Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[MakutaDreadscythe]

Have to agree on Fangar and Fluminox owning them personally. Fangar pulls it off better considering the cape and torso build, but still considering he was £3 more than Furno XL at £15 it was a bit disappointing, especially the lack or some sort of back armour.

Also, god forbid you buy Fluminox without modding pieces spare, his bow is horribly awkward and those wings! Eugh!

[Leewan]

So it got me thiking: what if the Toa use new torsos? Something taller (but slightly shorter than the titan torso), with different connection points?

This, for example ?

Beam Torso 9x10 by ToaLeewan, on Flickr

Recreating future sets is boring, time to recreate (possible) future parts.

[pluto7443]

Could I have a quick definition of CCBS?

[GK733]

I feel sad about the fact that Ben10 torsos were never re-used, yeah they were a bit clunky and all but still.

[Creatorman]

Could I have a quick definition of CCBS?

Character Creature Building System. The ball and joint system introduced in 2011 with Hero Factory 2.0. The whole system is pretty much built on a bone and cladding system that uses a ball and socket. You can also add on to the cladding using the bar and clip system, and there is some Technic compatibility.

[Logan McOwen]

Any thoughts on Wave 2 for 2015? Personally, I think that's when we'll see villains, like we usually did with Gen-1 Bionicle. But what kind of villains?

[SirPuddings]

Any thoughts on Wave 2 for 2015? Personally, I think that's when we'll see villains, like we usually did with Gen-1 Bionicle. But what kind of villains?

Something I'd personally like to see would be a shadow toa wave, like how when the toa mata went to fight teridax, they had to battle shadow versions of themselves.

[VBBN]

While I'm sure a lot of people really want to see another "creature" based wave like the Bohrok or Rahkshi to really home in on the reboot idea here, I would really like a more sentient enemy like Piraka, Barraki, Shadow Toa, etc. Perhaps i'm just a bit stale after having so many creature based enemies in Hero Factory (whilst some of the actual sentient enemies were quite goofy)

[Kalhiki]

While I'm sure a lot of people really want to see another "creature" based wave like the Bohrok or Rahkshi to really home in on the reboot idea here, I would really like a more sentient enemy like Piraka, Barraki, Shadow Toa, etc. Perhaps i'm just a bit stale after having so many creature based enemies in Hero Factory (whilst some of the actual sentient enemies were quite goofy)

You're not the only one. I'm still on the fence about the LOSS because he's a creature, but hopefully he'll be sentient. Like you said, after two years of mindless animal enemies, I'm in the mood for some actual villains.

[Aanchir]

From a character standpoint, enemies with real personalities would be a nice change of pace, but at the same time, I'd probably prefer creatures just from a building standpoint. Lord of Skull Spiders is pretty much the only non-humanoid set for the first wave, so another wave of humanoid characters would feel redundant. With that in mind, I dion't think shadow toa would be the way to go.

In Hero Factory, of course, some of the more creative villain designs still had unique personalities — Toxic Reapa, Jawblade, Thornraxx, XT4, etc, while many of the "creature" enemies that people seem so bored of had fairly generic humanoid builds (including many of the Brain Attack villains). But would sentient, non-humanoid villains work as well for BIONICLE? It's hard to say. Hero Factory had an advantage over BIONICLE in some respects because it rarely had to deal with the idea of "species" — most of the villains were robots, and not even specific TYPES of robots necessarily. It was easier to work in completely unique villain designs with completely unique powers and abilities without having to establish just why they were the way they were.

Not sure whether the story would go this route, but if they decided to make the Makuta (or villains like them) a part of the new, rebooted BIONICLE storyline, that could work quite nicely. Despite sharing a species, as shapeshifters they could have all kinds of variety in their designs. And they could effectively serve as a "bigger bad" behind the Skull Spiders.

[Leewan]

But would sentient, non-humanoid villains work as well for BIONICLE? It's hard to say.

What about "sentient" Rahi ?

[Jetrax99]

What about "sentient" Rahi ?

Well, did people like Keetongu? I recall reading that his species is actually a type of Rahi.

EDIT: Just checked BS01. Keetongu is definitely a sentient rahi.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Jetrax99

[GK733]

What about "sentient" Rahi ?

Umm... Morbuzakh?

[Chro]

The Morbuzakh wasn't a Rahi, though it was a sentient non-humanoid living thing, so it may as well count

[Aanchir]

Morbuzakh is also an example of something I hope NOT to see in the new BIONICLE, though — a villain that not only fails to appear in sets, but isn't designed to be buildable using LEGO. Sure, you CAN arguably build a LEGO Morbuzakh (since you can arguably build ANYTHING from LEGO), but such an intent was not obvious from its design. I had the same frustrations with the amorphous enemies of the Throwbots and Roboriders.

Ideally, major foes in BIONICLE should not only look moderately buildable using LEGO, but also buildable using typical constraction building styles. Role-playing with the sets is much less fun if you have to completely imagine the enemy, or settle for a blocky and unconvincing facsimile.

Sentient Rahi could maybe work for BIONICLE, but let's not forget how people complained about the way Hero Factory characters like Raw-Jaw, Waspix, and Scorpio had spoken lines in "Savage Planet". There is a sort of awkward dissonance when characters that basically look like beasts or monsters are every bit as articulate as other heroes and villains. Also keep in mind something I brought up in a topic on BZPower — the first year of the new BIONICLE will basically set the tone for all years to come. Unless intelligent Rahi with well-defined personalities are the norm in the new BIONICLE rather than the exception, it would be a bit misleading to have the majority of Rahi in the first year of sets fall into that category.

[Timeline15]

That was the problem I had with Tren Krom too. It just didn't feel right to have a creature in the Bionicle universe that was blatently not made out of Bionicle pieces, particularly since almost all the other animals were. I get that the pieces were supposed to be the cybernetic bits with the toa, but the other creatures just looked that way (including the more organic glatorians), so having Tren Krom just be a fleshy mass was weird to me.

[Lord-Vorahk]

Maybe something like Keetongu could be done, if we have sentient Rahi again? In WoS, he was clearly intelligent and communicated in some form or another, but he spoke in his own language, save for a few words.

[davidr]

That was the problem I had with Tren Krom too. It just didn't feel right to have a creature in the Bionicle universe that was blatently not made out of Bionicle pieces, particularly since almost all the other animals were. I get that the pieces were supposed to be the cybernetic bits with the toa, but the other creatures just looked that way (including the more organic glatorians), so having Tren Krom just be a fleshy mass was weird to me.

Maybe you could just buy a frozen chicken and say it is Tren Krom?

[Lord-Vorahk]

You could make a mini-sized Tren Krom with Kalmah's head, I suppose.

[Shakar]

You should've finished that sentence.

Yup. You're right. Point taken.

You don't have to be sorry. I totally agree about Tahu. Kopaka seems identical, and even if their arms hide their bodies, Pohatu and Gali certainly don't have the dreadful crotch gap. But when I look ad Kopaka and Lewa, which have the body in a similar position on the box art, I notice that the torso part is more visible on Lewa than on Kopaka ; the black area is more noticeable on Lewa. But I guess the only way to be sure is to wait until reviews.

And the only reason I see for Lewa having a different body is to avoid the "clone syndrome" and make each set more "unique".

Indeed I should have. IIRC I meant to say that I cited 2013 Cragger only because he used a tall Titan torso, while 2014 Cragger used a standard size one. I used the argument on complex limbs to prove that the new Toa don't use the Titan torso and a new one instead, but then I realized a new torso mold would eat the set budget even more than a Titan torso would (less plastic used, but a lot of money spent into the mold). So guess my point is moot.

The gap kinda looks bigger on Lewa and Kopaka, but I think it's just due to the angle, showing more of their black torso underneath. I really don't see Lewa having a taller torso than the others, especially since he's one of the 3 smaller Toa.

This, for example ?

Beam Torso 9x10 by ToaLeewan, on Flickr

Recreating future sets is boring, time to recreate (possible) future parts.

Yup, pretty much. It's the only way I can think of for the Toa torsos to look the way they do. There's still something odd about those torsos right under the shoulders (look at Pohatu and Tahu and you'll see what I mean), but with the pic we have it's impossible to tell.

I can definitely agree that there have also been some duds. I have little love for CHI Sir Fangar or CHI Fluminox, which have pitiful piece counts and incredibly mundane builds for their price point. But I'm hoping we don't see sets like that in the new BIONICLE. Certainly the CCBS is capable of so much more.

Now those were copouts. Sir Fangar was "hey let's make a really tall Hero and slap some Technic on the body!". Meanwhile Fluminox stopped at stage 1- just a really tall Hero, with a simple wing mechanism and a overcomplicated weapon no one really asked for (the first time since Kongu Inika a character gets a crossbow...and we get that? No, I'm not going to count Furno 3.0).

Furno XL was the last humanoid Titan I truly liked- he did have some flaws (oh god, those upper arms) but overall his torso worked quite well, giving him a powerful looking yet unique build for the cape to attach on without feeling gimmicky. Evo XL had some good design, but too much Technic for my tastes.

Personally, I'm far more interested to see how CCBS can be further developed than seeing more Technic builds. Though I admit it's partly due to the fact I suck at building with Technic, lol.

As for the villains, I think this is the last we'll see of the Skull Spiders. As I said before, I'm pretty sure the SS are starter villains to introduce new fans to the Toa, their powers, the world and the plot. I just don't see how they can manage to make other 6 spiders after they introduced its leader a while earlier. Unless "Lord" is a crappy translation and it's just an elite class Spider, that way the rest of the army and its leaders can get revealed in Summer.

It depends on how long they want the story to last, and if they're willing to make 6 months long plots like 2003 or 2011 (their rarity tells me they might not be very popular). If they skip right to Makuta himself, the Summer wave might feature revamped Rahkshi as enemies. Or, the Bohrok and the Bahrag might make a return and so Makuta gets his set in 2016.

And I agree with Aanchir. No non-buildable major characters this time. I'm still bothered by the fact we never got another Teridax set after 2003 (though I guess Maxilos came kind of close, given its colours, build and weapon).

[Lord-Vorahk]

No Teridax was a disappointment, but justified in the story. No excuse for not having models of the GS Robot and the Prototype, though.

[Aanchir]

As for the villains, I think this is the last we'll see of the Skull Spiders. As I said before, I'm pretty sure the SS are starter villains to introduce new fans to the Toa, their powers, the world and the plot. I just don't see how they can manage to make other 6 spiders after they introduced its leader a while earlier. Unless "Lord" is a crappy translation and it's just an elite class Spider, that way the rest of the army and its leaders can get revealed in Summer. [/b][/color]

"Lord of Skull Spiders" is the one name least likely to be a mistranslation, since it was the one name that was given in English when the name list was leaked on exoforce.ru (the other names were provided in Russian).

I think the Skull Spiders are quite possibly supposed to play a role similar to the infected Kanohi or Krana in 2001–2002: a corrupt force that can take the place of a character's mask to control them. Certainly we know the Skull Spiders' torsos are designed to function as masks, since one without legs appears as the bonus gold mask in the Lord of Skull Spiders set. With that in mind, it's possible we might see Rahi controlled by Skull Spiders in the second wave.

No Teridax was a disappointment, but justified in the story. No excuse for not having models of the GS Robot and the Prototype, though.

There's a perfectly good excuse for that. Neither was really designed in a way that could be effectively realized as a small or medium set (or even a $20 titan set), and by the time both robots had entered the story the theme was on its way out. People might not have really liked the BIONICLE Stars, but frankly expecting we would have gotten two $30 or more titan sets instead of or in addition to a series of $8 sets which could reach a far more wider audience is pushing it.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Aanchir

[Anexcuse]

On another note, I found this on the Message Boards: "Hey, anybody else notice there's a gold guy flying in the distance on the Tahu makes a grab for mask pic. Maybe Takanuvas got wings!"

Link: https://community.le...10801983/page/7

(Apologies for the quality, I'm not the most skilled at photo editing :P)

Would this mean anything? Or just some random observation?

Edited August 22, 2014 by VBBN
Image containing portion of leaked photo removed

[Timeline15]

assuming that even is a figure,and not a random light effect, I would take a guess that it might be the spirit of Mata Nui, watching over the battle.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Timeline15

[Dorek]

They often show shadowy (or in this case, lighty) figures in the backgrounds of imagery. Sometimes it's a representation of a figure from a future wave, occasionally it's one from the current wave, and more rarely, it's a story element that doesn't have a direct set representation.

In this case... I think it's a smudge.