Bionicle 2015 Discussion

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No. The defining factors of the Toa was that they each had their own little power, and working as a team was the only way to defeat the enemy. Gali could go underwater to infiltrate a lair, and Lewa could transport Matoran to places quicker. Remember in Mask of Light, when they used sand, heat, and wind to freeze the Rahkshi in glass? UNITY!! or when the Metru froze Makuta in the Protodermis? They each used their elemental powers. UNITY!! With Inika, and Mistika/Phantoka, they just shot enemies until they died. There was no Unity, no teamwork. It was just Lego saying, "Kids like jetpacks and lasers, lets give the Toa those!"

Unity. Duty. Destiny. A major "theme", if you will, of Bionicle. Without one, there are no others.

Should we pinpoint the things generally agreeably necessary to be present for a Bionicle return, even if it's a reboot? Like the three virtues and things like that.

[Lyichir]

Whoa whoa whoa - everything points to a reboot? Explain your reasoning.

• The characters resemble their original forms (including Kanohi, colors, and several of their tools/weapons).
  
• They are accompanied by small "defenders" (resembling Matoran) and are facing a primal force of destruction/corruption (the skull spiders, which seem to play a similar role to Krana or infected masks).
  
• The art we've seen, along with the golden masks included with each Toa, suggest a mask quest. A reboot makes more sense business-wise, since the bloated story of the original was one of the biggest factors contributing to the theme's decline, and connecting the new story with that would surely result in the same effect over time (don't forget that Bionicle's attempts at a soft reboot in 2004, 2006, and 2009 were largely unsuccessful at staving off that decline).
  
• Greg Farshtey has stated that he would personally rather have a reboot than a continuation, and while his inclusion on the new theme's story team is uncertain, it would not be unlikely given his ties to the original theme's story as well as his position as one of TLG's top employed writers.
  

That all points to a reboot. Meanwhile, we've seen nothing that would hint at a continuation. So while either option is still possible until we actually know exactly what the story will be, I think expecting a continuation at this point is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

[Jakura Nuva]

• The characters resemble their original forms (including Kanohi, colors, and several of their tools/weapons).
  
• They are accompanied by small "defenders" (resembling Matoran) and are facing a primal force of destruction/corruption (the skull spiders, which seem to play a similar role to Krana or infected masks).
  
• The art we've seen, along with the golden masks included with each Toa, suggest a mask quest. A reboot makes more sense business-wise, since the bloated story of the original was one of the biggest factors contributing to the theme's decline, and connecting the new story with that would surely result in the same effect over time (don't forget that Bionicle's attempts at a soft reboot in 2004, 2006, and 2009 were largely unsuccessful at staving off that decline).
  
• Greg Farshtey has stated that he would personally rather have a reboot than a continuation, and while his inclusion on the new theme's story team is uncertain, it would not be unlikely given his ties to the original theme's story as well as his position as one of TLG's top employed writers.
  

That all points to a reboot. Meanwhile, we've seen nothing that would hint at a continuation. So while either option is still possible until we actually know exactly what the story will be, I think expecting a continuation at this point is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

Okay, fine - I see what you're saying. But when you say the Protectors are "accompanying" the Toa, are you suggesting that they are allied with the Toa, or merely line-buddies? (Also, I feel I should point out that each Protector has the same mask/helmet - if they were Matoran, why would that be done?)

[Dorek]

Matoran were allowed to wear the same mask, but those concepts could easily be non-finalized.

Anything indicating a continuation is more wishful thinking or reading way too much into things. BIONICLE was canceled because of an overburdened mythos, so just adding to that is completely counterintuitive.

[Jakura Nuva]

Matoran were allowed to wear the same mask, but those concepts could easily be non-finalized.

Anything indicating a continuation is more wishful thinking or reading way too much into things. BIONICLE was canceled because of an overburdened mythos, so just adding to that is completely counterintuitive.

Obviously so, but it makes them seem more like non-sentient robots.

A continuation could be done if past content was "dumbed down", retconned or even simply ignored.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Jakura Nuva

[Lord-Vorahk]

On the subject of having the Toa of similar elements using their powers differently, it could be as simple as having one of them focus on using their physical abilites, augmented by their powers, while another is more about using the element itself, like one Fire Toa using burning hand weapons, while the other causes flame jets and firestorms.

[Dorek]

Obviously so, but it makes them seem more like non-sentient robots.

A continuation could be done if past content was "dumbed down", retconned or even simply ignored.

So what would be the point of doing a continuation if the past story is retconned? Self-defeating, that is.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Dorek

[Lyichir]

Okay, fine - I see what you're saying. But when you say the Protectors are "accompanying" the Toa, are you suggesting that they are allied with the Toa, or merely line-buddies? (Also, I feel I should point out that each Protector has the same mask/helmet - if they were Matoran, why would that be done?)

I meant "accompanying" as in "sold alongside". But their roles and size seem relatively consistent with Matoran. The shared masks are unusual but there are plenty of reasons why that might not be done—firstly, to reduce the cost, since 8 molds (6 Toa+Skull Spider+Defender) is a lot cheaper than 12, and secondly, to make sure the Toa are distinctive (i.e. don't share mask designs with other characters). I've even hypothesized that the shared masks are simply a substitute for randomized ones—unlikely, but would be quite a neat feature that may be the only way to get anything like the classic mask packs.

A continuation could be done if past content was "dumbed down", retconned or even simply ignored.

While that may seem possible, remember that Bionicle attempted varying levels of that three times—first by shifting the character focus in the Metru Nui arc, then by focusing on six brand-new Toa in the Ignition arc, and finally by abandoning the entire Matoran Universe entirely in 2009. Each time, the complexity crept back into the story. The same would inevitably happen in a modern continuation, since there's really no point in a continuation unless the goal is to refer to past story. "Dumbing down" the story would likely be a turn-off to older fans (the only ones who would care that it's a continuation), and retconning it would add complexity due to varying levels of canon, in addition to defeating the purpose of a continuation by ignoring past story developments.

[Toa of Gallifrey]

I think that maybe the Defenders are robots like the Bohrok, just allied with the Toa.

[Clone 01354 Productions]

Should we pinpoint the things generally agreeably necessary to be present for a Bionicle return, even if it's a reboot? Like the three virtues and things like that.

I don't mean that they may not be used; I am saying that they need to be stressed in the new Bionicle. Towards the end of the last story, the Three Virtues, and the elements, all but disappeared, and were only hinted at. For major motifs of the storyline, they were strangely pushed aside.

Oh, and by the way, I hope that the special armor on all of the Toa is gold, not yellow. Because yellow on Kopaka, Toa of Ice? Ewwww.....But anyway, the yellow just stands out way too much.

[Jakura Nuva]

I meant "accompanying" as in "sold alongside". But their roles and size seem relatively consistent with Matoran. The shared masks are unusual but there are plenty of reasons why that might not be done—firstly, to reduce the cost, since 8 molds (6 Toa+Skull Spider+Defender) is a lot cheaper than 12, and secondly, to make sure the Toa are distinctive (i.e. don't share mask designs with other characters). I've even hypothesized that the shared masks are simply a substitute for randomized ones—unlikely, but would be quite a neat feature that may be the only way to get anything like the classic mask packs.

While that may seem possible, remember that Bionicle attempted varying levels of that three times—first by shifting the character focus in the Metru Nui arc, then by focusing on six brand-new Toa in the Ignition arc, and finally by abandoning the entire Matoran Universe entirely in 2009. Each time, the complexity crept back into the story. The same would inevitably happen in a modern continuation, since there's really no point in a continuation unless the goal is to refer to past story. "Dumbing down" the story would likely be a turn-off to older fans (the only ones who would care that it's a continuation), and retconning it would add complexity due to varying levels of canon, in addition to defeating the purpose of a continuation by ignoring past story developments.

Alright, you've made your point. Still, the name Protector sounds to me like they're the guardians of the masks the Toa are after - though, since the name "Toa" also does not appear on the packaging for them, I can see it if they didn't label them as "Matoran".

I guess a reboot is the most likely course of action Lego will take.

I think that maybe the Defenders are robots like the Bohrok, just allied with the Toa.

Perhaps. TTV has also speculated that it may be a thing where all three sides - Toa, Protectors, and Spiders - are against each other in a race for the masks.

[Clone 01354 Productions]

YAY!! We finally agreed on a reboot!! So then, do we think that Makuta will be the main puppet-master? And do we think that it will follow the same basic storyline? Or will this be a whole new, fresh start....

[Jakura Nuva]

YAY!! We finally agreed on a reboot!! So then, do we think that Makuta will be the main puppet-master? And do we think that it will follow the same basic storyline? Or will this be a whole new, fresh start....

Are you talking to me?

[Aanchir]

On the subject of having the Toa of similar elements using their powers differently, it could be as simple as having one of them focus on using their physical abilites, augmented by their powers, while another is more about using the element itself, like one Fire Toa using burning hand weapons, while the other causes flame jets and firestorms.

Yep, these are all good ideas! Naturally, you don't want a character to limit their powers to the extent that they become a one-note character. A good story still needs the characters to be able to use their powers in new and surprising ways, like when Gali and Lewa created a storm in the first Bohrok comic. It was something cool, something the two of them had never done before... yet something that still made plenty of sense with their respective powers.

Oh, and by the way, I hope that the special armor on all of the Toa is gold, not yellow. Because yellow on Kopaka, Toa of Ice? Ewwww.....But anyway, the yellow just stands out way too much.

I'm pretty sure it'll be gold as well.

[Toa of Gallifrey]

I still haven't agreed to a hard reboot. I'm still hoping for a timeskip continuation (or soft reboot ala 2009).

Edited August 30, 2014 by Toa of Gallifrey

[Clone 01354 Productions]

NOOOO!! We all haven't agreed on a reboot!! A time skip would feel to strange. I get that the Bionicle characters live for thousands of years, but come on. This needs to be restarted, so that Lego can learn from the mistakes of the original story. Not just say, "Oh, it all happened, but it doesn't matter. Just forget it." THAT"S BASICALLY THE SAME THING AS A REBOOT!!!!

[Lord-Vorahk]

I have to agree that the complexity will slowly return.

Using the Sonic comics as my punching bag/example again, it was mentioned in an interview before the launch of the freshly rebooted continuity in issue 252 that the writers were trying to retool the dynamics with the characters so that Sonic was firmly in the spotlight, and wouldn't be outclassed by Princess Sally again. THe problem there is that the reason Sally eventually eclipsed Sonic in the old timeline was not because the writers overused her (Though some of them definitely did), but because they could easily write her as a dynamic character, while all of Sonic's development was quashed by heavy mandates handed down by SEGA of Japan. Since that's still the case with the new comics, and, if anything, SEGA have become more tight-fisted with the mandates, it will happen again- Sonic, Tails, and Amy will gradually be outclassed by their western-derived comrades, because the latter group will develop and the former won't.

A story, no matter how simply it starts, will inevitably become more complex and convoluted as it progresses, as new rules, lore, elements, and characters are added.Throwing a reboot at it might fix the issues for a while, but the complexity will seep back in unless they actively do something to stop that, and in this case, that wouldn't be good for the theme.

[Jakura Nuva]

I still haven't agreed to a hard reboot.

I've accepted that the evidence points towards a reboot, but I'm still not rooting for one, nor have I dismissed the possibility of one. A time skip would be nice.

[DuckBricks]

I'm hoping for it NOT to be a reboot, but there is a lot of evidence that it will be. If it is really very story-based like Chima and Ninjago, perhaps it will get its own TV series...

[Clone 01354 Productions]

Bionicle TV series? Count. Me. IN!! After I learned that Star Wars: Rebels is a huge disappointment, I could use a good show. And really, you can't ruin Bionicle. You can throw in all the slapstick humor you want, all the lame references you want. Nothing can ruin Bionicle, except for the Piraka and the Barraki.

[Dorek]

Uh, I'd find poorly executed jokes a lot more offensive than some of the best years of BIONICLE, but hey...

I still would like a TV show, but a 2D animated one.

[Jakura Nuva]

Bionicle TV series? Count. Me. IN!! After I learned that Star Wars: Rebels is a huge disappointment, I could use a good show. And really, you can't ruin Bionicle. You can throw in all the slapstick humor you want, all the lame references you want. Nothing can ruin Bionicle, except for the Piraka and the Barraki.

How was Rebels a disappointment?

[VBBN]

Keep discussion related to Bionicle/ Lego constraction please, Star Wars rebels should be discussed in culture & multimedia.

[Lord-Vorahk]

Ignition is still my favourite saga, and I thought its villains were just fine.

[Clone 01354 Productions]

How was Rebels a disappointment?

How wasn't it?

Anyway, I just heard that more Lego sites are starting to believe that the October reveal will be BIONICLE!!!! I really, really, really, really hope that this is true. But still, October is so far away....