Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Bfahome]

I never said that reboots 'always suck,' I said "They* never go well". Completely different.

No, only slightly different. Same basic statement behind both. "Reboots are bad."

I am trying to have a calm, adult conversation

>Star Wrek: Lens Flares Are Not the Same Thing As Plot

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>Star Wars VII: The Disney Empires Strikes Down Thirty Years of Beloved Fandom

Frankly I don't get why some people (including you) are so against the idea of a reboot. What's so terrible about a completely clean slate when the story starts again? Is it really worse than heaping more and more material on top of the 10 years of canon we have already?

[Lind Whisperer]

Because the story is just fine the way it is. It doesn't need to be continually restarted to make more money. Having a long running canon is not the same thing as "heaping more and more material". If the writers are poor, than it can turn out that way, but if they are skilled at their work, it means that you have a pleasant, on-going story that you can enjoy the continuation of on a regular basis.

Why was I parodying the movies names? Because being a consumer gives me the right to express my feelings about a franchise - that's a fact that few people seem to get. The fans of a franchise are the reason that the franchise continues to exist. We have a right to express how we feel when a company chooses to take a new direction. I choose to express my feelings through parody.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Lind Whisperer

[TheDesuComplex]

I was too going to use the Transformers example in why I'm saying that a reboot would be good because 1)later iterations brought welcome changes 2)new takes on the same basic character are very refreshing and 3)diversity in the way the story is told leads to new developments that strengthen the franchise for the better. I doubt that the new Bionicle will have quite the same depth, but I certainly don't think that's a bad thing as it could give a chance for greater creativity from the story team instead of them being bogged down by past canon. I certainly don't want to leave my head buried in the sand.

[Lord-Vorahk]

Because the story is just fine the way it is.

Except for he part where it was so convoluted that it got the series canned five years ago, you mean?

[Bfahome]

Because the story is just fine the way it is.

Then why keep tacking on more five years after the fact? Why not start a new story to keep the current one preserved as it is?

It doesn't need to be continually restarted to make more money.

It is being restarted to make money. BIONICLE ended back in 2010, and now it looks like a new BIONICLE line is coming in 2015. Whether or not it's "making more money" is irrelevant to how the story is told or what story is told. I could just as easily say "they don't need to keep adding to the same story to make more money".

Having a long running canon is not the same thing as "heaping more and more material". If the writers are poor, than it can turn out that way, but if they are skilled at their work, it means that you have a pleasant, on-going story that you can enjoy the continuation of on a regular basis.

The writers, of course, are a bit of a factor when it comes to determining how well a story is told. But this also has nothing to do with whether or not said story is a continuation of previous material. I could just as easily say "if the writers are skilled, it means that you can enjoy a fresh start every once in a while".

None of the arguments you made logically follow to "… and that's why reboots are bad." I think it's just the nostalgia talking.

[Timeline15]

While I think it's too early to say that the star wars reboot will be bad, Bfahome, I agree about the other 2 franchises. Regarding Bionicle though I would like a continuation simply so we don't re-tread the same character development. The toa Mata had to learn to work as a team, I don't want to see them learn the same thing again. I would also prefer if Jaller and co. were still Toa, rather than stuck as Matoran, or just non-existant.

[Kalhiki]

Or we could have the premise so vague it could be taken either way: completely new story or continuation.

[Timeline15]

That would be difficult to do with the Mata as the main characters. It would become pretty clear whether the past events hat involved them happened or not. However, the stars taught us that Lego are perfectly willing to revert the Nuva to Mata if It means capitalising on nostalgia, so there's no telling what else they'll be willing to change.

[VBBN]

While unlikely, has anyone considered the idea of a prequel?

Just to throw my two cents in on this, the issue with a prequel is that not only is it more limited in scope, but you also know the end result- You know the Toa Mata would live on to be the Nuva and whatnot. Take the 2004/2005 storyline for example. Not once did I feel the Toa were actually in danger of dying, because we all know that they become the Turaga. Vakama clearly was not going to stay on 'the dark side.' Granted they did a decent job with giving them some storyline in the books, but I found what happened from 2001-2003 and 2006 onwards to me more interesting because there was mystery, suspense, etc. When I reached the end of the first book in 2006, I couldn't wait for the next to come out. I never felt that same way with 04/05, but that's just my personal preference.

[Bfahome]

In terms of a prequel, there's a possibility that it could be set way before anything. The "Toa Mata" of 2015 could be the in-story inspiration for the original six. It could build the basis for the '01-'10 story without being directly tied to it.

It would still be limiting, but not so much as to take all the suspense or mystery out of it.

[Leewan]

The "Toa Mata" of 2015 could be the in-story inspiration for the original six. It could build the basis for the '01-'10 story without being directly tied to it.

That would be disappointing IMO. x/

[davidr]

I have one question: how would rebooting the series benefit TLG?

They would have to create completely new plots. Also, dumping the 10 years of story would make a lot of old fans disappointed in the line and they wouldn't buy the sets in turn (let's say that it could be even something like 0,8% of profits, which is a lot even though it doesn't seem so). I've never seen Transformers (only these movies and from what I've read (not only) there, it pretty much doesn't count ), but it probably was confusing when they were rebooted for the first time, so Bionicle, which was running for ten years in one continuity, would have a hard time explaining that this Bionicle isn't the old Bionicle, it would get confusing for new fans trying to find information about already existing characters. Bionicle is known for it's (too) deep story, so Lego should want to capitalize on this and make it epic again, while trying their best to keep it simple enough on the surface. In my opinion TLGs best bet would be setting this story far in the future on basicly unexplored Spherus Magna, saying like in 2001 that: Matoran/Agori/defenders (or whatever will the citizens be) lived for ages in peace and then >plot< ..., ancient heroes, Toa Mata, were awoken and their journey to save the >citizens< began.

[Sir Walter Maugham]

Was I the only person who loved the Bionicle sets, but never really followed the story?

[dviddy]

I have one question: how would rebooting the series benefit TLG?

They would have to create completely new plots. Also, dumping the 10 years of story would make a lot of old fans disappointed in the line and they wouldn't buy the sets in turn (let's say that it could be even something like 0,8% of profits, which is a lot even though it doesn't seem so). I've never seen Transformers (only these movies and from what I've read (not only) there, it pretty much doesn't count ), but it probably was confusing when they were rebooted for the first time, so Bionicle, which was running for ten years in one continuity, would have a hard time explaining that this Bionicle isn't the old Bionicle, it would get confusing for new fans trying to find information about already existing characters. Bionicle is known for it's (too) deep story, so Lego should want to capitalize on this and make it epic again, while trying their best to keep it simple enough on the surface. In my opinion TLGs best bet would be setting this story far in the future on basicly unexplored Spherus Magna, saying like in 2001 that: Matoran/Agori/defenders (or whatever will the citizens be) lived for ages in peace and then >plot< ..., ancient heroes, Toa Mata, were awoken and their journey to save the >citizens< began.

No matter what they do, they have to create completely new plots. And as much as I'll bet we'll see some community outreach at some point after the official announcement (whenever that is), AFOLs make up 5% of all LEGO sales. I guarantee you that number is drastically lower for BIONICLE. Considering a good chunk of the original fans are all adults now, TLG should (and most like does) feel free to do whatever they please while keeping only a slight eye on the fanbase. Whatever we all were and are to BIONICLE, a new lineup is going to exist to entice new fans. First and foremost. The original story was named as one of the reasons the line was canceled- it had too much baggage, too much information, and was too complicated and turned potential fans away. TLG will not make the mistake of tying a new BIONICLE line to the original for exactly those reasons.

[TheDesuComplex]

The original story was named as one of the reasons the line was canceled- it had too much baggage, too much information, and was too complicated and turned potential fans away. TLG will not make the mistake of tying a new BIONICLE line to the original for exactly those reasons.

Does anyone remember in 2009 when bioniclestory.com released a summary of everything that had happened 2001-2008? Even as the bare-bones summary it was I remember that thing being so long my brother (who wanted to get into Bionicle) gave up halfway through. Just an example of how the story drove away fans.

[Agent Fusion]

To be fair, that was seven years of story all at once.

[WARHEAD]

Exactly. It would be even worse with the 10 the new fans would be presented with.

I'm up for a reboot. The first, tribal themed, years of Bionicle are the thing that left the biggest impression on me and it seems like that's what we're getting again. Hopefully they manage to pull it off again

But in the end, it's all about the actual toys, and as long as the parts are useful I'm sure I'll love the new line :v

Edited August 15, 2014 by WARHEAD

[TheGreatSpirit]

Does anyone remember in 2009 when bioniclestory.com released a summary of everything that had happened 2001-2008? Even as the bare-bones summary it was I remember that thing being so long my brother (who wanted to get into Bionicle) gave up halfway through. Just an example of how the story drove away fans.

If he couldn't spend 8 minutes to learn the story, then Bionicle probably wasn't the thing for him.

[Gatanui]

Does anyone remember in 2009 when bioniclestory.com released a summary of everything that had happened 2001-2008? Even as the bare-bones summary it was I remember that thing being so long my brother (who wanted to get into Bionicle) gave up halfway through. Just an example of how the story drove away fans.

That video was only like four minutes long...

-Gata

[Lind Whisperer]

And as much as I'll bet we'll see some community outreach at some point after the official announcement (whenever that is), AFOLs make up 5% of all LEGO sales. I guarantee you that number is drastically lower for BIONICLE. Considering a good chunk of the original fans are all adults now...

BIONICLE has one of the strongest on-going fanbases for a retired franchise of all time, if not the strongest. At least a good .5%(and that's a lot) of all MOCs released on MOCpages are BIONICLE based - not counting the MOCs that contain multiple custom Toa in one post. And, let's not forget the thriving BZ Power community - 12 years and still going strong!

LEGO won't lose any money from this, if they stick to the original story. They'll be dealing with a repeat of the ES and RI runs, even at full production. If they throw out the history, though, they'll be dealing with another PoP - just without all the nice tan pieces that fans want to stock up on when they go on discount.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Lind Whisperer

[Dorek]

That video was only like four minutes long...

-Gata

Just because it's condensed doesn't mean it was accessible; there was still a lot of information there. From the perspective of a fan it doesn't appear to be too difficult, but for a newcomer, I can see it being a lot more challenging.

Even with a "prequel series", if there's any overt attempt for placating the previous fanbase by tying it into the same universe or storyline as before, people will always be waiting for the other shoe to drop. For the universes to connect, to see characters that you know, etc. A single wink and nod won't be enough, regardless of what people say, which is precisely why they won't do it at all.

BIONICLE has one of the strongest on-going fanbases for a retired franchise of all time, if not the strongest. At least a good .5%(and that's a lot) of all MOCs released on MOCpages are BIONICLE based - not counting the MOCs that contain multiple custom Toa in one post. And, let's not forget the thriving BZ Power community - 12 years and still going strong!

LEGO won't lose any money from this, if they stick to the original story. They'll be dealing with a repeat of the ES and RI runs, even at full production. If they throw out the history, though, they'll be dealing with another PoP - just without all the nice tan pieces that fans want to stock up on when they go on discount.

Strong fanbases (and I would call BIONICLE's fanbase strength... tenuous) doesn't translate into anything resembling sales, which is another reason why it was axed prior; people who were invested in the story were not buying the sets.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Dorek

[OmastarLovesDonuts]

I still don't get why people are expecting the new line to be a continuation. If there are 10+ years of story that have to be read, then why would LEGO make new fans do that? Just because those of us who are dedicated fans want to see a connection to the old story, it doesn't mean that it will appeal to new audiences. Your average 6-12-year-old, most likely the target audience, is not going to catch up on all that information online just to understand what's going on. I personally want a reboot, mainly because I want to see how the story plays out and if LEGO actually references the old story in minor ways.

[Kalhiki]

It's easy to sum up everything to set up a continuation:

"After millennia of conflict, the Great Spirit Mata Nui defeated his evil brother The Makuta. In the aftermath, he sacrificed his body to replenish the planet from the damage that was done in the battle and stored his spirit in the Mask of Life. Since then the inhabitants lived in peace, until..."

As you can see, this is really the only info that's needed to set up a continuation. We don't need to be told about all the journeys the Toa went on or every battle they had. The only info we need is about the characters: they wear masks of power, they have elemental powers, etc. Heck, they could even blur the lines between Matoran and Agori and Toa and Glatorian to the point where they're the same species. Just say Mata Nui did that when he fixed the planet.

[Kamen Rider Kiva]

It's easy to sum up everything to set up a continuation:

"After millennia of conflict, the Great Spirit Mata Nui defeated his evil brother The Makuta. In the aftermath, he sacrificed his body to replenish the planet from the damage that was done in the battle and stored his spirit in the Mask of Life. Since then the inhabitants lived in peace, until..."

As you can see, this is really the only info that's needed to set up a continuation. We don't need to be told about all the journeys the Toa went on or every battle they had. The only info we need is about the characters: they wear masks of power, they have elemental powers, etc. Heck, they could even blur the lines between Matoran and Agori and Toa and Glatorian to the point where they're the same species. Just say Mata Nui did that when he fixed the planet.

This, all of my this! XD Lol, seriously, that's an amazing way to set up a continuation. :D

[Voxovan]

A lot of people say that you have to know the past years of story to understand the new one - that is false. I got into Bionicle in 2003 - the Mask of Light movie was the first Bionicle-related thing I've ever seen. And even if it was about the 2003 story, the third Bionicle story year, I still was able to enjoy the movie. Heck - it got me interested in Bionicle, even though I knew nothing about the past years, heck! I didn't even know there were any Bionicle series before that movie. The only thing I've got was that short explanation in the beginning of Mask of Light, but that was enough for me to understand what the whole thing is about. And you got that each year - a short explanation what's the story about. "These heroes are searching for that mask. These are the bad guys. This is the island the story takes place in", and that's all. Sure, if somebody wanted to kinda "dig in" the Bionicle story, then sure, he would find it really complex, but you didn't have to know every little detail to buy sets. Did you have to know that Vezon was created when Vezok got hit by the Spear of Fusion to buy it? No, you bought it because it looked cool.

And definitely you don't have to know every little detail of the old story to understand what the new story, set far away in the future, is about. All you need is a simple explanation: "These are the heroes, those are their powers, these are the bad guys, this is the mask they're searching for, go buy our sets". It's always been like that, same with Hero Factory - do you have to know all that weird Legion of Darkness stuff to buy the sets? Do you have to know all that weird stuff to get what the series is about? No :|

But, it's not like I'm all against a reboot - I'm gonna the series anyway, just because it's Bionicle