Walter Kovacs Posted February 10, 2015 Author Posted February 10, 2015 Voting Update: Larry Larch (TheLazyChicken) - 8 (Zepher, Hinckley, Tamamono, Bob, Goliath, Lego Spy, Calanon, fhomess) Bobby Beech (Lord Duvors) - 4 (Scaevola, TinyPiesRUs, Scubacarrot, jluck) Barry Cherry (jluck) - 1 (jamesn) Peter Cedar (badboytje88) - 1 (TheLazyChicken) There are 8 Hours, 30 Minutes left in Day 3. It takes 10 Votes to lynch.
badboytje88 Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 I'm going to join in on this vote because I think at this point it is the best lead we got. Vote: Larry Larch (TheLazyChicken)
jluck Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 I had a thought, so I went through the first two days (an easy read at nearly 40 pages). Here's some things that stuck out to me: That's right: in the past two days, Berry Cherry made a comment about either of today's lynch candidates (Bobby in one corner and Larry in the other) exactly once. To provide some friendly advice. While he was all over Alastair and Catarina, not a peep about our other two favourite whipping-boys Bobby and Larry. He spent most of his remaining time promoting the idea of codes, which so far have only resulted in Daveing 9 claimed vanillas. And, now, Berry has come in with a pile of things from Days One and Two that he finds interesting, and surprise! they're all things that Bobby said. Where were you when Bobby said those things? On a scumboard? Did you have to come in and completely neglect the arguments against Larry because you needed to balance the votes to save his scummy hide bark? Scummy, scummy you, Berry Cherry. Fair enough. Since this is a logical argument (not just megablock slinging) I'll address it. To your first point, I've not gone back, but it's highly likely you're correct that I only address them once. In fact, that's likely a lot more than l addressed most folks. In a game of 25, on day 1 and 2, I simply am not going to speak with everyone. (You also took a swipe at the codes, but that's been talked through enough). After seeming the two options today, I simply reviewed everything they said, and found Bobby more suspicious. At the time Bobby made some of those statements, they were acknowledged by many of you. However, I was more suspicious of the body of work, something that can only be seen over time. Lasty, you state I'm covering for Larry by attacking Bobby. If we get to the end of the day and need my vote...just call. I'm a team player. (Snip) I'm not opposed to voting for Barry. I know Catarina found it odd that Barry was going after her for behaviour she always shows, but I'm not familiar enough with their history to have found it unusual. Doesn't your argument rely on Larry being scum anyway though? If Larry turns up scum I know I'll pay for my vote, I just voted for who I felt was scum. That's the job of all of us, vote who we think is suspicious.
Hinckley Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 BS because of your reasons, justified because of Catarina not being very helpful at all. Also I like saying I told you so. My megablocks doesn't need covering. Justified enough that it wasn't worthy of me trying to take a stand against it. That sounds very arrogant. I like it. That's not what you said. You said the lynch itself was BS. And this is all you have to say to all of the things I said about you. I feel Oak William would be more belligerent and arrogant, metagaming that may be... Scum.
MagPiesRUs Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Unvote: Bobby Beech (Lord Duvors) Vote: Larry Larch (TheLazyChicken)
jimmynick Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 The vote total crept up overnight, but I'm still confident that Larry is scum and I want to hammer him a little bit more: Unvote: Barry Cherry (jluck) Vote: Larry Larch (TheLazyChicken)
Walter Kovacs Posted February 10, 2015 Author Posted February 10, 2015 Voting Update: Larry Larch (TheLazyChicken) - 11 (Zepher, Hinckley, Tamamono, Bob, Goliath, Lego Spy, Calanon, fhomess, badboytje88, TinyPiesRUs, jamesn) Bobby Beech (Lord Duvors) - 4 (Scaevola, TinyPiesRUs, Scubacarrot, jluck) Peter Cedar (badboytje88) - 1 (TheLazyChicken) There are 6 Hours, 45 Minutes left in Day 3. It takes 10 Votes to lynch.
Bob Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 The halt in conversation here is telling. Indeed it is. I think I'm going to be looking at a few others that were up for the vote today, particularly Bobby and Peter. Bobby's apathy in this game is bothering me, as is Peter's inactivity and propensity to jump onto a bandwagon. Additionally, he provides fluff and is little to no help to us all. Both appear scummy to me, but for different reasons. I'll have to think more about it.
Scubacarrot Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 That's not what you said. You said the lynch itself was BS. And this is all you have to say to all of the things I said about you. I feel Oak William would be more belligerent and arrogant, metagaming that may be... Scum. I said what I said and I stand by it. You're making stuff up again, Simon. There is no me contradicting myself. If you read what I actually said, it adds up, don't you worry. You trying to discredit me however, is super suspicious. What, did I strike a mark?
jimmynick Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Fair enough. Since this is a logical argument (not just megablock slinging) I'll address it. To your first point, I've not gone back, but it's highly likely you're correct that I only address them once. In fact, that's likely a lot more than l addressed most folks. In a game of 25, on day 1 and 2, I simply am not going to speak with everyone. Did I say everyone should speak with everyone? I don't think I've talked about people like Lassie, Peter or Sue so far. And that's fine. But there was plenty of attention being paid to both Bobby and Larry, and what concerns me is that you haven't picked up on that until today, when you have to throw your vote in in a way that looks townie (but you didn't manage that either). (You also took a swipe at the codes, but that's been talked through enough). I'm not attacking you for supporting the codes, I'm saying that's where you put your attention. What does everyone else think of Barry? I see both Sue Sumac and Berty Birch in the forest right now. Thoughts?
Hinckley Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 I said what I said and I stand by it. You're making stuff up again, Simon. There is no me contradicting myself. If you read what I actually said, it adds up, don't you worry. You trying to discredit me however, is super suspicious. What, did I strike a mark? You, Sammy and Nash trying to discredit me for two days is suspicious. You have all three been heavily fishing about the investigator, Sammy going as far as to fish, in-thread, if I'm the investigator. What Townies would do what you three are doing? And you blatantly contradicted yourself for everyone to see. You can't edit it. You agree with Catrina's lynch when it's convenient for you, but then say you said it was BS the whole time, trying to discredit me. Desperately trying to undermine the formation of a Town block and encouraging people not to trust me, when I'm not even asking for claims myself, is super Scummy. Lying, fishing, misrepresenting things I say: Scum. Period.
Dragonfire Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Bring on the walls o' text! This ^ is fishing, Berty. Yeah, it does look like that. It certainly is suspicious how slowly it's taken for a Larry bandwagon to get started. I get the feeling the maples know that Bobby is an easy lynch, and are waiting to see if the votes on him gain enough traction. Peter's vote has struck me as particularly odd. He has no opinion on Larry or Bobby, but Bobby a "friendly poke" anyway, pushing the votes against him to 3 (with Larry at 6)? I'm starting to agree with this. I also think some more discussion around our Miller claim is appropriate. I don't trust it one bit. I went to the effort to try to understand how things came about and it all struck me as odd. Today, I hear that Berty went fishing for the identity of the Bomb claim: This aspect was new to me and it doesn't sit with the miller claim. Berty had already decided that Simon was worth trusting enough to share his miller role with. The miller is not an active role and therefore has no need to know who the bomb is. The only reason a miller could care about a bomb is to share it with someone else. There isn't any sort of grand scheming that the miller needs to do that requires someone safe to talk to "without worry too much if they were scum or not". It's been pointed out before, but the way the miller claim went down is the least townie way to respond. It should either be claimed immediately or not until a false claim by scum is made in an effort to get out of investigation. You told me that Simon suggested you publicly claim at that point, but he didn't mention that when I asked him about it. Simon, is he lying about this? 1) You're entitled to your own opinion. Odd that you post this just after Simon says he's worried about me. 2) That is true, and I believe I've already given my reasons for it. 3) How many times do I have to say this? I DID NOT KNOW HOW TO HANDLE THE ROLE AND I DIDN'T THINK TO LOOK IT UP. I ONLY REALISED THAT IT WAS A SMART MOVE AT THE END OF THE DAY. Honestly.... 4) He did, and he'll confirm that he did. SNIP Let me be clear...again...Berty came to me and wanted to claim his role. I said he shouldn't claim to anyone who isn't verified and he said something like you have to take a leap of faith in Mafia sometimes. So then he said Miller. I haven't been in a game with a Miller in a long time. I know it's a smart claim for a Scum to make. And a proactive Scum team has a better chance of surviving scrutiny than a reactive one. Either way, I had just had a conversation with Jack Pine about how he didn't expect there to be a Miller since there had been no claim. Then I asked why a Miller would claim and he told me that's how the Miller should be played. I also told Berty he might be at risk of being killed by the vig since some people were suspicious of him and there was a vote or two. He said he was more worried about the investigator...because he's the Miller. He said he thought I might be in touch with the investigator and might be able to tell them not to waste a night on him since he knew he would come up Maple anyway. So, I told him to claim because I didn't know the investigator on Day One and wouldn't have shared it with him anyway and had just learned from Jack that that is what a Miller is supposedly supposed to do. Berty said he was a noob and wasn't sure how to play it. Then, he said he wanted to know the bomb so he could talk to another Townie about the game. To be honest, I'm dubious of the Miller claim, the bomb claim and what William claimed. They're all good roles for Scum to pretend to have and all three went claiming them to people early in the game. I am trying to get homework done and it's past my bedtime, but I'll try to find the time of these claims before I head to sleep. 1) Are you referring to me or Jack? 2) I can verify that all this is true. Unvote: Bobby Beech (Lord Duvors) As I said before it was a just a poke. I do not know what to think of you just yet but I do know I wan't to stop this from getting turned into a big bandwagon against you. Well there have been some connections between both of them. If I had to choose which one looks more scummy to me at this point I'd have to go with Larry. Also I have to admit that the case against him is the stronger one. Though Bobby might be on the scum as well. It is striking how Larry defended someone on day 1. Someone he didn't know. Or maybe they met before. Somewhere on a writeboard titled scum. I'm going to join in on this vote because I think at this point it is the best lead we got. Vote: Larry Larch (TheLazyChicken)
Hinckley Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 3) How many times do I have to say this? Many. Trust me. I've been grilled about it many times as well. Lassie is thorough. 1) Are you referring to me or Jack? Jack. What does everyone else think of Barry? I see both Sue Sumac and Berty Birch in the forest right now. Thoughts? I haven't felt great about him or his involvement in the weird bickering with Catarina and Alastair on Day One. He hasn't done anything to instill confidence. I will look over all his posts when I get the time. I think you may be onto something with your read of him. He hasn't brought up many suspicions but he did go out of his way to tell me to stop bringing up suspicions. That could be similar to the tactic I've noticed from the Three Scum Stooges, Nash, William and Sammy. Trying to encourage people not to listen to me. I made it about myself again. I think your read is worth looking into.
Dragonfire Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Oops, accidentally quoted Peter twice. I find this behaviour rather scummy. First, Peter "friendly poke votes" Bobby, in the middle of Larry's wagon when the lynch could go either way. Then, when people call him out, he immediately unvotes... Unvote: Bobby Beech (Lord Duvors) As I said before it was a just a poke. I do not know what to think of you just yet but I do know I wan't to stop this from getting turned into a big bandwagon against you. ...and says he doesn't want a bandwagon on Bobby. Just in context, Bobby hasn't replied to the poke or spoken up; he only posted twice to call himself useless. Again trying to look towny, he says this... Well there have been some connections between both of them. If I had to choose which one looks more scummy to me at this point I'd have to go with Larry. Also I have to admit that the case against him is the stronger one. Though Bobby might be on the scum as well. It is striking how Larry defended someone on day 1. Someone he didn't know. Or maybe they met before. Somewhere on a writeboard titled scum. ...and then sets the scene for tomorrow, so that if Larry flips scum he can lead a lynch on Bobby. NOTE: This theory relies on Larry being scum and Bobby being town. What does everyone else think of Barry? I see both Sue Sumac and Berty Birch in the forest right now. Thoughts? He was my strongest townread until the middle of today. He's looking decidedly scummier now, especially if Larry is a Maple. I've got to vote, and I don't like the way certain people piled votes on Bobby and then switched to Larry. Although Bobby's unhelpful attitude is both scummy and detrimental to town, I think Larry is a likelier scum because of the voting patterns and his lynch will tell us more about other players. Therefore I'll Vote: Larry Larch (TheLazyChicken)
fhomess Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 What does everyone else think of Barry? I see both Sue Sumac and Berty Birch in the forest right now. Thoughts? I'll say that I had found Barry to be rather Oaky until the comment you made. Quite a bit more Oaky than you, to be honest, as I felt like you had been rather middle of the road with few accusations of note. I would say that it's highly likely that at least one of the people who've been pushing the codes is a maple and Barry has certainly been in the middle of it. If we're to pick one, I'm more inclined to think it's Jack since Jack has been more middle of the road (a bit like you were) with fewer concrete accusations. However, if Larry turns up maple then I agree Barry shoots up the list of next suspects. 1) You're entitled to your own opinion. Odd that you post this just after Simon says he's worried about me. I've been discussing the situation with Simon for some time as he's attested. I don't trust the claim. I don't think I'll trust it completely until either you and/or all the maples are gone. The reason I brought it up publicly again was the new statement that you wanted to know the Bomb's identity. I hadn't heard that till today and I don't see why a miller needs a friend so badly, particularly after you had made a friend in Simon. Simon can talk anyone's ear off!
mostlytechnic Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 My apologies, I've had some things outside the forest demanding my attention and I need to get back to them, so this will be short and not as detailed as I'd like. First, I'll also vouch for my portion of the miller events as told by Simon, with one caveat. I brought up miller in PM on day 1 simply as part of a list of potential crazy possibilities, not as a specifically miller conversation. In that context, I said I doubted a miller since one hadn't been claimed right away (and it was far enough into the day that everyone had talked). I also think Waldorf made a solid argument against Barry. I don't see the whole vote train changing tracks to lynch Barry today however, with so little time left. Additionally, I don't think Bobby is scum. His conversations today are too all over the place, sometimes giving up, etc. I can't see a scum doing that. They'd have help from other scum to guide responses to make more sense. So basically, I think he's too crazy to be scum But since there's already an abundance of votes on Larry, I'm ok with "wasting" mine on Barry. So: Vote: Barry Cherry (jluck) I'll say that I had found Barry to be rather Oaky until the comment you made. Quite a bit more Oaky than you, to be honest, as I felt like you had been rather middle of the road with few accusations of note. I would say that it's highly likely that at least one of the people who've been pushing the codes is a maple and Barry has certainly been in the middle of it. If we're to pick one, I'm more inclined to think it's Jack since Jack has been more middle of the road (a bit like you were) with fewer concrete accusations. However, if Larry turns up maple then I agree Barry shoots up the list of next suspects. How on earth is pushing the codes scummy? They're the best thing the town could have going! Granted, they've failed miserably since people haven't participated and info has leaked, but IF DONE RIGHT THEY COULD HAVE WON THE GAME TODAY (well, it would have taken days to catch the scum, but the fate of the maples would have been sealed at least). So I stand by my assertion that the codes were NOT a distraction. The people fighting them were the distraction.
Hinckley Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 First, I'll also vouch for my portion of the miller events as told by Simon, with one caveat. I brought up miller in PM on day 1 simply as part of a list of potential crazy possibilities, not as a specifically miller conversation. In that context, I said I doubted a miller since one hadn't been claimed right away (and it was far enough into the day that everyone had talked). I concur. I believe I said earlier that it came up in context of the conversation. It wasn't a random message about how to play Miller. I think that might've pinged me.
Dragonfire Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 snip Additionally, I don't think Bobby is scum. His conversations today are too all over the place, sometimes giving up, etc. I can't see a scum doing that. They'd have help from other scum to guide responses to make more sense. So basically, I think he's too crazy to be scum Read Cosplay Party. How on earth is pushing the codes scummy? They're the best thing the town could have going! Granted, they've failed miserably since people haven't participated and info has leaked, but IF DONE RIGHT THEY COULD HAVE WON THE GAME TODAY (well, it would have taken days to catch the scum, but the fate of the maples would have been sealed at least). So I stand by my assertion that the codes were NOT a distraction. The people fighting them were the distraction. I agree, but it does make sense that some Maples would try to appear pro-Town by pushing the codes.Only Sammy and Bobby left to vote...
Yzalirk Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Wait, where is the metagaming? Let me go get it, hold on. As for Larry, I find him suspicious but not unlike some other players who have died and flipped Oak. I'm concerned that scum are taking advantage of this. In all fairness, Bobby seems scummier but I am hesitant to vote for him for these reasons. Larry was playing like this as town in Excalibur TNG; Bobby was playing like this as scum in Cosplay. This has some meta-gaming, does it not?
Scubacarrot Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 You, Sammy and Nash trying to discredit me for two days is suspicious. You have all three been heavily fishing about the investigator, Sammy going as far as to fish, in-thread, if I'm the investigator. What Townies would do what you three are doing? And you blatantly contradicted yourself for everyone to see. You can't edit it. You agree with Catrina's lynch when it's convenient for you, but then say you said it was BS the whole time, trying to discredit me. Desperately trying to undermine the formation of a Town block and encouraging people not to trust me, when I'm not even asking for claims myself, is super Scummy. Lying, fishing, misrepresenting things I say: Scum. Period. There is no contradiction. You're seeing things that are not there. That much I can overlook, but... I have not been fishing for anything, least of all the investigator. Where have I been discrediting you yesterday? Liar. BLATANT liar. Town doesn't lie. So you are scum. Be sure to keep up the towniest of the town bullcrap, it's telling and stale. Unvote Bobby Beech (Lord Duvors) Vote: Simon Persimmon (Hinckley) I encourage everyone to think very critically upon Simon and Bruce's 'town block'. I had doubts, but with this lying I can't see them as town.
Fugazi Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 Sorry about my absence during the later part of this day, there were some unforeseen complications out of this forest that I had to deal with. After reading the last few pages, I'm surprised at how little Larry fought for his life... unless I missed something? Would a Maple have fought more? It's difficult to conclude. In any case, the vote switching will be informative if Larry turns out to be scum. As it is, my vote won't change anything to the day's conclusion, but I do want to quote a few tress whose ideas I share. Also, there doesn't need to be a Miller, so even without a counterclaim, he could still be lying. It's a good role for a Scum to claim. As pointed out, he did claim it late in the day after he aroused some suspicion. He did also come to me asking for the identity of the bomb claimant. I admit this ping has been a slow burn. He asked me this early on Day Two. The more I consider everyone, the more suspicion Berty seems. I also think some more discussion around our Miller claim is appropriate. I don't trust it one bit. I went to the effort to try to understand how things came about and it all struck me as odd. Today, I hear that Berty went fishing for the identity of the Bomb claim: This aspect was new to me and it doesn't sit with the miller claim. Berty had already decided that Simon was worth trusting enough to share his miller role with. The miller is not an active role and therefore has no need to know who the bomb is. The only reason a miller could care about a bomb is to share it with someone else. There isn't any sort of grand scheming that the miller needs to do that requires someone safe to talk to "without worry too much if they were scum or not". Let me be clear...again...Berty came to me and wanted to claim his role. I said he shouldn't claim to anyone who isn't verified and he said something like you have to take a leap of faith in Mafia sometimes. So then he said Miller. I haven't been in a game with a Miller in a long time. I know it's a smart claim for a Scum to make. And a proactive Scum team has a better chance of surviving scrutiny than a reactive one. Either way, I had just had a conversation with Jack Pine about how he didn't expect there to be a Miller since there had been no claim. Then I asked why a Miller would claim and he told me that's how the Miller should be played. I also told Berty he might be at risk of being killed by the vig since some people were suspicious of him and there was a vote or two. He said he was more worried about the investigator...because he's the Miller. He said he thought I might be in touch with the investigator and might be able to tell them not to waste a night on him since he knew he would come up Maple anyway. So, I told him to claim because I didn't know the investigator on Day One and wouldn't have shared it with him anyway and had just learned from Jack that that is what a Miller is supposedly supposed to do. Berty said he was a noob and wasn't sure how to play it. Then, he said he wanted to know the bomb so he could talk to another Townie about the game. To be honest, I'm dubious of the Miller claim, the bomb claim and what William claimed. They're all good roles for Scum to pretend to have and all three went claiming them to people early in the game. I am trying to get homework done and it's past my bedtime, but I'll try to find the time of these claims before I head to sleep. I've been discussing the situation with Simon for some time as he's attested. I don't trust the claim. I don't think I'll trust it completely until either you and/or all the maples are gone. The reason I brought it up publicly again was the new statement that you wanted to know the Bomb's identity. I hadn't heard that till today and I don't see why a miller needs a friend so badly, particularly after you had made a friend in Simon. Simon can talk anyone's ear off! Somehow I'm even more suspicious of the (need we say again, not very common) miller role now that we know that the miller idea was discussed privately before the claim. Not sure who these conversations were shared with, but it's possible that this inspired scum to use the role as a fake claim. Vote: Berty Birch (dragonfire) You, Sammy and Nash trying to discredit me for two days is suspicious. You have all three been heavily fishing about the investigator, Sammy going as far as to fish, in-thread, if I'm the investigator. I only explained why I gave you a break on Day 2, which was the possibility that you were actually the investigator. When Bruce (or was it you?) said that a third player investigated you, it voided my theory. Call it fishing if it pleases you.
Scubacarrot Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 If I die, and we luckily do manage to expose what I believe are the scummy Simon and his scumbuddy Bruce. Look at Hazel as well. Both Simon and Bruce have been subtly defending him/her/it.
Hinckley Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 There is no contradiction. You're seeing things that are not there. That much I can overlook, but... I have not been fishing for anything, least of all the investigator. Where have I been discrediting you yesterday? Liar. BLATANT liar. Town doesn't lie. So you are scum. Be sure to keep up the towniest of the town bullcrap, it's telling and stale. Two real-life days. not Mafia days. I haven't lied about anything. You tried to blame an Oak lynch on me like you had been trying to stop the Town from lynching her. Yes, William, you are Catrina's champion. You've been fishing for info all (game) day, trying to undermine me and Bruce, which is a 180 degree flip from you running to Bruce and claiming your role when I first announced he was a confirmed Oak. You changed your mind because I was confirmed last night? And why did you feel the need to tell so many people random info about your role? Why was that necessary? You have spent a lot of time today trying to undermine me and Bruce and yet you don't vote for one of us until the end of the day. Why did you spend so much time questioning us (really, fishing) if you were just going to vote for Bobby? It's suspicious that you reveal private info Bruce gave you, fish for investigator info all day, scrutinizing us like we're lying and then don't make a case for anybody else and just vote for Bobby. You get caught lying about your view of the Catarina lynch to try to discredit me and you try to avoid answering for it by throwing an OMGUS vote. Scum. If I die, and we luckily do manage to expose what I believe are the scummy Simon and his scumbuddy Bruce. Look at Hazel as well. Both Simon and Bruce have been subtly defending him/her/it. Where have I ever defended Hazel?
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