Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Kalhiki]

Guys, Im on the reboot side. Once again I have nothing to base it on. But yall blow me away with the continuation stuff.

YOU HAVE 10 YEARS WORTH OF STORY

Why would you continue a story that ended? its 10 years! The story ended well, why do you want to go back??

It's not that I want the story to pick up where it left off, it's just that I want it in the same universe and continuity. I've said it before: just put the new story far enough in the future to where the original story doesn't really matter.

[TheDesuComplex]

I'm all for the apparent reboot, as it simply re-tells a similar story in a new way without invalidating the old one. I'd much rather it then a 'far into the future' continuation, as that sounds a bit of a cop out to me.

[Chro]

I'm all for the apparent reboot, as it simply re-tells a similar story in a new way without invalidating the old one. I'd much rather it then a 'far into the future' continuation, as that sounds a bit of a cop out to me.

This.

[arc]

While unlikely, has anyone considered the idea of a prequel?

[Mr. Gundam]

I'm all for the apparent reboot, as it simply re-tells a similar story in a new way without invalidating the old one. I'd much rather it then a 'far into the future' continuation, as that sounds a bit of a cop out to me.

Yeah thats where I'm coming from. Characters can live for thousands if not tens of thousands of years. Putting it 'far into the future' wouldn't negate a close continuation.

As for the loopholes in the story after THE END, It would be odd if they try to fill in the answers in this storyline. I'm a 'go with the flow' kind of guy. Loopholes and Loose ends doesn't seems that important as the main story. So once its complete we all just wipe our hands of the whole mess and do something different.

Thanks guys for the explanation for those three elements, I do wish they could be the main characters for 2015 just so I could understand how TLG would use their abilities in a storyline.

[Kalhiki]

I don't see how a prequel could really work considering we have the Toa Mata. The Mata were in Karda Nui before they came to Mata Nui. And, well, that's where the story starts.

The reason why I'd like a future setting in the old continuity is because I'm tied to these characters. While Bio15 has characters with the same names, they're still different entities. I just feel I'll have a hard time connecting with the new Toa Mata since they don't have all the story under their belts that the old Mata had. They aren't the characters I grew up with.

Having the story far into the future would not only please me and those like me, but it would also please those who want a reboot since it wouldn't have to be tied directly to the old story.

Not to mention, I kinda like the whole "trouble in paradise" kind of story. Spherus Magna has years of peace and then new baddies show up.

[Timeline15]

I don't see people's problem with a continuation in any way. It wouldn't have to make the story convoluted. Just take the old story , and replace the name "Mata-Nui", with "Spherus Magna". Just Have a great being instead of Makuta. Only a vague background would be needed. You don't need to have encyclopaedic knowledge of Bionicle lore to grasp "the great beings created these guys, and now they're trying to destroy them".

[Bigger Fish]

Actually it was explained quite well by Greg that the GB didn't make Plantlife a mayor element in the Matoran Universe simply because they were inside a robot, where air was a much more common element than plants and wildlife in general.

On the topic of Earth and Stone, I always confused them when I was a kiddo, but still I find quite satisfying the explanation that dirt and rocks are different things, and therefore deserve different elements.

In the project I'm working on, which is a homage to Bionicle, the earth controller also has slight control over fossils, metal, and technology while the stone user namely fights close combat using his element to aid him and could also control sand.

[GK733]

I don't see people's problem with a continuation in any way. It wouldn't have to make the story convoluted. Just take the old story , and replace the name "Mata-Nui", with "Spherus Magna". Just Have a great being instead of Makuta. Only a vague background would be needed. You don't need to have encyclopaedic knowledge of Bionicle lore to grasp "the great beings created these guys, and now they're trying to destroy them".

They teased us so much with Great Beings in the end that I'm eager to find more. Are they actually godlike beings or are they just masters of manipulation and in truth, some of them (more than just Velika) against everything they created for some unknown reason.

[Evex_Wolfwing]

Interesting that you should mention that. Myself and a bunch of my IRL friends actually put together a BIONICLE-based D&D campaign. Everyone is a Toa, and upon levelling up, you can put the level into either Fighter, which increases your physical stats, or Adept, which unlocks a new Elemental ability. It's pretty tight and I've only almost died twice. One of my friends is a Toa of Gravity, and another was a Toa of Magnetism. We argued that Magnetism was a redundant element when the Toa of Gravity could do basically the same thing, but without the need to be working with metal. He said it was okay because one of us was going as a Fe-Toa, so he would use said Fe-Toa as a projectile. Needless to say, that guy chose to play a Ta-Toa instead. Also, the Magnetism guy never took any Adept levels, and most of his weapons were shurikens and throwing knives, the idea being that he manipulated them all with his powers. Which he never took a level in. And then he tried to melee a Dark Hunter that would've made General Grievous envious. With throwing knives. THis ended about as well as you'd expect, so the Gravity vs. Magnetism thing sort of resolved itself before it became an issue. The guy's new character is a Toa of Lightning, and so far, he has played her much more competantly.

Meanwhile, I took Plasma as my element. Quite a few of Adept abilities were drawn from Fire and Lightning, and I have an increased resistance to both, though I can't absorb them. My primary weapon is a Plasma blade, which essentially works like a Lightsaber (Because that's what Lightsabers are), and I recently unlocked the ability to create Toa-sized clouds of Plasma. which, being a superheated gas, has been very useful for limiting enemy movement.

Of course, that's not to say that the group has been entirely without stupidity. We've all had some pretty dumb moments, but that's getting off-topic. I'll discuss that when I get around to posting the MOC I made of my character.

I would love to play that!

[Shakar]

THe thing with complaining about HF cliffhangers is that HF is an ongoing story/toyline, or at least it was. However, the way HF does things would be like BIONICLE revealing the Bohrok at the end of the MNOG, and then doing something completely different the next year. BIONICLE's serials ended without resolution, but that was because the toyline had ended, so Greg wasn't getting paid for it anymore, and he had a load of other things to do to put bread on the table, especially since the amount of mouths he had to feed had just increased.

Interesting that you should mention that. Myself and a bunch of my IRL friends actually put together a BIONICLE-based D&D campaign. Everyone is a Toa, and upon levelling up, you can put the level into either Fighter, which increases your physical stats, or Adept, which unlocks a new Elemental ability. It's pretty tight and I've only almost died twice. One of my friends is a Toa of Gravity, and another was a Toa of Magnetism. We argued that Magnetism was a redundant element when the Toa of Gravity could do basically the same thing, but without the need to be working with metal. He said it was okay because one of us was going as a Fe-Toa, so he would use said Fe-Toa as a projectile. Needless to say, that guy chose to play a Ta-Toa instead. Also, the Magnetism guy never took any Adept levels, and most of his weapons were shurikens and throwing knives, the idea being that he manipulated them all with his powers. Which he never took a level in. And then he tried to melee a Dark Hunter that would've made General Grievous envious. With throwing knives. THis ended about as well as you'd expect, so the Gravity vs. Magnetism thing sort of resolved itself before it became an issue. The guy's new character is a Toa of Lightning, and so far, he has played her much more competantly.

Meanwhile, I took Plasma as my element. Quite a few of Adept abilities were drawn from Fire and Lightning, and I have an increased resistance to both, though I can't absorb them. My primary weapon is a Plasma blade, which essentially works like a Lightsaber (Because that's what Lightsabers are), and I recently unlocked the ability to create Toa-sized clouds of Plasma. which, being a superheated gas, has been very useful for limiting enemy movement.

Of course, that's not to say that the group has been entirely without stupidity. We've all had some pretty dumb moments, but that's getting off-topic. I'll discuss that when I get around to posting the MOC I made of my character.

Very interesting overall. I never realized how redundant some elements were till we started discussing them here. Well, I thought about Gali and Kopaka essentially controlling the same element in different states (and good thing we never got a Toa of Steam :P), but I never thought of combining the two given how different they are as characters. I guess Lightning and Plasma are essentially the same as well, plus according to some science articles fire is plasma, so...

Kinda surprising how much redundancy there is once you start to take a more critical and/or scientific view or the matter. I always did think BIONICLE elements were a bit too specific (Psionics, seriously?), heck some aren't even elements (Magnetism and Gravity), which is why I always felt a bit uneasy using some of them. On the other hand, however, it makes for a great variety of colours and designs, which is probably one of the reasons for BIONICLE's success (and before BIONICLE, that of Slizers and..ahem... of Roboriders, I guess).

As for the reboot vs continuation issue, I'm torn. A reboot would open to so many possibilities but the risk is for the story to not live up to the original one (let's be honest- even if the new premise is completely different, people will inevitably compare the two).

If handled well a continuation could be very interesting, as long as it strays away from the mess 2009 onwards had become. It took us 8 years for the Mata Nui=giant robot and MU reveal and we still have Bota Magna to explore and the Great Beings to face (after the Makuta, they seem like the natural step up as the next major antagonists). The story could continue for another 10 years.

Granted though, I'm not that happy with some reveals we got post-2010 (like the Red Star and its mass reviving abilities) and the way some really interesting characters were handled *coughKarzahnicough*, but it's up to Lego to decide how many things should or not be retconned.

[Kalhiki]

I don't see people's problem with a continuation in any way. It wouldn't have to make the story convoluted. Just take the old story , and replace the name "Mata-Nui", with "Spherus Magna". Just Have a great being instead of Makuta. Only a vague background would be needed. You don't need to have encyclopaedic knowledge of Bionicle lore to grasp "the great beings created these guys, and now they're trying to destroy them".

This.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Kalhiki

[Lord-Vorahk]

I would love to play that!

I might be able to get the rules for you, and when I post the relevant MOCs, I'll probably bring some anecdotes from the game so far, which I'll update when appropriate. THe only thing is that my friend made the Adept spells as they became necessary, so currently only Plasma, Fire, Gravity, Ice, and Magnetism have a full list. Lightning will be getting one soon, as will Psionics, because there's a plot-relevant NPC who is a Ce-Toa.

I actually really like Psionics as an element (Psychic is my favourite Pokemon type too). It's best considered to be the easiest way to say "Telekinesis and Telepathy". Really, Psionics is among the most overpowered elements in the franchise. Immune to most forms of mental attack? Check. Can completely destabilize enemy groups? Yup. Brainwash people? Unethical, but yes. Never lose a weapon? Indeed. One of the best colour schemes? Hell yeah.

Actually, I thought of something: We've been running this game via Roll20, which is a tabletop game site, and using Skype to communicate, because Roll20's chat is borked. How many people would actually be interested in playing a form of this?

[davidr]

Guys, this can't be a complete reboot, they have to create a whole new story, otherwise, as GregF several times said in his topic on lego.com, any child can find the old bionicle on the internet and read the whole story. They can either make a completely new continuation with different plots, or they can set the story on Spherus Magna far in the future. The matoran universe itself is already explored enough to be "dangerous" for new fans. So I think that they will make this a continuation.

[Dorek]

Guys, this can't be a complete reboot, they have to create a whole new story, otherwise, as GregF several times said in his topic on lego.com, any child can find the old bionicle on the internet and read the whole story. They can either make a completely new continuation with different plots, or they can set the story on Spherus Magna far in the future. The matoran universe itself is already explored enough to be "dangerous" for new fans. So I think that they will make this a continuation.

I recall him also saying several times that in order to attract new audiences, they would be foolish to rely on past history.

The thing about setting the story far into the future (a "soft reboot", as it were) is that it doesn't take into account the fact that we have these characters that we already know. Tahu and co., assuming they are the main characters, would need to be reintroduced in such a way that is in keeping with their existing history, muting the fact that there needs to be a soft reboot at all. Any misstep there will undoubtedly rub the returning franchisers the wrong way; while they aren't the target audience, what would be the point of a continuation at all if they aren't going to acknowledge what came before?

[Bfahome]

Guys, this can't be a complete reboot, they have to create a whole new story, otherwise, as GregF several times said in his topic on lego.com, any child can find the old bionicle on the internet and read the whole story. They can either make a completely new continuation with different plots, or they can set the story on Spherus Magna far in the future. The matoran universe itself is already explored enough to be "dangerous" for new fans. So I think that they will make this a continuation.

I don't get why "reboot" is being taken to mean "tell the exact same story again".

[Lord-Vorahk]

Yeah, people seem to be confusing "Reboot" and "Remake".

Remakes retell the story. Reboots reset it to square one and then go in a different direction.

For example, in the 2011-2012 period, there was a sudden spike in reboot fanfiction within the Archie Sonic fandom, because the actual comic was not only devolving into utter dreck, but it was also at such a point where you couldn't write an in-continuity story without it being about Mecha Sally. So people took the characters and reset the timeline, enabling the creation of a new universe. Of the five or so I was following/a part of writing, three are still ongoing, and all of them are damn good. But none of them remade the existing stories. Sure, there were adaptation arcs here and there, but otherwise, they're new universes.

[Lind Whisperer]

If these sets have a jungle background...why can't they be set on the relatively untouched Bota Magna, or in that area on the fused Spherus Magna?

I really hope they don't go with a reboot. That never goes well:

Star Wreck

*: The Drunken Frat

Jerk Jock

Years

The Amazingly Poor Role Model Spiderman

And, a quick nod must be made to the upcoming

Star Wars VII: The Disney Empires Strikes Down Thirty Years of Beloved Fandom

*Also known under the foreign release title: Star Wrek: Lens Flares Are Not the Same Thing As Plot

On the good side of things, this is LEGO. When I found out that Ninjago was continuing under the name Ninjago: Rebooted, I was understandably irate. Then, when they revealed that it was a deliberate joke, I had a good laugh. So, it's not like LEGO doesn't have some idea of how hated reboots are. Also, Bionicle was one of the most beloved projects of its time, and with LEGO's tendency to not lay off workers (other than that one project ), it's highly likely that a large portion of the original creators are still there. I'm fairly sure that they can find a way to make the story fit so that it's both new, and not a reboot. LEGO isn't some evil entity, they just want to make money. And, Bionicle has many, many, dollars still left in the story-line.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Lind Whisperer

[Aethersprite]

I'm all for a reboot. Same characters, different story. Transformers has done it a gazillion times and while it does make it confusing at times, it allows the creative team more freedom in terms of both the story and toys. While a remake would be nice (I'd love to get a new Lhikan!), it would also restrict Lego's creative team in terms of the sets they can design and the direction they can bring the story in.

You guys are also forgetting that one of the reasons for Bionicle's end was the fact that its complex story made it difficult for new fans to get into it. Why would Lego continue the existing story, if that was what made them decide to end it in the first place? I've been a Bionicle fan since the beginning, but my knowledge of it is limited to what Lego gave us in the mainstream media - catalogues, online comics, movies, etc. I had no idea characters like the Great Beings existed. I'd like if the reboot/remake kept it simple, giving us new takes on existing heroes and villains. I'm not saying Lego should oversimplify the story like they did with HF (though that move did have its merits, which many of you have brought up); I'm all for a great story with deep mythology. It's just that a continuation would be quite counterintuitive in terms of limiting the ways they can move the story forward.

[Lord-Vorahk]

I think the Star Wars EU had to be shafted if they wanted to make more movies, and why wouldn't they want to make more movies?

If a reboot works or not depends on who's writing it. Movie reboots? Yeah, those rarely succeed. Dark Knight saga notwithstanding, of course.

In other media? It can be a different story:

Using Transformers as an example, let's look at the original cartoon, compared to the IDW comics or the recent Aligned universe, which includes the WFC/FOC games, and the TFP cartoon. Both reboots are miles ahead of the original. I could argue the same for Transformers Animated too.

Looking at those fics I mentioned earlier, while I can't speak for the first, as I'm a cowriter on it, the second two are miles ahead of anything that Sonic Team or Archie are putting out.

A reboot can be equal to, or even superior, than the original. It just takes skilled writers.

With the Ninjago reboot, they were simply un-cancelling it without a huge gap. Bionicle has been gone for five years. Picking up the original story isn't going to make any sense.

[Aedai Rivin]

As used in fantasy settings, plasma is..really hot stuff, basically. It's what lightning, stars and other things (like aurora boeralis, curiously enough) are made of so to speak, so it's actually a very hax power if used correctly.

Plus white and orange! Of all the secondary elements that got their colour canonized, I think plasma got it best. The other elements used colour schemes that were done already- like gravity (black and purple, like some Onu-Matoran) or lightning (blue and white, like some Ko-Matoran)..or were downright boring, like Sonics or Magnetism.

Magnetism should have definitely been red and blue, like the north and south ends of a magnet.

Sonics was fine as grey.

Gravity was great as purple.

[Lind Whisperer]

I'm all for a reboot. Same characters, different story. Transformers has done it a gazillion times and while it does make it confusing at times, it allows the creative team more freedom in terms of both the story and toys.

Actually, all Transfomers stories exist in the same multiverse. So, no, they don't actually reboot, they just switch a la DC to a new universe.

I think the Star Wars EU had to be shafted if they wanted to make more movies, and why wouldn't they want to make more movies?

I understand Disney's need to crank out low budget plots to sell toys to children. I don't agree with their "need" to just haphazardly throw out 30 years of canon. I understand that the post-RotJ canon was filled with problems, and I don't try to stand in their way on that. But to throw out such gems as KoTOR in the same trash can as Splinter of the Mind's Eye? No. No, no, and no. There is a reason that that game made best of 2002.

A reboot can be equal to, or even superior, than the original. It just takes skilled writers.

No argument. But, you have to have skilled writers to have skilled writers. The only studios that even try to write a decent script* anymore are Marvel and Pixar.

*I'm specifically talking about sci-fi. Although, to be honest, this applies almost as much to the average slice of movie offerings nowadays.

[dviddy]

If these sets have a jungle background...why can't they be set on the relatively untouched Bota Magna, or in that area on the fused Spherus Magna?

I really hope they don't go with a reboot. That never goes well:

Star Wreck

*: The Drunken Frat

Jerk Jock

Years

The Amazingly Poor Role Model Spiderman

And, a quick nod must be made to the upcoming

Star Wars VII: The Disney Empires Strikes Down Thirty Years of Beloved Fandom

*Also known under the foreign release title: Star Wrek: Lens Flares Are Not the Same Thing As Plot

On the good side of things, this is LEGO. When I found out that Ninjago was continuing under the name Ninjago: Rebooted, I was understandably irate. Then, when they revealed that it was a deliberate joke, I had a good laugh. So, it's not like LEGO doesn't have some idea of how hated reboots are. Also, Bionicle was one of the most beloved projects of its time, and with LEGO's tendency to not lay off workers (other than that one project ), it's highly likely that a large portion of the original creators are still there. I'm fairly sure that they can find a way to make the story fit so that it's both new, and not a reboot. LEGO isn't some evil entity, they just want to make money. And, Bionicle has many, many, dollars still left in the story-line.

Both those franchises had reboot films that were better than the "original" films. Amazing Spider-Man has ben lambasted by several critics and fans of the Raimi trilogy (I can't believe that trilogy has fans), but as a Spider-Man geek, the new films understand the interplay between Peter Parker and Spider-Man better than any other adapatation. Webb gets Spider-Man as a character. He gets Peter Parker. And Trek09 is better than Star Trek II. Not a joke.

That is all said to say that your idea that reboots "always suck" is misguided. You didn't like those ones, but plenty of other people did. The New Trek movies reinvigorated what had become a dead franchise. Much the way a rebooted BIONICLE will take the original concept and attempt to bring new life to something that had far wilted in its last years.

Like I said, based on the information we have from Greg, and speculating based on the images and character reveals in the leaked images- it is going to be a hard reboot.

[TheGreatSpirit]

And Trek09 is better than Star Trek II. Not a joke.

Also, while I admit that Amazing Spider-Man was better than the first trilogy, Amazing Spider-Man 2 sucked.

[Lind Whisperer]

That is all said to say that your idea that reboots "always suck"...

I never said that reboots 'always suck,' I said "They* never go well". Completely different.

Saying that I said that they 'always suck' implies childishness about this, when in fact I am trying to have a calm, adult conversation. Let's try to be a little bit more accurate when we quote, shall we?

*Actually, I said "That", not "They", but the point still stands.