Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Starrocks923]

LEGO just keeps on leaking on the Youtube channel. I don't see why LEGO allows this, unless it's a marketing stunt to raise hype.

[ToaDraco]

LEGO just keeps on leaking on the Youtube channel. I don't see why LEGO allows this, unless it's a marketing stunt to raise hype.

I sincerely doubt that's the case. The web team has demonstrated incompetence in how they have handled content this year. It's sad really.

On a different note, I sincerely hope we get more story in the winter wave. Hopefully we get more than 9 more animations and the book isn't a disappointment.

[Dorek]

Compared to, say, Hero Factory, I'm personally more okay with a slow burn winter wave. Hero Factory frontloaded all of its story and such, but BIONICLE has usually saved the big guns for the summer.

Think 2007; even in the story media we actually got, next to nothing happened, but then the Toa Mahri arrived and everything went bananas.

[The Outsider]

On a different note, I sincerely hope we get more story in the winter wave. Hopefully we get more than 9 more animations and the book isn't a disappointment.

Compared to, say, Hero Factory, I'm personally more okay with a slow burn winter wave. Hero Factory frontloaded all of its story and such, but BIONICLE has usually saved the big guns for the summer.

Think 2007; even in the story media we actually got, next to nothing happened, but then the Toa Mahri arrived and everything went bananas.

I hope that's what happens, because so far the pacing has been awful! And the voice acting doesn't help: the only good ones are Tahu and Pohatu; Onua (now I hear the "dumb brute" tone) and Kopaka are not bad but unremarkable, and Lewa and Gali are rubbish.

That being said, the Toa fighting together redeemed the new episode for me. But it felt a bit anticlimatic that the LOSS only stood there and deflected their attacks; couldn't he try to strike them once or something? Ohterwise he feels less like a villain and more like a neutral guardian like G1's Umbra.

On a sidenote: what about Ekimu's gold-and-blue Protector mask? Do you think it is merely cerimonial, or that it has some sort of power? (please not Protector Mask of Creation, please not Protector Mask of Creation!)

Edited March 24, 2015 by The Outsider

[Kalhiki]

On a sidenote: what about Ekimu's gold-and-blue Protector mask? Do you think it is merely cerimonial, or that it has some sort of power? (please not Protector Mask of Creation, please not Protector Mask of Creation!)

I enjoyed some people's speculation that it's a sort of "life support system" so his body doesn't rot away over the years.

[Clone 01354 Productions]

But it felt a bit anticlimatic that the LOSS only stood there and deflected their attacks; couldn't he try to strike them once or something? Ohterwise he feels less like a villain and more like a neutral guardian like G1's Umbra.

LOSS is just guarding the Ancient City, so he's not really "required" to attack people unless they try to get in. That's how I view it, at least.

So one more episode, and then no story developments until August? Oh no......It's okay, the summer episodes will probably leak next week.

[dviddy]

The pacing comments seem weird to me. In the first series, outside of the (spectacular) MNOG, we got a comic a month or so, that was pretty much the equal to these animations (in that so little happens or a lot happens in a short span), with colouring issues, misplaced word bubbles, etc. In the latter half to two-thirds we had books, but we'll have books later this year too. (And a graphic novel, apparently?) this really doesn't seem different to what we had then, in that all of the story seems to happen at once and then we wait. The difference seems to be that in the first series we had Greg actively answering questions on BZP and that helped keep interest moving, but whether that was, in the long run, a good or a bad thing has long been debated.

[MakutaOfWar]

Here's a thought; what if they use the prototype MoCR as the MoUP? Or maybe it already is...

[mysteriouspi]

Here's a thought; what if they use the prototype MoCR as the MoUP? Or maybe it already is...

I don't see it. The prototype MoCr has none of the aesthetics we've seen the masks have so far. And it looks enough like a prototype that I don't think they'd decide to make it a final design. Especially with that mouth hole.

[Mandate]

The pacing comments seem weird to me. In the first series, outside of the (spectacular) MNOG, we got a comic a month or so, that was pretty much the equal to these animations (in that so little happens or a lot happens in a short span), with colouring issues, misplaced word bubbles, etc. In the latter half to two-thirds we had books, but we'll have books later this year too. (And a graphic novel, apparently?) this really doesn't seem different to what we had then, in that all of the story seems to happen at once and then we wait. The difference seems to be that in the first series we had Greg actively answering questions on BZP and that helped keep interest moving, but whether that was, in the long run, a good or a bad thing has long been debated.

We're in March and already we have the entirety of the main Winter plot over and done with. There's still episode 9 to go, which is mostly exposition/fluff, and that's the problem. We've gotten the entirety of the story in to brief a period of time, and now the BIONICLE community is going to go crazy because there's nothing to discuss. Even with the pointless stuff filling up the comics (Rahkshi Kaita), there was still something to look forward to. We haven't even gotten news on the 7 Rings "Golden Masks of Power" since NYC comic con.

For a story-based line such as BIONICLE, a slow burn-type story is better than an immediate load of plot like HF had.

[dviddy]

We're in March and already we have the entirety of the main Winter plot over and done with. There's still episode 9 to go, which is mostly exposition/fluff, and that's the problem. We've gotten the entirety of the story in to brief a period of time, and now the BIONICLE community is going to go crazy because there's nothing to discuss. Even with the pointless stuff filling up the comics (Rahkshi Kaita), there was still something to look forward to. We haven't even gotten news on the 7 Rings "Golden Masks of Power" since NYC comic con.

For a story-based line such as BIONICLE, a slow burn-type story is better than an immediate load of plot like HF had.

But with the exception of a (tiny compared to industry-standard comics) comic every month or so, what did most years of BIONICLE do differently than this? We didn't even have books the first two years. And even then, we got a book quarterly, and the books were superfluous to the plot for most casual fans, telling in more detail the story beats we already knew at wave-launch. I would love another MNOG, but I don't think fans are remembering the original line's run as well as they think. Story beats didn't happen much slower than they are now.

[Mandate]

But with the exception of a (tiny compared to industry-standard comics) comic every month or so, what did most years of BIONICLE do differently than this? We didn't even have books the first two years. And even then, we got a book quarterly, and the books were superfluous to the plot for most casual fans, telling in more detail the story beats we already knew at wave-launch. I would love another MNOG, but I don't think fans are remembering the original line's run as well as they think. Story beats didn't happen much slower than they are now.

In 2001 MNOG had updates each month, and the comics were every two months. We've already had 7 episodes officially published on the LEGO website, and 8 available to view. We still have three months to go at minimum until we get the Summer arc's beginning, no game updates in sight, no comics/similar media to be released in this year, and only one book which is to be released in August.

That's a pitiful release schedule, and the book is likely just going to retell the Winter arc in more detail. But even so, if you still want to debate Gen 1, there is also the question of modern-day LEGO. NINJAGO was able to spread 26 episodes over the course of a year with some (short) books (bi-weekly, although the schedule varied), and Chima had 41 episodes in two years and books in the first year. Just last year NINJAGO had 8 20 minute episodes, a video game, multiple graphic novels and a book or two.

But of course, NINJAGO had all that after it was a better seller than BIONICLE was in 2001, but even in NINJAGO's first year it had a 40-minute long pilot "season" with [at least] 8 well-respected voice actors, four books (with six special edition variants) and a small series of graphic novels. Awesome character artwork was abundant, and every single location in the pilot was given a detailed explanation in a Lore section with details on species, environment and dangers. There was even a NINJAGO-based spin off of LEGO Battles. It also had six minisodes (all of which were longer than BIONICLE's current ones) and a song that still represents the series in some form today. Heck, it even had its own Youtube channel.

BIONICLE's reboot undeniably pales in comparison to that kind of media coverage, and it's even funnier considering most of NINJAGO's stuff came out on day 1. BIONICLE is using an awkward mix of "big explosion" and "slow burn" thrown in with a seemingly small media budget.

[Dorek]

In 2001 MNOG had updates each month, and the comics were every two months. We've already had 7 episodes officially published on the LEGO website, and 8 available to view. We still have three months to go at minimum until we get the Summer arc's beginning, no game updates in sight, no comics/similar media to be released in this year, and only one book which is to be released in August.

That's a pitiful release schedule, and the book is likely just going to retell the Winter arc in more detail. But even so, if you still want to debate Gen 1, there is also the question of modern-day LEGO. NINJAGO was able to spread 26 episodes over the course of a year with some (short) books (bi-weekly, although the schedule varied), and Chima had 41 episodes in two years and books in the first year. Just last year NINJAGO had 8 20 minute episodes, a video game, multiple graphic novels and a book or two.

But of course, NINJAGO had all that after it was a better seller than BIONICLE was in 2001, but even in NINJAGO's first year it had a 40-minute long pilot "season" with [at least] 8 well-respected voice actors, four books (with six special edition variants) and a small series of graphic novels. Awesome character artwork was abundant, and every single location in the pilot was given a detailed explanation in a Lore section with details on species, environment and dangers. There was even a NINJAGO-based spin off of LEGO Battles. It also had six minisodes (all of which were longer than BIONICLE's current ones) and a song that still represents the series in some form today. Heck, it even had its own Youtube channel.

BIONICLE's reboot undeniably pales in comparison to that kind of media coverage, and it's even funnier considering most of NINJAGO's stuff came out on day 1. BIONICLE is using an awkward mix of "big explosion" and "slow burn" thrown in with a seemingly small media budget.

There's a difference in quantity of media vs the quality. The story beats that we've had are relatively on par, despite having been told through "less" media overall. Not to mention that for three months we've actually had a fair bit of stuff to digest as it is; bizarre release/leaking schedule aside, we've had a series of webisodes, assorted magazine inserts and LEGO club articles, and a detailed (if not always organized) website that updates fairly regularly, as well as various other bits and pieces.

Just because we don't know about what's upcoming doesn't mean it isn't going to come; for every future thing we have heard about (don't even get me started on how entitled people get when they hear about leaks), there's something we've gotten that nobody knew about as well.

The past three months have been solid, and I'm confident that even with the occasional lull, there's still going to be plenty of stuff to digest and talk about. It's not like it'll be radio silence from episode 9 to the summer (and if it is, THEN you can criticize LEGO's poor media campaign, rather than preemptively condemning it).

[Mandate]

There's a difference in quantity of media vs the quality. The story beats that we've had are relatively on par, despite having been told through "less" media overall. Not to mention that for three months we've actually had a fair bit of stuff to digest as it is; bizarre release/leaking schedule aside, we've had a series of webisodes, assorted magazine inserts and LEGO club articles, and a detailed (if not always organized) website that updates fairly regularly, as well as various other bits and pieces.

That's very subjective. Anyone can determine the quality of the episodes themselves, and it will differ from one person to another. Nearly every LEGO line receives club articles and magazine inserts, and as for "detail" (I'm not sure what you mean, do you mean detail in character bios or as in design?) that can be very subjective as well, relatively speaking. Website updates, aside from official release of the minisodes and PC version of Mask of Creation, have for the most part not carried anything that sparks a lot of discussion among the community.

Just because we don't know about what's upcoming doesn't mean it isn't going to come; for every future thing we have heard about (don't even get me started on how entitled people get when they hear about leaks), there's something we've gotten that nobody knew about as well.

The past three months have been solid, and I'm confident that even with the occasional lull, there's still going to be plenty of stuff to digest and talk about. It's not like it'll be radio silence from episode 9 to the summer (and if it is, THEN you can criticize LEGO's poor media campaign, rather than preemptively condemning it).

There's already complaints among certain areas of the community that there's been a "drought", so to speak. We have three months to go, and all we have to expect is official release of episodes 8 and 9 in April. If LEGO is planning something big enough that would spark long and meaningful talk amongst fans, it would have likely been announced by this point. The only thing I can realistically see LEGO potentially doing is another "Battle for the Golden Mask"-type competition.

My original point still remains, what we know about the first year of the BIONICLE reboot's major media coverage (approx. 30 minutes of screen time, an activity book and a story book, one competition) is that it's very little in comparison to what other lines have received in the past.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Mandate

[Scarilian]

Only issue i have with the pacing is that due to the leaks we have seen the Winter Storyline, and the Summer storyline will probably be covered in the books that are released in August (barely a month after the sets are released) so chances are we'll have read the Summer storyline before the full 9 or 10 Summer animations are uploaded...

Though i do feel we need something more than the animations to keep us occupied as fans, potentially a game of some kind online similar to MNOG in that it develops the mythos while also being a fun game.

LEGO just keeps on leaking on the Youtube channel. I don't see why LEGO allows this, unless it's a marketing stunt to raise hype.

The big leak was likely due to the way Youtube uploading works, it defaults the videos to public so chances are someone uploaded them all in a bunch and that caused them to instantly become public when they had finished uploading. Less a technical error on Lego's side and more that someone just forgot to switch from public to private before uploading. I'd guess the original intention was to release an episode every 2-3 weeks starting in January however the leaks disrupted that at the time and threw the schedule out of wack.

There's already complaints among certain areas of the community that there's been a "drought", so to speak. We have three months to go, and all we have to expect is official release of episodes 8 and 9 in April. If LEGO is planning something big enough that would spark long and meaningful talk amongst fans, it would have likely been announced by this point. The only thing I can realistically see LEGO potentially doing is another "Battle for the Golden Mask"-type competition.

My original point still remains, what we know about the first year of the BIONICLE reboot's major media coverage (approx. 30 minutes of screen time, an activity book and a story book, one competition) is that it's very little in comparison to what other lines have received in the past.

Yeah, i can understand the feeling of a drought, though that seems to be entirely caused by the episodes all being released. I believe if it had'nt been leaked then people would have been fine waiting 2-3 week gaps between the animations. The issue Lego have found themselves in is that several locations have had the episodes all released, so they have nothing to give them now to keep them satisfied. So the choice remained as to whether to release all the episodes in english and suffer the same problem OR try and stick to the original schedule despite the leaks. They have chosen the second option, which i suppose is better as it does give us something to look forward to even if we've seen them already it'd help having a language we can understand.

As for the competition idea you mentioned, they still have the 6 golden Toa masks which i guess would be given out this year (given we might recieve updated toa next year)

You do raise a good point about the lack of coverage, i would'nt be entirely suprised if the first year of Bionicle's return blew most of its money early on with promotional events such as NYCC or other big events happening over the year. The message being mostly to get Bionicle sets out their and focus on selling the toys before they develop the story too much, which i theorise is another reason why the story is so condensed this year, so that it can get new fans next year without them having to bother with the 2015 storyline much.

Story beats didn't happen much slower than they are now.

While i agree with you, i would like to point out one of the reasons fans were expecting a quicker story pace. Lego spent each year of Bionicle developing their media and promotions in order to target people more effectively. In this case while granted the current marketting mirors the original first years of Bionicle, people are hoping for marketting more like the later years because Lego was updating the marketting to be better each year and moving back to the original slow story beats was something that Lego strayed away from in the past, so not sure why they've went back to that now with Bionicle. Just seems odd to me why they went back to the basic formula that they'd already spent years improving on.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Scarilian

[Logan McOwen]

Seems Lego are really trying to push Bionicle!

I wanna join in ;-;

[Kalhiki]

Seems Lego are really trying to push Bionicle!

I wanna join in ;-;

Augh! Why didn't I know about this? I live in the St. Louis area and completely missed out.

I'm going to go cry in a corner now...

[Mesonak]

BIONICLE is using an awkward mix of "big explosion" and "slow burn" thrown in with a seemingly small media budget.

That's a really nice and concise way of describing things, actually.

WITH THAT BEING SAID, I agree with DV that older BIONICLE wasn't always great in this regard either.

[Dorek]

That's very subjective. Anyone can determine the quality of the episodes themselves, and it will differ from one person to another. Nearly every LEGO line receives club articles and magazine inserts, and as for "detail" (I'm not sure what you mean, do you mean detail in character bios or as in design?) that can be very subjective as well, relatively speaking. Website updates, aside from official release of the minisodes and PC version of Mask of Creation, have for the most part not carried anything that sparks a lot of discussion among the community.

There's a difference between the actual quality of something and someone's opinion of said quality; you're focusing almost exclusively on the latter and conflating it with the former. Not to mention in the case of having "sparked discussion" that's pretty much just wrong. Granted, I don't have page statistics for here or elsewhere, but this topic alone has carried us through over 500 pages of discussion.

There's already complaints among certain areas of the community that there's been a "drought", so to speak.

Because we all know the community is both accurate and non-fickle every time ;)

If LEGO is planning something big enough that would spark long and meaningful talk amongst fans, it would have likely been announced by this point.

Would it have? Just because we've exhausted one internal (leaked!) document doesn't mean we know everything that's going to happen. This is the sort of entitlement I was referring to; because we were privy to some secrets that we weren't supposed to know suddenly makes us knowledgeable about everything.

While i agree with you, i would like to point out one of the reasons fans were expecting a quicker story pace. Lego spent each year of Bionicle developing their media and promotions in order to target people more effectively. In this case while granted the current marketting mirors the original first years of Bionicle, people are hoping for marketting more like the later years because Lego was updating the marketting to be better each year and moving back to the original slow story beats was something that Lego strayed away from in the past, so not sure why they've went back to that now with Bionicle. Just seems odd to me why they went back to the basic formula that they'd already spent years improving on.

Well, given LEGO's comments about how they wanted to emulate the style of the early years, this doesn't really surprise me; I mean, really what we're all talking about is a lack of serials (that not even Hero Factory got, mind you!). While I was a big fan of these serials, they also often unnecessarily convoluted the plot, introduced characters that had no relevance/point without sets, and could otherwise be unfocused. Going back to that was never in the agenda, and, to me, it's weird that people keep expecting it.

[Walter Kovacs]

Augh! Why didn't I know about this? I live in the St. Louis area and completely missed out.

I'm going to go cry in a corner now...

Sorry you missed it. I was there with both of my kids, and we had a blast. We got a few freebie polybag sets as well.

The Bionicle area was pretty cool. It looked to me like all of the parts were from the six Protector sets.

[Clone 01354 Productions]

We got a few freebie polybag sets as well.

Was it a new polybag, different from the Trans-Mask of Fire?!?

[Scarilian]

Well, given LEGO's comments about how they wanted to emulate the style of the early years, this doesn't really surprise me; I mean, really what we're all talking about is a lack of serials (that not even Hero Factory got, mind you!). While I was a big fan of these serials, they also often unnecessarily convoluted the plot, introduced characters that had no relevance/point without sets, and could otherwise be unfocused. Going back to that was never in the agenda, and, to me, it's weird that people keep expecting it.

Yeah, i can understand going back to the roots in terms of how complex the story is, but we could have multiple ways to tell the same story on the site. We had the Bionicle comics a while back and having them uploaded to the Bionicle site would at the very least be something. Even if its not particularly adding to the story we need something more than 9 animations spread out over the course of what was likely intended to be spread out over over half a year. Even if it isnt particularly like a main story element, giving us more to do on the site to keep fans returning would help. Just something more than just the animated episodes would be nice :3

Bionicle comic;

http://40.media.tumblr.com/9185c44c3f5f4c6ca4e03ede8f32e3c0/tumblr_ni31xjwdO61s78ze0o4_1280.jpg

[Phoenix_Flare]

Bionicle comic;

http://40.media.tumb...8ze0o4_1280.jpg

*looks at Lewa* Well... Easter IS coming up, so here's "hopping" that he'll get me some Bonkles in my basket. I can't wait to get into the "swing" of things. Hahaha.... yeah.

BTW, Eljay, I beat you to it.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Phoenix_Flare

[Mandate]

As for the competition idea you mentioned, they still have the 6 golden Toa masks which i guess would be given out this year (given we might recieve updated toa next year)

Actually seven masks are left, but sadly we don't know if they will even be used in a competition. If I recall correctly, 32 solid gold Haus were made and only 5 were given away to the public, apparently the rest are in the hands of LEGO employees.

There's a difference between the actual quality of something and someone's opinion of said quality; you're focusing almost exclusively on the latter and conflating it with the former. Not to mention in the case of having "sparked discussion" that's pretty much just wrong. Granted, I don't have page statistics for here or elsewhere, but this topic alone has carried us through over 500 pages of discussion.

So then exactly what are you saying? How can you compare the quality of one story to another? It rests in opinion and personal view of the quality. I find the art style of the minisodes very high-quality, for the most part. The voice-acting, not so much. And in NINJAGO, I find the art style of its pilot to be very high-quality, for the most part. And the voice-acting was very good as well.

People will debate quality. Some people hate, dislike, or are annoyed by the narrator voicing everyone and find it as a sign of less quality than had there been multiple actors. Others find it of very high quality that we have a man who can distinctively voice at least eight different characters. Some find the writing to be high-quality, others find it "kiddy" or cliched, even poorly planned while others enjoy it. "Quality" visual media such as this is subjective, it's not as simple as a comparison between BBS and CCBS sockets where one is undeniably, and objectively better than the other.

While I'm comparing total screentime you're comparing a series of short, concise webisodes designed to get to the point of the story with minimal fluff. Have they succeeded? Absolutely. NINJAGO's original storytelling, however, was designed to be a 40-minute long TV special that can and has been divided into 1, 2 and even 4 parts. Comparisons of "quality" don't really work in this scenario because you can't chop a 40-minute special into 25 parts and expect it to work, and you can't glue each minisode back-to-back and expect it to work as well as it does in separate parts.

But that's just a comparison between the two main forms of media the story was told in. There was far more content NINJAGO was given, including the most expansive released world in LEGO Universe with more worlds planned for the 2011 arc. There were graphic novels, books, even a Brickmaster kit.

Because we all know the community is both accurate and non-fickle every time ;)

Which is a statement that discredits your own words.

Would it have? Just because we've exhausted one internal (leaked!) document doesn't mean we know everything that's going to happen. This is the sort of entitlement I was referring to; because we were privy to some secrets that we weren't supposed to know suddenly makes us knowledgeable about everything.

Hence why I exclude episode 8 and 9 from whenever I state "official" releases. Assuming their release is next month, that still leaves two months of secrecy. I'm not sure if you were referring to the minisodes as "leaked documents" or if there's something I'm not aware of going on, but unless there will be a new competition or a spin-off series telling the tales of the Protectors, is there really anything huge to expect? There's obviously going to be new stuff during those two months, like extra wallpapers or possibly even a exclusive Toys R Us set revealed. But the fact of the matter is, we don't have any reason to actually expect anything to happen. Can it happen? Yes. Will it happen? To be determined.

[Dorek]

So then exactly what are you saying? How can you compare the quality of one story to another? It rests in opinion and personal view of the quality. I find the art style of the minisodes very high-quality, for the most part. The voice-acting, not so much. And in NINJAGO, I find the art style of its pilot to be very high-quality, for the most part. And the voice-acting was very good as well.

I'm saying there's a difference between "I didn't like this episode" and "BIONICLE has had poor content thus far". Subjectively, you might not have liked what came out, but objectively, there has been content of quality.

Either way, this is still a discussion, so you can't say it hasn't sparked conversation :U

Which is a statement that discredits your own words.

I wasn't making any particular judgment call on the quality, though; just an oh so witty observation on how things the (vocal minority of the) fanbase feels aren't always indicative of what's really going on. I think (personal opinion!) that people who have been saying there's a "drought" aren't really paying attention, or are otherwise spoiled by leaked info and feel entitled to more.

Hence why I exclude episode 8 and 9 from whenever I state "official" releases. Assuming their release is next month, that still leaves two months of secrecy. I'm not sure if you were referring to the minisodes as "leaked documents" or if there's something I'm not aware of going on, but unless there will be a new competition or a spin-off series telling the tales of the Protectors, is there really anything huge to expect? There's obviously going to be new stuff during those two months, like extra wallpapers or possibly even a exclusive Toys R Us set revealed. But the fact of the matter is, we don't have any reason to actually expect anything to happen.

I was referring to the leaked internal document that revealed the GWP for this month and (I think) the books as well, though it made no mention of the graphic novels, for instance.

Can it happen? Yes. Will it happen? To be determined.

Both of which are a far cry from "it won't happen because I have been to the top of the mountain and seen all there is to see you will worship me as though I were a god".

RVB reference aside, I think that not knowing what to expect doesn't automatically feed into expecting nothing, so I don't quite understand the pessimism.