I don't mind $10 per wheel. I'll probably get the metal ones for my diesels and plastic for the coaches. Right now I ordered 8 plastic ones, as I have student loans to pay off, but I'm sure down the road I'll order at least 16 metal ones and more plastic. It's worth it to me.

where can I order these wheels?!

Does they work with recent PF train motor? I mean as far as I understood from the conversation the "normal" sized wheels are a little bit smaller than LEGO ones - can PF train motor bodies pass over crossings without getting stuck on the crossing? I plan to use these wheels to power PF-trainmotors.

where can I order these wheels?!

Does they work with recent PF train motor? I mean as far as I understood from the conversation the "normal" sized wheels are a little bit smaller than LEGO ones - can PF train motor bodies pass over crossings without getting stuck on the crossing? I plan to use these wheels to power PF-trainmotors.

You can order them from Shapeways, where I linked to. My normal ones are slightly smaller than the official Lego ones but I plan on updating the model to make them the same size. May I ask why you're interested in these wheels since you're planning on using them with the PF train motor?

of course, you may ask, I plan to use them as 9V train motors, I plan to connect with copper plates the wheels on one side, with other plate on the other side, and then connect the two polarities to the cable of the PF train motor. With this mod I can replace old and expansive 9V train motors with replaceable, cheaper and strogner PF-ones. I really need motors for my heavy 8W trains, but I can't afford to buy 9V motors always, with these metal wheels I can maintain my fleet much more cheaper.

of course, you may ask, I plan to use them as 9V train motors, I plan to connect with copper plates the wheels on one side, with other plate on the other side, and then connect the two polarities to the cable of the PF train motor. With this mod I can replace old and expansive 9V train motors with replaceable, cheaper and strogner PF-ones. I really need motors for my heavy 8W trains, but I can't afford to buy 9V motors always, with these metal wheels I can maintain my fleet much more cheaper.

If you end up ordering some, post some photos of what you cook up. Sounds neat. I'll post some photos of my own setup when my next 6 wheels get here to complete the 8 I need.

What makes you think we all have lathes that can machine steel? And even if we paid someone, who would do it for less than $10 per wheel?

Well it would take me about five minutes per wheel, probably less so that would be well over 10 wheels an hour, or $100 per hour. An hours worth of overheads and cost of materials would probably leave about $80 an hour to put in my pocket so I think there would be ample scope for getting them done for much less than $10, and probably less than $5 if the quantity ordered is high enough.

Well it would take me about five minutes per wheel, probably less so that would be well over 10 wheels an hour, or $100 per hour. An hours worth of overheads and cost of materials would probably leave about $80 an hour to put in my pocket so I think there would be ample scope for getting them done for much less than $10, and probably less than $5 if the quantity ordered is high enough.

Are you willing to make them for us for less than Shapeways?

I would expect that just about anyone with a lathe would be prepared to make them for far less than Shapeways as it is a much more appropriate and cheaper method of manufacture. After all a 3d printer is best at making complex 3d shapes. It can take hours to print out a wheel on a machine that costs thousands of dollars. Is it any wonder that making a round thing on a machine designed specifically to make round things in minutes that costs hundreds rather than thousands of dollars is going to be far cheaper and easier?

Heck if I could sell all the wheels I could make day in day out on my lathe for $10 each I'd give up my day job and buy a nice new Range Rover!

Back in the real world I would only be able to sell a few hundred I would expect at best, so it would end up being a spare time hobby job, and as spare time is something I have got precious little of at the moment its scarcity tends to put its value up somewhat...

Edited February 4, 201510 yr by Heppeng

A lathe is a good way for small, low production unless it is CNC unit. Steel is a bad material from a rust point of view. I have a company producing some prototype units, CNC and plating and pickups. Built in to a pf wheel set in two forms. Or made and kit to add to existing wheel sets. I dist wasn't too say to much as the project has left cad stage and is in the machine shop. Watch this space.......

Edited February 5, 201510 yr by garethjellis

For less than $5, I need about 100 of the standard sized wheels in aluminum or steel. So if either of you want to put out, do it, otherwise, you're just cluttering this thread with irrelevant discussion. I called several local machine shops and they all said the axle hole was too small.

I'm afraid these are not what you are looking for. The flange is smaller but the overall size is the same. I could however whip up a blind wheel for you. God knows it'd be useful in my own designs as well. Sliding middle axles are tricky when the bogie is PF powered.

Oh man, If you make blind standard-size train wheels in the future I would for sure buy like 30 of them. I like a lot of three-axle diesel loco's.

The axle hole's not too small, just would require a special broaching tool to do, and they don't want to buy one. Most machine shops though would charge you more than $10 to do anyway, even if they do just chuck it up into a CNC (which they would) and run 100 of them. Overhead is crazy expensive at an actual shop, and most are thrilled if they can manage a 30% gross on a job. A guy in his garage may be a different story, but businesses aren't free.

Alternatively, if there's enough demand for a particular design, we could MIM these in stainless. Surface finish would be significantly better than the Shapeway ones, and cost/piece would be really cheap. The upfront tooling, however, would be significantly more, such that we'd probably have to get 750-1000 pieces to break even. If you guys think there's enough demand though, I'd be willing to get quotes. I know the vendors; I could get it done.

Ok, just to prove my point, you can get the wheel shown in the middle here (lego wheel on left for comparison):

$17.95 for a pack of 4, i.e under $5 each - http://www.shop.osor...?productId=2204

Somehow I do not think they are selling at a loss. All that is needed is to bore out the center (no additional machining cost, just use a bigger drill) and push in an ABS plastic insert with the cross axle hole. You could use a turned down center from a plastic lego wheel which is available for a few cents. Most people here could buy the wheels above and modify them using nothing more than a drill successfully, rather than getting someone else to do it.

I rest my case....

Edited February 5, 201510 yr by Heppeng

They actually sell the wheels only for $1.50/each. I bought 20. But they don't have the cross axle hole, which is the whole point. Additionally, the flange on them is not angled enough, and the edge of it catches on the joints between turns if you have a 3 axle bogie with 1 stud between wheels. Believe me, I've tried.

http://shop.osorail.com/product.sc?productId=2927

What do you mean by plastic insert?

Edited February 5, 201510 yr by legoman666

What do you mean by plastic insert?

He means the end user would have to make a sleeve insert for the wheel that would engage a technic axle like normal plastic loco wheels do.

They actually sell the wheels only for $1.50/each. I bought 20. But they don't have the cross axle hole, which is the whole point. Additionally, the flange on them is not angled enough, and the edge of it catches on the joints between turns if you have a 3 axle bogie with 1 stud between wheels. Believe me, I've tried.

http://shop.osorail....?productId=2927

What do you mean by plastic insert?

To be honest I was just using a very similar wheel turned on a lathe as a comparison of price verses 3d printing. I am sure that making one to a slightly different profile would not add to production costs. Just goes to show just how much can be saved when a more appropriate manufacturing method is used.

He means the end user would have to make a sleeve insert for the wheel that would engage a technic axle like normal plastic loco wheels do.

Yes, although clearly being able to make a metal wheel for $1.50, I am sure that a metal wheel with plastic insert for the cross axle could be made for retail for significantly less than $5, let alone $10. it would also have the advantage that the axle would be being pushed in to plastic as lego intended, which would no doubt improve fit and reduce any likelyhood of damage. I think that the reason why the machine shops would have turned this down is the difficulty in making the cross hole in metal - too small to mill, which even if it was not would push the price up, and making a special broach again would make it more expensive. Making it in two parts means that you can use the more appropriate material in the area where it is needed, slash production cost, get a better finish and get something that works better all in one!

Edited February 5, 201510 yr by Heppeng

All three of my orders shipped. Excited to get the steam wheels in my hands.

It's interesting how many rare pieces you can get with printing!

I received 8 gray nylon plastic wheels today. They look and feel great, and are much more rigid and durable than I had expected.

If there's one issue I have, it's that the technic axle hole is a bit too loose. The wheels are a wobbly, though thankfully they're about the same thickness as technic 1/2 bushes, and can be reinforced on either side unlike the stock LEGO wheels which are slightly thicker.

The wheels stay on the track, but would be more secure if the conical perimeter of the inner section extended out further while keeping the innermost technic axle hole section the same thickness as a 1/2 bush.

I'll try to highlight this with pictures later.

Edited February 12, 201510 yr by Aaron

legoman666, I'm now back in town, and I did notice a few things we had on there are off a bit, but you should still be able to use the parts. The biggest thing I found wrong was the counterbore depth of the technic pin hole should be 0.8mm, and I had it at 0.5mm. Not a tremendous difference, but it could make a pin not really want to lock in there. At worst, you could use a flat-bottom drill to clean it up. I've updated my model as well as added the taper to the wheel and half a dozen other little details. If you find anything else wrong, let me know, and then I'll provide an updated .stl.

Aaron, mark up what you find, and I'll make an .stl file for you too.

Roger that. My 3 packages arrive Friday and Saturday and I'll be able to test them then.

My initial test was on ME Models track, which the wheels work fine on. I tested it on power functions track, and it doesn't stay on the track very well. I fixed my computer, so I'm going to give SketchUp a shot and see what I come up with when I have free time Monday, since I work nonstop Friday through Sunday.

Here are two images of a wheelset on Power Functions track. The first one is centered, but the second one is shifted just slightly. There appears to be about 3mm of extra space (1.5mm per side when centered) between the flanges and rails. Extending the rear inner circle to about 1mm thick so that the flanges are pushed out more, then concaving the front of the wheel proportionately (so that it still takes up 1/2 of a technic bush on the axle) should help, as well as extending the conical treads by about 1mm. Real train wheels usually have deeper concaves on the inner part of the treads, so it would not only function better with these improvements, but also look more realistic.

Edited February 12, 201510 yr by Aaron

The spacing on all Lego wheel sets is greater than 4 studs. I think you'll have better luck if you space them out more than 4. Maybe 4.5ish. A minor redesign might also be in order. I'll see what I come up with when mine arrive.

The spacing on all Lego wheel sets is greater than 4 studs. I think you'll have better luck if you space them out more than 4. Maybe 4.5ish. A minor redesign might also be in order. I'll see what I come up with when mine arrive.

Standard LEGO wheels don't have that kind of gap with my wheel sets, though. They work just fine.

Standard LEGO wheels don't have that kind of gap with my wheel sets, though. They work just fine.

Yes they do, about 4.5 studs:

Here's what I came up with my set of 8 wheels:

I use phosphor bronze wire to rub against the back of the wheel. Works okay. Can't scrape both sides on the same truck though, so each pole only gets 2 pickups.

Issue: The flange is so big that the outside rim of the flange rides on the bottom of the ME Models curves and on standard Lego switches. An issue for 2 reason, it makes the train go faster around curves since the diameter of the outside of the flange is greater than the diameter of the part of the wheel that's supposed to ride on the track, and second, loss of traction. Made a video to try to show this. Train speed is supposed to be constant through the turn.

For some reason these were the only wheels that I've received so far even though all 3 sets were shipped at the same time from the same place.