Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Scarilian]

In terms of separating old and new, I wonder if the people that don't want the two lines to be connected realise that making the protectors the Turaga or the Mctoran would actually help there.

See, if the Protectors are new versions of the Turaga, rather than just similar characters, then Tahu and co. obviously can't be from a world where the Turaga are around.

In terms of the roles the Protector Elders they serve the same function as the Turaga, passing down advice and leading the villagers. The younger villagers are similar to the Matoran, mostly just living normal lives and needing rescuing. In that extent they are similar.

Though personally i'd rather see new characters or new versions of the characters than just making them the same, the only small desire to see the two two lines connected that i think would be helpful is that it'd be a good twist later down the line that would easily allow for a lot of prior universe stuff to be re-introduced while maintaining the same characterisation and appearance, which would essentially mean we could end up getting the older characters represented in CCBS. Though thats only a small desire and nothing substantiated

[MakutaOfWar]

The re-imaging of Gen 1's matoran as small size classed sets next year would be awesome, as long as they implement the Toa masks in recolors. As for the medium sized sets I would appreciate more villains before they release more Toa or what have you. Plus a whole wave of small vs large would be refreshing to have again in Constraction. Of course this is rumors aside. Maybe even have Bohrok, but instead of having cloned sets with different colors maybe have actual different sets in terms of build style, like a standard Bohrok, one with multiple legs, etc. But this is all just my imagination. It's allll just my imagination... c_c

[Master_Data]

In terms of separating old and new, I wonder if the people that don't want the two lines to be connected realise that making the protectors the Turaga or the Mctoran would actually help there.

See, if the Protectors are new versions of the Turaga, rather than just similar characters, then Tahu and co. obviously can't be from a world where the Turaga are around.

I posted this in the G1 thread, but Greg Farshtey announced on the LMBs that he doesn't think that the new team wants a connection between the two lines, so shared names don't really matter because they aren't connected story-wise. I'm pretty sure the Easter eggs we've seen so far have just been the new team's way of saying "We're fans too!"

Edited April 20, 2015 by Master_Data

[Mandate]

I posted this in the G1 thread, but Greg Farshtey announced on the LMBs that he doesn't think that the new team wants a connection between the two lines, so shared names don't really matter because they aren't connected story-wise. I'm pretty sure the Easter eggs we've seen so far have just been the new team's way of saying "We're fans too!"

So, plastering the Vahi over everything is a way of saying "We're fans too!" and not a creepy mask fetish?

[Scarilian]

So, plastering the Vahi over everything is a way of saying "We're fans too!" and not a creepy mask fetish?

I think its also to remind people of the core theme 'Time' even if its very on-the-nose. I mean, eventually we are probably going to learn where the Toa came from or have their memories return and their arrivial in Okoto concerns Time Travel being summoned by a Mask Of Time at the Temple Of Time.

In TLG's view;

- Easiest way to remind young fans of that is to refrence Time constantly to the point where they associate the new Bionicle with Time :P

- Easiest way to remind older fans would be to refrence something concerning Time that occured in the movies, as the fans are most likely going to remember them as they were not as complex as picking a segment of the overall story

[Mandate]

I think its also to remind people of the core theme 'Time' even if its very on-the-nose. I mean, eventually we are probably going to learn where the Toa came from or have their memories return and their arrivial in Okoto concerns Time Travel being summoned by a Mask Of Time at the Temple Of Time.

In TLG's view;

- Easiest way to remind young fans of that is to refrence Time constantly to the point where they associate the new Bionicle with Time :P

- Easiest way to remind older fans would be to refrence something concerning Time that occured in the movies, as the fans are most likely going to remember them as they were not as complex as picking a segment of the overall story

I don't think we can really call "time" the, or a, core theme yet. In comparison to the movie Mask of Light, destiny was a core theme of the film. Why? Because that was the focus of the adventure: Takua's destiny of becoming the seventh Toa and subsequently doing nothing for 4 more years. At the moment, time itself is never referenced to. Sure, there was a Temple of Time, but it had nothing to do with time, rather timing. Other than that, there's no mention of time anywhere. The Vahi is present oh so frequently, but it's only white noise, it's has no revealed relevance to the story. Keep in mind most kids aren't even going to have the faintest idea of what the Vahi is or does unless they delve into the old lore (which is a likely possibility many dismiss) but most kids that do notice the Vahi aren't going to associate it, or the line itself, with time at all, simply because they have no clue as to what it does or means.

[AyliffeMakit]

I don't think that we've really seen enough to be able to call anything a main theme just yet. Ask this question again after we've seen the webisodes for the summer wave and then we'll have a decent amount of storyline to evaluate.

Meanwhile over on Know Your Meme...

[DOTM Shockwave]

Meanwhile over on Know Your Meme...

*snip*

I laughed harder than I should have.

[DraikNova]

I actually laughed at that. Bonus points if someone manage to:

a: get that link working.

b: manage to make a fake site with the sort of stuff those links normally have (I've never had the misfortune of accidentally clicking such an ad).

[mysteriouspi]

That meme is brilliant.

Actually it's one of the reasons I prefer the Toa Okoto designs over those of the Toa Mata (I know, sue me): their bodies have substance. The Mata's limbs were much more stick-like in comparison.

[Scarilian]

I don't think we can really call "time" the, or a, core theme yet. In comparison to the movie Mask of Light, destiny was a core theme of the film. Why? Because that was the focus of the adventure: Takua's destiny of becoming the seventh Toa and subsequently doing nothing for 4 more years. At the moment, time itself is never referenced to. Sure, there was a Temple of Time, but it had nothing to do with time, rather timing. Other than that, there's no mention of time anywhere.

Maybe not the core theme but definitely a massive focus with many aspects of the story revolving around time and the passage of time, not sure why you didnt spot all the refrences... then again their are some that i missed because their are so many.

List of refrences to time in new series;

- "We dont have TIME tahu" (Followed by pointing at the Vahi symbol)

- Vahi appearances

- Temple Of Time

- Mask Of Time (A mask used to summon the Toa from time)

- Summoned from a different Time (Time Travel)

- Focus on the idea of Time passing (Ancient City that we see thousands of years ago and then in present day)

The Vahi is present oh so frequently, but it's only white noise, it's has no revealed relevance to the story. Keep in mind most kids aren't even going to have the faintest idea of what the Vahi is or does unless they delve into the old lore (which is a likely possibility many dismiss) but most kids that do notice the Vahi aren't going to associate it, or the line itself, with time at all, simply because they have no clue as to what it does or means.

Having seen all the animations, the Vahi appears about 10+ times. While its considered an easter egg, one does question why that easter egg would be chosen. The Vahi being referred to constantly as 'The Mask Of Time' in Legends Of Metru Nui would mean most kids who are getting into the series OR older fans of Bionicle would probably end up seeing the movies and associating time with it.

[Aanchir]

I don't think that we've really seen enough to be able to call anything a main theme just yet. Ask this question again after we've seen the webisodes for the summer wave and then we'll have a decent amount of storyline to evaluate.

Meanwhile over on Know Your Meme...

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/889/244/60f.png

Three weeks? More like fourteen years! XD

[Lord-Vorahk]

I lol'd more than I should've at the KYM thing. Kudos.

[Nexobituous]

I had a crazy theory about the seemingly "undead" creatures of the Ancient city. I was thinking, since the Skull warriors look similar to Toa, what if the Protectors lied, and the Toa are simply one of many teams summoned to try and deal with the threats within. The previously summoned teams all perished and were reanimated, and these Toa are the first to finally succeed. Thus, the Skull Grinder/Slicer ect. are all previously summoned Toa who were killed and raised by Makuta (Or whoever is behind all this.)

[GK733]

I had a crazy theory about the seemingly "undead" creatures of the Ancient city. I was thinking, since the Skull warriors look similar to Toa, what if the Protectors lied, and the Toa are simply one of many teams summoned to try and deal with the threats within. The previously summoned teams all perished and were reanimated, and these Toa are the first to finally succeed. Thus, the Skull Grinder/Slicer ect. are all previously summoned Toa who were killed and raised by Makuta (Or whoever is behind all this.)

I'll slap you in the face if theory this awesome turns out to be true and you spoiled it.

Edited April 21, 2015 by GK733

[MakutaOfWar]

The story is still really anybody's guess. Not too terribly much to work with at the moment, I just do hope that there is more to it.

[Kalhiki]

My current head canon says they were an ancient race, Pre-Protector species. They lived in the Ancient City until some stuff happened (war?) and they were wiped out.

Only to be awakened from their endless slumber to retake what was once rightfully theirs!

[Clone 01354 Productions]

What if the Skull villains are like the Rahi from Gen 1: originally, they were benevolent creatures (or, in this case, Villagers) who got possessed and/or mutated by the Mask of Ultimate Power? Then they attacked the Ancient City (or, at the time, the City?), and the Protectors defeated them and fled the City, dividing up into tribes across the island?

Really, it could be anything. For all we know, these are Shadow Toa. Or, for all we know, their origin will never be explained.

[Kalta the Noble Mind]

I had a crazy theory about the seemingly "undead" creatures of the Ancient city. I was thinking, since the Skull warriors look similar to Toa, what if the Protectors lied, and the Toa are simply one of many teams summoned to try and deal with the threats within. The previously summoned teams all perished and were reanimated, and these Toa are the first to finally succeed. Thus, the Skull Grinder/Slicer ect. are all previously summoned Toa who were killed and raised by Makuta (Or whoever is behind all this.)

i believe someone here claimed a major theme in G2 is "time" with the constant hidden vahis and how the toa were summoned out of time using the mask of time at the temple of time ect.

what if not only were these Skull warriors falen toa but past/future/dopplegangers of the current toa. essentially this is a never ending time loop of an ultimate evil taking control and the inhabitants of the island try desperately to break it via summoning capable heroes from the before or after time to take care of the now.

it could explain how Ekimu ,essentially a celebrity craftsman, could know about the prophecy of heroes to tell the protectors: he has lived through these events before so knows what needs to be done to set things right. it can also explain the sacred law of making masks with no more than one element. there are other multi-elemented mask wearers (or masks if the speculation of the MoUP is indeed sentient) who not only wreaked havoc in the past but still do so today,or in other times. or something to that effect.

this could be the new meta-plot twist taking place of G1's mata nui robot. there are many timelines out there with the toa coming from/inhabiting one of many which all lead up to some sort of climax.

bet it can be a clever way to get new versions of the same characters in less cumbersome a manner, they are from different situations or different "chapters" or so.

could also be a unique way of honoring the original themes of G1. time here could be G2's take on destiny but with the intention to defy it rather than discover it. basically the heroes can fight fate and not let the world control their actions,maybe even letting them control the world instead by way of being masters of the elements.

or something.

[Kalta the Noble Mind]

What if the Skull villains are like the Rahi from Gen 1: originally, they were benevolent creatures (or, in this case, Villagers) who got possessed and/or mutated by the Mask of Ultimate Power? Then they attacked the Ancient City (or, at the time, the City?), and the Protectors defeated them and fled the City, dividing up into tribes across the island?

but the mask of ultimate power is made up of the 6 natural elements of the masters. how can fire water earth stone ice and plantlife cause mutations in lifeforms?

then again in G1 IIRC 6 kanoka disks i think containing each metru's element managed to make the mask of Time. but that mask already exists fully made in G2

only other legendary mask that was in existence already outside of the mask of creation was the mask of life, i believe said to be the most powerful mask in the MU.

so in G2 we have two legendary masks in existence already ,time and creation. and the only one missing is life. and the only legendary mask that was created during the story was time but that was already made.

and here the story is kicked off by having the most powerful mask made, but there is no mask of life which i believe was considered the...Ultimate ...Power...

oooh...

[mysteriouspi]

but the mask of ultimate power is made up of the 6 natural elements of the masters. how can fire water earth stone ice and plantlife cause mutations in lifeforms?

then again in G1 IIRC 6 kanoka disks i think containing each metru's element managed to make the mask of Time. but that mask already exists fully made in G2

only other legendary mask that was in existence already outside of the mask of creation was the mask of life, i believe said to be the most powerful mask in the MU.

so in G2 we have two legendary masks in existence already ,time and creation. and the only one missing is life. and the only legendary mask that was created during the story was time but that was already made.

and here the story is kicked off by having the most powerful mask made, but there is no mask of life which i believe was considered the...Ultimate ...Power...

oooh...

Hard to say. Gen 2 likely won't have the same "legendary mask set" as Gen 1. The powers of the MoCr in Gen 2 have yet to be explained; they could differ from the power of the MoCr in Gen 1. Even more so, the Mask of Time: the Kanohi Vahi (Gen 1) was only capable of speeding up/slowing down time, while the Gen 2 Mask of Time appears to be able to open gateways to different times.

As to comparing the MoUP to the Mask of Life... I don't think so. It could be considered most powerful mask from Gen 1, but "ultimate power" was only a descriptor, not a name. Looking at things black-and-white, the Ignika was the "ultimate good guy" mask from Gen 1. The MoUP is so far the "ultimate bad guy" mask in Gen 2, and from what we can tell, it is intrinsically evil (at the least, uncontrollable). So saying the MoUP is an analogue to the Ignika seems out of place.

[Kalta the Noble Mind]

saying the MoUP is an analogue to the Ignika seems out of place.

it was. i kind of forced the realization as a joke.

though i admit i kinda like the idea of multi-elemental masks becoming G2's legendaries as well as being sentient. like the mask of time is the mystic/diefied half of mata nui with the mask of ultimate power being that counterpart for makuta. and maybe akamai and whiura becoming the masks of war and wisdom respectfully when the masters fuse their golden masks (or those translucent/gold masks in the summer wave).

though i am curious to know how masks work in G2. i just remember in the description of the MoCr that it was made of literal metal gold and magic rather than the phlebotinum G1 gave us and that the Masters' masks now hold their elemental power rather than it being inate. also dont recall what the golden masks do.

also with the Legend of the mask makers confirming that the masks are infused with elements i am curious to know what counts as an element. of the 10 masks we know of 8 of them were considered elements in G1 (6 toa elements + time + creation) while the last two (control and skull spiders) seem like the standard kind of superpower G1 kanohi ad, and the latter seems to be a more specific/restricted version of the former.

could this be a mere flub on the narrator's part and he meant to say "powers" rather than "elements" (as elemental power is still a superpower) or can G2 have more abstract classical elements than G1 (sonics,psionics,plasma.etc) .

and unless i overlooked it i dont recall any explanation on how said powers worked. like i know G1 mask of creation allowed the wearer to materialize any object they knew how to create by hand and granted instant knowledge on creating anything they didnt know how to build themselves. does Ekimu's mask allow him to do the same?

[Mandate]

Maybe not the core theme but definitely a massive focus with many aspects of the story revolving around time and the passage of time, not sure why you didnt spot all the refrences... then again their are some that i missed because their are so many.

List of refrences to time in new series;

- "We dont have TIME tahu" (Followed by pointing at the Vahi symbol)

- Vahi appearances

- Temple Of Time

- Mask Of Time (A mask used to summon the Toa from time)

- Summoned from a different Time (Time Travel)

- Focus on the idea of Time passing (Ancient City that we see thousands of years ago and then in present day)

- When?

- Vahi =/= time

- Temple of Time, not time itself

- Unconfirmed

- Unconfirmed

- Irrelevant

Not a massive focus at all. Time has zero relevance to the story right now, other than the "passage of time" which is a given in every story.

Having seen all the animations, the Vahi appears about 10+ times. While its considered an easter egg, one does question why that easter egg would be chosen. The Vahi being referred to constantly as 'The Mask Of Time' in Legends Of Metru Nui would mean most kids who are getting into the series OR older fans of Bionicle would probably end up seeing the movies and associating time with it.

Now, tell me, exactly what does time itself have to do with the story at this point? The answer is: nothing. There's no time travel, there's no slowing down of time, and there's no speeding up of time either. The Vahi is not a "theme" simply because its likeness appears everywhere, it needs to have actively implied relevance and direct usage in the story itself. Destiny was a core them of the original BIONICLE because it was everywhere; every character had a destiny and a role to play no matter how insignificant or grand it might be. Unity was a core theme because defeating Makuta depended on the Toa being a team and their elemental powers. Duty was a core theme because of how it related to destiny, but overall it was less notable than the other two. Time is barely even a concept in the new line, and it's definitely out of the limelight for the moment.

Side-note: Can someone explain to me how time travel = dimension jumping?

[dviddy]

The temple of Time and the Mask of Time being used to summon the Toa are indeed confirmed plot points. Several different media mentions of both, and the temple of Time was in a slide at NYCC too.

Now, the mask of time being used to summon the Toa doesn't entirely mean they were summoned through time, just that the power of the mask was what summoned them. Semantics, but important semantics.

[Mandate]

The temple of Time and the Mask of Time being used to summon the Toa are indeed confirmed plot points. Several different media mentions of both, and the temple of Time was in a slide at NYCC too.

Ah, sorry. I had forgotten about that.