Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Aanchir]

Different size classes for Toa is going to be a very interesting thing. With the old-Bionicle it was accepted that Toa were usually always a standard canister set. $9-$12 depending on the year, but they all had a consistent size in their own respective years. When you look at a Toa Inika compared to a Toa Mata, they almost seem like titans within themselves. To me, having vastly different sizes of Toa might be a bit strange to grasp a hold of. Yes, teams can come in different shapes and sizes, but even with the different a varied builds we saw in 2007-2009, they all still remained roughly the same size.

Not so! Toa Mahri Kongu and Toa Mahri Hewkii were both 22.5 modules tall (7 inches/18 centimeters) — about the same height as a Toa Nuva. Toa Mahri Nuparu and Jaller were both 28 modules tall (8.75 inches/22.4 millimeters) — the same height as a Toa Inika. Naturally, all the Toa Mahri cost the same price.

Now, let's look at some $15 and $20 sets from this year... but to be fair, let's compare some fairly humanoid figures from the Legends of Chima theme rather than the more varied builds from this year's Hero Factory sets. CHI Fluminox, a $20 set, is about 30 modules tall, like Furno XL. CHI Laval and CHI Panthar, both $15 sets, are both about 25.5 modules tall. The difference in height is smaller than between the largest and smallest of the Toa Mahri! The extra cost into not just extra height, but also more elaborate armor and accessories. Overall, if the Toa Mata are indeed split between the $15 and $20 price points, I think there's no fear of their heights being too different — not if you were able to tolerate the varied heights of the Toa Mahri.

Personally, I'm a little bit more worried about the average height, but that's mainly personal bias. I was really thrilled when the Hero Factory 2.0 series basically reset the basic hero size to the same as the Toa Mata or Toa Nuva. It'll be a little bit frustrating for me if the Toa sets return to post-2006 proportions. But I suppose it's worth it to get smaller Matoran-sized sets again. I guess the LEGO Group feels like $10 "defenders" (consistent with the smallest price point for regular Hero Factory sets) will sell better than $5 ones. The defender sets are definitely a few modules taller than "classic" Matoran, but not much different in height from 2004, 2007, or 2008 Matoran. And best of all, their designs seem to offer plenty of variety and complexity.

[EVO97]

But I suppose it's worth it to get smaller Matoran-sized sets again. I guess the LEGO Group feels like $10 "defenders" (consistent with the smallest price point for regular Hero Factory sets) will sell better than $5 ones. The defender sets are definitely a few modules taller than "classic" Matoran, but not much different in height from 2004, 2007, or 2008 Matoran. And best of all, their designs seem to offer plenty of variety and complexity.

I'm really looking forward to the Defenders, maybe even more than some of the Toa. During HF's run I missed the civilian type characters.

[Aanchir]

I'm really looking forward to the Defenders, maybe even more than some of the Toa. During HF's run I missed the civilian type characters.

I don't know if you could really count Matoran as civilians given how they were always armed with something to defend themselves with (be it a disk, a launcher, a melee weapon, or a vehicle like the Boxor), but I agree with this sentiment completely. There's a difference between merely telling action stories and populating an entire world. Matoran did a great job helping BIONICLE to achieve the latter.

[Aethersprite]

I'm really looking forward to the Defenders, maybe even more than some of the Toa. During HF's run I missed the civilian type characters.

I can't agree more. That's one of the main things I miss about Bionicle. It's a pity they all share the same mask, but it looks to be a very nice looking mask, so I can deal with that! Looks like the Earth Defender even has a purple mask, we haven't seen those in a long time. Looking forward to making some MOCs with these new masks.

[DOTM Shockwave]

Looking at the leaked image, I've been wondering if the new Bionicle sets will be using the head piece released in Brain Attack or a new piece altogether.

If it's a new piece, I'm kinda hoping it resembles the original Mata head piece in some way.

[Aedai Rivin]

I can't agree more. That's one of the main things I miss about Bionicle. It's a pity they all share the same mask, but it looks to be a very nice looking mask, so I can deal with that! Looks like the Earth Defender even has a purple mask, we haven't seen those in a long time. Looking forward to making some MOCs with these new masks.

Other people in this thread have theorized that the Defenders will come with a randomized mask (probably matching the color of the set) But I wouldn't get my hopes up personally.

[Aethersprite]

Other people in this thread have theorized that the Defenders will come with a randomized mask (probably matching the color of the set) But I wouldn't get my hopes up personally.

That would be nice, but I highly doubt so. I guess we hope for too much when we're excited! There's been nothing to indicate the random masks so far. I'm fine with the Gresh-like masks included, they look pretty cool.

[Leewan]

Since all the Defenders have the same face / head, perhaps they're not wearing any Kanohi Mask, but it's their actual face that we see.

[Vinyl Scratch]

The more I look at it, the more the Defenders' masks look like a Kanohi Arthron to me. At least the shape of it.

[Tremah]

The more I look at it, the more the Defenders' masks look like a Kanohi Arthron to me. At least the shape of it.

For me it is more like Vamprah's mask.

Also I hope that defenders will act as boosters for toa, so I'm waiting for combiners.

[Agent Fusion]

It reminds me of Metus' head.

[Mr. Gundam]

I been looking at toa pics and somethings I what to point out:

Tahu: Since we all could see the lavaboard, i been scratching my head about the gold swords being placeholders for lavaboard.

Gali: looking only at the tool, I realize its just one pickaxe. theres also a piece at the bottom.

Ouna: His hammer is two 64712 pieces. Hopefully they keep the sliver.

Lewa: him and kopaka have neck armor a la 2012 bulk. But i cant make heads or tails of his black axe piece. This has to be a placeholder for something else. It reminds me of 32190 piece which is awkward choice for an axe

Kopaka: i wonder what the top piece of the pole going to be? also not sure how hes holding the shield.

Pohatu: only thing i could add is vague look of back piece but thats not much.

Because of CCBS there is large variety of combinations styles to take up. new versions of Akamai, Wairuha or match one large toa set to a smaller toa set.

@Aanchir, you just made me realize that later bionicle toa sets tower over most of the HF sets.

@Tremah, thats would great if TLG used the defenders that way. It be like nuva sets

[Shakar]

IMO it's the gold mask on top that looks like (a "good" version of) Vamprah's Avsa. The Defenders' masks/heads look more similar to Gresh's helmet to me- or yes, Metus's.

I still hope it's a prototype thing, though. Characters' faces and masks/helmets are a central point in their identity and recognizeability so I imagine it's a big selling point. It just seems so weird to me for Lego to sell 6 sets with the exact same head (the only sets I remember doing that were the Bohrok, Vahki and Rahaga) especially after all the efforts in the last 7-8 years to destroy the clone sets syndrome.

What I REALLY wanted to see was something like the 2001 Matoran (the Toa masks recolored into "odd" colours like yellow, purple, teal and such) or something more mixed like the Metru Matoran (where, for example, the Huna didn't go to Nuhrii but to Tehutti). That way, the Earth Defender could've had, say, a purple Miru (and I could've finally built my self-MOC ).

[Aanchir]

Looking at the leaked image, I've been wondering if the new Bionicle sets will be using the head piece released in Brain Attack or a new piece altogether.

If it's a new piece, I'm kinda hoping it resembles the original Mata head piece in some way.

Hard to say. Personally, if there is a new head, I probably wouldn't want it to look like the old BIONICLE heads. They just looked so weird and alien, and in drawings it was difficult to make them show expression. I think there's a reason the movie makers made sure never to show the actual face underneath the characters' masks, even when a character lost their mask or had to put on a new mask.

The more I look at it, the more the Defenders' masks look like a Kanohi Arthron to me. At least the shape of it.

It resembles an Arthron to me too, but of course that could be coincidence.

@Aanchir, you just made me realize that later bionicle toa sets tower over most of the HF sets.

Well, in many cases, yes. But as I said, the Toa Mahri had a wide range of heights, and the same is true of many other series. At 27.5 modules in height, Gresh, Ackar, and many of the other Glatorian and Glatorian Legends do tower over most small and medium Hero Factory characters, but Malum is just 22.5 modules tall — about the same height as the smallest Brain Attack heroes. Skrall is just barely taller, at 23.5 modules tall at the top of the head. Phantoka Toa Pohatu is also 22.5 modules in height. For the sake of comparison, all these sets are shorter than any of the Toa Metru sets (which ranged from 24 to 26 modules in height).

But yes, the average height of canister sets definitely shot up with the Piraka and Toa Inika. The titan set Axonn from 2006 is almost exactly the same height as a Toa Inika (discounting the horn on the top of his mask), despite costing twice as much and having more than twice the piece count! Actually, that's probably a good comparison when explaining how the new Toa could be at different price points but still remain similar in height. Onua's the only one who looks like he could be anywhere near as buff as Axonn, but more elaborate armor and weapons could easily push a set from $15 to $20.

Speaking of armor and weapons, if these Toa are indeed $15 and $20, hopefully that means they will all have back armor.

[Kalhiki]

Speaking of armor and weapons, if these Toa are indeed $15 and $20, hopefully that means they will all have back armor.

Looking at Tahu, there's definitely appears to be something on his back. Plus, his upper body seems fairly thick, so I wouldn't worry too much. At least for the large sets.

Personally, I hope the back armor is silver or some shade of grey just to reference the gear that was on the Toa Mata's backs.

[TwistLaw]

I think there's a reason the movie makers made sure never to show the actual face underneath the characters' masks, even when a character lost their mask or had to put on a new mask.

Actually it was just for economic purposes, since creating a model for a maskless face would have been used very few times while costing time and money. It wasn't worth the effort, substancially.

Besides, I've always found the heads of BIONICLE had great charm, with their emotionless expression (y'know, they're robots). Also, they're alien compared to us

One thing I noticed and quite disturbed me: you can't say Kikanalo without saying anal.

[Agent Fusion]

Kika-Nalo? Kikanal-O?

Back on topic, I really liked the faces (up until the completely trans. 08 faces) and I was really disappointed with the Brain Attack heads. I really hope they bring the faces back.

[Faefrost]

The decision to make half of the Toa team titan priced baffles me slightly. Part of the appeal of Hero Factory was that getting a full team was never too pricey. Here though? I've gotta drop £60 for three of 'em. Or £45, hoping it's the latter. Either way £45 would have easily brought the whole team back when they first came out.

Well the targeted fan base has changed. Back in the day these were mostly impulse buys for 6-12 year old small children or pocket money purchases from early teen fans. But now they have access to a ton of salaried 30 something fans who have already proved they are willing to shell out a hundred a pop for ultimate retro editions of He Man, Transformers and pretty much anything even marginally related to Darth Vader.

[Lord-Vorahk]

Having faces just made sense, because they were wearing masks. By BA, it was pretty clear that the heroes' helmets were basically their faces anyway, something that I didn't like, since making the helmets unique detracted from the creativity. See, there can easily be another Toa of Fire with a Hau or Huna, but a another red hero who has Furno's exact same face is a little ridiculous.

[Logan McOwen]

I hope if there is a new head, it matches the scale of the Avtoran/Metru heads, so we can use the older Kanohi. Although that's just me being a hopeful fanboy, it would make a lot of sense. I mean, does Lego really want to make 9 years of one product line somewhat incompatible with the next 9+ years of it? However, I won't be heartbroken if they use the BA head piece. As long as they still connect like masks, I'll be happy c:

[Aanchir]

Having faces just made sense, because they were wearing masks. By BA, it was pretty clear that the heroes' helmets were basically their faces anyway, something that I didn't like, since making the helmets unique detracted from the creativity. See, there can easily be another Toa of Fire with a Hau or Huna, but a another red hero who has Furno's exact same face is a little ridiculous.

Personally, I don't feel that way at all, especially in Brain Attack when you could easily change the look of a helmet by changing the color of the head and visor. Besides that, I think the Brain Attack helmets feel like some of the least character-specific designs in the Hero Factory theme other than the 2.0 helmets, since a lot of them are fairly basic and do not have a lot of specialized gear like microphones, cameras, and radio antennas. They even leave a connection point open on the back so you can attach custom gear to set the helmets apart from the official sets that share them.

I love to use Breez's helmet from the Brain Attack series — it helps that it exists in a neutral color and is perhaps the most feminine mask design ever released in a constraction theme. The other day my brother used Stormer's mask with Bulk's visor to create a custom hero with an Ice Planet 2002 color scheme. And I used Furno's mask AND visor for Caitlyn Gauss XL. Sure, it confused the kiddies, but I don't think they'd be much less confused if she were a Toa wearing a bright red Kanohi Hau. These are the same sorts of kids who often insist a MOC is "a kit" if it bears even a passing resemblance to existing sets (something I've heard far too often in reference to Rise of the Dread Colossus, a model I had to dissemble most of my LEGO Atlantis collection to build).

I hope if there is a new head, it matches the scale of the Avtoran/Metru heads, so we can use the older Kanohi. Although that's just me being a hopeful fanboy, it would make a lot of sense. I mean, does Lego really want to make 9 years of one product line somewhat incompatible with the next 9+ years of it? However, I won't be heartbroken if they use the BA head piece. As long as they still connect like masks, I'll be happy c:

I've never understood the notion of things "connecting like masks". It's true, most BIONICLE masks connected to the front of the face. I'm not sure exactly why this was, though it might have been to help the competitive gimmick since a mask that wrapped around the head would not fall off as easily. But in real life, most people don't wear masks by sucking on a peg on the inside with their mouths. Most masks attach over the head by necessity. Even if the mask is flat and goes in front of the face (like what you might wear to a masquerade ball), you generally attach it by slipping it over your head with a strap.

It's even arguable that masks that attach in unusual ways have been around since 2001 — after all, a lot of the Rahi didn't even wear the masks on their heads! In 2003 and 2004, Makuta had his mask attach to the top of his head in almost all depictions. And in BIONICLE: Mask of Light, ALL the Toa's masks wrapped around their heads — only the masks of the Matoran attached to the front of the face. Yet for some bizarre reason, BIONICLE fans developed this random notion early on that a mask that attaches to the top of the head is not actually a mask but rather a helmet — even if it covers the face, which is the only thing any "mask" in real life needs to do to be considered a mask.

There are some advantages to a mask attaching to the front of the face. A mask that wraps around the head can be harder to use on things like Rahi or MOCs with custom head designs. Yet as the masks from Hero Factory Brain Attack (and some 2009 BIONICLE masks and 2010 Hero Factory masks) demonstrated, it is totally possible to design a mask that attaches to the top of the head while still leaving the back of the head exposed. If a new BIONICLE theme had masks like that, I certainly wouldn't complain.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Aanchir

[Kalhiki]

When there are two connection points, and two types of head coverings, things that attach on the front would more generally be considered masks, while things that slip over the head would be helmets. Everyone (except Makuta) wore a mask that connected to the front of the face. Then the Glatorian showed up. They wore helmets, and the piece slipped over the head. And it made sense.

Plus, masks in general (regardless of real life attachment) cover the front of your face whereas helmets slip over and cover your head. To me, it wouldn't make sense to design a piece that's supposed to be a mask that attaches to the top of the head or a helmet that attaches to the front of the face.

[Chro]

These are the same sorts of kids who often insist a MOC is "a kit" if it bears even a passing resemblance to existing sets

That is so freaking annoying at conventions.

"Hey, I have that set! It's really cool!"

"Actually, you don't. I built this myself. But I'm glad you like it."

"No you're wrong. It is a set. And it's stupid."

* ragequit conversation *

[Aanchir]

When there are two connection points, and two types of head coverings, things that attach on the front would more generally be considered masks, while things that slip over the head would be helmets. Everyone (except Makuta) wore a mask that connected to the front of the face. Then the Glatorian showed up. They wore helmets, and the piece slipped over the head. And it made sense.

Plus, masks in general (regardless of real life attachment) cover the front of your face whereas helmets slip over and cover your head. To me, it wouldn't make sense to design a piece that's supposed to be a mask that attaches to the top of the head or a helmet that attaches to the front of the face.

Why wouldn't it make sense, though? Just because that's the way it's always been done? Because that's not a very good reason at all. There's absolutely no rule about how masks in BIONICLE have to attach.

Also, technically, many of the Glatorian helmets would qualify as masks. Not Kanohi masks, but masks nonetheless, because a mask is something that covers the face or part of the face, and most of the Glatorian masks do just that. They're even consistently referred to as masks in the catalogs and official set inventories on LEGO customer service. People made the arbitrary decision that masks that went over top of the head were helmets many years earlier — people randomly decided to call the Inika masks and Mistika Makuta masks as "helmets" or "helmet-like" long before the Glatorian (or any rational reason to call such masks helmets) existed.

Basically, masks and helmets are defined by what they do. A helmet protects the head, a mask covers the face. Some things do both, and therefore, are both. Neither definition has anything to do with how they're attached to the head. This is a mask that you pull over your head, but no sane person would consider it a helmet because it is not designed for protection of any kind.

Plus, if you define the difference between masks and helmets as how they're attached to the head (which makes no sense whatsoever), then what would you call these from the Splitface set? They attach to the sides of the head. Are they masks? Helmets? Neither? Both? In any case, as far as LEGO Customer Service is concerned, they're "masks", and there's really no logical reason to say they aren't.

You argue that Makuta masks follow different rules than other masks, but there is absolutely no reason to assume that. Mata Nui's Kanohi Ignika attached over top of the head as well, as did the Dikapi's. The more sensible explanation is that how a mask attaches to the head has nothing to do with whether or not it's actually a mask. Which, you know, would be consistent with real life anyway.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Aanchir

[Chimaninja454]

Hey, I'm a huge BIONICLE fan, and I look forward it if it comes back! :wub: