Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Meiko]

Last I checked GregF only writes the books/comics for themes, but he has no association with the general story of the themes he has worked on. He is only allowed to work with the material given but nothing outside of that.

From what I know, that's pretty much correct. The story behind a theme is generally something that I believe set designers and product managers come up with while designing the theme and the sets.

[Freddy Bricker]

Last I checked GregF only writes the books/comics for themes, but he has no association with the general story of the themes he has worked on. He is only allowed to work with the material given but nothing outside of that. Personally If I was in TLG, I would have had GregF work on the backstory for themes as HF books were the only backstory in HF that actually had story depth. Point is I hope (if true) that this new theme has a story that has more depth than HF but not as complicated as Bionicle. That way everyone wins.

Indeed, a borderline between complicated and simple would justify any new theme. At first, The Lego Group did way too much for Bionicle's story, and now Hero Factory is just Kindergarten play. Honestly, I think they should stop trying to take things to extremes and find decent place between:

"I don't get it"

and

"This is boring"

[Dorek]

Greg was slightly more involved with BIONICLE (where there was frequent communication between all of the different players), but that about sums it up for Hero Factory.

Part of the reason for Hero Factory's "simplicity" (and likely the reason the books didn't sell all that well) is because it just has a different core audience. The TV episodes really sum up the type of people they cater to, which is why they're a fairly constant presence.

A new theme could have a more mature storyline, or it could just as easily not. Whatever gets the job done of selling the sets.

[vexorian]

I just read this: http://www.newelementary.com/2013/12/new-legends.html

Now I think that LEGO *must* scrap/rework Hero HF and replace with a new theme/reboot that uses the small ball joints.

[Kalhiki]

Considering the new, small ball joints have been in development for 6 years, I imagine they have big plans for 'em. And to me, Constraction seems like the perfect place to integrate them.

[bacem]

as long as they didn't end up completely replacing CCBS with bricks when using those mini ball-joint, i see no problem.

[Gatanui]

I just read this: http://www.newelemen...ew-legends.html

Now I think that LEGO *must* scrap/rework Hero HF and replace with a new theme/reboot that uses the small ball joints.

I think they've spent way too much time and money developing the HF building system to replace it just like that.

-Gata

[vexorian]

But many of the work put in HF building system seems to have been applied in the new joints or vice versa. The most important part of the HF system seems to be the ball cups that seem to not ever break, the new small ball cups seem to reuse the concept.

What I am thinking about is the HF system with small balls.

[Shakar]

I think the CCBS and the Mixel joints are supposed to be meant for different things.

CCBS is a system on its own, designed as the definitive, universal system to create buildable action figures.

Mixels seems more like a support for classic System, to be used when the standard ball joints would be too big- an extension/evolution of the bricks with in-built ball joints introduced (IIRC) in 2007. Mixel pieces fuse with System far better than the classic ball joint system, this is why Lego decided to push them so much.

So, I don't think Mixels will ever replace ball joints. They exist for different purposes.

[vexorian]

We can have the CCBS system in lower scale and get the best of both worlds. LEGO really care about inter-system compatibility. I really hope the future involves something like this.

HF is cool, but I survived moving on from Bionicle to HF, I can survive another change if the new system is so cool.

[Timeline15]

To be honest, I would hate to see bricks replace the constraction system (either BIONICLE's or Hero Factory's)I don't moc with system, so the pieces (which are half the incentive for me to buy sets these days) would have little use to me. Also, attempting to be compatible with system bricks would lead to an overly blocky feel, at least on a base level. The Mixels looked OK, but at the end of the day were still limited system sets. I much prefer the Buildable action figures continuing to focus on being Technic-compatible, not System-compatible.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Timeline15

[Leewan]

Both system could (and will, at least next year) coexist. I would like to see a new constraction theme based upon Mixel joints together with HF in 2015. We would get two constraction themes, but based upon two very different systems (well, they do have in common the balljoint/ballcup thing, but beside that, many things differ).

Edited December 20, 2013 by Leewan

[Aanchir]

I agree that a constraction theme, even a Technic-based constraction theme, would be entirely possible using the Mixels joints. There's no reason that the LEGO Group couldn't design Technic elements based on ball joints this size — in fact, they have already done so. The only things that don't exist currently are Technic parts with the new ball cup design.

With that said, I don't know if it could replace the CCBS. There are a lot of things the CCBS gains from its scale, things that I don't think the new ball cups could really match. For instance, these beams each have a ball with guides centered on the beam, with a Technic pin hole running through the center. This is something that the smaller balls used in the Legend Beasts and Mixels will never be able to imitate, whether in Technic or System — they're just too small for any meaningful additional connection points to be added to the ball itself. The structural integrity of the part would be compromised.

Naturally, there are some of these advantages of the CCBS that MOCists and designers alike could do without. After all, we did without them for about twelve years before this building system was even introduced. It could also be argued that we have ALREADY seen functionality in constraction sets decrease with no ill effects plenty of times. The Slizer, Roboriders, and Toa Mata sets all had this unique piece in which the ball joint connection could "lock" onto an axle. After this part was retired, no other part was ever introduced to restore this functionality. Still, I think some of these useful features of the CCBS are more valuable than any of those that we've lost over the years.

I do not think the CCBS and the Ø10.2mm ball on which it is based are going anywhere anytime soon. But at the same time, it is entirely possible that a new constraction theme could emerge based on the smaller Ø5.9mm ball and ball cup. Or that a constraction theme could emerge using BOTH styles of ball cup, though I doubt that — a video of a workshop involving ADVANCE and the Hero Factory design team had multiple sizes of ball joint listed on a post-it note under the strongly-worded heading "How to f*** up the building system", along with other ideas like "New Shell System" and "No fun elements". In any case, there's no rule that there can only be one action figure building style at a time.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Aanchir

[coolkwins]

Personally, I think that these minifigures are just a little side concept, sort of like the Bionicle minifigures.

Hero Factory should around for a couple of years, wiht both action figures and these minifigure sets.

[DraikNova]

The Mixel system seems like it would work best if applied the same way it is now: making System models more complicated, rather than making the core of the build out of it.

Anyway, a lot of posts seem to complain that HF is too simple and the lack of follow-up to the "Villain Factory" is a problem, but do we actually know how much time has passed in-story? Setting up a large company would take at least a year or two, more if you're trying to do so secretly, and the amount of time that passes between two story arcs seems to be minimal: Rise of the rookies and Ordeal of fire are speculated to have only a few months at most between them, and are themselves resolved within about a week or two.

[Aanchir]

The Mixel system seems like it would work best if applied the same way it is now: making System models more complicated, rather than making the core of the build out of it.

Anyway, a lot of posts seem to complain that HF is too simple and the lack of follow-up to the "Villain Factory" is a problem, but do we actually know how much time has passed in-story? Setting up a large company would take at least a year or two, more if you're trying to do so secretly, and the amount of time that passes between two story arcs seems to be minimal: Rise of the rookies and Ordeal of fire are speculated to have only a few months at most between them, and are themselves resolved within about a week or two.

Well, from an in-universe perspective, the lack of immediate follow-up isn't a big deal. But from a storytelling perspective, it makes a much bigger difference. The longer you wait to follow up on an unresolved plot thread, the more fans from back then will lose interest in the theme, and the more new fans will join who weren't around to witness the setup. It was AMAZINGLY ambitious and risky of BIONICLE to wait until 2008 to reveal the answer to its biggest mystery, the true nature of the Great Spirit Mata Nui, and even in that case, the mystery was kept fresh by keeping the Great Spirit a central element of the story in each and every story year. That's a lot different from establishing a mystery/cliffhanger and then not even mentioning it for two years or longer.

Not saying I mind the style of storytelling generally used in Hero Factory. It's neat to get a brand-new adventure each year, especially when they let the story dabble in tropes that wouldn't have been applicable to previous story arcs. But at the same time, the story has its share of weaknesses, and the failure to follow up on the mild cliffhanger in "Breakout" in a timely manner is certainly one of them. Only time will tell if that ending WILL be resolved, and if it will have as much of an impact as if it had been resolved more promptly.

[Infernum]

I will be eternally disappointed if Hero Factory ends without any explanation of Goriz.

[BrickBuilder3213]

Goriz? Who or what is Goriz?

[Vinyl Scratch]

Goriz? Who or what is Goriz?

Shop updated one day and in the Hero Factory description they mentioned a "Goriz" as a villain. Thing is, none of the villains have that name nor anything close to it, and it isn't anything close to any Gorilla tribe Chima set.

[BrickBuilder3213]

Shop updated one day and in the Hero Factory description they mentioned a "Goriz" as a villain. Thing is, none of the villains have that name nor anything close to it, and it isn't anything close to any Gorilla tribe Chima set.

So that may be our "Dark Maker" villan, perhaps? -w-

[Shakar]

Oh yeah I remember that Goriz.

My guess is that he was supposed to be released in summer 2013 as the big bad, but his set was axed. Explains why we got only 7 sets.

[ZORK64]

I doubt that the Mixel joints will replace the HF building system as a new constraction line. The Mixel joints are clearly supposed to make small-scaled, poseable brick-built creatures easier/possible, and not to ultimately replaced the constraction scale.

I wouldn't be totally surprised though if TLG would make also a TECHNIC piece with the new ball cup design, which would make it easier for the Mixel joints to blend into the aesthetics of TECHNIC and Hero Factory, opening the potential to incorporate Mixel joints for details or smaller limbs into HF sets.

But well, only time will tell...

[Aanchir]

My guess is that Goriz was just a preliminary name for an existing set, plain and simple. Same as some of the names that appeared in background graphics in the 2011 retailer's catalog. WHICH set is a complete mystery, but it doesn't entirely matter.

I don't think it'd be a cancelled set, since that stage of the process would have taken place long before the writing of LEGO shop blurbs.

[bacem]

I doubt that the Mixel joints will replace the HF building system as a new constraction line. The Mixel joints are clearly supposed to make small-scaled, poseable brick-built creatures easier/possible, and not to ultimately replaced the constraction scale.

I wouldn't be totally surprised though if TLG would make also a TECHNIC piece with the new ball cup design, which would make it easier for the Mixel joints to blend into the aesthetics of TECHNIC and Hero Factory, opening the potential to incorporate Mixel joints for details or smaller limbs into HF sets.

But well, only time will tell...

that would be great. they probably can produce hands or paws with ball-joint finger connection

[ZORK64]

that would be great. they probably can produce hands or paws with ball-joint finger connection

Ho ho, that's a pretty awesome idea, didn't even thought of something like this at first.

My first thought in this direction was a T-Rex, using the HF bones for his legs (and most other points of articulation) and the Mixel joints for his puny arms.

Or an insect monster who's antennas and mandibles use the smaller joints.