Darth Punk Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 I think if someone felt this strongly a more effective method would be to write a review. Compare the previous baseplate with the new one. I'm sure there are many people like myself who are not exactly pleased with the increase. But as they say you catch more bees with honey than vinegar. One could mention that the baseplate that just retired http://brickset.com/sets/626-1/Building-Plate-Green came out in 1996 at the retail price of $4.99. The previous baseplate 813-1 came out in 1986 at the retail price of $4.50. I think that puts the situation in a much better perspective. Quote
jodawill Posted January 7, 2015 Author Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) … Edited April 24, 2015 by jodawill Quote
Darth Punk Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Well I imagine after almost twenty years of use they had to make a new mold. Cost to make molds have surely risen. Coupled with the fact baseplates do not come in sets to help distribute the costs this individual product has bared the brunt of those costs. Not to mention the cost of materials to make the plastic has risen over time. That is what we know, the cost to actually make a baseplate is only known to TLG. Quote
jodawill Posted January 7, 2015 Author Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) … Edited April 24, 2015 by jodawill Quote
fred67 Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Baseplates DO come in some sets. They are also vacuum formed, from my understanding... it still requires a mold, but it's not as complicated. Moreover, it's an extremely simple mold. When they tell you about $100k+ molds, they're not talking about the simple ones, even if larger... most of the molds are not that expensive. Quote
Darth Punk Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) Baseplates DO come in some sets. They are also vacuum formed, from my understanding... it still requires a mold, but it's not as complicated. Moreover, it's an extremely simple mold. When they tell you about $100k+ molds, they're not talking about the simple ones, even if larger... most of the molds are not that expensive. That's what I thought, but I realize I was only looking at the set number and not the part number. Thanks for the info about the vacuum forming as I was not aware. Frankly I never paid much attention to the bottom of the baseplate but it makes sense. People who get discounts on them know a smaller upper bound of the production cost. It only stands to reason after the investment costs are paid the profitability of a product will increase. Plus companies always have products that have greater profit margins. They help to offset those that have much tighter margins. A great example are beverages you get at a fast food restaurant. Last in heard it was around 10 cents for your average medium drink yet they sell them for over a dollar. Yet places like mcdonalds makes very little off of their hamburgers. Thats why they push 'value' meals because they couldn't stay open just by selling burgers and no one is going to come if they are just selling beverages. Thus one has to accept the good with the bad. I guess my point in all of this is that business in general is complicated and pricing a product no matter what it is is a balancing act. Attempting to look from the outside in requires a great deal of information in which case we do not have. TLG like any company looks at each product as part of a greater whole. A products success will be determined by how it fulfills it's role. I imagine if the general public agrees with you the baseplates are way overpriced TLG will adjust accordingly. But that remains to be seen. Edited January 7, 2015 by Darth Punk Quote
jodawill Posted January 7, 2015 Author Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) … Edited April 24, 2015 by jodawill Quote
fred67 Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Agree with both previous posts... and if they can make the same amount of profit with half as much work, it's worth it to them. It's not always about volume, which is why people aren't understanding the problem with raising prices despite rising sales... they often think prices should go down when volume increases. Quote
Vorkosigan Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 To the point of deleting reviews: Any site with public reviews must have some filtering or deletion of reviews. Just look at youtube comments to see all the crazies posting stuff on the internet. Lego approves every review because they have a lot of kids reading their site and have to ensure there is no inappropriate material. Now imagine you have the job of determining if a reviews are legit, you have a few seconds to decide if each is genuine or spam, and you see a 1 star review with one sentence about the price increase. Probably not going to be judged as a legit review. Now if you put a well reasoned review of decent length out there and it doesn't get approved, that is more troubling. I can't say LEGO S@H reviews are something I worry about the accuracy of though, there is plenty of info out there if you need it. Regardless you always have to use your judgement on reading online reviews and try to decide more from the content of the reviews than the average number of stars. Quote
fred67 Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 But the review didn't violate terms - there was no foul language, no disparaging remarks, no spam... as far as language is concerned, it was completely benign; I think he's right to be annoyed about it being deleted. Quote
obsidianheart Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 Did you buy a baseplate off of Shop@Home recently? I didn't see that part anywhere. Quote
jodawill Posted January 8, 2015 Author Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) … Edited April 24, 2015 by jodawill Quote
obsidianheart Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 I've bought about 30 of them from the local store within the past few months. I did not purchase them at $8. It's the exact same product listed at a 60% higher price. Right, I get your complaint is the price. And I get that you wrote a review that disappeared. I was just wondering if you bought any baseplates at the new price directly from them.They might have erased the review because there was no Shop@Home purchase of the reviewed item linked to the account that you used to post the review. A few online stores will database check their posted customer reviews with the purchase history of the posting customer. If there is no match, they might not allow the review through due to the possibility that the customer's account has been hacked by a competitor or individual with a vendetta against the product (or even the customer themselves). I don't know what LEGO Shop@Home's policy is in regards to this, nor do I always agree with this practice, but it is a possible explanation. Quote
jodawill Posted January 8, 2015 Author Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) … Edited April 24, 2015 by jodawill Quote
MAB Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 But the review didn't violate terms - there was no foul language, no disparaging remarks, no spam... as far as language is concerned, it was completely benign; I think he's right to be annoyed about it being deleted. If it mentioned price then it did violate the instructions, as they say not to discuss "info that changes, such as price". That is what the value for money rating is for. That means anyone who needs to buy a large number of them on short notice is just screwed. Fortunately, for those who plan in advance, there are cheaper options. It wouldn't surprise me if those options start to dry up too. BL sellers will be paying more, games (a good source of baseplates) are no longer being produced. There other other ways (LUG purchases etc) but they may increase prices there too to reflect the increase of the retail costs. Quote
Kai NRG Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 An important thing to remember when considering price increases is that it's not just the company wanting to make more money, but a price increase (bizarre as it may sound) actually is doing a favor to the consumers who really want that product. For example, if the price of baseplates is $5, obviously more people will be interested in buying baseplates than would be at a higher price. But if TLG is not interested (at the $5 price point) in selling as many baseplates as there are people willing to buy baseplates at the $5 point, then the logical thing to do is to raise the price. Then, at the new $8 price, less people will be interested, and TLG will want to sell more, so hopefully the two will balance each other out. Frankly, I think the jack is a bit reckless and overdone, but TLG has a better idea of what it's doing than I do I'm sure (I mean, even at $5 I thought baseplates were outrageous), and if the supply starts to exceed the amount people are interested in, the price will drop (maybe not back to $5, but at least a little). But my point is, the price increase does a favor to those consumers who really want baseplates enough to shell out $8 for one, who otherwise might not have got one if the price had continued at the lower point, and TLG decided (for whatever reason; maybe they could make more money in Europe, maybe production costs were going up, or whatever) it wasn't worth selling as many. Back to the point of reviews - while it is disconcerting that a negative review that was respectful got deleted, as MAB pointed out, if it mentioned the price TLG has the right to delete it, although how exact that criteria is it's hard to tell - can you say, the price is too high, or, the price point is really good - which I think I did say in a passed review once - or is it just mentions of a specific number that are taboo? Either way, that category does seem to be a bit tough to avoid - personally I consider the price a big part of whether a set is worthwhile or not, and if I don't have anything to complain about the product itself but still feel the review should be negative because of the price, what am I supposed to say in justification of my low rating? Quote
rollermonkey Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 If it mentioned price then it did violate the instructions, as they say not to discuss "info that changes, such as price". That is what the value for money rating is for. It wouldn't surprise me if those options start to dry up too. BL sellers will be paying more, games (a good source of baseplates) are no longer being produced. There other other ways (LUG purchases etc) but they may increase prices there too to reflect the increase of the retail costs. When they say "don't discuss info that changes, such as price" I interpret that to mean don't include the price itself ($8, €10, £29.99, etc) in the review, as that number may change and thus become outdated, plus it varies from location to location. Discussing value for price paid, particularly related to a recent change, should still be fair to address. Quote
fred67 Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 I agree... value is always important; it could be a terrible set with 300 pieces for $2, and it would still be a great value, or it could be an absolutely amazing set with 100 pieces for $200 and be a terrible value. Value is important, even if largely subjective... but then all reviews are subjective. Quote
Darth Punk Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 Does make me wonder, do people here actually ever read the reviews? I've always ignored them, mainly because you have no idea who,is behind the review. And because if I really want an opinion about a set I would look here. Quote
MAB Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 I agree... value is always important; it could be a terrible set with 300 pieces for $2, and it would still be a great value, or it could be an absolutely amazing set with 100 pieces for $200 and be a terrible value. Value is important, even if largely subjective... but then all reviews are subjective. That is what the rate the value 1-5 section is for. Quote
klinton Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 Does make me wonder, do people here actually ever read the reviews? I've always ignored them, mainly because you have no idea who,is behind the review. And because if I really want an opinion about a set I would look here. Yeah, I've never understood looking to reviews to inform a purchase of anything this side of a new car (where details like performance and mileage are important). You can eyeball a Lego set and know off the top if it's for you or not. Outside of looking at reviews for parts images and/or to lust after a set you've yet to acquire (but already intend to, prior to reading), I don't see the point of them at all. It's weird that society is so skewed towards this dependence on other people's 'opinions' these days. People write up elaborate reviews for anything and everything. Hahaha. Quote
jodawill Posted January 10, 2015 Author Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) … Edited April 24, 2015 by jodawill Quote
dr_spock Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 Does make me wonder, do people here actually ever read the reviews? I've always ignored them, mainly because you have no idea who,is behind the review. And because if I really want an opinion about a set I would look here. For LEGO products, I don't bother with the reviews on LEGO.com. I read the reviews on EB which are better. Outside of LEGO, I have had good experiences with products that had many negative reviews. Some times you can tell the reviews were written by people with no clue how to use the product correctly and saying it doesn't work. Quote
Darth Punk Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) Yeah, I've never understood looking to reviews to inform a purchase of anything this side of a new car (where details like performance and mileage are important). You can eyeball a Lego set and know off the top if it's for you or not. Outside of looking at reviews for parts images and/or to lust after a set you've yet to acquire (but already intend to, prior to reading), I don't see the point of them at all. It's weird that society is so skewed towards this dependence on other people's 'opinions' these days. People write up elaborate reviews for anything and everything. Hahaha. The concept of valuing other peoples opinion is hardly new. I guess if you know everything about everything then other peoples experience and perspective might not be so useful. But of course we would probably be still living in caves without the exchange of ideas and experiences to further advance our world. The question I have is if you find opinions so unnecessary why are you on eurobricks exp<b></b>ression your own? For LEGO products, I don't bother with the reviews on LEGO.com. I read the reviews on EB which are better. Outside of LEGO, I have had good experiences with products that had many negative reviews. Some times you can tell the reviews were written by people with no clue how to use the product correctly and saying it doesn't work. I agree even bad reviews can provide useful information. Amazon is a perfect example since it has such a wide range of products thus attracting a very diverse clientele. I tend to like to read the good and bad as it gives the best overall perspective. Sometimes you can find uses and features of a product that you hadn't considered before thus affecting the value of the product. Edited January 12, 2015 by Darth Punk Quote
jodawill Posted January 12, 2015 Author Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) … Edited April 24, 2015 by jodawill Quote
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