Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Mandate]

What I'd like to know is why do we go crazy with every ccbs recolor we get? If TLG is more financially successful then ever why are they giving us so little compared to Gen 1? I think it's pretty sad, the sets are amazing don't think I don't think so but why don't we get unique bone colors like we did, or giving us more non-metalic armor? We used to get that kind of stuff all of the time, even in 2001, look how diverse things were then yet TLG was about to go bankrupt?

The amount of diversity introduced was actually a key influence in LEGO's near-bankruptcy, hence why LEGO tends to avoid that now. There are times when LEGO introduces a massive amount of pieces into a single new color (Chima lion stuff, NINJAGO's ghost stuff, etc), but sadly I doubt we'll ever see as huge amount of diversity from BIONICLE's heyday introduced again without a "good reason" for it.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Mandate

[Leewan]

What I'd like to know is why do we go crazy with every ccbs recolor we get? If TLG is more financially successful then ever why are they giving us so little compared to Gen 1? I think it's pretty sad, the sets are amazing don't think I don't think so but why don't we get unique bone colors like we did, or giving us more non-metalic armor? We used to get that kind of stuff all of the time, even in 2001, look how diverse things were then yet TLG was about to go bankrupt?

Because kids love two colors :

-Red

-Gold

But I don't think they give us "so little", we have plenty recolors this year (the #4 armour in keetorange, bright green, purple and dark orange, and the glorious trans-purple bones, for example), and lots of new parts.

And some parts in G1 were über-common, like the dark bley medium double connector.

[mysteriouspi]

What I'd like to know is why do we go crazy with every ccbs recolor we get? If TLG is more financially successful then ever why are they giving us so little compared to Gen 1? I think it's pretty sad, the sets are amazing don't think I don't think so but why don't we get unique bone colors like we did, or giving us more non-metalic armor? We used to get that kind of stuff all of the time, even in 2001, look how diverse things were then yet TLG was about to go bankrupt?

My impression of TLG in 2001-2003(ish) is that they were throwing money all over Bionicle (and some other stuff) because they were about to go bankrupt. They were trying very hard to save themselves, so it makes sense that they would make their most profitable line the most appealing.

Now, of course, TLG's about as far from bankruptcy as ever so they don't have to do that. Rather than being their lifeline, Bionicle is now one of their many successful lines they must manage. So this "lack of recolors" (which I would consider a pretty decent number in the first place) is them not needing to save themselves. That is a good thing.

Keep in mind constraction is a small subset of TLG's total sales, and constraction fans are a small subset of all buyers. TLG's purpose is not catering to us; they're not obligated to "give us" recolors or new molds. While those can increase sales of a set, the target audience (not us) tends to buy news sets because they are cool. Not for recolors or whatever.

Also remember that Star Wars constraction is a thing. We may yet see recolors through that line.

Edited April 10, 2015 by mysteriouspi

[MakutaOfWar]

So basically you all are saying that TLG is allowed to be cheap and un-dedicated to their fans "because they can" and that's alright?

[dviddy]

So basically you all are saying that TLG is allowed to be cheap and un-dedicated to their fans "because they can" and that's alright?

No. What us being said is now, unlike before, TLG is being -smart- with the line. The all-new mold heavy lines of the late 90s and early 00s were one of the reasons TLG was in dire financial straits. Turning that around meant limiting the number of elements and re-colours available to designers. This isn't being cheap, it's making smart financial decisions.

Also, I don't know where the "low budget" thing keeps coming from. A single report from one employee at one event is not compelling, when all things point at a pretty strong marketing and design budget. CCBS was designed to be akin to system bricks- a solid platform on which to build a customizable and variable build using the same basic architecture with each set. But we get something like thirty new molds this year! That isn't very different from what we got the last few years of the original run, which came after it was discovered the mold costs of past waves hasn't been factored into the line's profits.

On top of that, eight gold masks, several competitions, the NYCC event, a theme month at LBR stores, our own polybag... I'm just not seeing it. For once our line is following the same release pattern as other lines. Considering how many lines currently exist, this shouldn't surprise anyone. We're doing pretty well, especially for a niche theme.

[Logan McOwen]

http://img.pandawhale.com/post-53948-Shia-LaBeouf-Citizen-Kane-slow-Mdc4.gif

Well said.

Edited April 12, 2015 by VBBN
excessive gif changed to link

[Aanchir]

Yeah, TLG introducing new recolors and molds with reckless abandon isn't something they could get away with when they were near-bankruptcy. Rather, it's one of the REASONS they were near-bankruptcy in the first place. The number of new elements they had in production at any one time was expanding out of control, and there wasn't a system to ensure that each theme stayed within a manageable budget. Unless you want LEGO to return to the brink of bankruptcy, you must understand that many of their business practices back then were not healthy and should not be imitated in this day and age, whether or not they as a company seem to be able to afford it.

Also, while LEGO might release lots of new recolors in some of their other themes, part of the reason they are able to do that is because they can spread those recolors across several sets and get the most out of that investment. Take the various Flame Yellowish Orange parts in the Legends of Chima theme. The reason that LEGO can introduce so many recolors there is that pretty much every lion vehicle (and even some sets from other themes like Friends and Elves) can use those recolors. That's a lot different from BIONICLE, in which pretty much every set in a particular series will have a different color scheme, and any given year might have three sets at most with the same primary color. There simply aren't opportunities to use new BIONICLE recolors so extensively right out of the gate — unless those parts are in neutral or metallic colors that can be used across several sets with considerably different color schemes.

[GK733]

I'm more concerned with the lack of new shells. add ons don't count. And now Star Wars is getting two of them. I'd guess two bone-bones compliment that though. But the main problem rather being that they are hardly Bionicle. I'm not asking for loads and loads of piston shells but some would really be appreciated, along with some more bionicle themed bones. Of course they could still rely mostly on the Hero Factory produced parts but had some more specialized parts.

[Lyichir]

I seem to have missed the Lego Dimensions discussion, but I just wanted to chime in that Bionicle characters (represented as minifigures) would be far from impossible. The mini-hero designs from last year would still work perfectly well for most of the new Toa (with new masks and possibly new torso armor). And lest you think those molds were all retired right after IFB ended, the Lego Dimensions starter set actually uses Bulk's silver arm pieces on the "portal" construction! As for the question of whether or not Lego Dimensions would allow for new molds, we already know that it does. The Back to the Future set with Marty McFly includes a brand-new mold for his hoverboard. And I would imagine that new molds for Bionicle minifigures might have more potential for reuse than that considering that Bionicle is an in-house brand, allowing Lego to continue using parts based on the theme as much or for as long as they deem necessary.

It's still far from a certainty that Bionicle will make an appearance, of course. But it's probably our best chance at getting new Toa minifigures, something I desperately want, considering that Bionicle playsets do not have a strong sales record. And I can also see how Lego and TT Games might consider a "niche" theme like Bionicle to offer more sales potential through a crossover game like Lego Dimensions than it would as a dedicated console game. So I'm going to hold out hope.

[Lord-Vorahk]

I'd also love some new Toa Minifigs.

The Hordika ones were pretty awful. SOme of them made decent figurines, but that was about it. The 07 ones were just too lazy... but I like the 06 ones. In fact I think some of the Inika masks look better in Minifig form than they do in full-size. Jaller's not derping, and isn't lacking a nose. Hahli's girlstache is less noticeable. And the weapons we got with them were awesome. My sigfig actually uses the longsword that came with them.

[Scarilian]

The weekly winners for the first week of the Bionicle Mask Hunt were drawn finally, only about 4 days late :L

- Every one of them appears to have been a young winner this time around, make of that what you will...

- No facebook entries were among the winners, only twitter and instagram entries so once again, make of that what you will...

--

As for those saying 'TLG are just being smart by focusing on finances' that is precisely what being cheap with the line means. If you are focusing on the finances then you are not focusing on making something perfect you are focusing on how good it needs to be in order to be profiteable. Sure they are likely doing what they believe is wise and making sure the line is financially succesful, but that should'nt mean sacrificing the uniqueness and creativity that the original Bionicle had. Re-wording it doesnt change the fact that the sets using the simplistic HF looking pieces doesnt fit the theme.

Spending more the first year would honestly have been better in the long-run for Bionicle's return, as with a bunch of new pieces that would mean they'd only need to introduce a few new pieces each year after. That is precisely what the original Bionicle did and we still used the leg pieces of the Vahki up until the Phantoka. If they'd made new Bionicle pieces they could have re-used those each year since, instead they are just sticking to the same smooth pieces we've had since the 2012 Ultra Builds. They didnt really fit then and they still dont fit now.

The 2015 sets are hardly 'Bionicle' they dont have any technical feel to them other than the real new pieces. I understand this is the transition year where they'll switch from the HF pieces to the Bionicle pieces, but i just wish people would stop making excuses for it right now which it feels like a lot of people are doing. It'd be easier if people just came out and said "Ok, so this wave is weaker than what we were hoping for however it does have some good elements to it and hopefully by next year they will have phased out the non-bionicle looking pieces" rather than simply trying to say that its TLG being smart by not giving us good sets and instead focusing on marketting.

[Lyichir]

The weekly winners for the first week of the Bionicle Mask Hunt were drawn finally, only about 4 days late :L

- Every one of them appears to have been a young winner this time around, make of that what you will...

- No facebook entries were among the winners, only twitter and instagram entries so once again, make of that what you will...

--

As for those saying 'TLG are just being smart by focusing on finances' that is precisely what being cheap with the line means. If you are focusing on the finances then you are not focusing on making something perfect you are focusing on how good it needs to be in order to be profiteable. Sure they are likely doing what they believe is wise and making sure the line is financially succesful, but that should'nt mean sacrificing the uniqueness and creativity that the original Bionicle had. Re-wording it doesnt change the fact that the sets using the simplistic HF looking pieces doesnt fit the theme.

Spending more the first year would honestly have been better in the long-run for Bionicle's return, as with a bunch of new pieces that would mean they'd only need to introduce a few new pieces each year after. That is precisely what the original Bionicle did and we still used the leg pieces of the Vahki up until the Phantoka. If they'd made new Bionicle pieces they could have re-used those each year since, instead they are just sticking to the same smooth pieces we've had since the 2012 Ultra Builds. They didnt really fit then and they still dont fit now.

The 2015 sets are hardly 'Bionicle' they dont have any technical feel to them other than the real new pieces. I understand this is the transition year where they'll switch from the HF pieces to the Bionicle pieces, but i just wish people would stop making excuses for it right now which it feels like a lot of people are doing. It'd be easier if people just came out and said "Ok, so this wave is weaker than what we were hoping for however it does have some good elements to it and hopefully by next year they will have phased out the non-bionicle looking pieces" rather than simply trying to say that its TLG being smart by not giving us good sets and instead focusing on marketting.

Sorry, you're wrong.

No one alleged that Lego isn't caring about the theme beyond how to make it profitable. They've put a ridiculous amount of effort into the design and promotion of the theme. At the same time, they're not being as flagrantly wasteful as the original theme.

What new parts, specifically, do you think they should have made? Because the reuse of standardized shells and beams was the entire purpose of the CCBS. The new Bionicle sets do have a similar aesthetic to other CCBS-based themes, of course—but it was DESIGNED for that look. Just because it doesn't cover every set with excessive detail doesn't mean that it's "not Bionicle" or "cheap" or that they "didn't care".

No one's making excuses—we're explaining why what you seem to expect from the sets is impractical, unrealistic, and based largely on the classic theme's mistakes. I think you would qualify more as "making excuses"—you clearly don't like the sets, and that's okay! But you're trying to brand them as objectively bad just to justify your personal dislike.

[Clone 01354 Productions]

The 2015 sets are hardly 'Bionicle' they dont have any technical feel to them other than the real new pieces. I understand this is the transition year where they'll switch from the HF pieces to the Bionicle pieces, but i just wish people would stop making excuses for it right now which it feels like a lot of people are doing. It'd be easier if people just came out and said "Ok, so this wave is weaker than what we were hoping for however it does have some good elements to it and hopefully by next year they will have phased out the non-bionicle looking pieces" rather than simply trying to say that its TLG being smart by not giving us good sets and instead focusing on marketting.

LEGO isn't being cheap; they're acting like a real TOY COMPANY. They're not going to give a new theme a massive budget, and make all new pieces so that some picky fans can be happy.

And you said they are "sacrificing the uniqueness and creativity that the original Bionicle had".......are you joking? First off, their were plenty of pieces in the early sets that were reused from Slizers and Roboriders. Second, what do you even mean that they lack "uniqueness"? Do you mean how all of the Toa have their own personal masks, weapons, colors, and builds, and all of the Protectors each have their own builds, weapons, and colors too? Or do you mean how these look like no Hero Factory set, and these new BIONICLE sets have created their own look?

</rant>

Edited April 10, 2015 by LN-01354

[Kalhiki]

I prefer re-using and recoloring molds. That's always been the point of Lego to me. See what you can make out of a bunch of rectangular bricks. And the same can be said for CCBS: see what you can out of a bunch of bones and shells.

As for new molds, I feel they should be used when necessary or to add a certain effect. I mean, I like new molds for a freshness factor, but I also like to see what can be done with pre-existing parts.

Just my two cents.

[MakutaOfWar]

If there is one I can't stand with ccbs it's how bland the regular armor is, and as much as I want to say it feels like Bionicle deep down it is still only HF, and it's cheaper then it should be. Sure the new piston add ons is an awesome addition, the weapons feel like Bionicle, the masks, even a more customized build(which is only really due to the gearbox), but take those away and what does that give you; Hero Factory. The fact that TLG only cares about the "profitable audience" is megablocks and it seems like almost everyone here is being, and allowing to be, whipped. I still love the sets, but lets face it, is TLG giving it all they can; NO.

Edit: Why does it say megablocks where I put b.u.l.l.s.h.I.t?

Edited April 11, 2015 by MakutaOfWar

[GK733]

I prefer re-using and recoloring molds. That's always been the point of Lego to me. See what you can make out of a bunch of rectangular bricks. And the same can be said for CCBS: see what you can out of a bunch of bones and shells.

As for new molds, I feel they should be used when necessary or to add a certain effect. I mean, I like new molds for a freshness factor, but I also like to see what can be done with pre-existing parts.

Just my two cents.

It wouldn't be so tiresome if these "existing parts" would had been product of Brain Attack and IfB, But no, these buggers are from the days of ordeal of fire. For people who have been missing most Hero Factory sets, like I did after Breakout this sure is not that big of a problem and the pieces can have that "fresh" feel. If anything that awful torso plate and feet need to go already, I'm becoming dead sick on those. And if rumors are to be believed we get a new one that actually has some sort of belt thing.

And people's main complain that they don't always put right is that these lack the aesthetic of Bionicle and certainly look more like Hero Factory not one piston addon makes that huge of a difference. Here's hoping that next year will bring at least one actual piston bone and shell. Then they can recolor them all they want and I'm happy with that.

[dviddy]

Yeah, I hate that a toy company is trying to make money and stay in business!

The argument that the shells are Hero Factory and that this is a "transition year" is one I have seen all over the Internet. It is wrong. The purpose of CCBS was to keep the basic building blocks the same and vary the designs and details pieces, the same way system sets do. You will notice very few system fans complain that TLG continues to use 2x4 basic bricks in so many sets. This is the same as that. The system has been used for four lines now, each introducing only a small number of specialized parts. That isn't going to change just because the name says BIONICLE.

Frankly, I am very glad they have retired the super busy design style of EVERY part seen in the first line. It was over-designed and cluttered and I personally prefer the more aerodynamic aesthetic introduced with CCBS. Let's make sure to remember that any claim that this "doesn't look like BIONICLE" is a personal preference. I think, as do many others, that the new line pulls all re right elements from the original to draw me in and say "yes, this is BIONICLE and nothing else." It simply changed some if the details in the re-vamp. Those details didn't define the design principles for me. Ergo, looks like BIONICLE.

As for introducing a large number if new parts and then re-using them the next few years, as was said the original line did... This happened with the latter years precisely because it was discovered the intricate molds associated with the line and normally used only for the one year had not been fully figured into the line's costs. Once they were, the mold use was re-evaluated and that is when you saw limb parts get re-used over and over and the same basic structure was kept. You know, for the exact same reason they are doing what they are doing now.

[mysteriouspi]

I still love the sets, but lets face it, is TLG giving it all they can; NO.

If TLG is giving us all they can they're doing something wrong. They have so many other product lines to take care of; BIONICLE is not more entitled to new molds and recolors than any other line. Honestly I'm impressed with how many it's received thus far.

The argument that the shells are Hero Factory and that this is a "transition year" is one I have seen all over the Internet. It is wrong. The purpose of CCBS was to keep the basic building blocks the same and vary the designs and details pieces, the same way system sets do. You will notice very few system fans complain that TLG continues to use 2x4 basic bricks in so many sets. This is the same as that. The system has been used for four lines now, each introducing only a small number of specialized parts. That isn't going to change just because the name says BIONICLE.

Yep.

[DuckBricks]

Not sure if this is on topic or not, but the weekly mask hunt winners have been revealed. The fact that I own the object depicted in the Mask of Ice's pic and could have entered it makes me very sad...

EDIT: sorry, never mind, I got Kapura'd by Scarilian...

Edited April 11, 2015 by legozebra

[MakutaOfWar]

Okay, so as a fan I should accept the fact that I give love and receive none in return? Whatever.

[DuckBricks]

Okay, so as a fan I should accept the fact that I give love and receive none in return? Whatever.

Receive none? This year's constraction based sets are hands down, the best CCBS sets we've gotten. I could repeat all the reasons Bionicle has gotten more focus than most themes, but those reasons have been iterated over and over before. It's great that you love Bionicle and the sets- I'm sure almost everyone in this topic does too- but Lego has already given us so much for Bionicle. I think we should be happy with what we have- this is certainly much more of a marketing push that Bionicle got in its later years.

The assertion that removing the gearbox, piston add on, and mask makes it "Hero Factory" just doesn't make sense to me. I think the problem is the mindset that every CCBS- based constraction set is "Hero Factory" is flawed. What about Chima, Super Heroes, and now Star Wars? Hero Factory was merely the theme that introduced CCBS. CCBS doesn't necessarily have to mean "Hero Factory."

In addition, I don't really think Hero Factory was that bad for what it was. Sure, it had its share of clone sets, but Bionicle had years and years of clone sets back on the day. Witch Doctor, one of he best HF sets, easily trumps other Titans of Bionicle such as Sidorak or Krekka. And even if removing the armor, pistons, masks, and weapons really does make the sets "Hero Factory," the fact is, the sets INCLUDE said items. Those are what sets these Bionicles apart from the clone sets of HF, and gives each Bionicle it's own individuality.

Edited April 11, 2015 by legozebra

[Kalhiki]

We got Bionicle back. If that's not Lego showing the fans love, I don't know what is.

[Vinyl Scratch]

We got Bionicle back. If that's not Lego showing the fans love, I don't know what is.

Word.

They could've easily made another constraction theme. But they brought back BIONICLE. That's some fanservice.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Vinyl Scratch

[GK733]

Asking for one new mold isn't that bad. I would had ditched boomerangs for one pistonic CCBS mold to be honest.

[Mesonak]

Asking for one new mold isn't that bad. I would had ditched boomerangs for one pistonic CCBS mold to be honest.

Yeah...

My opinions can be summarized very easily so rather than do some rant post I'll just say this:

-CCBS > Old system

-Would I like some more shells and some more detailed armor, though? Sure

-Lego is showing a lot of love and care with 2015 BIONICLE as has been demonstrated time and time again

-HOWEVER, I do feel they would have been better served investing some of their marketing budget into getting a fully fledged TV show (or even full-length webisodes) done in the same excellent artistic style rather than... whatever we have right now.