Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Tahu]

Because in the end, it didn't matter to us to know where they got their masks. Or the fact that the Toa Nuva went to Artakha even. The thing you got was that they got adaptive armour, and that's why they changed. it didn't matter who gave it to them or why, you didn't really need that to understand the story.

Finally someone, who understands the real meaning of Bionicle!

It's not about the endless story arc and books!

It's about enjoying the sets you have and maybe even playing with them!

Like most other countries had only a minimal info about the story in the Gen 1 and they were fine with it! They didn't even need more info than they got right then. Unfortunately I see that the fandom is now mostly only about complaning about the sets and wanting more and more imfos about stories.

Is there anyone who remembers what "imagination" means?

Building up your own story without book and comics. It doesn't have to be canon when it is yours! And with that, you will have the power the rebuild the Bionicle Universe, to not to be how is was before, but to be better!

Edited August 27, 2015 by Tahu

[Iben]

Finally someone, who understands the real meaning of Bionicle!

It's not about the endless story arc and books!

It's about enjoying the sets you have and maybe even playing with them!

Like most other countries had only a minimal info about the story in the Gen 1 and they were fine with it! They didn't even need more info than they got right then. Unfortunately I see that the fandom is now mostly only about complaning about the sets and wanting more and more imfos about stories.

Is there anyone who remembers what "imagination" means?

Building up your own story without book and comics. It doesn't have to be canon when it is yours! And with that, you will have the power the rebuild the Bionicle Universe, to not to be how is was before, but to be better!

Sorry to disappoint you, but I don't entirely agree with that. You see, I'm not saying that that part of the story was pointless or that it had to be left open for imagination. It could sure, but it's not wrong to do it either.

What I meant is that you should make a distinction between the overall grand storyline which doesn't need to be fleshed out at all for people to get it, and the fleshing up of individual year-storylines, which do benefit from those extras. The key is to make a story where the extra information in each year-storyline makes you bound to the characters and the setting of the overall story, but without that info being necessary to go onto the next wave. It's do-able, in my opinion Bionicle was capable of doing that, but it got harder every year, that's obvious.

For instance, the tidbits on Mahri Nui for instance had no effect on the overall grand storyline, did nothing to make it more complex or harder to follow at all, but it did give people a chance to connect to that location. And that was perfectly fine really. It won't needlessly make things complex so new people can't jump in. It seriously won't.

I do have a problem with people who often "complain" about people not liking certain sets. Yes, sometimes the complaints are unreasonable. But often, those complaints are quite reasonable and well thought out. Some of the criticism on the Skull Warriors does seem very valid to me. But that's not really important, because individual people have individual tastes and it's perfectly fine that people say they don't like a certain set. It's fine and no-one should ever feel like they're being wrong because they don't like something. If you can back it up with reasonable explanation or can just stop at " I don't really like it personally", then you should be fine and there shouldn't be others who complain about that. I honestly disagree with the idea that people are constantly complaining about the sets, there are just a lot of different people out there, and it's more than normal that everyone has some set she/he doesn't really like that much. That's just as normal as people who like all the sets. People are allowed to be vocal about their opinions on the sets, even if they're just prelims or leaks tbh.

-Iben

[MakutaOfWar]

Having all of these 2015 sets in hand, it's making me look back at HF and think-"Wow, my expectations for those sets were fairly low." Not that I dislike them, I mean there were some really amazing sets throughout the years, but compared to G2 Bionicle? The large majority of HF can't match the new sstandards in my opinion. Well, probably going to scrap quite a few for MoCs and shelf space.

[Frozen Assasin]

Here was an opinion

Edited August 27, 2015 by Frozen Assasin

[Voxovan]

Yup...and it's an epic fail. Tell me, when did you last read a good Bionicle fanfic ? Or watched a good Bionicle (fan) video ? Or, hell, participated in a good Bionicle project ? I, personally, don't remember it. There are several people out there who continue to produce fanfics and MOCs and stuff, but they are in the minority. Most of us have pushed Bionicle to the second plane for other lines/hobbys. Me, personally - comics and movies. My Lego buyings are steadily declining each year and I know why. And the only thing that kept me going trough the "wilderness (wink-wink to DW fans) " years, were the books, the Q&A with Farshtey (despite him and BZP growing steadily crazy as the years went buy) and the endless discussions with other fans on other fan-forums. And then, in june 2014, we got a blurred image and soon thereafter the return of Bionicle. And...it sucked. It was simple, streamlined as f*%k and targeted to younger kids.

So, we asked ourselves. Why did it suck ? Because of it's streamlining. It was simple and basic. No extra masks, no hints to show us that there was something "out there". No various colors of Kanohi (now just Masks), no fleshing out of the universe with animals and such, no new language, no games that showed us the uniqueness of each inhabitant. They showed us everything from the very beginning and didn't leave room for imagination.

You want us to imagine something into a universe that is already dead-locked. So, that is the reason why we want books - because if they don't leave room for our imagination, they have to invent something themselves - which ,as of now, they are incapable of doing.

Even HF had left us more room for imagination - just look at LegoJang and everything what he has created.

That is like... no true at all.

[Frozen Assasin]

Well, it is my opinion and you can agree or disagree with it.

[Tahu]

Okay well it is my opinion, too bad I thought there was someone who understands it. But This fandom went totally off topic. No wonder why was it so easy for ome person to fool you all! And that is what I call an Epic fail.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Tahu

[Shakar]

Having all of these 2015 sets in hand, it's making me look back at HF and think-"Wow, my expectations for those sets were fairly low." Not that I dislike them, I mean there were some really amazing sets throughout the years, but compared to G2 Bionicle? The large majority of HF can't match the new sstandards in my opinion. Well, probably going to scrap quite a few for MoCs and shelf space.

All in all I think HF did its jobs (covering for BIONICLE's absence, introducing CCBS, paving the way for G2) fairly well. The G2 sets feel like they're on another level thanks to the gearboxes (more complex and thicker builds), the masks and the other new pieces, but they wouldn't be so good if Lego didn't experiment with HF first. I think it's a mix of aquired experience and a more ambitious attitude (since HF was always "just there" while Lego is clearly betting more on BIONICLE).

[Logan McOwen]

Psst, hey, Frozen Assassin:

If G2 isn't to your taste, there's only one thing you can do about it; Not fund it. If enough people of a similar mindset to yourself do the same, TLG will likely make a change. Otherwise, it's gonna be the same thing that you've rather prematurely deemed to be bad... f o r e v e r . . .

Or you could just not participate in discussion on G2 if all you're going to be is negative. It can't be fun for you to be so negative, surely? I mean, it's certainly no fun for us.

Edited August 27, 2015 by LewiMOC

[Fulcrumfan91]

Got a question - am I the only one who's not buying the MMvSG ?

Nope, I'm not either. The only part about the set I really like is Ekimu, I think he's a really spiffy looking protector. Otherwise, skip for me.

Edited August 27, 2015 by lambda_cla3391

[arc]

*Super long snip*

While I don't want to start with g1 vs g2 again, there are a couple points I'd like to mention:

"Simple,streamlined as f*%k" correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume you mean bionicle using ccbs. Which I'll admit to being hesitant at first, but they really are far more complex than early bionicle. Compare a protector to any matoran build from g1, and you'll see they're really not that simple just because they're not covered in pistons. But of course it's my opinion.

"Targeted towards younger kids" exactly. Lego is a kids toy first wether we like it or not.

"No extra masks" this one confuses me, every toa set has an elemental mask, golden mask, and skull spider mask. And all the other sets have at least 2 masks in each.

And one thing I never got was the argument that you can't imagine something because there's already canon in place. So what? If I wanna pretend that jaller is a guitar ace from outer space and gets together to play metal shows every week, what's the big deal? It may be ridiculous, but is Greg Farshety gonna show up at my door and say, "you're not following the story right" and take my bonkles away? No. To me anyway the point of lego is that you can build your own characters, story, and most importantly mocs. But again, just my opinion.

[Fulcrumfan91]

Yup...and it's an epic fail. Tell me, when did you last read a good Bionicle fanfic ? Or watched a good Bionicle (fan) video ? Or, hell, participated in a good Bionicle project ? I, personally, don't remember it. There are several people out there who continue to produce fanfics and MOCs and stuff, but they are in the minority. Most of us have pushed Bionicle to the second plane for other lines/hobbys. Me, personally - comics and movies. My Lego buyings are steadily declining each year and I know why. And the only thing that kept me going trough the "wilderness (wink-wink to DW fans) " years, were the books, the Q&A with Farshtey (despite him and BZP growing steadily crazy as the years went buy) and the endless discussions with other fans on other fan-forums. And then, in june 2014, we got a blurred image and soon thereafter the return of Bionicle. And...it sucked. It was simple, streamlined as f*%k and targeted to younger kids.

So, we asked ourselves. Why did it suck ? Because of it's streamlining. It was simple and basic. No extra masks, no hints to show us that there was something "out there". No various colors of Kanohi (now just Masks), no fleshing out of the universe with animals and such, no new language, no games that showed us the uniqueness of each inhabitant. They showed us everything from the very beginning and didn't leave room for imagination.

You want us to imagine something into a universe that is already dead-locked. So, that is the reason why we want books - because if they don't leave room for our imagination, they have to invent something themselves - which ,as of now, they are incapable of doing.

Even HF had left us more room for imagination - just look at LegoJang and everything what he has created.

Wait..WHAT? You think G2 is bad??!? Because of the story?!?! I heavily disagree with you on that. G2 is like....LEGO proving how innovative a toy company is. The story isn't as complex as it was before, sure....but there are other things in it which I like a little more than the G1 story (although that one was great). If you don't like the sets...just don't buy them. That's more saddening to hear for me, that someone thinks G2 may be worse than the originals. I totally disagree.

"No extra masks" this one confuses me, every toa set has an elemental mask, golden mask, and skull spider mask. And all the other sets have at least 2 masks in each.

I think he means you don't have all those kanohi that you can collect for the Toa this time.

[GK733]

Well, it is my opinion and you can agree or disagree with it.

Then your opinion is based on a very vague information.

We indeed have same masks in multiple colors, language and hints of Makuta's presence, past of the toa (a thing we can hopefully look for after 2017) and of Okoto's past, even the fact that the protectors used the mask of time to summon the toa means that there is a change to get a set wearing it. There are tons of stuff we can look up to.

And no, there is place for imagination, for example the toa traveled for weeks to find their golden masks, what if Lewa encountered a biomechanic tiger on the way? Or Gali found herself almost eaten by a shark?

[Voxovan]

Well, it is my opinion and you can agree or disagree with it.

It's not my opinion. Those are facts. There are still many great Bionicle fanfics (the last one I've read was finished two or three months ago, the other ones I read are still being written), some of them even take place in the G2 storyline. There is still a lot of people who make MOCs and write fanfics, I guess you've never browsed the Bionicle tag on pages like deviantart or tumblr lol. Heck, even here MOCs are posted quite often. Okay, things are different with the fanfics, they aren't as common, but that's because coming up and writing a good story is a hard work, and a lot of people simply can't do that - not because the universe they want their story to take place in doesn't allow for enough imagination, but because of their lack of skills.

It was simple, streamlined as f*%k and targeted to younger kids.

Yes, the new Bionicle is aimed towards kids. Because, here comes a surprise: it's a toyline :O

So, we asked ourselves. Why did it suck ? Because of it's streamlining. It was simple and basic. No extra masks, no hints to show us that there was something "out there". No various colors of Kanohi (now just Masks), no fleshing out of the universe with animals and such, no new language, no games that showed us the uniqueness of each inhabitant. They showed us everything from the very beginning and didn't leave room for imagination.

You want us to imagine something into a universe that is already dead-locked. So, that is the reason why we want books - because if they don't leave room for our imagination, they have to invent something themselves - which ,as of now, they are incapable of doing.

No, they didn't show us everything - that's why the new universe isn't "dead-locked". The old universe was dead-locked and had less space for imagination - it's not like I'm saying that it was impossible to make your own stories in it, but the new world is much more open. No element-tied genders. No element-tied colours. Basically, no rules. Yes, Okoto isn't really filled with animals or other, well, stuff - but that's where imagination comes to play, you have to fill in the world with your own ideas. There are no rules which tell you what you can and what you can't do. Unlike in G1 times - you want your Toa character to be male and have Lighting element? Too bad, Toa of Lighting can only be female. You want your Toa to be the member of Order of Mata Nui? Too bad, Toa can't be members of Order of Mata Nui. And so on. I mean, of course, you could screw the rules, but then - why were there any rules in the first place?

Because we know so little (yet) about the new world, we don't know the Okoto Islanders customs or what exaclty happened during Toa's quest for Golden Masks, we can fill in those gaps ourselves. We have now more options to create our own Bionicle world, more options to be creative - and that's what Lego is all about.

You praise (well, maybe not praise, but you get my point) Hero Factory for leaving more room for imagination - but... we knew even less about its universe than we do about the new Bionicle one, and yet you criticize Bionicle G2 for not leaving room for imagination because its world is not enough "filled in". That... makes no sense.

[Frozen Assasin]

Okay. And BTW - the story is bad, not the sets. Kopaka G2 (who I have standing on my shelf, next to Kopaka Nuva) is far better than any of the previous incarnations. The story...it is just so childish. It has no epic in it, no mystery. They immediately show us what the bad guy is like and they release the major good guy in the first year of the wave. Maybe it's different, maybe it is better (in your opinion) but it is that I want to flesh it out more, to make it more "adult", like the original Bionicle was.

@LewiMoc

I (and people like me) are in the minority, so the "vote with your wallet" thing-y will not work immediatly. And BTW - I just said my opinion. I'm not that negative.

And okay - I understood that you guys do not support my opinion. Please let it go.

off do delete my opinion no-one shares.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Frozen Assasin

[mysteriouspi]

Yes, the new Bionicle is aimed towards kids. Because, here comes a surprise: it's a toyline :O

I feel like people forget or ignore this too often.

In regards to "less developed storyline in Gen 2," my impression is (not a fact, but my impression) TLG went all-out on BIONICLE in it's early years because it was one of their last attempts to pull themselves from financial ruin. They had to invest a lot in BIONICLE in order to get maximum potential out of the line.

Obviously it worked. Now TLG is an empire built on toys. They don't need to pour as many resources into the new BIONICLE to save themselves, so they don't. Maybe it lacks complexity, maybe it's not the BIONICLE we all remember, but that's ok. Reason why?

Because if we prefer Gen 1, we can choose to care about that. It's not gone; whole websites are still dedicated to it. If we prefer Gen 2, we can choose to care about that. If you like BIONICLE but both official runs have little to your liking, make your own universe and story. We as humans are not limited by "reality" so we can twist and warp other people's stories as much as we want (provided we don't try to sell things, haha). Point is, there's so much for us to choose from, and we can all follow whichever storylines we want.

(Sorry for rambling post. Not trying to attack or argue with anyone in particular, just expressing thoughts I've had for a while)

[Fulcrumfan91]

Okay. And BTW - the story is bad, not the sets. Kopaka G2 (who I have standing on my shelf, next to Kopaka Nuva) is far better than any of the previous incarnations. The story...it is just so childish. It has no epic in it, no mystery. They immediately show us what the bad guy is like and they release the major good guy in the first year of the wave. Maybe it's different, maybe it is better (in your opinion) but it is that I want to flesh it out more, to make it more "adult", like the original Bionicle was.

K, don't delete your opinion. That's not what forums are for...ostracizing someone for a different view. Also, I'd argue the story isn't as simple as you say it is...it's less complicated for children, that is definitely for sure..but there are still some good elements I've seen that change from the original story. First of all, there is no 'Great Spirit' or divine figure in the G2 universe. That was something that always kind of bugged me from G1....it was all centred around Mata Nui and the quest to awaken him or save him. No, this time, we've gotten a much more....practical? approach to the story. Two brothers, mask makers, usual types (in that they look kind of like protectors) are the ones at odds with one another. I'd like to know why Makuta does what he does, other than being jealous...also we have no idea what else there is to say about him. Skull villains...I have not read the books, so I have no idea what's going on with them. The new Toa are more human...which I like. The originals had a bit too much of a superhuman feel to them...these guys feel more like ordinary people who are trying to make a difference...and they have flaws. Kopaka is trying not to look weak; Tahu does things before he thinks, but really courageous; Lewa is a show-off and it gets him into trouble often; Gali is as I remember her...except for the bad jokes part...but I think it's funny; Onua is supposed to be the wisest...though I'm not a fan of his voice in the animation..still, he's the lovable giant; and Pohatu is the most different from his original...he's very rough on the outside, but I have a feeling we'll see deeper into him later on in the series. I like it.

Edited August 27, 2015 by lambda_cla3391

[Jetrax99]

So, any news on if we are getting the villain pack anywhere outside Russia?

[Bigger Fish]

Here was an opinion

Mind if I submit your tirade to the Lunacy of Lego Man values blog? They haven't had much material in the past few months.

[Dorek]

So, any news on if we are getting the villain pack anywhere outside Russia?

Not yet. General hopefulness pegs it as an October GWP because Halloween or something. At the very least it's not September, so we'll find out whether or not it's October in the next few days.

[mysteriouspi]

Not yet. General hopefulness pegs it as an October GWP because Halloween or something. At the very least it's not September, so we'll find out whether or not it's October in the next few days.

I hope so. Can only hold out on Warrior and Basher for so long. Not that I need a gold Skull mask, but since I'm getting into MOCing now, the more the merrier.

Edited August 27, 2015 by mysteriouspi

[TheOneVeyronian]

As it turns out, I found some Villain Packs on eBay for £10 (or best offer), and free postage. When I last looked they still had a few. Apparently in the UK (my country) but it lists the postage as "services from outside the UK" and won't be delivered until mid October, so I'm naturally cautious.

Question is: should I risk/go for it, or hold out to see if it ends up being a GWP somewhere? I know it's definitely not a GWP in September anywhere, I've seen the European store newsletter for September and it's not shown there. But it might be an October or November GWP, who knows.

[Fulcrumfan91]

As it turns out, I found some Villain Packs on eBay for £10 (or best offer), and free postage. When I last looked they still had a few. Apparently in the UK (my country) but it lists the postage as "services from outside the UK" and won't be delivered until mid October, so I'm naturally cautious.

Question is: should I risk/go for it, or hold out to see if it ends up being a GWP somewhere? I know it's definitely not a GWP in September anywhere, I've seen the European store newsletter for September and it's not shown there. But it might be an October or November GWP, who knows.

I'd say hold out.

[Aanchir]

I think it's extremely unlikely that the "villain pack" will not be released anywhere else. At this point I feel it's just a question of where and when.

[DraikNova]

One complaint I've never understood about CCBS is how the shells make sets look to organic. If you're going to be making a robot, especially one that needs to stay working for thousands or millions of years as in G1 Bionicle, it needs an outer shell to protect the mechanisms from debris and dirt. Otherwise the whole thing will experience a failure in its gearbox within a month or two of intensive use. For something that moves around as much as a humanoid being, that may be too high an estimate.