Are Technic sets getting less complex?

[Paul Boratko]

The spring built shocks never made it to the public because of "Safety isues" where the springs could fly back and hit a kid in the eye while they were trying to assemble them, so the actual shock as we know it was developed.. At least this is what I was told years ago...

[Jim]

I think some of us are living in the past....

What I consider "complex" now as a 32 year old who has been building with Technic for 25 years is very different to what I thought was complex as a 7 year old.

This pretty much sums it up for me. Having built hundreds of sets, one knows how things are accomplished. Complexity becomes routine.

When you are 10 years old and you get a 2000+ (or a 1000+) part count set.....I'm sure you will find it complex, interesting, challenging, rewarding.

I am very satisfied with the level of complexity and the overall quality of the Technic line. Although I wouldn't mind a UCS Technic set in the 400-500 euro range once every few years. On the other hand; there are so many great NMOCs to build.....

[TheItalianBrick]

Complexity becomes routine.

When you are 10 years old and you get a 2000+ (or a 1000+) part count set.....I'm sure you will find it complex, interesting, challenging, rewarding.

I am very satisfied with the level of complexity and the overall quality of the Technic line. Although I wouldn't mind a UCS Technic set in the 400-500 euro range once every few years. On the other hand; there are so many great NMOCs to build.....

One couldn't give a better answer!!!

And I do agree on a 400-500 euro set as it will be immortal, a collection set, a must have! Look at the Star Wars theme......cm'on TLG wake up!!! We are waiting for these things to come on the shelfs!

[Leif]

One couldn't give a better answer!!!

And I do agree on a 400-500 euro set as it will be immortal, a collection set, a must have! Look at the Star Wars theme......cm'on TLG wake up!!! We are waiting for these things to come on the shelfs!

Come on TLG, take my money!!

[Rockbrick]

I think as the technic sets get simpler the normal sets get more complicated (e.g. the tumbler, benny's spaceship spaceship spaceship, etc....) for a 7-10 year old doing the same set in technic is a walk in the park compared to these

[afol1969]

It's now some years I build Technic models. The first set like the 9397 and the 8110 were complex to build, because it was new for me (pneumatics, PF). As I was young, I've built the first Technics set like the 853 etc. But today I search new challenges, because after built lost of the new sets, it becomes a routine. But now as I've got a very big amount of older technic parts, I have to build some older sets like the 8437, 8479, 8545....and I've planned to build the 8868 too. It's amazing how much complexity and lots of functions models can have with less special parts and studded bricks. I gegin to explore the 90's technic era, and it gives me more experience in building. And there were some special interesting sets like the control sets, racers, space shuttle, Bare Bode set....that makes me think that the 90's were an experimental era. That's I've missing today, the modern sets have more or less the same building process with over-simplified instructions.

Greetings

Alex

[Anio]

One couldn't give a better answer!!!

I bet I can.

And I do agree on a 400-500 euro set as it will be immortal, a collection set, a must have!

Everyone knows this will never happen in the next 20 years.

At 2,000 parts, they already face the limit of the system...

[TheItalianBrick]

I bet I can.

Everyone knows this will never happen in the next 20 years.

At 2,000 parts, they already face the limit of the system...

Well there are people buying 41999 for 700$ when it's a carry over of the 9398, and there was the Millemnium falcon with 5,000 parts.

Now don,t get me wrong, I do love the 41999, but I bet a 3,500 parts technic set full motorized with suspensions, air pump and Pneumatics would be easily done and sold! Then if they want to limit it at 20.000 copies even better!

[nicjasno]

The hand built version never saw production. The photos for the box were made before it was decided that springs like that might not be the best idea and all sets were produced with the familiar small grey shocks.

[Tadej]

I bet I can.

Everyone knows this will never happen in the next 20 years.

At 2,000 parts, they already face the limit of the system...

Not the limit of the system, but the price limit. When they launched the Unimog for 190eur, they were worried that it was too expensive and nobody would buy it, but since it was so successful, next year they introduced the mobile crane for 200eur and the Volvo loader for 220eur last year. The price is going up fast and the sales are still going up. It is only a matter of time before they reach the 400-500eur range. And I would like to add that when I was little flagship sets cost 50eur in todays money, so things have really progressed over the years.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Tadej

[TheItalianBrick]

Set 10221 Superstar destroyer at 399euros RRP

[Anio]

there was the Millemnium falcon with 5,000 parts.

It is standard bricks, and a static build. It is easier to make something bigger. However, look closely at 10179. It is 5 times bigger than a regular MF. One could think "Awesome, it will have 5 times more detailed interior !".

No. It just doesn't work like that. At 5k parts, you face the limit of the system too. You have to build very strong, or the model collapse on itself. And so, there is no interior (which IMO is not a big deal).

Now don,t get me wrong, I do love the 41999, but I bet a 3,500 parts technic set full motorized with suspensions, air pump and Pneumatics would be easily done and sold! Then if they want to limit it at 20.000 copies even better!

I doubt it. All the fun about 41999 is to drive obstacles with a remote. The winch is a nice touch, but it is not what add value to the model.

As for pump, pneumatics, and so on, why would it be necessary to have everything in one single model ?

A Lego crawler doesn't seem to require any of this stuff. If you want this stuff, buy a crane or something like that.

Not the limit of the system, but the price limit.

Definitely not. There are tons of models with a $300+ price range and above.

The parts set the limit. Look outriggers of 42009 or arm of 8258 and 42009. Or steering of 8110. It works, but everyone can see that they are almost at the limit.

It appears to me that there is quite a misunderstanding of what is a Lego set. Complexity is not a goal in itself (and thanks god, it will never be). On any set. They are just a way to achieve functions.

[wumsi]

Set 10221 Superstar destroyer at 399euros RRP

There are quite a view expenive Lego sets, but they are Star Wars, oder Creator, City :D

Death Star 420€ ^^

[TheItalianBrick]

The parts set the limit. Look outriggers of 42009 or arm of 8258 and 42009. Or steering of 8110. It works, but everyone can see that they are almost at the limit.

This is exaclty where you are wrong and you just confirm it: "The parts set the limit"...true.....therfore more parts would solve all those issues about outriggers and boom!

I think the problem is that TLG wants to make a 2000 parts crane that normally should require al least 3000. Can you imagine TLG doing a motorbike like 42007 using 2000 parts???? NO. so that's why for the same reason I don't see the point of making a big crane using only 2000....

[andythenorth]

I think as the technic sets get simpler

Yair I totally agree. No actually, wait, eh what? Which Technic sets are getting simpler?

This is exaclty where you are wrong and you just confirm it: "The parts set the limit"...true.....therfore more parts would solve all those issues about outriggers and boom!

The large sets can push ABS parts beyond the point where they perform well. Too much friction, high bending moments, the need for excessive reinforcement, and where PF is used, stressing gears and other parts to the point where they break trivially (case in point: my 42009 B model just chewed threw a 24T gear in the middle of the boom gearbox).

Bigger is not automatically better

Edited January 15, 2015 by andythenorth

[Anio]

You obviously lack experience.

A very basic rule : the more parts, the more problem (of any kind) you have.

[TheItalianBrick]

You obviously lack experience.

A very basic rule : the more parts, the more problem (of any kind) you have.

I do lack of experience actually....I only have 25 years of experience at building Technic MOC....

[Jim]

Before this escalates. Let's not get personal.

[Anio]

Too bad then. You didn't even get basics from it.

[aol000xw]

We know Technic is smaller that other Lego Themes, in this very own forum the 2015 Star Wars thread has 148 pages and has a lot of info and opinions versus The 48 Technic pages filled mostly with speculations and wishes -and some frustration venting too-. Ok the SW guys are crazy and can go on and on over a single minifig but you get the point.

It may prove difficult for Technic to get UCS models as SW does, but are you kidding me? Talking about price ceilings and system limits is ridiculous. SYSTEM LIMITS! What does that even mean?

SW UCS and MOCS people pay instructions for prove that there are nos system limits or price ceilings.

Obviously not that many paid 600€ for a MF but the only limit is that by now for Technic simply there are not enough of us.

[nicjasno]

I'm also not a fan of sets getting bigger in terms of dimensions. I have expirienced what andythenorth describes in my dodge challenger model. It was simply too big and too heavy. The mustang is as big as lego cars should be.

And my next models will use the new panels and the box liftarms (7x5 and 11x5) heavily, to reduce part count and keep weight to a minimum.

In the past i used to just build stuff, without regard to weight. This culminated in my model of an audi a6 avant, which was 8kgs of bricks. Simply too much.

Edited January 15, 2015 by nicjasno

[aol000xw]

I don't think many would complain about the 5.9Kg of Lucio's truck right?

[imajor]

How do we measure complexity?

I check the picture of the finished model on the box, then check the list of the features. Then the question: could I build this thing without the instructions so that all the functions would work properly? For most of the sets the answer is: maybe. But there are a few (like 8043) where the answer is: absolutely no chance. Those sets have the wow factor, I call those complex. And I think those are the sets where Anio mentions the skill as the most important thing for design.

[nicjasno]

I remember the 8859 technic idea book, where it featured a black truck. There were no instructions, just 4 pages of pictures. And i have managed to build it as a 12 year old. And it was pretty complex for its time.

[Askan]

Many of the old sets are advanced like 8880 or Air tech claw rig. But introduction of PF has also put the demands of playability and performance to a new level in my opinion. A remote controlled crawler must be able to move through terrain and a remote controlled excavator needs to be able to dig with some precision. I also have the feeling that PF could require more advanced drive train and other solutions because the PF parts need to be placed somewhere, but I could be wrong.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Askan