Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Kingslayer]

I feel vaguely targeted, so I'm going to clarify that I am already on board the obvious reproduction camp, I merely think the more magi-mechanical "building" is way cooler. AND thematic! =V

I think it fist for G1 though I don't like the fact the Turaga control it. Doesn't make too much sense IMO. Were Matoran still being made on Mata Nui, because I always like the survival feel of that island.

[The Kumquat Alchemist]

I think it fist for G1 though I don't like the fact the Turaga control it. Doesn't make too much sense IMO. Were Matoran still being made on Mata Nui, because I always like the survival feel of that island.

Nope, on the island of Mata Nui, no one had access to the tech needed to make Masks, true Kanoka Disks, or Matoran.

Edited February 7, 2015 by The Kumquat Alchemist

[ZORK64]

Kinda late to the party, as always, but I want to share my thoughts about the more recent posts of this debate. So...

It just makes it harder to understand for me. When I look at things such as droids in Star Wars, like C-3PO, of course they're shown with personalities and a "soul". But when you try to think about it, it is extremely confusing and mind-crushing to just attempt to make sense of HOW they can have a soul.

To me, the concept that a being's cells could evolve to the point that it takes on the appearance and characteristics of a metal is more** believable than the idea that a guy makes a computer, and then POP--it now has a soul!

**Still pretty confusing, but at least it is somewhat scientifically possible. Animals can grow shells, or exoskeletons, and it is possible for it to evolve into harder substances.

Eh, as far as my experiences with Science Fiction are concerned, I see no reason why robots can't have souls. Transformers have sparks, and from Mega Man Zero onward, robo folks in the Mega Man franchise can become cyber elves or something similiar, which basically means they become souls or ghosts. So if the characters reproduce by building their kids, it wouldn't really make them less lifeless to me.

Though that doesn't mean I'm completely opposed to the possibility of some sort of strange biomechanical reproduction, especially since just building sounds kinda mundane to me. You know, something like when Bionicle-Mommy and Bionicle-Daddy really really really love each other, they do some sort of weird ritual thing where create some sort of energy thing which then becomes a new Bionicle.

Robots(cyborgs) "building" their "children" is less apealing to me because it implies that the characters are more machine and less sentient, meaning they don't have emotions, personality, etc.

And this "target audience", I don't care about the "target audience". I'm a gen 1 fan coming from a time when TLG actually gave a shit about the fans and not just making some toys. They're not just "some toys" to me. Everybody needs to stop being sales specialists or whatever on this forum.

This "target audience" consists actually of fans just like you and me, though probably a lot younger (at least younger than me), and even though LEGO was always aware of the AFOLs, I'm still pretty sure that even back then, they were designing the sets with children as the target demographic in mind.

So the discussion about a target audience when it comes to talking about how the franchise is going to approach more serious or complex issues (such as love and romance in this case, or other topics like death) does make sense, because it's just something we have to keep in mind in this situation. Bionicle is mostly aimed towards kids (or young teenagers, whatever). That will eventually determine what the storywriters possibly can get away with.

[Clone 01354 Productions]

I just realized that in Episode 5, the narrator says that the Toa defeated the Skull Spiders. So....Was that seriously it? Are the Skull Spiders really done already, and they won't even appear in the summer story? Ugh.....

Also, is there a date for when they will be releasing the books (or comics; I forgot which one was confirmed)? I really hope that they go deeper into the story.

[Mandate]

I just realized that in Episode 5, the narrator says that the Toa defeated the Skull Spiders. So....Was that seriously it? Are the Skull Spiders really done already, and they won't even appear in the summer story? Ugh.....

Also, is there a date for when they will be releasing the books (or comics; I forgot which one was confirmed)? I really hope that they go deeper into the story.

Nah, it'll just be revealed next year they had good intentions the whole time of preventing the Toa from releasing Makuta and only tried to murder everything because it was the only way to save Okoto.

*COUGH*

(please note that none of this sarcasm is directed towards you, only lazily written retcons)

[Quisoves Pugnat]

Nah, it'll just be revealed next year they had good intentions the whole time of preventing the Toa from releasing Makuta and only tried to murder everything because it was the only way to save Okoto.

*COUGH*

(please note that none of this sarcasm is directed towards you, only lazily written retcons)

While we seem to have evidence to the contrary, this actually wouldn't be so implausible for BIONICLE. The intention was always for the Bohrok be attempting to help Mata Nui awaken, and the plan even seems to have been for Makuta to be merely misguided at one point.

[Mandate]

While we seem to have evidence to the contrary, this actually wouldn't be so implausible for BIONICLE. The intention was always for the Bohrok be attempting to help Mata Nui awaken, and the plan even seems to have been for Makuta to be merely misguided at one point.

...I wasn't referring to BIONICLE.

[Clone 01354 Productions]

So anyway....I got Pohatu today, and I must say that I was slightly disappointed. Out of all the Toa, he seems to be the most generic build, and he's too short compared to the other Toa. Then again, he was always the short one.(Even in 2008 when all the Toa's defining characteristics (*cough* color schemes *cough*) were thrown out the window......)

Those boomerangs though.....

[DuckBricks]

While we seem to have evidence to the contrary, this actually wouldn't be so implausible for BIONICLE. The intention was always for the Bohrok be attempting to help Mata Nui awaken, and the plan even seems to have been for Makuta to be merely misguided at one point.

While he was referring to Ninjago, those articles are very intriguing!

[Bigger Fish]

So anyway....I got Pohatu today, and I must say that I was slightly disappointed. Out of all the Toa, he seems to be the most generic build, and he's too short compared to the other Toa. Then again, he was always the short one.(Even in 2008 when all the Toa's defining characteristics (*cough* color schemes *cough*) were thrown out the window......)

Those boomerangs though.....

I always imagined Pohatu to be the bigger, bulkier one and Onua to be the shorter, stockier one. (Like a dwarf.)

[Aethersprite]

So anyway....I got Pohatu today, and I must say that I was slightly disappointed. Out of all the Toa, he seems to be the most generic build, and he's too short compared to the other Toa. Then again, he was always the short one.(Even in 2008 when all the Toa's defining characteristics (*cough* color schemes *cough*) were thrown out the window......)

Those boomerangs though.....

I agree, Pohatu seems to be the weakest of the Toa. His only saving graces are the boomerangs, his dark orange pieces, and that gorgeous Kakama. It's my favourite of the new Kanohi.

Speaking of Pohatu, what's to be the consensus on flipping his gearbox to give him kicking legs? It's definitely possible, sure, but I vaguely remember someone who tried it mentioned that it was inelegant.

[Dorek]

What, like the original design was ever elegant?

[Mandate]

What, like the original design was ever elegant?

Meanwhile, at LEGO HQ in June 2001...

"Alright, we need to find a way to give Pohatu his own dual-function weapon for his Toa Nuva form!"

"Make his shoes turn into swords?"

"That's a terrible idea! No, we need something far more unrealistic and stupid!"

"Can we give him daggers that can turn into a football?"

"That's a great idea! I'll contact the design team!"

Over 9000 Koli players sliced their feet in half soon after.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Mandate

[Aethersprite]

What, like the original design was ever elegant?

Just because the original design wasn't elegant, doesn't mean the new one can't be! It didn't feel so... Awkward, to me at least.

[Kingslayer]

So anyway....I got Pohatu today, and I must say that I was slightly disappointed. Out of all the Toa, he seems to be the most generic build, and he's too short compared to the other Toa. Then again, he was always the short one.(Even in 2008 when all the Toa's defining characteristics (*cough* color schemes *cough*) were thrown out the window......)

Those boomerangs though.....

I really recommend raising his gear box to Kopakas height(a notch below Lewas) and adding a couple of y joints onto the open ball joints. Looks a lot broader and strong then

[Shakar]

While we seem to have evidence to the contrary, this actually wouldn't be so implausible for BIONICLE. The intention was always for the Bohrok be attempting to help Mata Nui awaken, and the plan even seems to have been for Makuta to be merely misguided at one point.

I did NOT know about this. I'm not being sarcastic, I honestly didn't. This was such a good read. I remember when I watched MoL for the first time and I was confused at some of Makuta's lines. I thought "Well, I guess they'll explain them in the next years", but they didn't. But even at that time, while I didn't have a big access to BIONICLE media (I discovered BZP in 2004- Lego.com was pretty much my only source back then), I did get the idea they wanted to give Makuta a hint of duality- 11 year old me couldn't quite make it out, but he knew it was there.

Now, taking Teridax's "updated" characterization into account, I suppose you can handwave most of those lines as sarcasm (it's not that 01-03 Makuta didn't have shades of a trollish attitude, especially in MNOG). But that idea of Makuta being an ambiguous villain (I mean a well done one, not a forced inconsistent trainwreck of a character *coughorangeninjamangacough*).. I would've really liked to see it.

Maybe they're going to follow the original plan for G2, with Makuta being a more sympathetic character (there are already showing some hints of this, given the what we know about the MoUP). It's not that ALL Lego villains are pure evil anyway- a number of Ninjago and Chima villains have shown a fair amount of ambiguity.

[Still Raindrop]

It's fascinating--they may be following a Makuta-story that's much more similar to the abandoned one (judging by the idea that, in the original plan for G1, the Mask of Shadows seemed to be clouding his judgement, just as the MoUP seems to be doing now). I hope this is the case--I think I'd really like it if done well.

[Kalhiki]

While we seem to have evidence to the contrary, this actually wouldn't be so implausible for BIONICLE. The intention was always for the Bohrok be attempting to help Mata Nui awaken, and the plan even seems to have been for Makuta to be merely misguided at one point.

You don't understand how sad this makes me. If only Makuta could'a been that guy. I was always curious about the "My duty is to the Mask of Shadows" line. What? That never made any sense. So hopefully in G2, the MoUP is truly the evil one here and Makuta's duty is to it.

I really do enjoy villains that aren't actually evil, but rather are doing things for the greater good through methods that are... questionable at best.

[Timeline15]

To be honest, while Teridax sound's more interesting in the proposed scenario, I'm still glad they didn't do that, since it would have affectively ended the story in 2003, before I even really knew Bionicle existed. I prefer another 6 years of story to one good revelation any day.

[Clone 01354 Productions]

I really recommend raising his gear box to Kopakas height(a notch below Lewas) and adding a couple of y joints onto the open ball joints. Looks a lot broader and strong then

Thanks for the tips! He does look much better, but still too plain.....

You don't understand how sad this makes me. If only Makuta could'a been that guy. I was always curious about the "My duty is to the Mask of Shadows" line. What? That never made any sense. So hopefully in G2, the MoUP is truly the evil one here and Makuta's duty is to it.

Yeah, that line confused me too. Through all the years, from MoL to 2008, I always thought the final showdown was going to involve Teridax's mask being ripped off and destroyed, and then Teridax would help awaken Mata Nui. Obviously, that was completely incorrect, but I had no access to any media outside of BIONICLE.com, and that line in MoL was what drove me to that insane conclusion.

I really, really hope that Makuta (Gen 2) ends up like that, and---Wait: what if Makuta was good, but at the end of the Gen 2 story, he puts on the MOUP again, and casts the island into turmoil?! And the mask that Teridax wears is--THE MOUP?!?!?! <Please note this is a 100% sarcastic theory.>

[the last chronicler]

I feel MAKUTA's story this year is a sort of a Pandora's box/"careful what you wish for" thing, and having a good Makuta would muddle that concept. Makuta tried to be all powerful, and failed.

As for Robotic vs Biomechanical, it is still called BIONICLE, they age, the sets have pistons, and the transparent parts adds a sense of fluids or magic. They can't really be defined as the same as Gen 1, but it seems they have a living elements and a metal elements within their design, and as far as I'm concerted half Hero Factory robot or half Gen 1 mechanical character with organics still fits with the definition of Biomechanical or at least cyborg-ish.

I know LEGO hasn't been specific about reproduction (for obvious reasons) or the nature of the characters composition, but that doesn't mean Lego is lying with or stretching the information we currently have, and you can't really explain it in the story without adding fully organic characters as well to prevent breaking the fourth wall.

Also, as for machine vs children, children are less magical, but the machine is more cold and emotionless. I almost like the idea of grow capsules, like growing inside a canister. Maybe they should come out of the ground?

Anyways, considering the high-tech city is destroyed, and there is a young protector, a baby machine being the source in GEN 2 seems unlikely.

[Toa of Gallifrey]

Maybe G2 is the aftermath of the Team Fortress 2 Mann vs. Machine campaign and the Toa are combos of the humans and the robots. HL3 confirmed?

In all seriousness, I'm just gonna guess they give birth in G2 given there's a child Protector unless stated otherwise.

[CabooseBM]

^^Pohatu: Built entirely out of Australium.

[Clone 01354 Productions]

and the transparent parts adds a sense of fluids or magic.

Hmm, I never thought of it that way! I always hated the trans-pieces, but pretending they're "magical" does add a nice little effect to the sets.

Anyways, considering the high-tech city is destroyed,

What high-tech city? The ancient city seemed to be very tribal and simple. In fact, now that I think about it, there is really no technology in Gen 2: from what we know, the characters are organic, they don't have any vehicles, and the guns are "elemental blasters".

Also, I just realized something that really annoys me: the Toa appeared to have no elemental power (or, at least, mastery) until they put on the golden masks. So how is Pohatu flying everywhere in a tornado? I mean, I doubt throwing a boomerang is his elemental power, so.....

[the last chronicler]

Hmm, I never thought of it that way! I always hated the trans-pieces, but pretending they're "magical" does add a nice little effect to the sets.

I like the look of transparent, but it's hard to argue for their existence is mechanical-themed sets (and masks) for sure. Since the Protectors and summer masks have transparent colours I'm inclined to think their is an implication of a higher magic within them.

This may be a good time to bring up my theory that the gold on the masks isn't 'real,' but a sign of their being made by the Mask of Creation which dissipates as they are worn to reveal the elemental powers. Or maybe the transparency appears as the masks reach the forge or as they get closer to Ekimu/Mask of creation?

What high-tech city? The ancient city seemed to be very tribal and simple. In fact, now that I think about it, there is really no technology in Gen 2: from what we know, the characters are organic, they don't have any vehicles, and the guns are "elemental blasters".

Sorry, I was blending Gen 1 ideas in thinking about the city as being part of a higher civilization, but I guess since BIONICLE blends magic with science one can think of The Mask Makers creations as the highest cultural and technological accomplishment of the society, and if anything of that complexity exists to create villagers I question it's survival post-cataclysm or if it exists at all. Which would be my argument for some sort of biological not technological origin for villagers. Otherwise they look like robots with mechanical pistons so I feel they are somewhat technological.

Also, I just realized something that really annoys me: the Toa appeared to have no elemental power (or, at least, mastery) until they put on the golden masks. So how is Pohatu flying everywhere in a tornado? I mean, I doubt throwing a boomerang is his elemental power, so.....

I think the Toa have innate environmental elemental powers like the night-vision, strength, fire-resistance of the classic Toa that hint at their full powers, but gaining the masks could be compared to Harry Potter getting his wand and learning to concentrate his powers.

Edited February 9, 2015 by the last chronicler