Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[mysteriouspi]

als now that we have confirmation that these beings are indeed cyborgs/biomechanical i am curious to their reason. like we knew the MU and its inhabitants were just nanites for the great spirit explaining why they are artificial so wonder what the protectors and masters were made for to be artificial.

Rule of Cool. Besides, BIONICLE characters were biomechanical before, makes sense that they are now as well. I doubt it says anything about why they exist this time around.

Do we have a trustworthy source about BIONICLE's current state? In other words, is it really selling that well?

I'm going to say "no we don't" because that's TLG's internal information. We as fans see subjective interpretations of "how well" the sets are selling. So we're not the best judges.

That being said, my impression is that the line is doing fine. Gen 2 does not need the same huge profit margins of Gen 1 to be "good." As long as we appreciate and enjoy it, it is good.

[Phoenix_Flare]

Well, the Bionicle Website got some new art for the City of The Mask Makers! It's pretty EPIC!

off topic: 100the post! whoooooo! Got Skull Sclicer too! just need Skull Basher and six more Skull Warriors and one more Skull Scorpio. Then my army will almost be complete...

Edited September 2, 2015 by Phoenix_Flare

[TheDesuComplex]

I'm going to say "no we don't" because that's TLG's internal information. We as fans see subjective interpretations of "how well" the sets are selling. So we're not the best judges.

That being said, my impression is that the line is doing fine. Gen 2 does not need the same huge profit margins of Gen 1 to be "good." As long as we appreciate and enjoy it, it is good.

Lego has just released a financial document detailing strong growth in the first half of the year. Sadly, Bionicle is not mentioned, but it is good to see that Lego is doing well.

[Mandate]

The lack of a BIONICLE mention is very... interesting. I had expected BIONICLE to be a smash hit, but if it had been it surely would have been mentioned. Still, best to wait for direct confirmation about G2 in particular before assuming anything.

[TwistLaw]

Lego has just released a financial document detailing strong growth in the first half of the year. Sadly, Bionicle is not mentioned, but it is good to see that Lego is doing well.

Sooooo, it's basically confirmed that BIONICLE is (and will be? ) a second tier property for LEGO. Thanks everything 2008-onward for ruining constraction's reputation :/

[Quisoves Pugnat]

Sooooo, it's basically confirmed that BIONICLE is (and will be? ) a second tier property for LEGO.

To reiterate what the Chir brothers often point out, it is not 2001. In 2001, BIONICLE was both novel and a diamond in a financial rough. Now, constraction has been around for sixteen years, BIONICLE is fourteen years old, and LEGO's System themes actually sell quite well. Constraction is, and always has been, niche. Never has there been more than one independent constraction theme at a time (okay, there were Galidor and Knights Kingdom, but they were a different flavor of constraction, the former a cul-de-sac, the latter's system surviving only through System sets.)

Thanks everything 2008-onward for ruining constraction's reputation :/

If constraction were unpopular, LEGO wouldn't be making it, no? That flagship System themes like Chima, Nexo Knights, Superheroes, and Star Wars (that goldmine of goldmines) have constraction supplements suggests that the latter building-system has gained in popularity.

Edited September 2, 2015 by Quisoves Pugnat

[Frozen Assasin]

Just looked at the art for the month of stone... Frack, why can't they properly fund one of their flagship series and give us animations that have a level of quality comparable to n this one...

[CabooseBM]

Because that art style is nowhere near conducive to animation?

[Quisoves Pugnat]

Just looked at the art for the month of stone... Frack, why can't they properly fund one of their flagship series and give us animations that have a level of quality comparable to n this one...

Be reasonable. If it were economical for a TV-series to employ animation of that quality, it would be all the rage. Considering that these are shorts of no more than two minutes in length, it seems especially impractical for LEGO to pay that much for them.

[TwistLaw]

If constraction were unpopular, LEGO wouldn't be making it, no? That flagship System themes like Chima, Nexo Knights, Superheroes, and Star Wars (that goldmine of goldmines) have constraction supplements suggests that the latter building-system has gained in popularity.

Something doesn't need to be popular in order to be produced, it's enough it does what it has to do. Funnily enough, this is what we've been told about Hero Factory during the last four years: it sell what it has to sell. Doesn't sound promising, does it? CCBS being used in other (extremely popular) themes is more an attempt by LEGO to make profitable something they've spent quite some money into. Besides, CCBS looks more or less the same in all of its appearances (the SW sets introduce like three new pieces heads aside).

[Aanchir]

Because that art style is nowhere near conducive to animation?

Particularly for a free web series. You know, a series that we're not paying for and LEGO is. Even in G1, we never got webisodes as intricately detailed as these paintings. The most "cinematic" web videos we ever got were

, and the years we got those they were only able to give us one per wave (as opposed to a series that tells a complete story).

Something doesn't need to be popular in order to be produced, it's enough it does what it has to do. Funnily enough, this is what we've been told about Hero Factory during the last four years: it sell what it has to sell. Doesn't sound promising, does it? CCBS being used in other (extremely popular) themes is more an attempt by LEGO to make profitable something they've spent quite some money into. Besides, CCBS looks more or less the same in all of its appearances (the SW sets introduce like three new pieces heads aside).

It's LEGO. The whole point of it is using the same parts in different ways to create different models, not creating over a dozen new parts for every six sets.

And LEGO doesn't use CCBS in other themes to increase the building system's profits, they do it to increase those themes' profits by expanding them into the action figure market. I'm sure by now, five years in, the CCBS has already paid for itself many times over, particularly since it can continue using the same foundation of basic parts wave after wave, like how all LEGO building systems are supposed to work.

Edited September 2, 2015 by Aanchir

[Quisoves Pugnat]

Something doesn't need to be popular in order to be produced, it's enough it does what it has to do.

It does. This is a fundamental principle of economics: Supply and demand. What a product has to do is sell, and if it's not popular, it won't. There is a middle ground between "smash hit" and "abysmal failure."

Funnily enough, this is what we've been told about Hero Factory during the last four years: it sell what it has to sell. Doesn't sound promising, does it?

Generating enough sales to merit continued production sounds promising to me.

CCBS being used in other (extremely popular) themes is more an attempt by LEGO to make profitable something they've spent quite some money into.

If this is the case, why didn't LEGO let Hero Factory die without a replacement and simply continue CCBS as an extension of certain System themes?

Also, I should like to point out that the Chima Ultrabuilds were part of the first year of Chima (ditto Nexo Knights.) LEGO had no guarantee that Chima was going to be successful when the Ultrabuilds were given the green-light.

Besides, CCBS looks more or less the same in all of its appearances (the SW sets introduce like three new pieces heads aside).

It still costs money to make. Why spend money on a failed system? Besides, the sameness is part of its whole ethos. It works well enough for System.

Also, I'm hardly an expert on these things, but the wording of the news item suggests to me that the absence of a mention of BIONICLE may in part be due its odd position as a returning theme:

Lines such as LEGO City, LEGO Creator, LEGO Technic, and LEGO Star Wars™ continue to deliver very strong global results. LEGO NINJAGO™, which has become an evergreen LEGO theme, also performed strongly, while new launches such as LEGO Elves and LEGO Jurassic World™ products were received very positively by children all over the world.

The first five are evergreens, while the last two are new. BIONICLE is not currently an evergreen, nor is it strictly new.

One more thing: Friends isn't mentioned in that report, and it's currently in its fourth year.

[Phoenix_Flare]

Well, the Bionicle Website got some new art for the City of The Mask Makers! It's pretty EPIC!

DID ANYONE SEE THIS!? Come on... I have a voice too you know...

[Kalhiki]

DID ANYONE SEE THIS!? Come on... I have a voice too you know...

No need to get upset *pats you on the back*

Though I imagine it got overlooked since it was already posted on the previous page. ;)

[TwistLaw]

It's LEGO. The whole point of it is using the same parts in different ways to create different models, not creating over a dozen new parts for every six sets.

And LEGO doesn't use CCBS in other themes to increase the building system's profits, they do it to increase those themes' profits by expanding them into the action figure market. I'm sure by now, five years in, the CCBS has already paid for itself many times over, particularly since it can continue using the same foundation of basic parts wave after wave, like how all LEGO building systems are supposed to work.

The problem is that CCBS is something completely different from bricks, go ask any AFOL out there. Jeez, they didn't even want the CCBS Star Wars thread in their own section.

If you compare this year's Skyhopper and the Wookie Gunship, it's quiete clear we have two completely different sets in front of us. But if you do the same thing with most HF sets until IFB, especially heroes, well... this year is probably the first one where we have a wide and creative use of CCBS, and that's why I've begun liking the system.

Action figures are much harder to make distinguishable from each other, unlike bricks. G1, while being embarrassingly full of clones, gave us a much wider visual difference in its first four years than CCBS did. I don't really wanna be that guy, but guess which one of the two sold "what it had to sell" and which one changed toy industry.

I know historical context is fundamental, and I love CCBS thanks to G2, but these are all small things that need to be considered.

*snip*

You make a very good point when you say that LEGO allowed HF to have a successor, I'll give you that.

But between failure and success there's a middle point, and that's 'filling a niche". As yourself said, constraction is a niche, therefore doesn't need to sell Ninjago levels: so what's wrong with saying that 2015 BIONICLE is a secondary theme in LEGO's eyes?

Chima had a launch G2 BIONICLE could only dream of having, and the theme's average run may be one of the causes new Bonkles didn't have one so big.

Also, I never said CCBS was a failure. Just a way to satisfy a niche that could have been handled better. LEGO itself recognised HF's less than spectacular run.

In conclusion, CCBS does not have the variety that bricks have to justify reusing the same pieces over and over again. A torso piece can be used only as a torso piece (or as leg armour, like *ugh* Tahu). A brick has almost infinite possibilities (I can't believe I'm using the average BIONICLE-hater's golden argument).

[mysteriouspi]

In conclusion, CCBS does not have the variety that bricks have to justify reusing the same pieces over and over again. A torso piece can be used only as a torso piece (or as leg armour, like *ugh* Tahu). A brick has almost infinite possibilities (I can't believe I'm using the average BIONICLE-hater's golden argument).

I disagree with this conclusion. Like System and BIONICLE Gen 1 parts, each piece is what you make of it. Not every piece is good for every role, but each one has more uses than immediately obvious. The longer we have CCBS and thus the more new molds we get (I'm thinking specifically about add-ons), the more this becomes apparent.

[TwistLaw]

I disagree with this conclusion. Like System and BIONICLE Gen 1 parts, each piece is what you make of it. Not every piece is good for every role, but each one has more uses than immediately obvious. The longer we have CCBS and thus the more new molds we get (I'm thinking specifically about add-ons), the more this becomes apparent.

Fine, but after five years of CCBS we still see more or less the same structures repeated again and again using more or less the same pieces. Shells are always shells, torsos are almost always torsos and so on. The very same thing happened in G1, but at least we had a plump stream of reskins until 2006.

[MakutaOfWar]

We have a CCBS vs G1 thread. ;)

[mysteriouspi]

We have a CCBS vs G1 thread. ;)

Right, sorry.

Has anyone noticed that the Toa are taking on each (set of) Skull Villain separately? They found a bunch of Skull Warriors, then Slicer. Scorpios are probably next, then Basher, and then Kulta. Interesting how Ekimu is the only one who gets to fight multiple types at the same time (and totally creams them btw). Kinda sad the Toa didn't get to do the same, even if they don't perform as well as Ekimu.

[TwistLaw]

We have a CCBS vs G1 thread. ;)

Mmh is it still active?

Anyway I'm not making any kind of comparison, rather than a list of things that grind my gears.

G1 has its fair share of faults and I'm aware of this.

[MakutaOfWar]

@mysteriouspi- That's pretty much the way it plays out on the boxart.

@TwistLaw- Should be just a page back or two(at least for me on mobile.) Just if things escalate to comparisons and whatnot take it there. :P Edit: Two pages back on mobile, can't link it for some reason. Hm. Action figure forum pages, not this topic pages. XD

Edited September 3, 2015 by MakutaOfWar

[TheDesuComplex]

Has anyone noticed that the Toa are taking on each (set of) Skull Villain separately? They found a bunch of Skull Warriors, then Slicer. Scorpios are probably next, then Basher, and then Kulta. Interesting how Ekimu is the only one who gets to fight multiple types at the same time (and totally creams them btw). Kinda sad the Toa didn't get to do the same, even if they don't perform as well as Ekimu.

I am okay with them taking their time, as it keeps the battles from getting too hectic and gives the opportunity to 'showcase' each seperate villain. I also like that it makes the enemies tiered of sorts, which I think of in terms of a video game- The Skull Spiders are the tutorial horde monsters, LoSS the first boss, Warrior the second level, Slicer the second boss, Scorpio the third level, Basher the third boss, and Grinder the final boss who curbstomps you unless you recruit Ekimu sometime along your quest.

[Frozen Assasin]

Talking about the CCBS system...It doesn't fail, 'cause if it does then Lego shall close it all together.

[TwistLaw]

Since this thread is substantially dead, and will soon be replaced, I'd love to read an answer by Aanchir and Quisoves Pugnat about the matter we were discussing yesterday.

I think there still are a couple of points that need to be cleared, and since the small off topic was started here we may end it here. I guess it won't interfere with any other major topic, will it? :D

[MakutaOfWar]

So, am I the only one who feels hopeless about Bionicle's sales this year? I mean, there's no way of telling how it's doing other then observations on store stocks but given Constractions' reputation with the late Gen 1 and HF I'm a tad scared. :s Just hold on for 2 more years, at least, Bionicle.

Or ignore this. XD I know this has been said/asked A LOT.

Edited September 4, 2015 by MakutaOfWar