Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Shakar]

I actually didn't notice the flying creatures until you guys pointed them out. Maybe they're just bats put there for extra spokyness?

[Scarilian]

I figured them mentioning the Vahi at NYCC was just them explaining that G2 will have things in common with G1, but they'll change it a bit. Make it similar but different. In G1, Tahu wore the Mask of Shielding. In G2, he wears the Mask of Fire. G1 Makuta was the big bad evil. G2 Makuta is still the big bad evil, but has a different history. The G1 Mask of Time looked like half a mask. The G2 Mask of Time will look like a full mask.

'Least that's how I interpreted it.

Seems kind of a redundant statement if that were the case. I just feel if they were going to say that we were going to have a different Mask Of Time, they could have worded it better, instead its kind of intentionally bringing up Legends Of Metru Nui, Vakama, The Vahi and its design...

He brought up the mask of time in answer to a question about the new story and any connection to the old one. His answer was pure marketing: "remember in the movie we had a character make the mask if time? But it was different from the other masks, it was only half a mask? In the new series we will have a full mask."

Thats the thing though, the lack of a straight answer, if they were trying to explain that certain elements were being re-used then they could have said that. If we were getting a new Mask Of Time that didnt have any connection to the old then i'm confused as to why they would know certain details and forget the rest... for example, rather than stating 'Remember in Legends Of Metru Nui when Vakama made the Vahi?'. I mean, its something a representative from Lego was told to tell people, so how would telling them that answer their question as to whether G2 is connected to G1, personally it just allows for wiggle room in the future.

If his answer to whether their would be a connection is refrencing a prior movie with a prior Mask Of Time, then that causes confusion. Whether his statement implies we are getting a new mask of time, a new vahi, a full version of the vahi (combined with the original) is up for debate because of the openess. Once again, it doesnt really specify an answer to whether the stories are connected either, all his answer tells us is that their will be a Mask Of Time and it will be a full mask.

This whole "other half of the vahi" nonsense has no bearing in reality and no place even in speculative discussion. It is a twisted new meaning taken from a poorly-described conversation, entirely re-writing what was said.

Actually, it does have bearing in reality and speculative discussion. As you specified the exact qoute he said implies that the new mask is a full mask. Their are many possible ways that the Vahi could be connected to this full mask, given his statement is also intended to be in response to the stories being connected.

E.g. what if the G2 mask of time was the original mask that is split in half later on forming the Vahi and another mask OR if this G2 mask is the Vahi combined with a second half that was not introduced prior.

Which boils down to: "We had a mask of time before, we have one now, but this one will cover the whole face." It is a connection the same way the Toa are, the same way a Spider-Man reboot is connected to previous incarnations by using Venom or the Scorpion. "We will also have these things though they will also be different" is a pretty common thing to say in most reboot discussions. It just seems like BIONICLE fans have somehow sheltered ourselves from all the other major media franchises that have rebooted.

If it was as simple as that then we would have had that explanation, a simple yes or no answer from the Lego representative, instead a Lego group representative was advised to tell people to remember Legends Of Metru Nui and purposefully bring that up in their mind when asked if it was connected to the old universe. Their are easy ways of telling fans that its not connected or that it is.

Its not that the fans are sheltered, far from it, its that people actually realise that a reboot doesnt mean completely discarding elements nowadays. The word 'Reboot' no longer is as simple as it used to be as we have semi-reboots, re-invisionings, quasi-reboots, solid reboots and more.

As for what kind of reboot Bionicle is this time around only time will tell, but for the moment it is not concrete that this is a solid reboot so i dont see why that is the only option that you gravitate to at the moment, while their is the possibility that you are correct and it is simply just taking old elements, a lot of things dont really add-up

Edited February 28, 2015 by Scarilian

[Mandate]

Can we please not get into the debate about the Vahi again?

[Scarilian]

Can we please not get into the debate about the Vahi again?

If people want to discuss something then they bring it up, people brought up the Vahi and started a discussion, if you dont want to be part of that discussion then simply start another topic of discussion. I dont particularly desire to talk about the Vahi either, but it was the topic at hand.

[Dorek]

I can't say anything that Deevs hasn't already said. Everything mentioned, done, etc. says "reboot". It's only weird usage of the term "soft reboot" in 2009 (that Greg tried to distance himself from anyway because he knows what reboot means) that's giving fans hangups. Maybe it had to do with the way the story ended, maybe it's the weird obsession with canonization that existed before that, I dunno. It's fine (fun, even!) to discuss ways the universes could or should be connected, but saying that all these poorly interpreted phrases and terms are "evidence" and that the universes "will" be connected is getting pretty old. It's trying really hard to be its own thing, and I feel bad that people won't let it.

I actually didn't notice the flying creatures until you guys pointed them out. Maybe they're just bats put there for extra spokyness?

That's "Skull Bats" to you, sir.

[Shakar]

Does anyone know why Skull Slicer's gearbox is built the way it is? it should be symmetrical, there's no reason for it to not be that way, yet one side uses a completely different different type of gears. Is it a friction issue or is just to give Slicer a more "random", cobbled together look?

Also, it occured to me that we still have no idea at all whom or what the statues on "Po-Okoto" represent. They look nothing like any Summer set. They don't have the Skull Folks' bony motif either. 2016 baddies? MNOG did heavily hint at the Bohrok (if not outright showed them IIRC)...

That's "Skull Bats" to you, sir.

Oooh how I wish you were right.

[Dorek]

Also, it occured to me that we still have no idea at all whom or what the statues on "Po-Okoto" represent. They look nothing like any Summer set. They don't have the Skull Folks' bony motif either. 2016 baddies? MNOG did heavily hint at the Bohrok (if not outright showed them IIRC)...

>unexplained statue in the Get The Mask comics

"humans in bionicle? rabblerabblerabble"

>unexplained statue in the online animations

"Vorox rehashes in bionicle? yaaaaay"

No but seriously I'm willing to bet it's just something stylized, there for fun. Or maybe it's what one of the Skull peoples used to look like before, y'know, dying? Likely we'll have to draw our own conclusions, if there are any to be drawn. Although my headcanon is now Skull Warrior's original form.

[Ikaatril]

It's not to be random and there is a reason if you watch the gear function video someone posted of it in here recently. It's to make sure the arms go in their intended directions. If it was symmetrical, considering the construction of the non-gear parts of the gearbox, the function wouldn't work at all - the gears would be conflicting with each other. The gears are different sizes on one side to avoid said conflict. And, if that vid was any indication, his function works very well because of it.

[MakutaOfWar]

Is tommorow the day when North America is able to order the trans-Mask of Fire(Hau)? :3

[dviddy]

Thats the thing though, the lack of a straight answer, if they were trying to explain that certain elements were being re-used then they could have said that. If we were getting a new Mask Of Time that didnt have any connection to the old then i'm confused as to why they would know certain details and forget the rest... for example, rather than stating 'Remember in Legends Of Metru Nui when Vakama made the Vahi?'. I mean, its something a representative from Lego was told to tell people, so how would telling them that answer their question as to whether G2 is connected to G1, personally it just allows for wiggle room in the future.

If his answer to whether their would be a connection is refrencing a prior movie with a prior Mask Of Time, then that causes confusion. Whether his statement implies we are getting a new mask of time, a new vahi, a full version of the vahi (combined with the original) is up for debate because of the openess. Once again, it doesnt really specify an answer to whether the stories are connected either, all his answer tells us is that their will be a Mask Of Time and it will be a full mask.

He gave a straight answer, and it's only the fanbase's frustrating and dooming interest in "unpacking every statement for canon and theories and hidden meanings" that keeps this dumb rumour going. The fanbase, thanks to all the interactions with Greg back during the original run, are used to looking at and analyzing every piece of information for hidden meanings and speculation and theories based on every spare word Greg did or didn't add into his response.

He was asked if the series had a connection, and he gave an answer with an example. That's not vague or ambiguous, that's him attempting to explain the answer whilst also providing some sort of evidence to understand the answer. Clearly it didn't work, because clearly Jordan Paxton did not understand the way the fanbase works, especially fanatical arms like the TTV overhype-mill.

The answer that there will be a mask of time and it will be a full mask was exactly the answer he was trying to give. "The old series had a mask of time, OURS DOES TOO, but it's DIFFERENT."

It really doesn't allow room for the ambiguity you (and the other TTV fans) are forcing into it.

Actually, it does have bearing in reality and speculative discussion. As you specified the exact qoute he said implies that the new mask is a full mask. Their are many possible ways that the Vahi could be connected to this full mask, given his statement is also intended to be in response to the stories being connected.

E.g. what if the G2 mask of time was the original mask that is split in half later on forming the Vahi and another mask OR if this G2 mask is the Vahi combined with a second half that was not introduced prior.

It has no bearing in reality because it has no bearing in anything he said or even implied. It comes from members of the TTV fanbase misinterpreting the misinterpretation TTV gave on their channel and forum. They said "we're getting the other half" which led to all this "OMG the Vahi was incomplete??! We're going to see the top half?!? I bet it connects to a fifteen year old part that hasn't been produced or available in ten plus years!?!?" That's dumb. I'm sorry to be so blunt about it, but there's not a fluffier way to say that. It has no bearing in any sort of reality we live in, and since these masks don't have real powers, no universe we can hop into either. He was not answering a question about canon- he was answering a question about marketing, because his job is marketing. His response is about the series having connections from a marketing standpoint (ie: various shared names and characters, tropes, sort of locations, masks, visual cues, a mask of time, etc). Of course they're connected, they're both BIONICLE, from LEGO. You're forcing the canon connection into a place it didn't exist.

The latter half of your quote in this box has no bearing in conversation outside of the "what if.." fanon realms.

If it was as simple as that then we would have had that explanation, a simple yes or no answer from the Lego representative, instead a Lego group representative was advised to tell people to remember Legends Of Metru Nui and purposefully bring that up in their mind when asked if it was connected to the old universe. Their are easy ways of telling fans that its not connected or that it is.

Its not that the fans are sheltered, far from it, its that people actually realise that a reboot doesnt mean completely discarding elements nowadays. The word 'Reboot' no longer is as simple as it used to be as we have semi-reboots, re-invisionings, quasi-reboots, solid reboots and more.

We got a simple answer from the BIONICLE team members at the panel, all of whom rank higher up on the totem poll within the BIONICLE structure than Jordan. The art director, story director, set director, and the employee in charge of constraction brands entirely were all at that panel. They said near verbatim: "you can stop the speculation and discussion, it's a reboot". What speculation and discussion could they possibly be talking about? Probably the one about whether or not the new story was connected or not to the old one. The answer is "it's a reboot" which is a simple and unambiguous term when not qualified with a "soft" or "near" prefix. The general public is very aware of what "reboot" means, it's only this fandom that seems to have an issue understanding the simple terminology. They did not qualify the term "reboot" and thus it's a pure term. Language!

BIONICLE 2015 is obviously not discarding prior elements since the very Toa themselves share the names and near-personalities of the original six, the shapes of many of the masks, Makuta's name, etc. To claim otherwise is not a claim anyone here (or anywhere) has made or will make. That would also be dumb. But sharing elements (which is sort of the bedrock of a reboot, actually) is not the same thing as sharing canon, and the team (and Greg) made that very clear.

The fandom itself has tried to create this ambiguity out of a desperation for a connection to an outdated, bloated, dead storyline that proved the downfall of the original line. I don't know why either (as much as I enjoyed the line all the way through, and I did), but this desperate attempt is getting tired and old and frustrating, and it's sort of ruining the community's ability to enjoy the new line on its own merits. What is that statue?? We don't need an answer to everything, sometimes scenery is just scenery.

As for what kind of reboot Bionicle is this time around only time will tell, but for the moment it is not concrete that this is a solid reboot so i dont see why that is the only option that you gravitate to at the moment, while their is the possibility that you are correct and it is simply just taking old elements, a lot of things dont really add-up

Frankly, they don't add up because you won't let them. There are obvious answers to every single comment in these ongoing vahi discussions you've brought up, over and over, that answer and satisfy every inane theory the TTV-side of the fandom trots out. I was there. I was behind the scenes talking about this line for a long time before the panel. I knew it was a full-on reboot back in July. The team specifically said they were pulling parts and ideas from 2001-2003 because those were the most profitable, and also the years that the team felt truly defined the original run and mythos (which probably explains why so many latter-year fans seem upset about the more ambiguous storytelling of the reboot, where fans from the first few years are enjoying it immensely). Specifically saying they were cherrypicking ideas and storytelling moments from those years doesn't seem like something you'd do if you intended to somehow connect your story back to that.

[Dorek]

Is tommorow the day when North America is able to order the trans-Mask of Fire(Hau)? :3

Yes! Or you can go in stores. I'll probably be making an in-store purchase to avoid those silly S&H fees, but I never like going on day 1 because I'm always worried they'll have forgotten to start the promotion and I'll have to go back in again, which is a pain in the butt.

[Phoenix_Flare]

Hey sorry to break up the "Vahi Talk" but I recently found this: Just type in ICE as the Club Code

WOW! This is the Second one that I found! LOL

Edited March 1, 2015 by Phoenix_Flare

[Dorek]

Hey sorry to break up the "Vahi Talk" but I recently found this: Just type in ICE as the Club Code

Aha! So they ARE pulling out more. Good to know...

[MakutaOfWar]

Yes! Or you can go in stores. I'll probably be making an in-store purchase to avoid those silly S&H fees, but I never like going on day 1 because I'm always worried they'll have forgotten to start the promotion and I'll have to go back in again, which is a pain in the butt.

Thanks! And sadly their closest store is like fifty miles from where I live. -.- Looks like it's S@H for me. :P

[Phoenix_Flare]

Aha! So they ARE pulling out more. Good to know...

I actually like this one better than Tahu's, which is a shame because Tahu is my favorite.

[Dorek]

Thanks! And sadly their closest store is like fifty miles from where I live. -.- Looks like it's S@H for me. :P

Haha, yeah, I'm lucky enough to live pretty close to one (even closer since I moved, it's a 10 minute jaunt away). But mall parking is mall parking, and ain't nobody got time for that.

I actually like this one better than Tahu's, which is a shame because Tahu is my favorite.

I liked Tahu's more after seeing this battle pose, but this Ice one is even better. Wings! Who knew?

[Phoenix_Flare]

I liked Tahu's more after seeing this battle pose, but this Ice one is even better. Wings! Who knew?

Dang, that is pretty cool... Also I've noticed that BS01 Got an update to! Awesome!

[Mandate]

If people want to discuss something then they bring it up, people brought up the Vahi and started a discussion, if you dont want to be part of that discussion then simply start another topic of discussion. I dont particularly desire to talk about the Vahi either, but it was the topic at hand.

It's just that it never ends well for anyone. The argument never goes anywhere meaningful, or closer to fully establishing exactly what happened because it was never documented on video or audio and we only have eyewitness accounts. Both sides just get further entrenched in their own beliefs on the subject, and it gets ridiculous. Case in point on ridiculous: Vader's massive wall of text a few posts up. Not the post itself, but the amount of writing he has to do every time someone brings up the Vahi.

Does anyone know why Skull Slicer's gearbox is built the way it is? it should be symmetrical, there's no reason for it to not be that way, yet one side uses a completely different different type of gears. Is it a friction issue or is just to give Slicer a more "random", cobbled together look?

It's to provide variation on the swing speeds. Larger gears allow for different speeds, etc. Makes for a more natural look in "combat"

Also, it occured to me that we still have no idea at all whom or what the statues on "Po-Okoto" represent. They look nothing like any Summer set. They don't have the Skull Folks' bony motif either. 2016 baddies? MNOG did heavily hint at the Bohrok (if not outright showed them IIRC)...

Maybe next year we'll find out. This year sadly doesn't seem to be focusing on the cultural aspect of Okoto. Maybe if the line is successful enough we'll see another (wishful thinking) 20 episode series by the end of the year focusing on the Protectors' duties/roles and other things. It would be an opportunity to make the Spiders actually menacing, and allow us to see what life on Okoto is like. It wouldn't be too hard, actually. As long as it was set either before the events of the current episodes or after they retake the city (assuming they do so this year), I don't think there would be a lot of trouble and it could also give a satisfying build up to next year's villain, like MNOG did.

[Nekchir]

I'm not gonna quote your wall of text Vader, but you can't blame TTV and their fans for creating all these crack-pot theories when TTV themselves put up SEVERAL videos explaining that whole false 'Mask of Time' connection amongst other things. Your grudge against them is so blatantly obvious it's hilarious.

Edited March 1, 2015 by MonkeyChud

[Vinyl Scratch]

Hold on, what statues are you guys talking about? I'm out of the loop outside the animations and sets.

[Dorek]

Hold on, what statues are you guys talking about? I'm out of the loop outside the animations and sets.

The ones seen here, near Pohatu's Golden Mask of Stone. (sorry, best pic I could find, but you can see it pretty well)

Unrelated, but how long have these wallpapers been up on BIONICLE.com? There's some neat ones there.

[Vinyl Scratch]

The ones seen here, near Pohatu's Golden Mask of Stone. (sorry, best pic I could find, but you can see it pretty well)

Is that thing a tail or is it part of the blade? Really interesting design, would like to see a set of it in the future.

[Alexander The Great]

It isn't a great function but it's still a pretty nice one.
Additional photos are here.
And here and here for Slicer and Ekimu.

[Mandate]

It isn't a great function but it's still a pretty nice one.

Additional photos are here.

And here and here for Slicer and Ekimu.

SKULL SCORPIO BATS! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!

Jokes aside, that's pretty neat. While LOSS' function is most certainly more secure, it's going to be interesting to see how that works out for the set. And hopefully an army of them in the plot.

Where is everyone getting the trans-blue stud gun piece from?

[Phoenix_Flare]

It isn't a great function but it's still a pretty nice one.

Additional photos are here.

And here and here for Slicer and Ekimu.

This video alone confirms my love for Scorpio (A.K.A: Scorpy-Scor) MMMMmmmmm, Functions :drool: :drool:. Forget 5 Skull Wariors, I want 5 Scrpios... Maybe. IDK