jluck Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 2 votes missing; I'm a big fan of the "we need a lynch on day 1" strategy so ... let's go! I understand your need to pursue the person you feel is more suspicious but let's face it, a no lynch does not advance the situation as much as a lynch would regardless of the outcome. At this point, a vote for Agnes, Berty, Hazel, Catarina or Chester is a lost vote. Just a thought ... I can change my vote, if it is going to secure the lynch. I too have always believed we need a day one lynch. There is only one person that I truly have gotten a strong day 1 scum vibe from, but i guess it'll have to wait til tomorrow. unvote: Catarina Dogwood Vote: Alistair Pear (Brickelodeon) There. And since I can't format. unvote: Catarina Dogwood (adventurer1)
MagPiesRUs Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 Between Alastair, Hazel and Catarina, there's been a lot of weirdness today that I'm struggling to make sense of. As far as Alastair goes, I keep flip-flopping on my read of him, but obviously it's best we get a lynch today. As long as he lives, his allegiance is going to niggle me, so I will Vote: Alastair Pear (Brickelodeon).
Tamamono Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 Vote: Bruce Spruce (Tamamono) For reasons pointed out earlier that haven't been answered to my satisfaction. I'm still not comfortable with Bruce's explanation for his quick maple read on William. There's a callousness to his approach with Alistair highlighted here: I understand that it's hard to catch maples on Day 1, but it doesn't mean we need to stick with our first reads. I think Bruce is trying to take advantage of the situation to his effect. I think he's also lost a bit of attention to how others are responding, and has a bit of tunnel vision going. For example, IMO, Hazel has actually turned around a bit in terms of his/her comments. Maybe there's some coaching going on but I'm not ready to case a vote that direction. I'm not sure that lynching Alistair tells us as much about Hazel or Catarina at this point as it does about Bruce, but it seems to me that Bruce is the one trying to manipulate things. So am I not supposed to be a realist? Alastair is our best chance at not only a lynch but also a scum lynch today, but there is the ever-present unfortunate possibility of him being town. Am I supposed to ignore that? Or, if it does come up, no lynch? Let's never lynch. The only time we're allowed to lynch from now on is if we're 100% certain the victim is Maple. Let's all unvote and call is a Day. Lassie, these situations are about taking chances. Never once have I started in with tunnel vision. My read on William came early, and when he started Oak-telling, I reversed it. I have had Maple-reads on plenty of people today, and have thought through each and every one. I have thought this decision out through and through - that's why I PM'd Alastair. He is the one I am least satisfied with today. At this point I'm being accused of two contradictory things - giving out my suspicions in public (trying to "manipulate" everyone) and giving them in private ("Why don't you bring out your suspicions in public and help us, Alejandro?"). In this case it seems like the only thing I'm allowed to do without being Maple is to sit idly by like a vegetable. But I'm not vegetable, I'm a tree!! I'm going to keep on this course, because it's going to lead me to finding scum (or, quite likely, it already has!). If you don't like it, fine. You are allowed to go against me if you want. But know that you are not helping town in doing so.
fhomess Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 I don't agree that Alistair was necessarily our best chance at a lynch when you accelerated the case against him. He still needed something like 5 votes to get there and there were other candidates that could also have gotten there. My comment on your tunnel vision was with regards to a perceived lack of effort on your part to try to evaluate whether his call for help could possibly be Oaky. It looked to me as if you'd already made up your mind. At this point I'm being accused of two contradictory things - giving out my suspicions in public (trying to "manipulate" everyone) and giving them in private ("Why don't you bring out your suspicions in public and help us, Alejandro?"). In this case it seems like the only thing I'm allowed to do without being Maple is to sit idly by like a vegetable. But I'm not vegetable, I'm a tree!! I'm going to keep on this course, because it's going to lead me to finding scum (or, quite likely, it already has!). If you don't like it, fine. You are allowed to go against me if you want. But know that you are not helping town in doing so. In reference to the contradictory things here... I think that your actions in private and your actions in public both indicate an effort to manipulate others to your agenda. My interpretation of your underlying intentions is that they're not any different. They're two sides of the same leaf. I'm not against you in particular. I'm with the oaks, and right now, you look the least like an oak to me no matter how many times you try to tell us how strong of an oak you are. That's the same logic (voting for who you're most suspicious of) that has you with your vote on Alistair and I don't begrudge you that. It's the right way to approach these things, and I will acknowledge that I don't get a strong oaky flavor from Alistair either. You are most certainly wrong on your last comment, though. It would be far more unhelpful if I were not to vote for the person I'm most suspicious of. As for Alistair, it looks like he has the votes so I really hope he comes up maple tomorrow. Not only would that be a great start to this sordid affair, but in my mind, it would pretty much clear you. So that would help us get additional resolution to today's affairs and give me one person I'd feel like I could trust.
Walter Kovacs Posted January 30, 2015 Author Posted January 30, 2015 Voting Update: Alastair Pear - 14 (Stickfig, Tamamono, Scaevola, Lord Duvors, jamesn, Lego Spy, PirateDave84, Zepher, Calanon, Bob, Hinckley, adventurer1, jluck, TinyPiesRUs) Bruce Spruce - 8 (Scubacarrot, Fugazi, Penalty, Penalty, Penalty, Penalty, Penalty, fhomess) Bobby Beech - 5 (Penalty, Penalty, Penalty, Penalty, Penalty) Catarina Dogwood - 2 ( Brickelodeon, Goliath) Hazel Hazelnut - 2 (badboytje88, mostlytechnic) Chester Chestnut - 1 (TheLazyChicken) Agnes Cyprus - 1 (Dragonfire) Berty Birch - 1 (JackJonespaw) There are 3 Hours, 40 Minutes left in Day 1. It takes 13 votes to lynch.
Hinckley Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 Oh Mighty Elder, pardon my insolence but I believe your count might be slightly off.
mostlytechnic Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 Correction to the vote count - there's 14 names after Alastair, so he has enough to lynch right now. I thought he'd been hammered already so when I saw the 12 on the count I double-checked it :)
Piratedave84 Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 You know who did not vote yet? Buck! Do you even care?
Walter Kovacs Posted January 30, 2015 Author Posted January 30, 2015 So Alden doesn't know how to count (silly copy and paste grr). The total is now correct.
Mencot Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 So it is pretty much between Alastair and Bruce or just Alastair because, it seems that the total vote is of in Elders post. I have some hard time trusting bruces comments but would a maple and an old tree screw up so much to take penalty votes, hmm I don't know. We will have to see in future days how the situation evolves. The lynch is already nailed but I will also nail it so more Vote: Alastair Pear (Brickelodeon) You know who did not vote yet? Buck! Do you even care? yes and lets not fight useless fights in this game if we are both oaks. I am
Piratedave84 Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 yes and lets not fight useless fights in this game if we are both oaks. I am ... I ... What ... Not again! I read it wrong sorry!
Mencot Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 ... I ... What ... Not again! I read it wrong sorry! Good
Tamamono Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 I don't agree that Alistair was necessarily our best chance at a lynch when you accelerated the case against him. He still needed something like 5 votes to get there and there were other candidates that could also have gotten there. My comment on your tunnel vision was with regards to a perceived lack of effort on your part to try to evaluate whether his call for help could possibly be Oaky. It looked to me as if you'd already made up your mind. What, everybody with only 2 or 3 votes? That wasn't going to happen. Nobody agreed on anybody else, and there likely wouldn't have time. If you think I have tunnel vision, you aren't reading what I'm saying, which wouldn't surprise me. The only reason he was able to give a call for help was because I went out of my way to consider an alternate possibility. Or am I supposed to say to every post "This could be scum... but it could also be town..."? That's not the way things get done. In reference to the contradictory things here... I think that your actions in private and your actions in public both indicate an effort to manipulate others to your agenda. My interpretation of your underlying intentions is that they're not any different. They're two sides of the same leaf. Then, referring to my last post, what am I supposed to do? I can't bring out suspicions in private. I can't bring them out in public. I guess the most pro-town thing to do would be to stop posting, wouldn't it? Manipulation is the wrong word. When I notice something deeply wrong in someone's behavior - like Alastair - it is my prerogative as an Oak to figure out what his deal is and, if he still seems like scum, vote for him. An Oak who just throws up votes to "take a stand" as it were, is useless. Oaks ought to actively rally to get those they believe to be Maple cut down. That's what I've been doing, to an extent. If you'll read my posts (please, read my posts - nobody else seems to want to!), you'll see that the majority of them involve questioning Alastair (and several others) - I honestly have kind of dropped the ball in the rallying department! This takes out your manipulation claim. Finally, I'd like you to explain in fine detail how voicing a suspicion to someone I wanted to suss out in private and being vocal about suspicions I have about people in public is manipulative. If we believe you in this completely unfounded claim, you're manipulative too. Let's all vote Lassie, she's trying to manipulate us by voting for me, which is clearly so scummy. I'm not against you in particular. I'm with the oaks, and right now, you look the least like an oak to me no matter how many times you try to tell us how strong of an oak you are. That's the same logic (voting for who you're most suspicious of) that has you with your vote on Alistair and I don't begrudge you that. It's the right way to approach these things, and I will acknowledge that I don't get a strong oaky flavor from Alistair either. You are most certainly wrong on your last comment, though. It would be far more unhelpful if I were not to vote for the person I'm most suspicious of. You are a detriment to the town today for two reasons. 1. "Poke" votes to "take a stand", as I mentioned before, are not helpful. If you honestly still think I'm scum after this conversation, then you need to get me lynched. That is pro-town play. 2. I'm an Oak. I can understand not trusting me, like Simon doesn't, but overtly claiming that I am the least Oak around is honestly laughable. Hazel? Catarina? Alastair? The list goes on. Even if you don't trust me, I am more Oak today than quite a few trees here. As for Alistair, it looks like he has the votes so I really hope he comes up maple tomorrow. Not only would that be a great start to this sordid affair, but in my mind, it would pretty much clear you. So that would help us get additional resolution to today's affairs and give me one person I'd feel like I could trust. I'm glad you're willing to see that. I look forward to having your trust when Alastair comes up Maple. Look - and this is to all who suspect me - I'm an Oak. Even if you don't believe my claims, believe how I have rebutted every legitimate accusation against me (William's doesn't count, his isn't legitimate). I'm not going to make you a friendship bracelet to prove that I am truly an Oak. I'm going to keep the course that I've been on, and I'm going to catch Maples. That's my job as an Oak. My job isn't to kiss up to everyone who gets uncomfortable because I'm trying to get who I suspect to be Maple lynched.
Dragonfire Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 So it seems Alistair will be lynched. Since he has the required number of votes, I'm not going to, as Buck puts it, "nail it some more". There's really not much point in me changing my vote as the lynch has been sealed, but I will just say that Barry's case on Catarina has changed my opinions on her. I find Alistair both scummy and confusing, but I have a sinking feeling that he's town (like most Day 1 lynches). At least if he does flip Oak, it will give us information on those most involved with him (namely Hazel, Bruce and Catarina)
jimmynick Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 "I think Alastair is scum but I'm not going to commit to it so I can tell you 'I told you so' later"? Did I catch that right?
Walter Kovacs Posted January 30, 2015 Author Posted January 30, 2015 Voting Update: Alastair Pear - 15 (Stickfig, Tamamono, Scaevola, Lord Duvors, jamesn, Lego Spy, PirateDave84, Zepher, Calanon, Bob, Hinckley, adventurer1, jluck, TinyPiesRUs, Mencot) Bruce Spruce - 8 (Scubacarrot, Fugazi, Penalty, Penalty, Penalty, Penalty, Penalty, fhomess) Bobby Beech - 5 (Penalty, Penalty, Penalty, Penalty, Penalty) Catarina Dogwood - 2 ( Brickelodeon, Goliath) Hazel Hazelnut - 2 (badboytje88, mostlytechnic) Chester Chestnut - 1 (TheLazyChicken) Agnes Cyprus - 1 (Dragonfire) Berty Birch - 1 (JackJonespaw) There are 2 Hours left in Day 1. It takes 13 votes to lynch.
Dragonfire Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 "I think Alastair is scum but I'm not going to commit to it so I can tell you 'I told you so' later"? Did I catch that right? Are you talking to me or Bruce? If you're talking to me, then I think Alastair's behaviour could either be coming from a confused, newbie scum or a confused, newbie townie. They're actually quite similar (I've been both myself- in mafiascum.net games in the past). He is playing in a scummy way, but that doesn't necessarily mean he is a Maple. There is little point in me voting for Alastair at this point because the lynch has been sealed. Before you accuse me of trying to not look bad/look good (like Chester earlier), consider the two options: jumping on a wagon after the lynch has been sealed, or not joining the wagon. The former would make me look bad whatever Alastair flips;; the latter would make me look bad were he to flip scum. And I would definitely have voted to get a lynch had the lynch not been sealed.
fhomess Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 So it is pretty much between Alastair and Bruce or just Alastair because, it seems that the total vote is of in Elders post. As you say, it's not really between anyone anymore. At this late stage, it's between Alastair and a no-lynch and you can't really affect that outcome. Since the vote is already secured, you can vote your conscience. The lynch is already nailed but I will also nail it so moreVote: Alastair Pear (Brickelodeon) Ok... care to elaborate? 1. "Poke" votes to "take a stand", as I mentioned before, are not helpful. If you honestly still think I'm scum after this conversation, then you need to get me lynched. That is pro-town play. It's not a poke vote to get you to speak. It's a vote based on my interpretation of your actions today. I don't feel strongly enough that Alastair is not a maple to fight for your lynch over his, but I do feel strongly enough about you to cast my vote your direction. Surely you can respect that even if you disagree. 2. I'm an Oak. I can understand not trusting me, like Simon doesn't, but overtly claiming that I am the least Oak around is honestly laughable. Hazel? Catarina? Alastair? The list goes on. Even if you don't trust me, I am more Oak today than quite a few trees here. Again, I'll just have to disagree for now. I won't say that I don't have suspicions on other trees right now, but I also don't think the case for Alastair is particularly strong. It's typical day 1 stuff, not the slam dunk you're making it out to be.
Dragonfire Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 OK. I have something to say to all you trees out there. I am the Town Miller. This means that if I am investigated, I will appear as a Maple I've claimed my role to someone in PM and they advised me to claim it out loud. I'm choosing to claim it now because I feel I am likely to be the investigator's target tonight and I wouldn't want them to waste their investigation on me and get the wrong result. There are no real benefits to me staying silent as at some point I will probably be investigated and claiming it after an investigation report would make me look like caught scum trying to escape. Believe my claim if you like. Investigator, just remember that whether I am lying or not, I am guaranteed to appear as a Maple to your investigation so there is no point in checking me tonight.
Walter Kovacs Posted January 30, 2015 Author Posted January 30, 2015 Voting Update: Alastair Pear - 15 (Stickfig, Tamamono, Scaevola, Lord Duvors, jamesn, Lego Spy, PirateDave84, Zepher, Calanon, Bob, Hinckley, adventurer1, jluck, TinyPiesRUs, Mencot) Bruce Spruce - 8 (Scubacarrot, Fugazi, Penalty, Penalty, Penalty, Penalty, Penalty, fhomess) Bobby Beech - 5 (Penalty, Penalty, Penalty, Penalty, Penalty) Catarina Dogwood - 2 ( Brickelodeon, Goliath) Hazel Hazelnut - 2 (badboytje88, mostlytechnic) Chester Chestnut - 1 (TheLazyChicken) Agnes Cyprus - 1 (Dragonfire) Berty Birch - 1 (JackJonespaw) There is 1 Hour left in Day 1. It takes 13 votes to lynch.
Piratedave84 Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 OK. I have something to say to all you trees out there. I am the Town Miller. This means that if I am investigated, I will appear as a Maple I've claimed my role to someone in PM and they advised me to claim it out loud. I'm choosing to claim it now because I feel I am likely to be the investigator's target tonight and I wouldn't want them to waste their investigation on me and get the wrong result. There are no real benefits to me staying silent as at some point I will probably be investigated and claiming it after an investigation report would make me look like caught scum trying to escape. Believe my claim if you like. Investigator, just remember that whether I am lying or not, I am guaranteed to appear as a Maple to your investigation so there is no point in checking me tonight. Claiming on day 1, any role, is risky business; what led you to think it was safe to do so? This being said, your move is the townie thing to do so I'm inclined to believe it for now.
Tamamono Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 It's not a poke vote to get you to speak. It's a vote based on my interpretation of your actions today. I don't feel strongly enough that Alastair is not a maple to fight for your lynch over his, but I do feel strongly enough about you to cast my vote your direction. Surely you can respect that even if you disagree. Eh, I know the feeling. I was a bit extreme earlier, I apologize. I don't agree with your decision to vote me (obviously), but I can respect that you're trying and that you're putting thought into your decision. Again, I'll just have to disagree for now. I won't say that I don't have suspicions on other trees right now, but I also don't think the case for Alastair is particularly strong. It's typical day 1 stuff, not the slam dunk you're making it out to be. I'm not making it out to be a slam dunk. I've made very clear that this is optimal, however. You got on my case earlier for ceding that Alastair might be town, and that we'll learn a lot from his lynch, and now you're accusing me of making his lynch out as a slam dunk. I mean, just think about the reasons why you suspect me. Write them down. More likely than not, they will contradict one another. Claiming on day 1, any role, is risky business; what led you to think it was safe to do so? In this case it narrows it down because it shows scum that he's not a PR, but eh, I think this was optimal. Berty's name came up a lot today, and if he's going to turn up Maple either way, the cop won't get anything from investigating him tonight.
Hinckley Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 In this case it narrows it down because it shows scum that he's not a PR, but eh, I think this was optimal. Berty's name came up a lot today, and if he's going to turn up Maple either way, the cop won't get anything from investigating him tonight. He claimed to me and I advised him to claim to everyone. In a side conversation with Jack Pine, Jack brought up he didn't think there was a Miller because nobody had claimed. Millers had gone out of style in my time so we had a discussion about them. When Berty claimed to me I advised him based on that conversation. Bruce's point above is a good one. Also, if he hadn't claimed this (assuming it's true) and the investigator did investigate him and he claimed after, we would almost certainly lynch him and waste a day lynching a Townie. That being said...what a great Scum gambit. Ow, my brain. I doubt there would be more than one Miller, so if anyone can refute Berty's claim, I think it would behoove us to hear it. Behoove? Since when is that word in my vocabulary?
Yzalirk Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 I find Alistair both scummy and confusing, but I have a sinking feeling that he's town (like most Day 1 lynches). At least if he does flip Oak, it will give us information on those most involved with him (namely Hazel, Bruce and Catarina) I'm quite flattered you added me there. And what information will we even get out of it if he turns up as an Oak? That we killed one off? That's some nice information that'll be put into good use.
Tamamono Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 And what information will we even get out of it if he turns up as an Oak? That we killed one off? That's some nice information that'll be put into good use. There are a lot of people who jumped on his bandwagon around the 7-8 vote mark in a very suspicious way. If Alastair is town, there is definitely scum on his wagon. Not much, but it's something.
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