Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[takarawarrior2014]

plot twist: mixels replaces hero factory.

[Jetrax99]

plot twist: mixels replaces hero factory.

I know you're joking, but still, highly unlikely. also, Takara fan?

[takarawarrior2014]

yep! :D He's also the name of my Self-Moc.

Edited January 3, 2014 by takarawarrior2014

[3rdeye88]

This doesn't at all surprise me. WIth The LoC Ultrabuilds having what looks like new armor and weapon parts developed for them with their own flavor, and the lack of interest/development on this year's lineup, I think we're starting to see the whole "Lego checking out" Hero Factory. Its what they did with the final year or so of Bionicle. Videos like these

makes me think that Lego likes the current form of Constraction elements, but maybe not the theme that comes attached to it. I think a lot of people are worring about the plot lines and I think maybe lego doesn't feel they need to tie that up. If they want to dump out of Hero Factory in 2015 they will probably just do it. I think if they're willing to just jump from one story to the next without even wrapping up the last one, this whole thing might end with a lot of roads leading to nowhere, much like Bionicle had. That's just my two cents at least.

Also...Hooray, my first post ever on Eurobricks. *waves* Hi everyone I'm new here. My name's Dave. I'm a BioMOCer mostly known on Deviantart. I go by the same name there and Thirdeye88 on Flickr.

[bacem]

This doesn't at all surprise me. WIth The LoC Ultrabuilds having what looks like new armor and weapon parts developed for them with their own flavor, and the lack of interest/development on this year's lineup, I think we're starting to see the whole "Lego checking out" Hero Factory. Its what they did with the final year or so of Bionicle. Videos like these

makes me think that Lego likes the current form of Constraction elements, but maybe not the theme that comes attached to it. I think a lot of people are worring about the plot lines and I think maybe lego doesn't feel they need to tie that up. If they want to dump out of Hero Factory in 2015 they will probably just do it. I think if they're willing to just jump from one story to the next without even wrapping up the last one, this whole thing might end with a lot of roads leading to nowhere, much like Bionicle had. That's just my two cents at least.

Also...Hooray, my first post ever on Eurobricks. *waves* Hi everyone I'm new here. My name's Dave. I'm a BioMOCer mostly known on Deviantart. I go by the same name there and Thirdeye88 on Flickr.

welcome 3rdeye 88! i suggest you go here first and do a proper introduction.

back on topic. i personally would be perfectly fine if they actually ended hero factory at 2015 and replace it with something else, as long as they still use the current CCBS systems, or replace it with something better, as long as CCBS aren't gone.

[3rdeye88]

welcome 3rdeye 88! i suggest you go here first and do a proper introduction.

back on topic. i personally would be perfectly fine if they actually ended hero factory at 2015 and replace it with something else, as long as they still use the current CCBS systems, or replace it with something better, as long as CCBS aren't gone.

I thought about it, didn't think a whole thread was necessary, just wanted to say a quick hello here on the action figure thread since that's probably the only place I'll be posting, I would love some Eurobrick do's, don't's, decorum and etiquette tips though. Are there private message abilities here?

I'm sorry, what does CCBS stand for? I've not heard of this term before. I'm pretty sure there's a lot of terms used here that I'm unprivy to. I'm the same way though, At this point I don't care what they call it I just want a constraction system so I can keep MOCIng. Hero Factory was never about the stories, characters or builds even for me. Even the best builds in HF I thought were mediocre, for me it was all about the parts. I think the system they came up with is really nice, I feel that between HF and BIonicle, the two really balance each other out quite nicely and make up for each other's short comings.

[bacem]

I thought about it, didn't think a whole thread was necessary, just wanted to say a quick hello here on the action figure thread since that's probably the only place I'll be posting, I would love some Eurobrick do's, don't's, decorum and etiquette tips though. Are there private message abilities here?

I'm sorry, what does CCBS stand for? I've not heard of this term before. I'm pretty sure there's a lot of terms used here that I'm unprivy to. I'm the same way though, At this point I don't care what they call it I just want a constraction system so I can keep MOCIng. Hero Factory was never about the stories, characters or builds even for me. Even the best builds in HF I thought were mediocre, for me it was all about the parts. I think the system they came up with is really nice, I feel that between HF and BIonicle, the two really balance each other out quite nicely and make up for each other's short comings.

ccbs is constraction system.

you should head here about forum guidelines.

[Aanchir]

I thought about it, didn't think a whole thread was necessary, just wanted to say a quick hello here on the action figure thread since that's probably the only place I'll be posting, I would love some Eurobrick do's, don't's, decorum and etiquette tips though. Are there private message abilities here?

I'm sorry, what does CCBS stand for? I've not heard of this term before. I'm pretty sure there's a lot of terms used here that I'm unprivy to. I'm the same way though, At this point I don't care what they call it I just want a constraction system so I can keep MOCIng. Hero Factory was never about the stories, characters or builds even for me. Even the best builds in HF I thought were mediocre, for me it was all about the parts. I think the system they came up with is really nice, I feel that between HF and BIonicle, the two really balance each other out quite nicely and make up for each other's short comings.

CCBS stands for Character and Creature Building System. Basically a short term for the building system that was introduced in 2011 Hero Factory sets. Anyway, great to have you here!

[Front]

CCBS is not going anywhere. Balls are the new black.

Erland

Part Design

[Shakar]

CCBS is not going anywhere. Balls are the new black.

Erland

Part Design

I might just sig this. Edited February 7, 2014 by Shakar

[vexorian]

Note how front is saying nothing about the size of the balls.

[Aanchir]

Note how front is saying nothing about the size of the balls.

I don't think he'd refer to the current building by its acronym if he were talking about a fundamentally different building system. If he had just said "balls and ball cups are not going anywhere" then it could be interpreted as referring to the Mixels ball cups, but I don't think he'd say "CCBS" when referring to a different building system unless he were deliberately trying to mislead us.

[Zenerius]

Front, I have now placed your line as my signature. Take that Shakar!

Anyway, it's glad to have some confirmation that we are having CCBS for a while longer. As long as CCBS stays, I'm happy.

[3rdeye88]

CCBS stands for Character and Creature Building System. Basically a short term for the building system that was introduced in 2011 Hero Factory sets. Anyway, great to have you here!

Thanks Aanchir. I see, its good to know that that particular building system has a name for it.

Is there any hints to what the new series might be? Its a brand new series starting next year right?

[Bigger Fish]

I'd think it'd be fun to see a reboot of either Throwbots or Roboriders. A take on Cy-bots (the line Faber originally pitched and the basis for the ball joints) would be fun, too.

[Zenerius]

I'd think it'd be fun to see a reboot of either Throwbots or Roboriders. A take on Cy-bots (the line Faber originally pitched and the basis for the ball joints) would be fun, too.

Or maybe.... Just maybe.... We could have Throboriders! A crossover between Throwbots and Roboriders where the characters have disk launchers and transform into vehicles. Could end up being pretty cool, actually.

[Mandate]

Eh, I wouldn't be surprised if HERO FACTORY did kick the can next year. I think that one of the aspects as to its failure is that there was no "golden bionicle" (as stupid as those sets were) aspect to it. By that I mean that there was no reason to collect most of the sets unless you wanted the parts, or just for the simple pleasure of bragging about owning X set. The lack of a deeper lore base also might have helped, while if you delve into the books the story/s become much deeper, such as the Legion of Darkness, but even comparing the entire HERO FACTORY line to the first year of NINJAGO, it lacks the fundamental aspect of collectability, story, and a "play-gimmick" (though the latter is not required, and is somewhat rare in LEGO sets today), and by "play gimmick", I mean such as the Rock Monsters in Power Miners ability to "eat" crystals, the Keys to Atlantis (in the ATLANTIS sets, obv.) being able to open things in the sets, as well as the "mission objectives" and stars in the AGENTS sets, which fulfilled all three aspects in one go (the objectives, not the stars). While there were the Handcuffs in Breakout, as well as the Brain Attack brains, HERO FACTORY ultimately failed in that regard as a toy that would really make kids want them. However, all of that being said, Invasion from Below could be a real turning point for HF as it incorporates much more Technic building into the builds, has resulted in more solid designs and fulfilled one of the things few Constraction sets achiev: bad guys and good guys in the same set. Admittedly, it fails because of the tiny Kaiju, or the big ones versus the Heroes, but it's not like System sets have a proper answer to that problem as well.

Who knows? Maybe IFB will be successful enough to warrant another year for HF. I can only hope so, because while I collect few HF sets it would be a shame to see it go.

[coolcab1]

Or maybe.... Just maybe.... We could have Throboriders! A crossover between Throwbots and Roboriders where the characters have disk launchers and transform into vehicles. Could end up being pretty cool, actually.

That... would... be.... AWESOME!!!!!

[Mesonak]

Or maybe.... Just maybe.... We could have Throboriders! A crossover between Throwbots and Roboriders where the characters have disk launchers and transform into vehicles. Could end up being pretty cool, actually.

I would buy that line up in a heartbeat.

Personally, I think HF is played out at this point and needs to be retired. It hurts to say that because I've been (and still continue to be) an adamant supporter of the theme ever since its release, but I think that, somewhere along the line, they lost their way. They never seemed to be sure what kind of storytelling they wanted the line to have; I think the first two years handled it very well as far as self-referential comedy was concerned, Savage Planet and Breakout tried to be more serious, and the recent two specials have floundered in-between some-what. An unfortunate occurrence that I also feel hurt things is that the theme lost forms of media that helped out either side of the spectrum. Stuff like Hero Factory FM, the Call Center, the Secret Mission books, that's all gone. It's really a shame.

That being said, I'm loving what they're doing with Invasion from Below, and I do hope that minifig-scale HF is able to carry the theme on for a while longer. Because at the very least, while everything else is a jumbled mess, the sets are still pretty great. :P

Edited February 9, 2014 by Mesonak

[Aanchir]

I would buy that line up in a heartbeat.

Personally, I think HF is played out at this point and needs to be retired. It hurts to say that because I've been (and still continue to be) an adamant supporter of the theme ever since its release, but somewhere along the line, it feels like they've lost their way. They never seemed to be sure what tone of storytelling they wanted the line to have; I think the first two years handled it very well as far as being comedic and self-referential was concerned, Savage Planet and Breakout tried to be more serious, and the recent two specials have kinda floundered in-between. Because of this, the theme lost forms of media that helped out either side of the spectrum. Stuff like Hero Factory FM, the Call Center, the Secret Mission books, that's all gone. It's really a shame.

That being said, I'm loving what they're doing with Invasion from Below, and I do hope that minifig-scale HF is able to carry the theme on for a while longer. Because at the very least, while everything else is a jumbled mess, the sets are still pretty great. :P

Savage Planet, serious? I don't know quite what you mean there. Not only was it full of jokes (some of them quite bad) and one-liners, but it had some downright wacky story elements, like the raving mad Witch Doctor and the shrinking of three of the heroes. Breakout was a little bit lighter on the jokes and had a somewhat ominous ending, but it also had over-the-top "theme villains" like the original 2010 story arc.

Hero Factory's story direction hasn't been entirely consistent as far as tone is concerned, but I don't think that's a recent phenomenon or that it started with a much more consistent tone. Hero Factory FM was always far sillier than the TV episodes, and aside from brief and sometimes groanworthy bits of comic relief, the episodes have had about the same amount of seriousness throughout, even if things are never quite as grim or serious as they often were in BIONICLE.

You could really make the same sort of statement about BIONICLE. After all, its comics were always VERY serious (except perhaps the McDonalds promotional comic from 2001), which could be off-putting for some adult reviewers who expected a LEGO-branded comic to be fun and lighthearted. But the Mata Nui Online Game and the online Flash animations had lots of silliness. And the movies were occasionally criticized by fans for being too silly and childish compared to the books and comics.

The main thing separating the BIONICLE story from the Hero Factory story is that rather than telling different parts of the same overarching story, the different media is telling mostly stand-alone stories. So I guess I can sort of understand how it's more difficult to put the sillier media like Hero Factory FM and the HeroPad videos together with the more serious chapter books or the TV episodes which fall someplace in between. Still, I don't think that this sort of dissonance cripples the theme in any meaningful way. As you say, the sets provide the theme with a solid foundation, and the story largely functions to direct attention towards and give life to the the sets. If the Hero Factory theme ends any time soon, I think it will just be to make way for something new and different, not on account of any kind of disastrous flaw.

I do have to somewhat wonder what kind of theme might eventually take Hero Factory's place. The only thing that I think is certain are that it will still have brightly-colored, robotic-looking figures, and that it will still have a very character-driven storyline. That strategy hasn't failed the LEGO Group in any action figure theme yet. The main protagonists will probably also be humanoid, since that has consistently proven to be the type of character kids can most easily identify with. Beyond that, the sky's the limit.

Edited February 9, 2014 by Aanchir

[3rdeye88]

I would buy that line up in a heartbeat.

Personally, I think HF is played out at this point and needs to be retired. It hurts to say that because I've been (and still continue to be) an adamant supporter of the theme ever since its release, but I think that, somewhere along the line, they lost their way. They never seemed to be sure what kind of storytelling they wanted the line to have; I think the first two years handled it very well as far as self-referential comedy was concerned, Savage Planet and Breakout tried to be more serious, and the recent two specials have floundered in-between some-what. An unfortunate occurrence that I also feel hurt things is that the theme lost forms of media that helped out either side of the spectrum. Stuff like Hero Factory FM, the Call Center, the Secret Mission books, that's all gone. It's really a shame.

That being said, I'm loving what they're doing with Invasion from Below, and I do hope that minifig-scale HF is able to carry the theme on for a while longer. Because at the very least, while everything else is a jumbled mess, the sets are still pretty great. :P

Savage Planet, serious? I don't know quite what you mean there. Not only was it full of jokes (some of them quite bad) and one-liners, but it had some downright wacky story elements, like the raving mad Witch Doctor and the shrinking of three of the heroes. Breakout was a little bit lighter on the jokes and had a somewhat ominous ending, but it also had over-the-top "theme villains" like the original 2010 story arc.

Hero Factory's story direction hasn't been entirely consistent as far as tone is concerned, but I don't think that's a recent phenomenon or that it started with a much more consistent tone. Hero Factory FM was always far sillier than the TV episodes, and aside from brief and sometimes groanworthy bits of comic relief, the episodes have had about the same amount of seriousness throughout, even if things are never quite as grim or serious as they often were in BIONICLE.

You could really make the same sort of statement about BIONICLE. After all, its comics were always VERY serious (except perhaps the McDonalds promotional comic from 2001), which could be off-putting for some adult reviewers who expected a LEGO-branded comic to be fun and lighthearted. But the Mata Nui Online Game and the online Flash animations had lots of silliness. And the movies were occasionally criticized by fans for being too silly and childish compared to the books and comics.

The main thing separating the BIONICLE story from the Hero Factory story is that rather than telling different parts of the same overarching story, the different media is telling mostly stand-alone stories. So I guess I can sort of understand how it's more difficult to put the sillier media like Hero Factory FM and the HeroPad videos together with the more serious chapter books or the TV episodes which fall someplace in between. Still, I don't think that this sort of dissonance cripples the theme in any meaningful way. As you say, the sets provide the theme with a solid foundation, and the story largely functions to direct attention towards and give life to the the sets. If the Hero Factory theme ends any time soon, I think it will just be to make way for something new and different, not on account of any kind of disastrous flaw.

I do have to somewhat wonder what kind of theme might eventually take Hero Factory's place. The only thing that I think is certain are that it will still have brightly-colored, robotic-looking figures, and that it will still have a very character-driven storyline. That strategy hasn't failed the LEGO Group in any action figure theme yet. The main protagonists will probably also be humanoid, since that has consistently proven to be the type of character kids can most easily identify with. Beyond that, the sky's the limit.

I think another critical aspect lego seemed to overlook with this theme is they scaled the demographic down when they probably should have kept it the same or even advanced it a little further. Targeting older teenagers and young adults while still making it something appropriate for younger kids would have served two purposes.

Firstly it would have retained the audience from Bionicle who were either already old enough to appreciate its complexity and darker more serious tones. People such as myself Got into bionicle year one. I was 13 when bionicle came out. I was the target Demographic at taht time. I grew up and kept with it. Granted I'm sure a lot of people did outgrow it but we also see hat a good portion of people stayed with it. So lego dropped the ball and alienated a lot of fan base they had alread had, and not just by ending Bionicle. My stance there is pissed off fanboys need to get the heck over it. Bionicle had a good run and it was time for a change. But Lego really alienated the fanbase much further by "dumbing down' the theme. This is ultimately why nothing you could really say will get me to be impressed or interested about Hero Factory's story. I watch the specials cause they're amusing(even being so terrible they're funny). Come 2010 Lego had this fanbase that had grown up with a constraction theme or had kids who would have grown into HF had it retained a more complex nature. Instead they opted for the 6-12 year old range and went for the novelty aspect as lego often does.

NOTE: I absolutely love the CCBS style of parts, I'm speaking solely about the story aspect of HF.

Secondly, catering to the same slightly older audience would have enticed younger children to get involved. You look at any toy commercial and a lot of the times the kids in the commercial are a few years older than the demographic. That's a classic advertising technique. Lego could have taken this to a whole new level by actually targeting both demos at the same time. Little kids love doing what ever older kids are doing.

Overall, I think there could have been a happy medium here, but lego totally lopped off the top half of their demographic, who probably would have been more faithful and loyal buyers of the theme. Kids are going to get their parents to buy them what ever appeals to them in the moment, an older audience will buy into the theme because its the next year's theme, it serves a deeper purpose. Mesonak has a point though. With the story being terrible, the builds being lack luster, I go buy what ever set because I want the parts. I just bought two Thornraxx' the other night instead of one of two figures because I'd rather double up on that set's parts. Nowadays its all about the parts for me. The story aspect is pretty much dead to me. That's fundamentally shaped my view of Hero Factory and determines how I review sets. Its all purely from a MOCing and set buying perspective for me now.

I agree with Aanchir, I think they'll definitely keep to the humanoid figure concept. Though robots, that to me is up in the air. I just can't help but notice that this years Chima UB's have their own style of armor and weapons. So clearly they're not above using the CCBS system but giving it a different flavor for a different theme. While I'd miss the robotic theme because lets face it, its what we've known for 15 years(counting slizers in 1999), something different might be refreshing. *shrugs*

Edited February 10, 2014 by 3rdeye88

[Aanchir]

Overall, I think there could have been a happy medium here, but lego totally lopped off the top half of their demographic, who probably would have been more faithful and loyal buyers of the theme.

I have to disagree here. Kids will pretty much always be more reliable buyers of any LEGO theme, simply because LEGO is a toy company and older kids and teens are less likely to spend money on toys and more likely to spend it on things like music and video games. You don't stand to make a whole lot of money by targeting people in the age group that's inherently more likely to be growing out of your product.

It's hard to say if BIONICLE was ever really targeted at older teens or whether those were just a periphery demographic, but from the look of things, kids grew out of BIONICLE just about as quickly as with LEGO in general. The theme cycled through new groups of fans throughout its lifespan, like any theme that lasts that long. The "lifelong fans" who followed the brand with a passion and stuck with it into their late teens or adult years (myself included) were outliers, just like the AFOL community as a whole.

And something else to keep in mind is that having a theme "grow up" with its audience doesn't always work. A number of BIONICLE fans who were around for the beginning actually disliked later attempts to make the theme "darker and edgier". They wanted it to stay true to the brightly-colored character designs and adventurous tone of the early years. That's the inherent risk of trying to tailor a story to a changing demographic. It's often safer to assume that fans like a franchise for what it is than that they like it in spite of what it is — unless you have actual, measurable data that suggests fans tend to like certain parts of the franchise more than others.

[3rdeye88]

I have to disagree here. Kids will pretty much always be more reliable buyers of any LEGO theme, simply because LEGO is a toy company and older kids and teens are less likely to spend money on toys and more likely to spend it on things like music and video games. You don't stand to make a whole lot of money by targeting people in the age group that's inherently more likely to be growing out of your product.

It's hard to say if BIONICLE was ever really targeted at older teens or whether those were just a periphery demographic, but from the look of things, kids grew out of BIONICLE just about as quickly as with LEGO in general. The theme cycled through new groups of fans throughout its lifespan, like any theme that lasts that long. The "lifelong fans" who followed the brand with a passion and stuck with it into their late teens or adult years (myself included) were outliers, just like the AFOL community as a whole.

And something else to keep in mind is that having a theme "grow up" with its audience doesn't always work. A number of BIONICLE fans who were around for the beginning actually disliked later attempts to make the theme "darker and edgier". They wanted it to stay true to the brightly-colored character designs and adventurous tone of the early years. That's the inherent risk of trying to tailor a story to a changing demographic. It's often safer to assume that fans like a franchise for what it is than that they like it in spite of what it is — unless you have actual, measurable data that suggests fans tend to like certain parts of the franchise more than others.

When you put it that way it does make sense. There's merit to both views. On one hand kids will go "Ummmm no I want a ___ this time instead of a bionicle" they're very fickle and lego knows that so they make pretty much every decision to try and retain that attention. While, yes an older demographic can and usually does grow out of it, I think that's mostly due to dialog and social perception. "you're getting too old to be playing with lego." Guys like you, myself and the AFOL community either never listened, got out of it only to realize it was dumb to ever stop liking it in the first place(hence the term dark ages.) I personally never had one. I just kept going. I think if lego changed their age ratings to *number here* and up, instead of "ages 6-12" across the board that would help, maybe even in just a small way convey that no one's ever too old for lego. I'd actually like to see an active marketing campaign from lego where they say that, a little icon or slogan on the box somewhere. Yes lego is a toy meant for kids, but it's far much more than that. I think people on some level understand that. The Lego Movie is a big stride in this endeavor to. It really opened the dialog and even visually shows that Lego's aren't just for kids. Why else would they have "1980's something space man(benny)" in there? (and if you've seen the movie you know what else I'm referring to). This ties back into how I think lego really undercut themselves and continue to do so with their themes.

Clearly they understand the adult consumer exist, Architecture, the modular buildings and any of the advanced builder sets wouldn't exist if they didn't. And really who's the $600 Death Star set really for? If I could relay one message to the people at lego its that they need to realize all lego is for everyone, not just this theme for that target demo, and so on.

I'm sure you probably know more about this than I do, do you know of what kind of measures lego takes to know what themes and products the older demographics buy? The only polls or survey questions I can recall answering from lego specifically are ones pertaining to the online shopping site. I know there's the CEE, but beyond that what does lego really do to get an understanding of where its at for older groups? I look around on Bricknerd, TBB and The New Elementary and I see TLM, Castle, Star wars, city, lots of the "not the specifically adult" themes. I've actually only seen The New Elementary cover any of those with Caper's posts about the Architecture sets he reviewed. Also is there any kind of data on how much the AFOL community makes up of the market for lego? I keep hearing that the AFOL community is a huge minority and that just doesn't make sense when I see how many there are out there and how much lego they buy and use.

Edited February 11, 2014 by 3rdeye88

[dviddy]

The AFOL community, in its totality, globally, makes up less than five percent of TLG's sales.

[3rdeye88]

The AFOL community, in its totality, globally, makes up less than five percent of TLG's sales.

Okay, I'm not saying you're wrong, but where is the statistical data and the hard proof of that? I want numbers and graphs and so on. I'm asking if any of that information is public or in a database somewhere. Edited February 13, 2014 by 3rdeye88