Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Meiko]

Okay, I'm not saying you're wrong, but where is the statistical data and the hard proof of that? I want numbers and graphs and so on. I'm asking if any of that information is public or in a database somewhere.

I wish I could find a document stating it, but I can attest this is true, as it was part of a presentation done by TLG at BrickFair Virginia in 2013.

[EVO97]

I hope that they don't cancel Hero Factory now. I really like the new direction that the sets have taken.

[DraikNova]

Five percent is still quite a lot, although I think only a small part (at most one fifth, although one twelfth seems more likely) is an action figure fan. It's still a much greater percentage than almost any other brand.

[VBBN]

Okay, I'm not saying you're wrong, but where is the statistical data and the hard proof of that? I want numbers and graphs and so on. I'm asking if any of that information is public or in a database somewhere.

It was released in an issue of The Brick in 2010.

And it looks to stay at around that number

Edit: according to the article that puts the AFOL worth at about 90million. I'm curious to know if the monetary amount has increased or if that has stayed relatively the same as well

[3rdeye88]

I wish I could find a document stating it, but I can attest this is true, as it was part of a presentation done by TLG at BrickFair Virginia in 2013.

Don't suppose there's a video of this?

It was released in an issue of The Brick in 2010.

And it looks to stay at around that number

Edit: according to the article that puts the AFOL worth at about 90million. I'm curious to know if the monetary amount has increased or if that has stayed relatively the same as well

ooo see, that's more like it. Is the Magazine called "The Brick" and is there a possible link to this article on their or a website? I googled it and got a ton of results. "The Brick" is too generic and Brick Magazine is a bianual literary journal...that's not what I wanted was it?

Like I said before, I don't doubt you guys, I'd just like to see for myself from the actual source.

Edited February 14, 2014 by 3rdeye88

[Pate-keetongu]

If I remember correctly, The Brick is (or was) TLC:s own, business-oriented internet journal. But I remember only reading a couple of them a few years ago. But I suppose it is a trustworthy source.

(Actually, I was surprised with 5%. I would have guessed lower. There's lots of kids after all.)

Edited February 14, 2014 by pig

[VBBN]

ooo see, that's more like it. Is the Magazine called "The Brick" and is there a possible link to this article on their or a website? I googled it and got a ton of results. "The Brick" is too generic and Brick Magazine is a bianual literary journal...that's not what I wanted was it?

Like I said before, I don't doubt you guys, I'd just like to see for myself from the actual source.

It is an actual source, that was the figure published by Lego (The Brick was aimed at a financial basis of customers, to talk about what is new and developing, giving future outlooks on the company, and discussing shareholdings, etc.)

Though I do wonder how exactly they figure these numbers. How do they know a kid is buying a set if it's going on the parents credit card? My guess is they make a hypothetical function to determine that for every x number of people there are x number of AFOLs. They most likely figure that sets aimed more toward afols (high price tag sets, Architecture, etc) are meant more for AFOLs themselves. If an adult buy a 100$ playset for their kid, or a 100$ set for parts for themselves, Lego can't accurately figure that number.

Just to keep things more focused on the discussion at hand here, this is the reason Lego constantly recycles it's themes. (I'm most likely about to repeat a bit of what has been said previously here) If Bionicle did come back, they would be targeting a completely different generation of kids, as that would be their major sales target. It would have to have a story that was easy to pick up on, and the sets would likely continue along with the style that has been established by Hero factory (the "buildable action figure" as opposed to whatever they considered Bionicle). I think lego is more likely to explore a new theme instead of reverting to the old, however this has of course been disproven in other themes. Town sees the return of Police or Fire almost every other year, star wars constantly rehashes old sets, and some themes are brought back from the dead (space police, aqua raiders, Agents) and then there is a rare exception such as benny's classic space ship, which gives fans of the classic era a nod, not an entire theme though unfortunately. So While I hope Bionicle were to come back, logically guessing i would say something new will come, and will replace Hero Factory once they believe the target audience is no longer as interested in it. A rather obvious statement, but something to keep in mind

[Meiko]

Don't suppose there's a video of this?

I was going to film it but last-minute they were told they couldn't allow videography.

[dviddy]

Okay, I'm not saying you're wrong, but where is the statistical data and the hard proof of that? I want numbers and graphs and so on. I'm asking if any of that information is public or in a database somewhere.

You will not get numbers or graphs, as TLG does not disclose that sort of information to the public. As has been mentioned, this is the number that TLG themselves gives at every major speaking engagement with AFOLs. They gave it at BricksCascade in 2013, BrickfairVA 2013, and again at Brickcon 2013 (and probably all the others, those were just the ones I attended personally).

I don't know how they come upon that number, but they do seem to do a great deal of market research. I'm sure they have more than just guesses to back that up. Five percent is not insignificant, which is why we see sets purposefully targeting AFOLs, but it is not enough market share to push us more into the focus of product design.

[3rdeye88]

You will not get numbers or graphs, as TLG does not disclose that sort of information to the public. As has been mentioned, this is the number that TLG themselves gives at every major speaking engagement with AFOLs. They gave it at BricksCascade in 2013, BrickfairVA 2013, and again at Brickcon 2013 (and probably all the others, those were just the ones I attended personally).

I don't know how they come upon that number, but they do seem to do a great deal of market research. I'm sure they have more than just guesses to back that up. Five percent is not insignificant, which is why we see sets purposefully targeting AFOLs, but it is not enough market share to push us more into the focus of product design.

Alright, thank you for that. I suppose if this is something they talk about only in presentations at conventions and photography isn't allowed there probably isn't a linkable source to it. That's a shame. I agree with you, if its that small then we are definitely not in mind when they produce the majority of their sets. Thanks for providing as best an answer you could.

[Anexcuse]

Although I'm not sure what will happen relating to HF's demise, I sure hope if they still use the same build system that LEGO will make the sets more diverse-looking. For example the queen beast and most of the machines in the Hero Factory summer 2014 sets shown.

If they did bring Bionicle back, I would be delighted! (I'd pretty much buy every single set, possibly duplicates). Mostly I just miss the Matoran and all the masks; for some reason I just prefer the masks being less iconic or specialised. (Although others may see that the masks in Bionicle are more iconic and specialised than the Hero Factory ones, but I just feel the Hero Factory ones are more specialised, considering the heroes are always the same people, just upgraded. Bionicle did have upgrades to Toa, but more often than not they changed it to a different team)

Edited February 21, 2014 by Anexcuse

[3rdeye88]

It is an actual source, that was the figure published by Lego (The Brick was aimed at a financial basis of customers, to talk about what is new and developing, giving future outlooks on the company, and discussing shareholdings, etc.)

Though I do wonder how exactly they figure these numbers. How do they know a kid is buying a set if it's going on the parents credit card? My guess is they make a hypothetical function to determine that for every x number of people there are x number of AFOLs. They most likely figure that sets aimed more toward afols (high price tag sets, Architecture, etc) are meant more for AFOLs themselves. If an adult buy a 100$ playset for their kid, or a 100$ set for parts for themselves, Lego can't accurately figure that number.

Just to keep things more focused on the discussion at hand here, this is the reason Lego constantly recycles it's themes. (I'm most likely about to repeat a bit of what has been said previously here) If Bionicle did come back, they would be targeting a completely different generation of kids, as that would be their major sales target. It would have to have a story that was easy to pick up on, and the sets would likely continue along with the style that has been established by Hero factory (the "buildable action figure" as opposed to whatever they considered Bionicle). I think lego is more likely to explore a new theme instead of reverting to the old, however this has of course been disproven in other themes. Town sees the return of Police or Fire almost every other year, star wars constantly rehashes old sets, and some themes are brought back from the dead (space police, aqua raiders, Agents) and then there is a rare exception such as benny's classic space ship, which gives fans of the classic era a nod, not an entire theme though unfortunately. So While I hope Bionicle were to come back, logically guessing i would say something new will come, and will replace Hero Factory once they believe the target audience is no longer as interested in it. A rather obvious statement, but something to keep in mind

Agreed, and keeping that in mind, I don't want them to bring Bionicle back. When asking whether He would ever reunite the band Kyuss, Josh Homme(Queens Of The Stone Age, Them Crooked Vultures, Kyuss, Desert Sessions) says "no because It was special, and I don't want to bring it back just to rub my dick all over it" and Bionicle coming back in a stripped down simplified version of what Hero Factory is now would be exactly that. I think we just need to be happy for the time it had and move on. Its not like Hero Factory as a system of building doesn't work with Bionicle. I maintain that the two actually extremely well and both make up for the other's short comings.

I think if Lego did bring Bionicle back in some way, it should be in another several years, and as that kind of nod to the era, like benny's spaceship. Pull the old molds out of storage and make a nice promotional set or something. Something in the lego Movie sequel would be pretty rad to. A bionicle figure in a Lego Movie set along with some system stuff? How rad would that be?

[dviddy]

Just an FYI, most BIONICLE molds have been officially retired, which means buried in concrete under a warehouse. That is why the Rahkshi star had a new head and back mold instead of using just a new back mold.

[3rdeye88]

Just an FYI, most BIONICLE molds have been officially retired, which means buried in concrete under a warehouse. That is why the Rahkshi star had a new head and back mold instead of using just a new back mold.

Okay...I'll believe that when I see it. I like how everyone is just supposed to take everyone else's word for things around here. Where's the proof that lego does that?

[Bfahome]

Okay...I'll believe that when I see it. I like how everyone is just supposed to take everyone else's word for things around here. Where's the proof that lego does that?

Given that DV here has probably had more interaction with LEGO than the rest of us combined, I'm willing to take his word.

Plus a while ago Front said that a lot of the old molds were "destroyed", or something along those lines.

As unfortunate s it is, we probably won't be seeing any of the old stuff in the future.

[Jetrax99]

And Front's a LEGO employee to boot (I believe....right?) If he says old molds are done away with, who are we to say that isn't true.

[Bfahome]

And Front's a LEGO employee to boot (I believe....right?) If he says old molds are done away with, who are we to say that isn't true.

Yes. He's a part designer.

[dviddy]

Okay...I'll believe that when I see it. I like how everyone is just supposed to take everyone else's word for things around here. Where's the proof that lego does that?

Jamie Berard (set designer, designed the Parisian Cafe), Kevin Hinkle (the Americas Community Team Rep), Kelly McKiernan (no longer with the company, but the former LEGO webmaster), Jim Foulds (no longer with the company, but the former Communuty Team Lead), and Steve Witt (who is also no longer with the company but held Kevin Hinkle's position at one point), and various other designers I've talked to, have all said that in order to keep molds that have been officially retired a company secret TLG buries them, or at least used to (and they specifically mentioned the original Kanohi lineup being buried in concrete under a warehouse or the company HQ, I can never remember which). I go to a lot of conventions, and these things are usually in the random talks LEGO reps give.

[3rdeye88]

Jamie Berard (set designer, designed the Parisian Cafe), Kevin Hinkle (the Americas Community Team Rep), Kelly McKiernan (no longer with the company, but the former LEGO webmaster), Jim Foulds (no longer with the company, but the former Communuty Team Lead), and Steve Witt (who is also no longer with the company but held Kevin Hinkle's position at one point), and various other designers I've talked to, have all said that in order to keep molds that have been officially retired a company secret TLG buries them, or at least used to (and they specifically mentioned the original Kanohi lineup being buried in concrete under a warehouse or the company HQ, I can never remember which). I go to a lot of conventions, and these things are usually in the random talks LEGO reps give.

Aaaaand like I said, when I get actual proof of it from them or an official source from lego I'll believe it instead of taking your word for it. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Its all hearsay. So sorry if I'm not inclined to just believe what someone on a forum says.

But in the spirit of entertaining the discussion, that seems pretty drastic. What if they wanted to use the part again? Someone get the jack hammer?

[Leewan]

What if they wanted to use the part again? Someone get the jack hammer?

Make a new mold. They certainly keep the files needed to machine the molds. I think that's what happened with Johnny Thunder's hat, which idn't produced since 2005, but which will come back this summer. But this is just a supposition from me, I don't have actual proof of what I'm saying.

[dviddy]

Aaaaand like I said, when I get actual proof of it from them or an official source from lego I'll believe it instead of taking your word for it. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Its all hearsay. So sorry if I'm not inclined to just believe what someone on a forum says.

But in the spirit of entertaining the discussion, that seems pretty drastic. What if they wanted to use the part again? Someone get the jack hammer?

They either remake the mold or redesign it.

Rolling my eyes at your skepticism. Those are all TLG employees who make convention rounds, and are official mouthpieces for the company.

[Bob C]

Make a new mold. They certainly keep the files needed to machine the molds. I think that's what happened with Johnny Thunder's hat, which idn't produced since 2005, but which will come back this summer. But this is just a supposition from me, I don't have actual proof of what I'm saying.

I have a feeling it's easier to hack into a computer than break into the LEGO factory and steal the molds.

Make a new mold. They certainly keep the files needed to machine the molds. I think that's what happened with Johnny Thunder's hat, which idn't produced since 2005, but which will come back this summer. But this is just a supposition from me, I don't have actual proof of what I'm saying.

but I'm sure they have a paper version

[Bfahome]

Aaaaand like I said, when I get actual proof of it from them or an official source from lego I'll believe it instead of taking your word for it. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Its all hearsay. So sorry if I'm not inclined to just believe what someone on a forum says.

Then ask them yourself? Otherwise all you're ever going to get is second-hand accounts.

I have a feeling it's easier to hack into a computer than break into the LEGO factory and steal the molds.

There could be a safe full of external hard drives for all we know.

It'd be pretty difficult to hack that.

[3rdeye88]

They either remake the mold or redesign it.

Rolling my eyes at your skepticism. Those are all TLG employees who make convention rounds, and are official mouthpieces for the company.

Which I'm not hearing from them, I'm hearing from you. Well since they talk about it at conventions I don't suppose emailing Kevin would allow for that? I imagine there's some kind of "word of mouth is okay, anything else isn't" rule. Regardless of what they actually do, the plans or layout or machining data is somewhere on hand if they wanna pull out an oldie. Who knows maybe all the molds are in Antarctica next to Walt Disney's head or something *conspiracy theory* Lol

Then ask them yourself? Otherwise all you're ever going to get is second-hand accounts.

There could be a safe full of external hard drives for all we know.

It'd be pretty difficult to hack that.

If I ever get the chance I will do just that. And its like you say, it could be this it could be that for all we know. The simple truth of the matter is we don't truly know.

Make a new mold. They certainly keep the files needed to machine the molds. I think that's what happened with Johnny Thunder's hat, which idn't produced since 2005, but which will come back this summer. But this is just a supposition from me, I don't have actual proof of what I'm saying.

Leewan makes a very good point. Will it be the exact same hat or will they tweak it a bit and be a new mold? Old mold can make a return when they want them to. So all bets are off.

[WARHEAD]

I hope they don't bring old molds back in whichever form. New stuff will always be more interesting than what we've already seen. As long as it's compatible with earlier systems that is and seeing as it's Lego, it's bound to be, in one for or another.