Piratedave84 Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 Of course the night lasted through my entire 3-day weekend, and of course there's seven pages of nonsense waiting for me when I get home after work. Oh well. Based on a quick scan of the approximately one zillion posts, I'm initially surprised by the lack of discussion about the miller claim. The next thing I'd like to ask is what caused Bruce Spruce and Clem Elm to abandon their initial positions Day One (against Berty Birch) and add to votes almost immediately to mine against Alastair Pear? add their* votes Well, I suppose you'll have to lynch me after you get done with Maggie; some of us have trouble keeping up with more than 100 posts per 24 hours. I told a few people last night that Bruce Spruce was at the top of my Maple list... now I suppose I'll have to wait and see, at least one night. Yep, and this was good enough to get my vote, except that Chester happened.... This was the 6th vote against Alastair. Below is the 8th vote against Catarina. So I suppose you just wait until a tree has five or six votes against them, and then pounce on that bandwagon for obvious reasons, because aw, what the heck. Vote: Chester Chestnut (Lego Spy) Correction: His was the 6th vote both times. Also, Nash Ash, you said you were going to vote, not sure if this is good enough (formatting rules and all that). Ehh, don't read too much into it unless I die tonight.... By my count that makes 12 votes for Catarina Dogwood and we have a lynch; my vote against Chester Chesty is unchanged. See you all in another 6-7 pages of ridiculous. God I hope you die tonight, you're a useless twig, a thorn in the Oak's sides!
Walter Kovacs Posted February 5, 2015 Author Posted February 5, 2015 Voting Update: Catarina Dogwood (adventurer1) - 12 (jamesn, Hinckley, JackJonespaw, jluck, Scaevola, Lego Spy, Bob, Lord Duvors, Fugazi, Goliath, Dragonfire, TheLazyChicken) Chester Chestnut - 3 (StickFig, Zepher, Calanon) Nash Ash (Zepher) - 1 (TinyPiesRUs) Maggie Magnolia (Calanon) - 1 (Scubacarrot) There are just over 8 Hours left in Day 2. With 22 Players, it takes 12 votes to lynch.
Mencot Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 God I hope you die tonight, you're a useless twig, a thorn in the Oak's sides! Every game, every game is the same for this guy. You can't use the same excuses in every game you play. I also live in a different timezone than the most of these guys but I try to be active more than once per Real life day. Look what happened to me on day 1, was really busy and wasn't active and I was night killed. Maybe you should been a better target no offence meant!
Lady K Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 I like Jack Pine's idea that the living all use their codes to communicate with the stumps. That way, the stumps will know everyone's role and be able to sort any conflicting claims. They can share this info with a trusted source if anything comes up. If Catarina is oak, she should definitely post codes to everyone before the day ends. I notice that those who have sent codes out have only included one number for vanilla. This will make things more complicated, but there should probably be about 10 different numbers for vanilla. This is all a logistical nightmare, but if things go right it could pay off big time. I still don't agree with the whole codes thing. I think too much valuable time has been wasted on it, an entire day in fact. Other things need to be considered such as what could the maples possibly have that could counter the stumps. Or what happens if my stump disappears too, how will you know my affiliation and be able to analyze voting patterns. Has anyone really looked at who may be flying under the radar? This is the first game that hasn't been taken seriously into account. And I don't agree with allowing those not used to reading a lot of pages extra lead way. This is the largest game I have played, and I have tried my best to keep up. I think maples are using that fact to create a lot pages of arguments (of which I got drawn into), face it how many of you actually paid attention to what was going on with all the bickering? Maples are creating confusion so they can slide under the radar while Oaks don't pay attention because its too much to read.
badboytje88 Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 I notice my vote didn't get caunted, probably cause I voted for Caterina instead of Catarina... Let's try this again. Vote: Catarina Dogwood (adventurer1)
MagPiesRUs Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 I still don't agree with the whole codes thing. I think too much valuable time has been wasted on it, an entire day in fact. Other things need to be considered such as what could the maples possibly have that could counter the stumps. Or what happens if my stump disappears too, how will you know my affiliation and be able to analyze voting patterns. All of the code discussion certainly will be wasted if you and others don't decide to use it. Again, there is absolutely nothing to lose by sending out codes. If you're an oak, you're an ideal candidate to PM out codes since you know for a fact you'll be dead tomorrow. This plan may be too much effort for a lot of people, so instead I'll appeal to everyone's selfishness: you're probably less likely to be killed by the scum tonight if you send out codewords to everyone. There is a chance this whole operation won't yield anything, but I'm willing to bet the maples are at least a little fearful it could actually work, and may pick their kill-targets accordingly. And with that I'm going to sleep, comforted by the knowledge that I won't have to use the word "code" for another 48 hours...
Lady K Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 All of the code discussion certainly will be wasted if you and others don't decide to use it. Again, there is absolutely nothing to lose by sending out codes. If you're an oak, you're an ideal candidate to PM out codes since you know for a fact you'll be dead tomorrow. This plan may be too much effort for a lot of people, so instead I'll appeal to everyone's selfishness: you're probably less likely to be killed by the scum tonight if you send out codewords to everyone. There is a chance this whole operation won't yield anything, but I'm willing to bet the maples are at least a little fearful it could actually work, and may pick their kill-targets accordingly. And with that I'm going to sleep, comforted by the knowledge that I won't have to use the word "code" for another 48 hours... Except for one flaw in your plan; I am an Oak! I will be lynched today so I will not be with you in any form tomorrow, so what good would codes from me do?
fhomess Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 Except for one flaw in your plan; I am an Oak! I will be lynched today so I will not be with you in any form tomorrow, so what good would codes from me do? The only way you could know that you will not be with us in any form is if you are a maple and know for a fact whether or not Alastair was janitored. The general consensus has been that it is far more likely that Alastair was janitored than that all lynches end up unknown. With only one night of information to go on, I think we have to go with the most likely conclusion until we have more information. If you were an Oak, you would consider the possibility that you may be around tomorrow and prepare accordingly. The only thing lost if you're not a stump is your own time and effort. Vote: Catarina Dogwood (adventurer1)
Walter Kovacs Posted February 5, 2015 Author Posted February 5, 2015 Voting Update: Catarina Dogwood (adventurer1) - 14 (jamesn, Hinckley, JackJonespaw, jluck, Scaevola, Lego Spy, Bob, Lord Duvors, Fugazi, Goliath, Dragonfire, TheLazyChicken, badboytje88, fhomess) Chester Chestnut - 3 (StickFig, Zepher, Calanon) Nash Ash (Zepher) - 1 (TinyPiesRUs) Maggie Magnolia (Calanon) - 1 (Scubacarrot) There are 5 Hours left in Day 2. With 22 Players, it takes 12 votes to lynch.
Lady K Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 The only way you could know that you will not be with us in any form is if you are a maple and know for a fact whether or not Alastair was janitored. The general consensus has been that it is far more likely that Alastair was janitored than that all lynches end up unknown. With only one night of information to go on, I think we have to go with the most likely conclusion until we have more information. If you were an Oak, you would consider the possibility that you may be around tomorrow and prepare accordingly. The only thing lost if you're not a stump is your own time and effort. Vote: Catarina Dogwood (adventurer1) Wrong. I will be lynched! Reread rule 8b. A dead player may not post to any living player. I am assuming that stumps are the exception for however long they are with us. I will be lynched! Therefore I will be considered dead! Just like all lynches in previous games. The only thing we oaks lost from Alister is to know whether he was an oak or a maple. A lynch is still a lynch. Why would it be any different when the rules remain the same?
jimmynick Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 Night kills are traditionally dead in other games, too. For all we know, a lynched player can become a stump. Lassie's right that the only way you could be certain that you won't be around tomorrow in any form is if you have secret information, i.e. you're scum. Toodle-oo, Maple!
fhomess Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 I'm sorry, but we still don't have enough information to know whether or not the lynch target is treated differently from night kills as a matter of course or because there was maple involvement. If we assume for a moment that the alignment was hidden because Alastair was janitored, then it's also safe to assume that we don't know how a lynch is handled when the lynchee is NOT janitored. You are basing your judgement on a single night of evidence. You are spending more effort convincing us that participating in the codes is pointless than it would take for you to send out a few codes and hope that maybe you're wrong and it will help. How is that oaky?
Lady K Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 I'm sorry, but we still don't have enough information to know whether or not the lynch target is treated differently from night kills as a matter of course or because there was maple involvement. If we assume for a moment that the alignment was hidden because Alastair was janitored, then it's also safe to assume that we don't know how a lynch is handled when the lynchee is NOT janitored. You are basing your judgement on a single night of evidence. You are spending more effort convincing us that participating in the codes is pointless than it would take for you to send out a few codes and hope that maybe you're wrong and it will help. How is that oaky? Because I think the oaks are being terribly mislead by the maples. However, in rereading the rules there is another change. It states a dead player may not communicate with other players living or dead. So no, I don't know or have inside information, I just think there is way too much trust placed by many in a few for only Day 2!
jimmynick Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 However, in rereading the rules there is another change. It states a dead player may not communicate with other players living or dead. Stumps aren't dead players because they are still interacting with us! :wall: :wall: Here's some leisure reading for you: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Tree_Stump
Lady K Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 Stumps aren't dead players because they are still interacting with us! :wall: :wall: Here's some leisure reading for you: http://wiki.mafiascu...itle=Tree_Stump That is my point exactly! They are still here. You have to consider the possibility that lynches don't turn into stumps! Our two stumps were not lynched. Alistair was removed so alignment was not known. He was a lynch. What if lynches alignment can be known but they don't turn into stumps? What then? Has this possibility even been considered? Why would the rules be worded they way they are then? If a rule doesn't mean anything then why include it?
jimmynick Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 I have considered the possibility that lynches don't turn into stumps, but you also have to consider the possibility that they can. You are failing to do that and grasping at straws.
Lady K Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 I have considered the possibility that lynches don't turn into stumps, but you also have to consider the possibility that they can. You are failing to do that and grasping at straws. No one has offered to let me turn into a tree stump to avoid my lynch! So how else could I then become one? I am being lynched, not killed. Go back and reread the link you sent me yourself!
jimmynick Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 I will be lynched! Therefore I will be considered dead! This is where your logic is fatally flawed. There is no rule that says you can't become a tree stump if you get lynched. There's also no rule that says you do become a tree stump if you get night killed. You are basing your conclusions off one night of results. And, as we know, the plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
mostlytechnic Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 Vote: Catarina Dogwood (adventurer1) I've been avoiding that because I thought it was a bandwagony lynch based on an astrisk. Seemed baseless. But now... with her "knowing" she'll be dead tomorrow! That's the biggest one. And the noob "I've never played with a janitor so..." arguments and then claiming you're not playing the noob card.... I've never played with a janitor either (assuming that's what's going on. Could be something else given the stump surprise today.) but I at least could google a little when it came up rather than just waaaaaa-ing. But mostly knowing you'll be gone tomorrow and unable to do anything, as opposed to being a stump. Heck, could be very possible that oaks leave stumps and maples don't. Or could be lynches don't leave stumps, in which case you'll be gone. Or could be.... lots of things, but IF YOU'RE AN OAK YOU DON'T KNOW. (not to mention, if you're an oak you'd want to help the other oaks and you'd send code lists as has been requested over and over and you just keep refusing) Because I think the oaks are being terribly mislead by the maples. However, in rereading the rules there is another change. It states a dead player may not communicate with other players living or dead. So no, I don't know or have inside information, I just think there is way too much trust placed by many in a few for only Day 2! Oh, and THAT'S NOT A RULE CHANGE! The current rule 8b is EXACTLY what the original rule 8 was. And it's in every other forest here. That is normal! The stumps being here and able to communicate is the rule change, and something we need to take advantage of!
Lady K Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 This is where your logic is fatally flawed. There is no rule that says you can't become a tree stump if you get lynched. There's also no rule that says you do become a tree stump if you get night killed. You are basing your conclusions off one night of results. And, as we know, the plural of "anecdote" is not "data". I am basing my opinion on what I perceive to be a possibility. The only rules we have on tree stumps in those of you who have played with one before and what wiki.mafiascum says. This is new territory, I have considered all possibilities, but my thought process is to include the unlikely, and remote possibilities in a given situation as well as the obvious. I see a plan in place for an obvious, easy solution. What I don't see is a plan in place for the unlikely or remote, which is I don't get to become a stump and you lose my alignment. Please try to understand where I am coming from.
jimmynick Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 Except for one flaw in your plan; I am an Oak! I will be lynched today so I will not be with you in any form tomorrow, so what good would codes from me do? I will be lynched! Therefore I will be considered dead! No one has offered to let me turn into a tree stump to avoid my lynch! So how else could I then become one? You say, with great certainty, that you will not become a stump because you will be lynched, and now you say that it is "unlikely or remote" for you not to become a stump? The fact is, if you don't become a stump, then it is impossible for us to get information about your alignment.
Lady K Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 Vote: Catarina Dogwood (adventurer1) I've been avoiding that because I thought it was a bandwagony lynch based on an astrisk. Seemed baseless. But now... with her "knowing" she'll be dead tomorrow! That's the biggest one. And the noob "I've never played with a janitor so..." arguments and then claiming you're not playing the noob card.... I've never played with a janitor either (assuming that's what's going on. Could be something else given the stump surprise today.) but I at least could google a little when it came up rather than just waaaaaa-ing. But mostly knowing you'll be gone tomorrow and unable to do anything, as opposed to being a stump. Heck, could be very possible that oaks leave stumps and maples don't. Or could be lynches don't leave stumps, in which case you'll be gone. Or could be.... lots of things, but IF YOU'RE AN OAK YOU DON'T KNOW. (not to mention, if you're an oak you'd want to help the other oaks and you'd send code lists as has been requested over and over and you just keep refusing) Oh, and THAT'S NOT A RULE CHANGE! The current rule 8b is EXACTLY what the original rule 8 was. And it's in every other forest here. That is normal! The stumps being here and able to communicate is the rule change, and something we need to take advantage of! First off, I did look up what a janitor did on mafia wiki. I also looked up what other roles might be in play here. I am not stupid, complaining, whining, or acting the poor little noob. I am frustrated that my fellow oaks refuse to see anything other than what they are being led to see. Has everyone else sent a code? Am I really the only one? Seriously out of 22 people, I am the only one that hasn't sent in a code yet? So because I am uncomfortable with sending a code I am not an Oak? To be an Oak I have to do exactly like all the other Oaks (sheep)?
jimmynick Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 We see plenty of possibilities and we would be able to capitalize on one of them (if you become a stump) if you just send a code to someone. Which you steadfastly refuse to do because you are certain you will be "dead" dead tomorrow.
Lady K Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 You say, with great certainty, that you will not become a stump because you will be lynched, and now you say that it is "unlikely or remote" for you not to become a stump? The fact is, if you don't become a stump, then it is impossible for us to get information about your alignment. What are you getting at here? I said that I include the remote and unlikely possibilities in any given situation as well as the obvious and easy solutions. I don't know if I will become a stump or not. If I don't become a stump, I don't know how you would know my alignment. But you need to consider that a possibility.
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