Bley or Gray?

[gylman]

What's wrong with a bit of venting?

It's not like any baby seals were killed or global warming has been accelerated.... on the other hand, with all the hot air flying around this topic, maybe it has.

OK, time to shut off the topic in the name of our planet and its future survival!!

The other reason to bring this topic up now and then is that it makes it clear to TLC that colour changes have a huge effect on serious builders.

I suspect if they had known the impact of their gray colour change they might not have done it at the time, although obviously it won't go back now. I bet that at the time of the furor about gray, many execs at TLC shrugged and said, "whatever... they'll get over it". Or however you say that in Danish.

But we haven't, and perhaps the fact that we haven't "gotten over it" made it clear to TLC that future colour changes need to be considered extremely carefully, and avoided at all costs if possible. Fact is, the number one quality issue with TLC now is colour unreliability.

[Norro]

To add something new to this topic:

Given the recent change in molding procedure (dying as opposed to molding coloured plastic) and the terrible colour inconsistencies I wonder if this is not the real cause of the grey change? Were the old colours simply not suitable for the newer cheaper production methods?

God Bless,

Nathan

[gylman]

To add something new to this topic:

Given the recent change in molding procedure (dying as opposed to molding coloured plastic) and the terrible colour inconsistencies I wonder if this is not the real cause of the grey change? Were the old colours simply not suitable for the newer cheaper production methods?

God Bless,

Nathan

I believe that is exactly the case - I read something along those lines precisely. Doesn't mean it's true.... but sounds reasonable enough. I remember there was all this talk about a consistent palette of colours, but in the end it's all about the bottom line, no?

[Starwars4J]

To add something new to this topic:

Given the recent change in molding procedure (dying as opposed to molding coloured plastic) and the terrible colour inconsistencies I wonder if this is not the real cause of the grey change? Were the old colours simply not suitable for the newer cheaper production methods?

God Bless,

Nathan

Well the 'official' explanation wasn't so great for the company that they'd use it as an excuse to save face. Didn't they just put a bunch of bley, and a bunch of grey into piles on the floor and see which a baby crawled to, or rather see which attracted the attention of children more?

[Hinckley]

Well the 'official' explanation wasn't so great for the company that they'd use it as an excuse to save face. Didn't they just put a bunch of bley, and a bunch of grey into piles on the floor and see which a baby crawled to, or rather see which attracted the attention of children more?

No, they used a hermit crab...

[Shadows]

No, they used a hermit crab...

Just because he didn't get out much or have a sunny disposition, that's no reason to call him a hermit, or a crab. What was I saying again? *wacko*

[Siegfried]

Probably not, but I still love you! :'-)

Well that makes it alright then! *sweet*

Well the 'official' explanation wasn't so great for the company that they'd use it as an excuse to save face. Didn't they just put a bunch of bley, and a bunch of grey into piles on the floor and see which a baby crawled to, or rather see which attracted the attention of children more?

It's true. That is why the blue hasn't changed; 9/10 walruses prefer their buckets to be blue. It's a fact.

[Ras 74]

I agree with Yoda, TT and CM on this matter.

I say get over it. This is the way it is...

Until TLC REALLY changes the colours back, then I will start a topic like this every year,

and whinning of it like a baby over and over again... :-P X-D

[Starwars4J]

It's true. That is why the blue hasn't changed; 9/10 walruses prefer their buckets to be blue. It's a fact.

And all this time I thought you were a walrus...and now I find out you're a cat? Or are you just cat on your mother's side? Either way stop confusing me :'-(

[Siegfried]

And all this time I thought you were a walrus...and now I find out you're a cat? Or are you just cat on your mother's side? Either way stop confusing me :'-(

People often confuse me for a cat over my whiskers. Honestly, I am a walrus. I think my great great grandmother was a cat, but it isn't discused much. I think it was a bit of a scandal at the time.

[Kowakian Monkey-Lizard]

I prefer bley, but I do not like how LEGO changed the color, I wish the color had stayed the same. But I think bley is a better color.

KML

Edited July 30, 2007 by Kowakian Monkey-Lizard

[Motti]

I'll go first. I bought the first sets which came out in dark bley/light bley/reddish brown back in 2003 (I think), but honestly, I did not notice it until teh next year, I think, with the Sandcrawler. Here I was, happily modding my new set Sandcrawler, when I noticed that the old colour pieces did not match the new ones in the set. At first I dismissed it as an illusion of some sort, or possibly a defect on the old part, but never bothered to compare that to other old parts. The reality set in when I read an article about the colour change. I "slightly" panicked, and all of my new sets I compared to the old one. And they were different in colour. I was very upset with this change. I had a hard time distinguishing between the 2 at first, but evntually became used to differentiating between the 2. I didn't know why TLC would do this, though. They had done this would any notice! I was in almost a state of denial until I reached a point where I had more sets in new colours than old. I now accepted this change, and even still like the new colours much better, (I like bluer shades). Still, I wouldn't have wanted to changem if I had the choice. Now for your stories.

[CopMike]

I didn't know why TLC would do this, though. They had done this would any notice! I was in almost a state of denial until I reached a point where I had more sets in new colours than old. I now accepted this change, and even still like the new colours much better, (I like bluer shades). Still, I wouldn't have wanted to changem if I had the choice. Now for your stories.

Check this out for the official statement from TLG on the color change. I prefere the new colors in grey, old brown was great though.

CopMike

[brickzone]

I think the new grey was one of the factors that put me off Knights Kingdom. However, I didn't realise that was a factor until my AFOL days, starting about 2 years ago. I think it only became an issue for me when I bought old Castle sets off ebay, and had stray bley parts in them. I meticulously ensured these were expurged from the models.

I now have significant quantities of bley, dark bley, new brown, etc. and I'm perfectly happy to build with them. I'm not in fact entirely happy with old grey, old dark grey, etc. but I would have preferred if the new colours were maybe half-way between their current look and the old look. I think they over-compensated for the "dullness" of the old colours. Old grey and dark grey are far superior for many castle MoCs of course, but I think bley isn't too bad if you assume the castle is newly built with freshly cut stone. Old brown similarly looks more like worn wood, rather than freshly treated wood.

I *love* some new colours like navy, dark red, dark green, tan, sand green, dark tan, etc. Can't get enough of them!

[CP5670]

I didn't think much of the change at the time it was announced (which was 2004 by the way, not 2003). Most of my sets were vintage items coming off ebay in those days anyway, and I figured it would take a few years for the supply of gray on Bricklink to run out. Although I did end up skipping a lot of new sets over the next few years that I would have bought immediately otherwise.

However, I have become increasingly annoyed by the change as the years have gone by and my own supply of gray (and that of BL stores) has started to run out. I tend to not use much of either color at the moment, except in Technic models where I still have plenty of gray parts. I still don't have enough standard bricks in either the gray or blay to do a whole lot with them in System models, although this will probably change in the future as I accumulate more blay.

The actual colors don't really matter to me. It is the difference and lack of consistency that creates a problem.

The color change also effectively (and in practice as well) put an end to the Legends concept, as any re-released sets would have to be significantly different from the originals.

With the LEGO Company’s desire to keep their decades-long reputation for quality, we’re constantly working to improve things that almost all the time, consumers won’t even notice. I know a statement like this will open a can of worms.

I think they were actually quite right in that assessment. TLG did in fact announce the change on Lugnet just after production of the new pieces started, but if they had kept completely quiet, I would be willing to bet that most of the AFOL fanbase who complained would not have noticed at all. We have seen (unintentional, and maybe temporary) changes of a similar magnitude with some other colors more recently, and very few people have taken notice of that.

Edited January 19, 2009 by CP5670

[kill will]

Check this out for the official statement from TLG on the color change. I prefere the new colors in grey, old brown was great though.

CopMike

Totally agree. In my mind, the newer greys are like metal, and the old look more like stone, which is better for castles. I prefer old brown as it just seems browner.

Just my opinion,

[Derek]

I had gotten a few sets here and there before 2003, but I really got into LEGO in around 2005. I really like the new colors better than the old ones, they seem so clean and cool. The old greys always seemed like they were dirty to me.

[kill will]

*snip*

The old greys always seemed like they were dirty to me.

Yeah, and they seemed to yellow much easier.

[BrickheadProductions]

I really like the new colours, although this makes it difficult to use older parts when building sets for my brickfilms.

Edited January 19, 2009 by BrickheadProductions

[Norro]

I think they were actually quite right in that assessment. TLG did in fact announce the change on Lugnet just after production of the new pieces started, but if they had kept completely quiet, I would be willing to bet that most of the AFOL fanbase who complained would not have noticed at all.

Actually I remember the famous "is this a lemon?" thread starting long before TLC worked up the nerve to "announce" the change on Lugnet. They actually made a similar point to yours in their announcement "assuming... that the change would go fairly unnoticed"...

Yes I'm still annoyed. And in my opinion the prices on BL represent more than just diminishing supply, they represent preference...

God Bless,

Nathan

[Dennimator]

I like the new colours better. The old grey ones (both shades) lokk, as darthperson said, a bit dirty. However, if you are going to build an ´old´ car, it´s great to blend the pieces to make the car really look old and a little bit rusty. (Blay doesn´t look old at all.)

[CP5670]

Actually I remember the famous "is this a lemon?" thread starting long before TLC worked up the nerve to "announce" the change on Lugnet. They actually made a similar point to yours in their announcement "assuming... that the change would go fairly unnoticed"...

Sure, there were people who noticed it anyway and posted about it, but I highly doubt that the majority would have cared so much if TLG had kept quiet about it. The reason I say this is that the same thing happened again at the beginning of 2007 with several other colors. Now this was unintentional and is still likely to be a temporary glitch (temporary meaning 2+ years ), but the difference is stark enough to be obvious to anyone who can genuinely tell the difference between gray and blay. However, it is rarely mentioned in the AFOL communities. There was a long thread on the Bricklink forum about it when the first such pieces came out, and people occasionally notice it on EB and wonder what is going on, but it has been nothing like the uproar we saw with the grays.

Going back to the gray topic, I would be interested to know if there are any particularly high quality clone brands that still use the old gray. One called Oxford has been brought up on EB as a good quality one. That may be an option to consider for MOC builders when the grays finally do run out on Bricklink.

[Svelte]

Since light bley and dark bley are relatively new colours, I wonder if anyone knows how much they will yellow in comparison to the old greys? It doesn't seem like long enough for anyone to judge how the colours will fare with age and UV exposure.

Has anyone left a bunch of bricks in the bright bright sunshine for 6 months to find out?

[Fluyt]

The colour-change happened when I was in my darkage, but afterwards when I found out they changed the colours, I was shocked.

I passed up on a lot of sets I would have bought otherwise (and still do now, especially when there is a fair amount of bley or frown in a set).

The colour change basically let me stop with castle building, since I dont want to build one in bley (or black). I then changed to pirates since it didn't require as much grey (I don't have huge quantities of grey), brown for ships, even though I don't have much brown, is not such a problem, since the hulls are allready made in brown.

I do like some "new" colours like darkred, lime, darktan etc., but those go together well with older colours and they didn't replace any colours.

But even to this day, I think I don't even purchase half the sets that I would have if nothing had changed.

[Deepwoods]

...

Has anyone left a bunch of bricks in the bright bright sunshine for 6 months to find out?

We have long term testing underway still... (over 8 months now)

Thus far from our testes there has been NO obviously decernable colour change affect on any of the new dbg, lbg, rb, & white (2x4, 1x4 sample bricks & plates of each) (old bricks of representitive colours are also taking part in the same test)

Our test are pretty basic

- control subject - unopened boxes of sample set containing each new part to be opened for final comparison in 2 years.

(stored in downtown office building to replicate the affects of retail storage)

- one each of each sample element left on window sill on each side of the house (NEWS) for each level of exposure

(standard baseline room temp of 22C, windows are non argon & non UV protected circa 1979 double sliders)

- one each of each sample element left outside (wired to firm wooden surface in middle of lawn)

(Canadian seasonal changes from -40 wcf to +35C, snow coverage of 3-4 months)

- one each of each sample element left under hydroponic "Day Glow" plant starter lights (24/7), variable humidity

- one each of each sample element left under UV philatelic lamp (on a timer for 2 hours every 24 period)

the following samples are stored on the washing machine & are thus agitated once a week & have average lighting coditions of a suburban basement)

- one each of each sample element left in mild solution of soapy water (room temp)

- one each of each sample element left in mild solution of 20% vinegar/80% water (room temp)

- one each of each sample element left in "Johnson & Jonhson" contact lens saline solution (room temp)

the 2x4 brick in Reddish Brown on the Southern exposure window sill and in the vinegar solution may have the slightest hint of colour lightening when a generic sample is held next to it but there's some disagreement between my nephew's 8 year old eyes and my 40+ year old eyes... I just don't see it :-)

The old dark grey 1x4 brick and 2x4 plate, old light grey 2x4 & 1x4 bricks in the South facing window have minor but obvious signs of the begining of yellowing (I expected this in the white as well but it's not visible yet) which kinda clouds my previous theroy against the afects of lighting causing the yellowing.

It's waay to early for conclusions but local afols suspect that the newer colours (or perhaps ABS material) are more stable than the previous ones - but the old bricks have 12-15 years on them that I wasn't able to find a suitable replication for.

BTW each element is untouched even for cleaning (thus dust on the north window bricks and the outdoor bricks is a variable but a ligitimate sample for display models... in our opinion)

We'll report back in April...