case.

Incidentally, I'm not sure if it's been brought up here, but there are rumors of Star Wars buildable figure sets. Not clear if these are pure CCBS sets (the descriptions we've gotten seem a bit contradictory), but this might be part of the reason for the new "bony" beam pieces — a lot of droids in the Star Wars universe have very bony limbs that the existing CCBS beams might not be the most fit to replicate.

I do like this and I figured it'd happen at some point. The gearbox in the configurations seen obviously shouldn't be the end-all same function in every set forever. The Rahkshi got a side swing, the Knights Kingdom figures all got varied attacks after the first wave of them - of course locked in to the one piece bodies, which is bogus, but the point is figures with different attacks interact well. The LoSS actually kept me from fearing that action features would stagnate in upright figures.

I'd been playing around with designs for a Bionicle I inspired/compatible 3D printing project during fall 2013 up to the discovery of actual official Bionicle (and temporarily abandoned due to a rough patch for my imagination) but I intended different technic functions for each figure in a single wave. I'm happy to see Lego basically doing that.

Though these mostly suck,

I think the parts are awesome.

My wallet empties.

Oh hey, a Haiku!

No one appreciates this?

Here ya go, buddy.

I like it because it actually emphasizes the battle/"knock the mask off" function, moreso than the sets in winter. The horns are something tangible that can actually be hit, easier than the back of the head.

Just makes me think of flicking off somebody's baseball cap. Absurd advantage to the toa.

[Kalhiki]

On the armor discussion: I feel that if a skeleton has armor, there should be a lot of empty space. Part of the reason why I really like what they did with Grinder. His chest and torso armor is extended out which leaves a lot open inside: the void that's left when tissue and inside squishy bits are gone.

Anywho, the more I look at them, the more I like them. There's a nice variety among the sets, and they definitely look... Skeletal.

[Scarilian]

The issue with the armour pieces on the Skeleton members is that the new armour piece is more bulky and doesnt stay near to the body, as such it goes outwards making its use as knee-pads weird, giving the sets incredibly odd proportions. The knee's grow larger and larger and then shrink to the new bone piece instantly. When used as shoulder pads the same thing happens because the armour piece is made so that it juts out, rather than sticking to the shoulder, so it doesnt really look like armour, more like a moulded 'cloth' piece (Hence the original description despite it looking nothing like cloth)

The sets needed more armour in order to look right, its like this guy. If you remove the upper leg, lower chest armour and gauntlets. As you can see the Skeletal bones are too thin and small, made much worse in the set when they have a gap in the middle. The armour needed to be dispersed more over the armour or completely abandoned (Such as Warrior's arm)

Armour on Skeleton figures can work but it needs to be done so that it would have good proportions if the armour was not their, these sets dont have that because the bone pieces are made so thin and gappy. If they wanted the bone design to work it needed to be more of an extended version of this piece;

Edited January 30, 2015 by Scarilian

[Timeline15]

On the armor discussion: I feel that if a skeleton has armor, there should be a lot of empty space. Part of the reason why I really like what they did with Grinder. His chest and torso armor is extended out which leaves a lot open inside: the void that's left when tissue and inside squishy bits are gone.

I do not believe for a second that that was a deliberate, aesthetic choice. The gappy torso syndrome has happened plenty of times before, and will happen again, as part of lego's ongoing mission to use as few pieces as possible. Ekimu has a gappy torso too, and he isn't a skeleton. Nor are the toa, some of whom also share this problem.

On a more positive note, I love that the new skull masks look like modified skull spider ones. They all share the Klingon forehead ridge thingies, amongst other aesthetics. makes me wish they all had the connection points the first mask does, so they could be used as different breeds of skull spider.

[Nekchir]

What if the Skull Villains were originally a lot bulkier when they were 'alive', but after hundreds of years of being buried caused their organic parts an armor to disintegrate? Sorta explains the 'gappiness' of that new add-on and missing armor plates. Story-wise I mean.

Edited January 30, 2015 by MonkeyChud

[Timeline15]

Either that or they're just animated piles of bone that don't represent specific entities at all. Interesting to see if we ever find out.

Either way, I don't normally like to let storyline stuff excuse aesthetically poor looking set design. Witch doctor pulled off the skeleton look pretty well with only a mask and some tubing, so the idea that you have to make them skinny and gappy to make accurate skeletons doesn't hold water for me.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Timeline15

[Scarilian]

What if the Skull Villains were originally a lot bulkier when they were 'alive', but after hundreds of years of being buried caused their organic parts an armor to disintegrate? Sorta explains the 'gappiness' of that new add-on and missing armor plates. Story-wise I mean.

If it was intentional to make a piece that caused gappiness and ruined the asthetic of the set then thats just a bizarre choice on Lego's part...

Even if that was the case the armour piece implies that they all have an organic structure that rivals a Rob Leifield character, to the extent where they would be so massive and organic i could hardly call them a Bionicle anymore. You can give it a try yourself via filling the area out based on how large the armour pieces are and see just how large they would be. Given the armour piece is the same size they'd all have the same sized muscle structure regardless of their overall size as a set. Their is no way the proportions of Skull Grinder should be the exact same as Skull Warrior, yet according to the armour piece they should be identical. Such is the issue of making a single new armour piece for all.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Scarilian

[Mesonak]

I do not believe for a second that that was a deliberate, aesthetic choice. The gappy torso syndrome has happened plenty of times before, and will happen again, as part of lego's ongoing mission to use as few pieces as possible. Ekimu has a gappy torso too, and he isn't a skeleton. Nor are the toa, some of whom also share this problem.

Agreed 100%. The gappy torso design has long since plagued figures who use the grey liftarm with the ball joint in the center to extend their torso outwards. It's absolutely atrociously handled in Skull Grinder's case.

Edited January 31, 2015 by Mesonak

[Nekchir]

I have no idea what's going on anymore. Everything I know about the sets and Bionicle is now wrong.

Edited January 31, 2015 by MonkeyChud