Quisoves Pugnat Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 They aren't trolling. I'm willing to debate that Luke is worse than Galidor's style simply for the representation of humans here. For all of Galidor's simplicity (and ugliness), it never (or rarely) featured weirdly disjointed limbs on characters that were intended to represent a human being. I'll grant that Nick Bluetooth looks more human (though I should note that Galidor had only three human figures in a line of thirteen,) but that comes at the cost of very limited compatibility with most LEGO pieces. LEGO could just make garden-variety Star Wars action figures with glinching, but what would be the point? Limited mix-and-matching aside, that's nothing new there, nor anything particularly LEGO. And the fact remains, we're talking apples and oranges here. Simply saying "they're Galidor's second coming" is a gross misstatement, and smacks (to me, at least) of impulsive criticism. You may dislike them, but they're very different beasts. If folks merely disliked Galidor's portrayal of humans, then the theme would be fondly remembered by most. Example: Making a reboot of EXO-FORCE entirely out of CCBS. It's an insult to the legacy of the original line, and an arbitrary betrayal of the line's original goals, intentions and style. How? Exo-Force was never defined by being System. It rather pushed boundaries in that regard, what with its heavy use of Technic, Knights Kingdom-system (for want of a better term) pieces, and ball-joints. That's not to say I'm necessarily keen on a purely CCBS reboot of the line, but if it can be done well, then who am I to complain? I fail to see how it would inherently constitute an "arbitrary betrayal." In fact, if Exo-Force had been made within the past four years, I'd be willing to bet that it would have made significant use of CCBS, in the very least for the structural bits. But even assuming that it should absolutely not be done, that's a faulty example. These figures aren't replacing System Star Wars, after all. Quote
Mandate Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 I'll grant that Nick Bluetooth looks more human (though I should note that Galidor had only three human figures in a line of thirteen,) but that comes at the cost of very limited compatibility with most LEGO pieces. LEGO could just make garden-variety Star Wars action figures with glinching, but what would be the point? Limited mix-and-matching aside, that's nothing new there, nor anything particularly LEGO. And the fact remains, we're talking apples and oranges here. Simply saying "they're Galidor's second coming" is a gross misstatement, and smacks (to me, at least) of impulsive criticism. You may dislike them, but they're very different beasts. If folks merely disliked Galidor's portrayal of humans, then the theme would be fondly remembered by most. Yeah, can't really argue with you there. Galidor looked more accurate to what it was trying to represent, but CCBS does indeed do its job far better than Galidor in every way. I just wish LEGO at least make some effort to improve the sets that are intended to represent organic creatures. How? Exo-Force was never defined by being System. It rather pushed boundaries in that regard, what with its heavy use of Technic, Knights Kingdom-system (for want of a better term) pieces, and ball-joints. That's not to say I'm necessarily keen on a purely CCBS reboot of the line, but if it can be done well, then who am I to complain? I fail to see how it would inherently constitute an "arbitrary betrayal." In fact, if Exo-Force had been made within the past four years, I'd be willing to bet that it would have made significant use of CCBS, in the very least for the structural bits. Usually when I refer to System they mean Technic as well. Sorry about that. I have no issues seeing CCBS parts used in EXO-FORCE, just as long as they aren't the defining aspect of the line. But making the entire line CCBS? It's arbitrary. Unneeded, and it's straying away from what made EXO-FORCE a hit in the first place: Full compatibility with "regular" LEGO in every way you could think of, and an awesome line of mechs that many still love today. And after all the improvements in SNOT techniques and designer skills, it wouldn't be a happy day to see it go so far from its roots instead of improving on its base concept. We should probably discuss this somewhere else, it's pretty off-topic. Quote
Leewan Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Example: Making a reboot of EXO-FORCE entirely out of CCBS. It's an insult to the legacy of the original line, and an arbitrary betrayal of the line's original goals, intentions and style. But they're not making only CCBS Star Wars sets, there is also a lot of System sets this year. Star Wars will never become a pure constraction theme, unlike EF, where the buildable mechs (whether they're system or CCBS) is the main focus of the theme. BTW, there are a few CCBS parts in the Hulkbuster, and I don't recall having seen much hate expressed about it, although I could be totally wrong. Quote
zg0 Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 EXO-FORCE was the pioneer of System mechsweren't this and this 1st lego mechs? Quote
Mandate Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) But they're not making only CCBS Star Wars sets, there is also a lot of System sets this year. Star Wars will never become a pure constraction theme, unlike EF, where the buildable mechs (whether they're system or CCBS) is the main focus of the theme. BTW, there are a few CCBS parts in the Hulkbuster, and I don't recall having seen much hate expressed about it, although I could be totally wrong. What... how... why... exactly who are you responding to? Because I never mentioned the Hulkbuster, or Star Wars going full constraction anywhere. Despite what most people think, I'm not a complete moron. I'm very aware that Star Wars has a gigantic System line-up this year (and it certainly will next year, too), but what does that have to do with anything? But regarding the Hulkbuster, I'm talking about LEGO making full-blown CCBS mechs in lines that have always been System, not side-lines or using a part from CCBS here and there. weren't this and this 1st lego mechs? Some of the first. There was also the original Granite Grinder from Rock Raiders. They did very well for their time, but EF is what really made LEGO mechs doable. Edited February 16, 2015 by Mandate Quote
Logan McOwen Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Oh man. Oh man. I've never been interested in SW sets at all.. But that Vader is magnificent! He looks very solid and cohesive, and his silhouette is remarkably accurate to that of the real thing. As for Luke, I really like the head, and the weapons look fantastic... But that torso shell is awful. It's so... rounded, while also being corrugated. And what's with the exposed hip axles? Otherwise though, his arms and legs look fine... And he has a flesh tone hand! In terms of parts, I'm very happy to see that TLG haven't ditched the HF shoulder cups - hoping to see more of those in Bionicle! And, that new leg armour... That's sublime. I hope we get it in other colours, as that's gonna come in very handy. We're still getting more characters, yes? Quote
Shakar Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 We're still getting more characters, yes? Yup, Grievous, Obi Wan, Cody and Jango. I'm sure we're going to see lots of people building light sabers wielding Toa in the future, heck I'm going to do the same. :-D Quote
Logan McOwen Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Yup, Grievous, Obi Wan, Cody and Jango. Grievous? Holy Jehovah! Quote
Leewan Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 What... how... why... exactly who are you responding to? Because I never mentioned the Hulkbuster, or Star Wars going full constraction anywhere. I know, I said that because you talked about fans who would hate a "CCBSified" EF reboot, but such a thing is very different from Star Wars' current (or future, we're talking about upcoming sets) situation, where only a small portion of the whole range will be made of CCBS. That's what I was actually pointing (or trying to point ) : the difference between having CCBS in system lines (like the Star Wars Ultrabuilds range, which exists beside the Star Wars system range) and totally turning a system line into a CCBS line (like your EF example). Quote
Still Raindrop Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 "Usually when I refer to System they mean Technic as well." Just wanted to point out that Technic is different from System, even though they're often integrated. I still remember people fuming about how there's "Technic in my Lego! Why can't they just brick-build things?" It seems to have slowly own people over because it's great at doing a specific thing. CCBS/ball joints in general are the same--it's the best way of doing certain things. It's not going to take over System, but I can see it being integrated when it's most useful to do so. I am a huge fan of that Vader. Probably won't get him, but I may point him out to my action-figure-loving friend. Quote
The Outsider Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 That. Vader. Is.AWESOME!! Luke, on the other hand... look like an android, not a person. Though I'm mostly a Constraction fan, I have to admit the system has this fault: it's very hard to make a believable organic character. That's probably why I liked the Inika masks so much (I'm gonna get lynched, am I? ) No sure if anyone's noticed, but look at Vader's calves: there's an axle in the back. I think we finally got that full coverage armor we were asking about... (On a sidenote, I'm secretly hoping for a Knight's Kingdom II CCBS reboot every time I look at those calve pieces. But hopefully without the candy colors) And I wouldn't mind a CCBS Exo-Force reboot. In fact, I'd welcome it; maybe this time the robots might be interfacing rather than piloting their machines. My only complain is that it would be hard to make believable vehicles. But this is about Star Wars, so let's move on. Quote
DraikNova Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 (On a sidenote, I'm secretly hoping for a Knight's Kingdom II CCBS reboot every time I look at those calve pieces. But hopefully without the candy colors) KK II was practically defined by the candy colors. Quote
vexorian Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Very disappointed to hear there will be no C3PO. Would have gladly traded Luke or Obi Wan for C3PO. I'm getting really tired of this gigantic debate over CCBS and System. There's a river of hatred starting to flow under the surface, and it's going to explode sooner or later. Most of the "System Elitists" as you would call them just simply don't want CCBS in their favorite lines. This is not your favorite line. This is a new line of constraction Star Wars figures. System Lego Star Wars is still getting many new sets. You don't have to buy all Lego sets that have a Star Wars logo. Now if CCBS Luke was forcibly included in the next 500-th version of the Milenium Falcon that would be a different topic. (Star Wars sets come with Peach figures, not exactly the purists' safest haven) Example: Making a reboot of EXO-FORCE entirely out of CCBS. It's an insult to the legacy of the original line, and an arbitrary betrayal of the line's original goals, intentions and style. Exo Force sets had a bunch of Bionicle in them anyway. The NinjaGo mechs show that CCBS blend much better with system pieces than the Bionicle in Exo-Force. I am rather sure if there was an Exo-Force remake, it would go similar to the NinjaGo mechs, mixing system, technic and CCBS. Making them 100% CCBS would indeed be odd, but also quite unlikely. Actually, I doubt an exo-force rehash would ever happen, it is not really such a popular theme, even though it was cool, a local store still has Exo Force warming their shelves. Edited February 16, 2015 by vexorian Quote
The Outsider Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 KK II was practically defined by the candy colors. I honestly prefered the animal heralds matching the character's abilities/personalities and the storyline. Very disappointed to hear there will be no C3PO. Would have gladly traded Luke or Obi Wan for C3PO. This is not your favorite line. This is a new line of constraction Star Wars figures. System Lego Star Wars is still getting many new sets. You don't have to buy all Lego sets that have a Star Wars logo. Now if CCBS Luke was forcibly included in the next 500-th version of the Milenium Falcon that would be a different topic. (Star Wars sets come with Peach figures, not exactly the purists' safest haven) Exo Force sets had a bunch of Bionicle in them anyway. The NinjaGo mechs show that CCBS blend much better with system pieces than the Bionicle in Exo-Force. I am rather sure if there was an Exo-Force remake, it would go similar to the NinjaGo mechs, mixing system, technic and CCBS. Making them 100% CCBS would indeed be odd, but also quite unlikely. Actually, I doubt an exo-force rehash would ever happen, it is not really such a popular theme, even though it was cool, a local store still has Exo Force warming their shelves. My thoughts exactly; a mix of System and CCBS is far more likely. Didn't know the theme was so unpopular, though. Probably because it kept reusing the same pilots and "opposing bases united by a bridge" plot. Back on topic, I hope the Grievious figure has splitting limbs and four lightsabers. Quote
TheOneVeyronian Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) I noticed BZPower put up some more pictures of the Star Wars constraction figures, including views of the back of the figures. I'm quite disappointed to see tht Vader's back is a bunch of exposed Technic. I know it's hidden by the cape, but still feels like something is missing there... I'll just view it from the front all the time On the good side though, it does offer some insight into how Vader's beautifully complex torso is built. Luke's back somewhat breaks up the nice flow that the front torso shell offers (i.e. the front looks very gapless, whiih I like), but I don't mind it too much. Could have stiill been a lot worse... Edited February 16, 2015 by TheOneVeyronian Quote
Aanchir Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 BZPower's report also includes piece counts for the constraction range, including the sets that weren't on display (though they aren't identified by name so we still don't know which character has which piece count). Luke has 82 pieces, and Vader has 159. So pretty impressive, but not as high as BIONICLE sets at the same price point. That's to be expected though on account of the head molds being so expensive. The largest set ($35) has 182 pieces. My best guess is that that one is General Grievous. Are those Dark Stone Grey 7M beams on Vader's upper legs? Finally, a color other than Medium Stone Grey for those! Luke's back is a bit bare-bones, unfortunately. Quote
Dorek Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 I noticed BZPower put up some more pictures of the Star Wars constraction figures, including views of the back of the figures. I'm quite disappointed to see tht Vader's back is a bunch of exposed Technic. I know it's hidden by the cape, but still feels like something is missing there... I'll just view it from the front all the time Doesn't matter have cape. Quote
Shakar Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 The variety among the prices is quite surprising. Grievous has to be the biggest one, the $25 set is.. Jango, perhaps? The set has roughly the same piece count as Luke and the other two smaller sets, there must be some large parts that shoot the price up (weapons? A jetpack?). Vader has no back armour.. Eh, I guess we should've seen it coming. At least we can get some hints of this torso build, which seems to be very well designed. As I said before, I just hope the European prices aren't too high. Quote
TheOneVeyronian Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 I've been thinking about how those US prices translate to GBP, and I think this is most likely, based on how some of the prices for Bionicle and HF translated into sterling: $19.99 sets (Cody, Obi-Wan, Luke I believe): £14.99 $24.99 set (II agree with Shakar, I can see Boba occupying this price point): £19.99 $29.99 set (Darth Vader): £24.99 $34.99 set (got to be Grievous): £29.99-£34.99 There's nothing official about these, these are speculative guesstimates. I really hope that LEGO don't pull their USD=GBP thing for these though, I don't think I can pay thirty English pounds just for Vader! It's bad enough they did that for the Protectors. Hopefully TLG might surprise us Brits, but that's wishful thinking I guess. And yes: Vader really does prove that capes always cover the things they don't want you to see Quote
Mandate Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 I know, I said that because you talked about fans who would hate a "CCBSified" EF reboot, but such a thing is very different from Star Wars' current (or future, we're talking about upcoming sets) situation, where only a small portion of the whole range will be made of CCBS. That's what I was actually pointing (or trying to point ) : the difference between having CCBS in system lines (like the Star Wars Ultrabuilds range, which exists beside the Star Wars system range) and totally turning a system line into a CCBS line (like your EF example). Ohhhhh, now I see what you mean. I didn't mean to imply any connection between Ultrabuilds and a CCBS EF reboot, I was just using it as an example. This is not your favorite line. This is a new line of constraction Star Wars figures. System Lego Star Wars is still getting many new sets. You don't have to buy all Lego sets that have a Star Wars logo. I never said I did. I rarely buy Star Wars sets anyway, I'm just expressing my opinion. Really I don't like either of these, Vader seems to be too angular to me and Luke looks like a robot. I'm looking forward to Grievous, but I can also respect the techniques these sets have introduced, for instance, Vader is using an upside down torso piece, something I've never seen effectively used in a set/MOC before. Exo Force sets had a bunch of Bionicle in them anyway. Not really. It was used rather sparingly, actually. The NinjaGo mechs show that CCBS blend much better with system pieces than the Bionicle in Exo-Force. I am rather sure if there was an Exo-Force remake, it would go similar to the NinjaGo mechs, mixing system, technic and CCBS. Actually, I'm willing to debate that. CCBS is more of a "neutral" type of build, but while there are definitely some awkward examples of the "BBS" system in EXO-FORCE, very few of them could be solely blamed on "BBS" parts, eg, Sky Guardian's arms could also be blamed on poor parts usage on the System/©BBS hybrid side. And at any rate, the grand majority of parts used that came from the "BBS" system were for aesthetic purposes, or heavily technic based, such as Fire Vulture's claws. And I have to agree with you on that last point, it almost certanly would. I was using a CCBS EF reboot as an example of something that would really anger the System fanbase, but it was an irrelevant example as Leewan pointed out. Quote
GK733 Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) 35€ for Vader... sigh. 40€ for Grievious... sigh. Constraction is already damn expensive due to the size of parts and necessary need of new molds. Now they put the magnificent 5$/€ license on that and things get far too expensive. I'm somewhat okay with the 30$ Vader but asking 20$/25€ for such a bland figure as Luke is horrible. Really they just attached the unnecessary handcuffs and pistol so it won't look that poor. I'm sure Obi will be much better, same for Cody and Jango. If I'd had to choose I would take another Grinder and Ekimu over Vader. Edited February 17, 2015 by GK733 Quote
vexorian Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 By the looks of it Vader is basically a Titan so 29.99 is not so out of the world. Quote
GK733 Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 By the looks of it Vader is basically a Titan so 29.99 is not so out of the world. Not even close to something like Maxilos though. He even came with a friggin dog and was priced the same. Quote
Shakar Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) The sets are 8 years apart one from the other, and one of them is a licensed set. The comparison just can't work. EDIT: In case some have yet to realize how stupidly overpriced SW sets are for us Yuropoors, I took a look at S@H and the results are quite depressing. Just three examples: a $20 set, a $40 one, and a $50 set went for, in the Italian S@H, respectively: 28 Euro, 50 Euro and, worst of them all, 65 Euro! Edited February 17, 2015 by Shakar Quote
vexorian Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 Not even close to something like Maxilos though. He even came with a friggin dog and was priced the same. I guess a comparison to Evo XL Machine would make more sense. Quote
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