Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Dorek]

Now, the mask of time being used to summon the Toa doesn't entirely mean they were summoned through time, just that the power of the mask was what summoned them. Semantics, but important semantics.

They are called "timeless heroes", and I'm pretty sure there's a reference of summoning them "from time", but really, these can mean a lot of things; "through time" would have been more specific than either! Looking forward to seeing how it plays out regardless, especially in regards to a physical Mask of Time.

[GK733]

We could just cut this time debate again until we get any further information, it's an interesting topic yes but then again it has led people to go to each others throats from time to time( heh).

Has anyone been able to replicate a functioning Basher's back yet?

Edited April 21, 2015 by GK733

[Logan McOwen]

I haven't seen anyone do that yet actually.

[MakutaOfWar]

We could just cut this time debate again until we get any further information, it's an interesting topic yes but then again it has led people to go to each others throats from time to time( heh).

Has anyone been able to replicate a functioning Basher's back yet?

I see what you did there. And isn't it basically just Dragon Bolt's wing function but with arms? Which I'm totally looking forward to because that kept me entertained.

[Scarilian]

Now, tell me, exactly what does time itself have to do with the story at this point? The answer is: nothing.

So pretty much all the stuff relating to time that has been the only uniquely focused on thing in the comics, animations and information release so far, you view as irrelevant and not part of the story or relevant in any way. The whole time aspect is important to the story, whether most people notice that now or not.

As for 'further information' the writer of the animations, when asked about the story, expressed worry that not enough focus had been made on the idea of time passing and the general idea of the current protectors being descendants of those that laid Ekimu to rest. As such, if the writer is concerned about not enough focus being made on the idea of time, then its probably important to the story more than just backstory.

"The story states that at least a thousand years have passed, and thus several generations of villagers. This is also why the legend talks about passing the prophecy. So the protectors we see in the present are descendants of the ones laying Ekimu to rest. The 'aeon past'-thing was actually toned down - perhaps too much, as it seems to have been missed by many."

Has anyone been able to replicate a functioning Basher's back yet?

Its essentially Dragon Bolt's function with some minor tweaks. Ended up replicating it back when we got the last batch of pics, ends up working pretty well.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Scarilian

[Logan McOwen]

So I did one of those #BionicleMaskHunt things that everyone's raving about...

[Kalhiki]

So I did one of those #BionicleMaskHunt things that everyone's raving about...

Nice one.

I'm kinda sad that, despite how much I've looked I simply can't find any faces anywhere. :/

[Scarilian]

Calling foul on the competition. People are winning multiple times... surely this should'nt be allowed. So much going wrong with this competition, people winning multiple times, entire sites being ignored, rules not being specified, entries being ignored or not being counted. Especially considering that due to winning in two different weeks that gives them twice as high a chance to get one (or even two, given they can have the same winner multiple times) golden masks in the final draw. Surely its unfair on other fans if the same person can win multiple weeks ¬.¬

Edited April 21, 2015 by Scarilian

[Tazakk]

You'd think that something as obvious as that would be easy to avoid?

EDIT: Oh, the LEGO tweet says "Again :)". Wow, what the heck.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Tazakk

[Scarilian]

You'd think that something as obvious as that would be easy to avoid?

EDIT: Oh, the LEGO tweet says "Again :)". Wow, what the heck.

Yep... so they know that person won already, and they are still choosing them as a winner and giving it to them again anyway Great job Lego

Edit;

So according to my calculations that means that person wins 2 Toa automatically (Pohatu and Kopaka?) Plus an addition 2 x 1 in 6 chance of getting a golden mask.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Scarilian

[One Very Agile Cat]

Whoa whoa whoa, you're trying to tell me a massive corperation held a nonsensical contest and aren't playing it fairly at all?

Shocked, I am SHOCKED. :P But in seriousness, I'm surprised anyone's, well, surprised. This contest is so silly and totally up to interpretation. For example, those two entries by the same person that both won don't make any sense. If the goal was to find a face in something, the helmet shouldn't have won as there's no face in it I can see. If the goal is to find something that looks like a mask, the whistle shouldn't have won. That doesn't look like a Bionice mask at all. (unless you count the very un-Bionicle doodles used for random Matoran in the occasional comic or illustration)

They've built a competition around finding something that's not there. I'm not surprised they're not giving a hoot about fairness or rules.

[Scarilian]

Also, Lego have now decided to state the following.

When asked whether entries from a prior week would be accepted in the next week;

"Entries are considered only from the week they're submitted"

I did ask and they clarified they mean only valid in the week submitted

So... much... RAGE

Essentially introducing a brand new rule two-three weeks into the compeititon that is not specified in the terms and conditions that means they have been ignoring all the prior enteries for each consequetive week. So all the enteries submitted in any prior week are pointless now ¬.¬

Edited April 21, 2015 by Scarilian

[dviddy]

I thought it was pretty clear from the beginning that entries were only per week. I also don't see anything against a person winning twice either, so while maybe unlikely, it doesn't seem wrong. Obviously YMMV, but neither seems like a reason to rage.

[Tazakk]

Whoa whoa whoa, you're trying to tell me a massive corperation held a nonsensical contest and aren't playing it fairly at all?

Shocked, I am SHOCKED. :P But in seriousness, I'm surprised anyone's, well, surprised. This contest is so silly and totally up to interpretation. For example, those two entries by the same person that both won don't make any sense. If the goal was to find a face in something, the helmet shouldn't have won as there's no face in it I can see. If the goal is to find something that looks like a mask, the whistle shouldn't have won. That doesn't look like a Bionice mask at all. (unless you count the very un-Bionicle doodles used for random Matoran in the occasional comic or illustration)

They've built a competition around finding something that's not there. I'm not surprised they're not giving a hoot about fairness or rules.

"Silly" and "Up for Interpretation" are not okay excuses when the terms and conditions explicitly state,

"2.8 Competitions must be entered as per any instructions set out for the competition in question on the LEGO websites and channels. Participants can enter the competition with multiple entries, however, they will only be eligible to win one prize."

LEGO has actively awarded this person two prizes, in direct violation of their own rules, and at the expense of some kid hopeful of winning a toa and maybe a gold mask. That is not cool.

[Scarilian]

I thought it was pretty clear from the beginning that entries were only per week.

It was not made clear or even mentioned as that aspect is listed nowhere amongst the rules or terms or conditions.

I also don't see anything against a person winning twice either, so while maybe unlikely, it doesn't seem wrong. Obviously YMMV, but neither seems like a reason to rage.

"2.8 Competitions must be entered as per any instructions set out for the competition in question on the LEGO websites and channels. Participants can enter the competition with multiple entries, however, they will only be eligible to win one prize."

This person has won, been actively acknowledged as winning twice and is being rewarded a second prize. This not only violates their own rules, but it also limits the chance of other entries winning.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Scarilian

[MakutaOfWar]

Well, I'm not one for crap competitions anyways, but it's still not fair for those that have entered. Of course people will disagree with me though, I'm not sure this community accepts "fairness".

[dviddy]

It was not made clear or even mentioned as that aspect is listed nowhere amongst the rules or terms or conditions.

"2.8 Competitions must be entered as per any instructions set out for the competition in question on the LEGO websites and channels. Participants can enter the competition with multiple entries, however, they will only be eligible to win one prize."

This person has won, been actively acknowledged as winning twice and is being rewarded a second prize. This not only violates their own rules, but it also limits the chance of other entries winning.

If the entry period is reset each week, then the person has won two different competitions, and nothing has been violated. And since they have clarified the entry process, which again, seemed intuitive and implied, the awarding of to prizes for two seperate competitions violates no policy.

I'm all for fairness, and I have my own complaints about prior competitions such as the gold mask moc contest, but this incessant complaining about this contest, limited by social media constraints, seems a tad over the top, IMO.

[Scarilian]

If the entry period is reset each week, then the person has won two different competitions, and nothing has been violated. And since they have clarified the entry process, which again, seemed intuitive and implied, the awarding of to prizes for two seperate competitions violates no policy.

It is very clearly designated the same competition. The rules specify the competition as covering all weeks and list the weeks of the competition. It never refers to them as being seperate competitions and they all use the same entry method. They all share the same rules and they all occur within the timeframe of 30^th March 2015 to 10^th May 2015. Whether entries from one week are automatically accepted for another or have to be resubmitted doesnt factor into the pre-written rules.

So Lego is violating their own rules and is knowingly doing so. Companies shouldnt make a legally binding terms and conditions between themselves and those who enter their competitions and then proceed to break said terms and conditions with knowledge that doing so is breaking the terms and conditions.

Sure they have rules that essentially make excuses for some of the more 'iffy' aspects (2.7/2.9) which enable completely ignoring all Facebook entries (3 weeks and not a single Facebook entry has won... only twitter and instagram) however when the rule is so obvious that people can easily qoute them on which rule they broke (2.8) then its something that should'nt have happened.

Side note 1;

I dont view you as having a personal vendeta and i understand you value the facts above all else and just generally want to have a consistent conversation where we are all up to date. Its just you mention things like this and its just confusing. Combined with your last post it feels like you are making excuses for Lego clearly violating a rule in the terms and conditions without actually having familiarised yourself with the terms and conditions. Maybe i am incorrect about this as obviously i dont know for sure whether you have or have'nt read them. Its just when you mentioned the idea of it being a seperate competition each week, which doesnt make sense given the terms and conditions, it just confuses me...

I'm all for fairness, and I have my own complaints about prior competitions such as the gold mask moc contest, but this incessant complaining about this contest, limited by social media constraints, seems a tad over the top, IMO.

Just trying to understand here because your opinion seems a little clouded, as far as i can tell the general jist is;

You have complaints about the competition prior, but rather than choose to voice those complaints and potentially help fix issues like this in the future... you are getting annoyed about the 'incessant complaining' consisting of ten comments on this page alone, two of which are your own in a very recent discussion in which you seem to support that Lego can do no wrong and that it has to be a flaw on my understanding of the rules. While also believing its a tad over the top to complain about competitions, despite having complaints yourself which you are not bringing up because...

Side note 2;

Maybe you are also including the prior comments about the issue with the moc contest and others along with myself mention the poor handling of the facebook entries to raise awareness for people hoping to enter... however all these still have the purpose of raising awareness and generally getting the issues sorted. The lack of people bringing up these complaints to Lego is likely the main issue with why we still have terribly run competitions that end up seeming really unfair for members. The facebook entries are still not counted, the twitter entries get priority and the instagram users sometimes get ignored completely also. The handling of the competition is a complete mess and personal rage at that aside (despite entering about 20 entries the first week and now being told they are pointless), i'd still like it fixed before the next competition comes along and its even worse.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Scarilian

[dviddy]

What I'm saying is that it's not TLG "clearly violating their own TOS and rules". IF (and they did) clarify that entries are only counted on a week-by-week basis, than technically they can argue that each week is a brand new competition, with each week consisting of "new" winners because it's an entirely "new" set of entrants. So when they say "you can enter multiple times but only win once", it reads to me like "you can enter multiple times [during a week] but only win once [during that week]". So a member can't win the Stone and Fire categories each week, but theoretically as each week is a new set of entrants, separate from the past weeks', you could theoretically win the fire one week and the stone the next week.

It's a bit of an Obi-Wan style "from a certain point of view" but it's most likely legally defensible and what they intended, considering all the posts about "weekly winners" and whatnot (which I and many others took to mean each week's entries were separate, because it doesn't quite make sense to keep adding to your workload each week when you've already decided a group of them aren't worth winning one week.)

I've voiced most of my complaints about the MOC contest before, even on here, but some of my complaints or criticisms aren't airable because of my NDA role. It is what it is.

[Mandate]

So pretty much all the stuff relating to time that has been the only uniquely focused on thing in the comics, animations and information release so far, you view as irrelevant and not part of the story or relevant in any way. The whole time aspect is important to the story, whether most people notice that now or not.

As for 'further information' the writer of the animations, when asked about the story, expressed worry that not enough focus had been made on the idea of time passing and the general idea of the current protectors being descendants of those that laid Ekimu to rest. As such, if the writer is concerned about not enough focus being made on the idea of time, then its probably important to the story more than just backstory.

"The story states that at least a thousand years have passed, and thus several generations of villagers. This is also why the legend talks about passing the prophecy. So the protectors we see in the present are descendants of the ones laying Ekimu to rest. The 'aeon past'-thing was actually toned down - perhaps too much, as it seems to have been missed by many."

Relevancy? Yes, time is important to the story. But it is not a theme.

With your quote of Merlin Mann, you've missed the point entirely. What Merlin was saying in that quote is that "A lot of time has passed, but we didn't make it too clear in the story which made the timespan seem shorter than it was". He's saying that more time has passed than most people think. The time between Ekimu's death slumber's beginning and the Toa's arrival has little to no effect on the story at this current moment, save for some buildings being ruined. Time is never a concept dwelled on in the minisodes in the few instances it is brought up, and has very little effect on the overall story.

[Dorek]

The time between Ekimu's death slumber's beginning and the Toa's arrival has little to no effect on the story at this current moment, save for some buildings being ruined.

Well, and entire generations of Islanders/Protectors living and dying and passing down the Prophecy of Heroes. But yeah =P.

That said, given all of the other references to time, it's certainly a motif, if not per se a theme.

[Scarilian]

What I'm saying is that it's not TLG "clearly violating their own TOS and rules". IF (and they did) clarify that entries are only counted on a week-by-week basis, than technically they can argue that each week is a brand new competition, with each week consisting of "new" winners because it's an entirely "new" set of entrants. So when they say "you can enter multiple times but only win once", it reads to me like "you can enter multiple times [during a week] but only win once [during that week]". So a member can't win the Stone and Fire categories each week, but theoretically as each week is a new set of entrants, separate from the past weeks', you could theoretically win the fire one week and the stone the next week.

It's a bit of an Obi-Wan style "from a certain point of view" but it's most likely legally defensible and what they intended, considering all the posts about "weekly winners" and whatnot (which I and many others took to mean each week's entries were separate, because it doesn't quite make sense to keep adding to your workload each week when you've already decided a group of them aren't worth winning one week.)

Even if they had wrote the idea that the weeks were seperate and that it was counted as a seperate competition in the rules, which they have not, it still breaks the rules by giving out two prizes to the same winner when specified they should only be elligible to recieve one.

Thats two prizes, clearly against the rules of the competition even if they somehow allow someone to win twice. Winning twice would'nt matter as much if they only got one prize from it, but nope, they get two prizes and two chances to win a gold mask.

Also... for something chosen by judges, you think they'd be kind enough not to allow someone to win multiple times considering it makes it incredibly unfair on other entrants. Whats to stop emsa408 from winning a third or fourth time... nothing

(Also despite Lego mentioning the facebook entires have been seen... we still have no winning Facebook entries and its week 3... so thats 18 winners from twitter and instagram only)

I've voiced most of my complaints about the MOC contest before, even on here, but some of my complaints or criticisms aren't airable because of my NDA role. It is what it is.

Ok, that explains it

Edited April 22, 2015 by Scarilian

[Leewan]

Thats two prizes, clearly against the rules of the competition even if they somehow allow someone to win twice.

I think what they mean is that you can only have one prize a week, and not only one for the whole competition. So if you enter with six different masks in the same week and you win with more than one mask, you'll still get only one prize.

Anyways, I don't really understand why you're so concerned about that, it's a competition organized by Lego, what did you expect ?

[Pate-keetongu]

They are giving stuff away free, so they can naturally give it to who ever they want. They don't owe anything to anyone. It's just an another social media raffle.

[Leewan]

Got some new info on Bionifigs, thanks to Piruk : a graphic novel will be released on November 24. 7,99$, 80 pages. And we know thanks to the Kindle edition that the Chapter Book will be titled "Island of Lost Masks".