Unrest in the Forest, Day 2: Fly By Night

[Mencot]

I also find it hard to believe that we had 2 maple kills last night. Unless they knew something about Buck, I can't imagine him being a threat to them. No offense, Buck. However, I was once part of a Scum team that got two kills one night. It was a unique situation but it happened...

Non taken but I can´t think any case that I would had been a treat to town in this game so far. But if it was the vig kill, I guess he had a good idea why or then he just wanted to root some quiet out, like simon said at one point.

But there could be a serial killer, in valhalla 2 or what that game was called a tree (me) was killed night one because the serial killer tree though my acting was scummy.

[mostlytechnic]

And how likely is it that everyone knows your normal way of handling things. I think you are trying to cast doubt on things that don't neccesarily need doubt on them. You, Mr pine, are super duper suspicious.

Really, I'm suspicious because I expected something to be handled the normal way that most games handle it?

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Miller - see the first recommendation on how to be a miller?

And EVERY SINGLE other forest I've been in here at EB?

Now, if Berty (sorry for calling you a she, but darn that sounds like a girl's name to me) wasn't familiar with that role, I'd have assume a quick googling of it would have happened and guess what- the first hit for "mafia miller" is the page I posted above. So yep, when we were most of the way through day 1 I assumed there was no miller around.

[Scaevola]

Regarding Clem's suspicion of Bobby:

Several people pointed out this odd fluff. Blatant, brazenly so. Kind of a funny way to contribute. But it is ping-worthy. I know another tree who has tried it before or even endorses this type of response but he's speedy.

I asked for clarification on this several times and he never gave it and ultimately ignored me and stopped answering. See? Ignoring accusations is Scummy. Answering to them is helpful. Got that, Nash?

The original issue here was Berty telling Nash he must've meant Garden Variety Oak and Bobby didn't understand why the assumption was bad. He answers me that there were alternate possibilities to what Berty could mean. Yet he only answered one. I pressed several times for clarification. So, why did he never clarify this and why was he defending Berty anyway? It reminds me of my ping of Larry Larch. Defending people, without much reason, just trying to buddy up and appear helpful. Here are the rest of his posts. Click the arrow next to his name, it will take you to the Day One thread so you can see his post in context. (bold below added for emphasis)

This didn't ping me, but it irked me. Freud's theories are not out of date.

Did you vote for him because he was metagaming or because you thought he was Scum?

Beech's defense of Catarina and Berty seemed suspicious to me as well.

Another tendency I noted is that several of his posts are baseless assertions bloated by some fluffy filler. The third, fifth, and sixth of his quoted posts exemplify this. Beech certainly didn't care to justify any of his defenses.

[Hinckley]

Another tendency I noted is that several of his posts are baseless assertions bloated by some fluffy filler. The third, fifth, and sixth of his quoted posts exemplify this. Beech certainly didn't care to justify any of his defenses.

It's basically the definition of filler. He talks in circles.

And that random defending, just like my least favorite tree, Larry Larch, is very suspicious.

[jluck]

Beech's defense of Catarina and Berty seemed suspicious to me as well.

Another tendency I noted is that several of his posts are baseless assertions bloated by some fluffy filler. The third, fifth, and sixth of his quoted posts exemplify this. Beech certainly didn't care to justify any of his defenses.

This is pretty compelling...

What bothers me the most is that he hasn't presented any real opinion. He defends himself somewhat, but mostly rambles. Constantly stating he has nothing to add doesn't make him seem like a useful oak either.

[Dragonfire]

Really, I'm suspicious because I expected something to be handled the normal way that most games handle it?

http://wiki.mafiascu...hp?title=Miller - see the first recommendation on how to be a miller?

And EVERY SINGLE other forest I've been in here at EB?

Now, if Berty (sorry for calling you a she, but darn that sounds like a girl's name to me) wasn't familiar with that role, I'd have assume a quick googling of it would have happened and guess what- the first hit for "mafia miller" is the page I posted above. So yep, when we were most of the way through day 1 I assumed there was no miller around.

What sounds like a girl's name? Berty, or Dragonfire?

I knew what a Miller was, I just didn't know how to play as one. I honestly wouldn't have claimed at all had I not been under suspicion. I googled "how to play as a miller" once I was under suspicion.

Bobby and Larry are both n00bs, remember, and fillering / random defending / fluff posting are what n00bs do. Not saying that this is excusable behaviour, but just pointing something out.

Bobby did this in his previous game as scum. Obviously he hasn't learned.

or then he just wanted to root some quiet out, like simon said at one point.

Was this an intentional pun??

[Lady K]

After re-reading all 8 pages, I can say that in particular, Catarina, Chester and Agnes are looking scummy. But hey, that's nothing new. Hazel is looking a bit like a confused newbie.

I personally think that the stumps should claim at their discretion;; it is their choice. Stumps, you might want to PM the host and ask if you "die" at the end of the day.

In terms of the possible janitor action, I've played with the janitor role before, but it was on a very different site (the role was always a scum one-shot role and townies were always targeted). It is possible that this applies to all lynches. Alastair could have gone either way IMO.

One thing, before I reply to the stuff mentioning me and my claim: Barry posted his case yesterday against Catarina. I've received a PM from Catarina which makes it clear that she's still only suspecting those who suspect/argue with her. Ping.

I'm also surprised.

Yeah, nobody cares .

I claimed to Simon because I thought that he might already be in contact with the investigator (because he does seem to be a "hot spot" for PM activity doesn't he?). I wasn't sure about how to handle the miller role, and I came to the conclusion that it wouldn't really hurt me to claim it; it would benefit town to know the existence of a miller. I did think that I would be the investigation target, because out of the whole discussion yesterday, I viewed myself as one of the main targets of suspicion and therefore a possible investigator target.

Oh, and I'm a he.

There is unlikely to be more than one Bomb in the game.

As I said, I've never been, or played with, a miller before and I was unsure about how to handle the role.

Exactly. And it wasn't reputation, but rather I didn't want town to waste an investigation on me and therefore a lynch too.

Oh, I forgot to say that I think Bobby's lurking/unhelpfulness and Hazel's fishing both look bad to me.

Are you suggesting that the Vigilante publicly outing can be compared to my outing? They're totally different. The Miller role is the only role which is advantageous to out on Day One. Public outing is only good at the end of the game when there are only a few trees left, or when a scum can be caught by it. Stop talking abut the Vigilante. It's only making you look worse and look like you're slipping deeper into the hole you dug for yourself.

I never insinuated that you thought there was more than one. I just pointed out that there was likely to be more than one.

Pedit: unlikely

Would you clarify something for me Berty, you seem to have contradicted yourself in the two posts above concerning Hazel. In the first post you state that Hazel is looking like a confused newbie. Then in the very next post you state that you forgot to say that Hazel's fishing looked bad to you. Well which is it?

Also in the second post above you *mother* hazel by telling her to stop talking about the vigilante, how its only making her look worse and look like she is slipping deeper into a hole she dug for herself. Kind of you to tell her what to do. Very supportive of you, very buddy buddy of you.

And for the record, you contact me first on Day 1 fishing for info about who I suspected. When I didn't give you anything, you seemed worried about being the Day 1 lynch target. I only recently asked you about your miller claim, but it doesn't mean I trust you with who I really do and don't suspect.

[Hinckley]

I only recently asked you about your miller claim, but it doesn't mean I trust you with who I really do and don't suspect.

Why do you not want to discuss who you suspect with everyone? If you don't believe his claim, discussing suspicion with him in private might be a good way to suss him out. What did you glean from asking him about his claim?

[Dragonfire]

Would you clarify something for me Berty, you seem to have contradicted yourself in the two posts above concerning Hazel. In the first post you state that Hazel is looking like a confused newbie. Then in the very next post you state that you forgot to say that Hazel's fishing looked bad to you. Well which is it?

Also in the second post above you *mother* hazel by telling her to stop talking about the vigilante, how its only making her look worse and look like she is slipping deeper into a hole she dug for herself. Kind of you to tell her what to do. Very supportive of you, very buddy buddy of you.

And for the record, you contact me first on Day 1 fishing for info about who I suspected. When I didn't give you anything, you seemed worried about being the Day 1 lynch target. I only recently asked you about your miller claim, but it doesn't mean I trust you with who I really do and don't suspect.

She's a confused newbie and her "fishing" looks bad. Both are true. Confused newbie doesn't necessarily mean town.

"Fishing for info"? I asked you who you suspected.

[Walter Kovacs]

Alden Alder speaks thusly:

"Voting is now open.

With 22 players, 12 votes are required to lynch. You have 48 Hours till the end of Day 2."

[badboytje88]

What's wrong with your text editor ?

No idea... typed it in word first to avoid a lot of spelling mistakes. Must have messed up the format or something.

[JackJonespaw]

And for the record, you contact me first on Day 1 fishing for info about who I suspected. When I didn't give you anything, you seemed worried about being the Day 1 lynch target. I only recently asked you about your miller claim, but it doesn't mean I trust you with who I really do and don't suspect.

What the hell? In one sentence, you just completely removed the entire point of PMs - to actually discuss who you suspect. Are you afraid to share you ideas with others because you are afraid you might seem scummy? I don't have anything against those who don't PM, but to outright refuse when someone seeks you out, that move in itself seems like you're hiding something.

Not to mention the misuse of the word 'fishing', but Berty covered that.

[jluck]

Would you clarify something for me Berty, you seem to have contradicted yourself in the two posts above concerning Hazel. In the first post you state that Hazel is looking like a confused newbie. Then in the very next post you state that you forgot to say that Hazel's fishing looked bad to you. Well which is it?

Also in the second post above you *mother* hazel by telling her to stop talking about the vigilante, how its only making her look worse and look like she is slipping deeper into a hole she dug for herself. Kind of you to tell her what to do. Very supportive of you, very buddy buddy of you.

And for the record, you contact me first on Day 1 fishing for info about who I suspected. When I didn't give you anything, you seemed worried about being the Day 1 lynch target. I only recently asked you about your miller claim, but it doesn't mean I trust you with who I really do and don't suspect.

Poor Catarina, every time she throws suspicion on others, it ends up coming right back at her. Reminds me of what my momma always said, "when you point the finger at others, you always have 3 pointing back at yourself" (try it, you'll see what I mean )

At this point, I have 2 candidates to offer:

1) Catarina, for all the reasons I said yesterday

2) Bobby Beach, for contributing nothing, saying little, and looking pretty scum the whole time.

[jimmynick]

I've received a PM from Catarina which makes it clear that she's still only suspecting those who suspect/argue with her. Ping.

Would you clarify something for me Berty, you seem to have contradicted yourself in the two posts above concerning Hazel. In the first post you state that Hazel is looking like a confused newbie. Then in the very next post you state that you forgot to say that Hazel's fishing looked bad to you. Well which is it?

Also in the second post above you *mother* hazel by telling her to stop talking about the vigilante, how its only making her look worse and look like she is slipping deeper into a hole she dug for herself. Kind of you to tell her what to do. Very supportive of you, very buddy buddy of you.

And for the record, you contact me first on Day 1 fishing for info about who I suspected. When I didn't give you anything, you seemed worried about being the Day 1 lynch target. I only recently asked you about your miller claim, but it doesn't mean I trust you with who I really do and don't suspect.

And Catarina starts up like clockwork!

[Lady K]

And Catarina starts up like clockwork!

Would you rather I not play at all and sit by quietly doing nothing? Read what I wrote. I asked Berty why he *mothered* Hazel and gave advice telling her to stop talking about the vigilante because it was making her (Hazel) look worse and she was slipping into a hole she (Hazel) dug herself.

Doesn't this strike anyone else as defending/supporting someone who has not been cleared as an oak? It sounds like he is telling her to shut up before she makes it worse.

[Hinckley]

Vote: Sammy Sycamore (Fugazi)

Why would the Maples janitor an Oak on Night One? I was concerned about my private communication with Sammy Sycamore. It seemed like he was subtly trying to undermine my confidence in the Alastair vote. If Alastair is Scum, it would definitely scoot Sammy over into the Scum column in my view.

I am assuming that the Maples have limited Janitor capabilities. Otherwise, it would mess with the game mechanics. Or we won't see results until we kill the janitor which would suck. But he's not a stump. I wonder if all Townies come back as Stumps but all Scum die. This is hurting my brain at the moment.

SNIP

OK, if the Maples have limited janitor-shots, I would imagine Alastair was Scum. Maybe they just want to keep us confused for as long as possible. That's a possibility. But I can't imagine why they would use a janitor shot, if it was limited, this early unless it was a big strategic advantage.

After looking at their posts from yesterday, neither one did very much of anything. Lauren rallied a lynch of Alastair. I think that is literally his only contribution outside of telling Buck to vote. And Buck made like 4 posts. If the vig did kill, I would assume they killed Buck and the Scum killed Lauren...for rallying people to lynch Alastair...who was Scum...then they janitored him. I see no other reason to kill Lauren. Unless the vig or a serial killer killed Lauren and the Scum were blocked or their target protected. I'm doing that speculate about every possibility of kill thing. Lauren would even make more sense as a neutral kill because he wasn't likely to be watched or protected. And maybe Buck was killed by a vigilante who prefers to weed out the low posters. Or there's a serial killer taking out low posters. Or Buck or Lauren said something to Scum in private that made them the kill target. Or something to the vig in private that made them think they were Scum I always yell at people for doing this...

My point is, Chester, you seem to be more concerned about the vig. Do you know something we don't? Perhaps you are Scum and you know the Scum killed one of those two and you're trying to figure out if there's a neutral. That's what you sound like to me. Plus, after Day One, you're on my Scum list.

Why don't you get on that for us? A little eager to go with one solution, huh? Trying to force us to find leads that aren't true because you and your Maple buddies janitored an Oak?

And don't forget, I said Sammy was trying to undermine my confidence in the Alastair vote in private. If Alastair is Scum, doesn't that make Sammy highly suspicious, Catarina? Catarina is out new Oak expert. She's so anti-Maple.

Yet, you clearly understood the result. Maybe your Scum buddies janitored the Town Alastair because you went too far to try to accuse him and his alignment reveal would've incriminated you too much! Everyone said it would be very interesting to see what he flipped considering how hard you went after him. It's really convenient that it tells us nothing about you now, isn't it?

Bold added for emphasis ^

That's quite a leap of logic there. You're assuming that Alastair is Maple, you're making me appear as trying to influence your vote, and you're linking the two inappropriately. Yes, I discussed Alastair with you after you asked for my opinion, and I told you the same thing I said in thread for everyone to hear: I wasn't convinced that he was scum. That's why I kept my vote on Bruce. Where's the subtlety in this?

Why didn't the scum kill Bruce then, he's the one who started the Alasdair bandwagon?

Make up your mind! You're the one heavily pushing for one theory (Alasdair is scum) then you blame others for not looking at alternatives?

By the way, this is what I read about the Janitor role: "Most of the time, Janitors are scum, so the people whose flips are obscured are usually Town." Not sure how accurate this is, but hey, let's keep our options open shall we.

Again bold added for emphasis above and this last line seems to me like Sammy is the one trying to influence people about what to think about Alastair's alignment.

No, I think you might be a Maple because you pushed very hard for one theory that is probably false in order to confuse the Oaks. Eventually you considered the other option half-hardheartedly when it was convenient to you (accusing another tree in the process) yet still toying the idea that I was scum therefore Alasdair too. That's what scum do all the time after janitoring: spreading confusion.

Stick to what? I came in the picture after you spent many posts implying that Alasdair is scum, without really considering the alternative. Since it's not a foregone conclusion, I accused you of trying to impose your view.

It would make me look bad in Simon's mind if Alasdair was Maple.

I've posted most of the quotes that make me suspect Sammy. Again, you can click the arrow next to our names to see the quotes in context. Sammy's continued insistence that I tried to get everyone to believe Alasdair was Maple is what makes me even more suspicious of him than I was yesterday. He has tunnel vision on this issue and he takes what I say out of context or hand picks what he responds to. Insisting one thing when it's clear, at least to me, that it's not true makes me wonder why he's trying so hard to heap suspicion on me. I have the advantage of knowing I'm Town, so having someone misconstrue my words this way makes it clear to me they are Scum. Check the quotes I've posted. You can see all of mine, which postulate Alasdair's alignment going either way, were posted before all of Sammy's. He keeps insisting I was pushing very hard that Alasdair was Scum when I'm clearly, at least in my eyes, looking at all options. Not sure why a Townie would do this? If Sammy isn't Scum, then I propose he take a lesson in reading things more thoroughly. In the second to last quote he finals admits he sees I was considering other options but he says "half-heartedly" in order to conveniently accuse Catarina. What? I was half-heartedly accusing Catarina? I suspect her with all of my heart, damn it! Anyway, I find his behavior very strange.

I still am not a big fan of Larry Larch or Catarina, either. I was suspecting Adelaide as well, but I feel less confident in that suspicion now. I can understand, after looking over the posts again, how what I said sounded odd. I'm not saying she's an Oak, but I'm less suspicious after looking everything over.

In other news, through some behind-the-scenes claims, I can confidently say that Bruce is verified to be an Oak. That's good, huh? I'm sure this will get mixed reviews... William?

[Tamamono]

In other news, through some behind-the-scenes claims, I can confidently say that Bruce is verified to be an Oak. That's good, huh? I'm sure this will get mixed reviews... William?

Ha! Take that, Nash.

[jimmynick]

Would you rather I not play at all and sit by quietly doing nothing? Read what I wrote. I asked Berty why he *mothered* Hazel and gave advice telling her to stop talking about the vigilante because it was making her (Hazel) look worse and she was slipping into a hole she (Hazel) dug herself.

Doesn't this strike anyone else as defending/supporting someone who has not been cleared as an oak? It sounds like he is telling her to shut up before she makes it worse.

I'd prefer you looked for scum to lynch rather than trying not to be lynched yourself. We can all see that Hazel is digging a huge hole, so it doesn't matter if anyone tells Hazel to stop digging.

Also, what's *up* with *these* writeboard-style *emphasis* markings?

Also, I'm glad to hear Bruce is verified.

[Hinckley]

Also, what's *up* with *these* writeboard-style *emphasis* markings?

I've seen this before and the accusation was wrong, but I still say nice catch. Has she ever done this before?

[jimmynick]

I don't know, and I know I for sure have done it in the past as a townie, so it's not concrete. But it's another little bit of evidence that points towards scum.

[Tamamono]

I've seen this before and the accusation was wrong, but I still say nice catch. Has she ever done this before?

She has never done it before.

[Lady K]

Why do you not want to discuss who you suspect with everyone? If you don't believe his claim, discussing suspicion with him in private might be a good way to suss him out. What did you glean from asking him about his claim?

When I brought up his claim he overlooked it in his reply to me. Seeing as his reason was to contact me early day one because we had gone to mafia school together, I used the opportunity to talk about Barry who also attended school with us. I mentioned I thought Barry was not playing his regular style because he accused me based on early fluff. Normally he is more thoughtful in his accusations. Berty disagrees with me and thinks Barry is genuinely oaky. We have differing opinions. What bothers me is how Berty translated that into who I'm accusing when I never actually said the words I accuse.

She's a confused newbie and her "fishing" looks bad. Both are true. Confused newbie doesn't necessarily mean town.

"Fishing for info"? I asked you who you suspected.

Early on Day 1 anyone would find that fishing for info. And you still didn't answer why you felt the need to give Hazel advice on shutting up about the vigilante.

What the hell? In one sentence, you just completely removed the entire point of PMs - to actually discuss who you suspect. Are you afraid to share you ideas with others because you are afraid you might seem scummy? I don't have anything against those who don't PM, but to outright refuse when someone seeks you out, that move in itself seems like you're hiding something.

Not to mention the misuse of the word 'fishing', but Berty covered that.

I'm not afraid to share ideas with anyone. In case you hadn't noticed I have been sharing my ideas in thread. And from my personal experience, only scum have ever contacted me that early on Day .

[Scubacarrot]

I'm sure this will get mixed reviews... William?

I think it's great. I do think the whole argument that seems to be going on today between you and Sycamore is very silly. Maybe I'm missing something, but Sycamore does not seem like scum to me, not more than you do at least. I'll get my thoughts together and vote in a few hours, sleep and stuff.

[Lady K]

I'd prefer you looked for scum to lynch rather than trying not to be lynched yourself. We can all see that Hazel is digging a huge hole, so it doesn't matter if anyone tells Hazel to stop digging.

Also, what's *up* with *these* writeboard-style *emphasis* markings?

Also, I'm glad to hear Bruce is verified.

Sorry if I used the wrong markings, but I was trying to emphasize the mothering part which is what Berty was doing for Hazel. And I am looking for maples, it just bothered me that Berty felt the need to give Hazel advice on what to not say to get deeper in the hole.

But if no one else is bothered by it then so be it.

And I too am glad Bruce was verified.

[jluck]

[snip]

In other news, through some behind-the-scenes claims, I can confidently say that Bruce is verified to be an Oak. That's good, huh? I'm sure this will get mixed reviews... William?

That's cool and all but forgive me if I don't rush to him and spill my heart...you know, just in case and all