Are Technic sets getting less complex?

[aol000xw]

I love those old school sets. TLG lost the "form follows function" Id'say in 1999 or 2000, I guess in an effort to make the sets more appealing, by looking more like toys and less "educational".

[Richard Dower]

Yes....its all becoming style, looks and tons of panels used instead of features and functionality!

[nicjasno]

I'd like to have been present at the meeting where they decided that IR is the right method of transmitting signals for the power functions sets.

[Askan]

But if you want beauty, look at the set from the first years of technic, they are amazing. These three little friends smile at me every morning when I eat breakfast :)

What I mean with this post is that maybe its more tits and a*s nowadays, but not pure beauty. I would never put a modern technic tractor, fork lift or crane in my kitchen vitrine. And for sure my wife would not have liked it.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Askan

[aol000xw]

I'd like to have been present at the meeting where they decided that IR is the right method of transmitting signals for the power functions sets.

I remember some "RC" marketing using those lame IR remotes. Quite misleading at the time as RC for me always was Radio Control not stupid infrared Remote Control

Maybe something like this

[D3K]

The parts set the limit. Look outriggers of 42009 or arm of 8258 and 42009. Or steering of 8110. It works, but everyone can see that they are almost at the limit.

I somewhat agree that the actual parts in existence today, set the limits for the examples you listed, at least for what would pass TLG requirements (8258 arm could be more complex if three functions could be routed through the turntable compactly, and boom of 42009 could easily be longer, as we've seen, but that sacrifices some reliability, mostly due to the LA's.)

That being said, I absolutely do not agree that the "system's limits" has been reached and defined (by you) at 2000 pieces. As evidenced by countless high quality Technic MOCs, I have to agree it seems more to be a matter of price (take two examples: Sheo's Terex RH400 and Madoca's Wing Body Truck, both with more than 4000 parts, yet from every review I've read of them seem to work perfectly fine - And both models are purely Technic, no model team-y building techniques used in either). So yeah, the reason we probably won't see a set like that, is not that it can't be done, but more likely that the parts count and type (lots of parts generally, and PF especially) is what will drive the production cost up, thereby drawing the MSRP up linearly.

[nicjasno]

IR just doesn't work in sunlight. And that's the real problem here. That's why there was a need for the sbrick. It's a step in the right direction.

[Lucio Switch]

I don't think many would complain about the 5.9Kg of Lucio's truck right?

The max weight that i reached with a single MOC was 8.9Kg on the Tow truck.

But is to say that both are beyond the limits of an official technic set. I mean, to lift it up, you must take it by only a few points, otherwise something will disassembled or in the worst case breaks. You have to handle ever with care and you have to play with care. And honestly the lifetime of some parts will be very shorts.

[andythenorth]

I love those old school sets. TLG lost the "form follows function" Id'say in 1999 or 2000, I guess in an effort to make the sets more appealing, by looking more like toys and less "educational".

Yair maybe, but every time the new range is announced here a bunch of posters pile in whining providing valuable customer feedback about any gaps in the model that aren't filled with panels. So eh, what are TLG going to do?

[mahjqa]

I'd like to have been present at the meeting where they decided that IR is the right method of transmitting signals for the power functions sets.

A: So, that leaves the remotes. What are our options?

B: Radio tech, which is very expensive, has tons of different regulations in nearly every different country, and it sucks batteries.

A: It's a damn toy. Most of our stuff isn't meant to be used outside anyway. Infrared it is.

C: What about cell phones? Like with an app?

A: it's 2008. We can't count on every kid having their own cell phone, and the battery-efficient signal tech the SBrick uses hasn't been invented yet.

There you go.

[Jim]

True. IR isn't too bad. It's cheap, simple and works pretty good.

[nicjasno]

Yeah, i think that's right.

I think lego should buy sbrick and make this part of their official lineup.

Previously also panels were mentioned.

While i was not on board with the early panels, now that thye got rid of the tacky design with holes for the tubes, i think they are great.

They allow us to build much lighter and more realistic looking models, without the need to use the heavy and problematic plates that i use in the mustang for example.

Edited January 15, 2015 by nicjasno

[mahjqa]

Well, personally I think infrared is shit. However, the decision itself is pretty understandable.

Edited January 15, 2015 by mahjqa

[nicjasno]

IR is total shit. Unusable everywhere except in a livingroom with shades on the windows. Zblj knows what i'm talking about ;)

Edited January 15, 2015 by nicjasno

[Anio]

That being said, I absolutely do not agree that the "system's limits" has been reached and defined (by you) at 2000 pieces. As evidenced by countless high quality Technic MOCs, I have to agree it seems more to be a matter of price (take two examples: Sheo's Terex RH400 and Madoca's Wing Body Truck, both with more than 4000 parts, yet from every review I've read of them seem to work perfectly fine - And both models are purely Technic, no model team-y building techniques used in either). So yeah, the reason we probably won't see a set like that, is not that it can't be done, but more likely that the parts count and type (lots of parts generally, and PF especially) is what will drive the production cost up, thereby drawing the MSRP up linearly.

I do not set the limit at 2,000. It was just an example.

But for sure, a 5k parts would be way above that limit. At 3k, serious problems tend to appear with gears.

As for the MOCs we see everywhere, they are maybe very good as MOCs, but certainely not as sets. Just a reminder : a set is a mass produced item.

Madoca's truck is certainly very well exectuted. Nice shapes, realistic look, cool functions, and so on.

But as a set, and sorry to sound harsh, it is nothing more than a bunch of panels. Nothing more. There is not a chance that Lego ever release a set like that. Not a single chance.

Lego can not afford to release a model which has a 600 part (more ?) box with 2 features. Not a chance it would sell well. Not to mention that the building experience of such a box would be terrible.

(building 10212 wings is already a pain in the a**).

As I wrote earlier in this thread, I notice that few people seem to understand what is a Lego set. You have to look at the big picture.

[aol000xw]

In 2008 there were tons of cheap proper RC toys. There were even those small RC cars, the whole set cheaper than a single Lego IR receiver. And yes, those worked. For the price oh the sensor and remote there were small helicopters.

In my opinion the IR remote and sensor are overpriced crap. Choosing IR was like the air company that choose to remove the single olive from the salad to lower costs.

[Kumbbl]

IR is total shit. Unusable everywhere except in a livingroom with shades on the windows. Zblj knows what i'm talking about ;)

lego is not meant to be played outside - or have you ever seen an advertisment of TLG outside? In contrary: often lego warns that the parts are not usebale or sufficiant for by played outside... And inside your sunlight argument is completely useless. Also the range: For playling around with the reachable (and by TLG for their official models intended!) speed IR satisfies. real RC eats batteries at breakfast and is mostly a toy for adults. Do not expect lego to make such a long-term and important design decision for adults - they have to be done for their target audience: kids kids and again kids - for them the current IR-system is quite perfect.

I can really imagine the bunch of complaints at amazon from parents who moan that a battery pack lasts just 30 min when a model would be provided with real RC components... it has happend e.g. for models like 8366... this one and its "colleagues" were really no bestsellers and moneymakers....

Just my 2 ct.

I do not set the limit at 2,000. It was just an example.

But for sure, a 5k parts would be way above that limit. At 3k, serious problems tend to appear with gears.

As for the MOCs we see everywhere, they are maybe very good as MOCs, but certainely not as sets. Just a reminder : a set is a mass produced item.

Madoca's truck is certainly very well exectuted. Nice shapes, realistic look, cool functions, and so on.

But as a set, and sorry to sound harsh, it is nothing more than a bunch of panels. Nothing more. There is not a chance that Lego ever release a set like that. Not a single chance.

Lego can not afford to release a model which has a 600 part (more ?) box with 2 features. Not a chance it would sell well. Not to mention that the building experience of such a box would be terrible.

(building 10212 wings is already a pain in the a**).

As I wrote earlier in this thread, I notice that few people seem to understand what is a Lego set. You have to look at the big picture.

i agree completely - very well spoken... nothing prevents talented builders to design such (btw: really admirable and sometimes really outstanding) MOCs but TLG would be really foolish if they would release something like this...

[aol000xw]

You have to handle ever with care and you have to play with care. And honestly the lifetime of some parts will be very shorts.

Did you ever try to move an UCS Imperial Star Destroyer? And over time it can't withstand its own weight, had to add another support so it wouldn't collapse, But It was a problem with the fancy design not the model size.

[Lucio Switch]

IR is total shit. Unusable everywhere except in a livingroom with shades on the windows. Zblj knows what i'm talking about ;)

I had some problems even with artificial light, when shooting the video.;-)

[1974]

True. IR isn't too bad. It's cheap, simple and works pretty good.

Yes, but 2,4GHz RF is MUCH better, probably cheaper and actually flippin' works

TLG do not want us to race our cars (especially outside), the XL is giving them enough headaches as it is (yes, that is true)

But the crux of the matter, is Technic getting cooler or not? I say not

This is cool, actionpacked, looks boss and is fun to PLAY with :

This is made of suck :

Cheers,

Ole

Edited January 15, 2015 by 1974

[Jim]

I think lego should buy sbrick and make this part of their official lineup.

TLG has already been in contact with SBricks, so who knows.

Previously also panels were mentioned.

While i was not on board with the early panels, now that thye got rid of the tacky design with holes for the tubes, i think they are great.

I do like the newer style panels better too. Plain design and lots of variation.

[Milan]

I prefer bricks and plates, but It is great that we have both panel and bricks/plates.

To me, panels, when used masterfully like madoca and crowkiller provide more RC car feeling.

While plates and bricks- when used by lets say Nick Barret, provide more like scale model replica.

[andythenorth]

This is made of suck :

Yeah, but you're not 12 and....but OMG LOOK AT ALL THE RED PANELS, WHAT AN AWESOME PARTS PACK!

(/me just bought a load of those red panels on Bricklink)

[nicjasno]

1974: the 90s truck is much better aswell imho. Smaller, lighter, yet has more functionality (tow hitch).

Nowdays i sometimes get the feeling that the models are developed too quickly. In the "old" days, flagship models were sold for years, nowdays they change so quickly and are less and less desirable.

I know how much work goes into developing a quality model, so the yearly shedule of new and new models is good from the marketing point of view, but the overall quality of the designs as such has declined.

On another note. If lego kept the big models on sale longer, they also could insert special models inbetween the 2-3 year shedule. Like a supercar with realistic suspension and sbrick rc out of the box, or some interesting trucks (with realistic suspension and maybe 6wd awd (yes, we need better CV joints for that).

Just some ideas... :)

[TheItalianBrick]

Guys can I say something while looking at those pics?? One day our kids will say "oh the lego 42029 it's much better than what we have today".....and this talking about the future!

SO it's always the case...those onld sets remind my childhood so we tend to see them with different eyes cm'on!!

Don't get me wrong....I had and I loved the 8858...but the 42029 it's not bad at all! Actually I enjoyed the buildings phase so muuchhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!! :tongue:

Edited January 15, 2015 by TheItalianBrick