fhomess Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 I'd like to hear Hazel's wacked out theory, too. No, this is separate from the person who claimed bomb to me. It seems like Berty was alerting Bruce what Bobby was saying but Bruce will have to verify that. There's still a bomb claim alive among us. Berty asked me about the bomb the first time, but went to Bruce when Bobby claimed Bomb. It was Barry, not Bobby, right? Anyway... Barry's claim is almost as crazy as Simon's title. Can we get a little more detail about how Berty passed along the claim to Bruce? Did it come in the crazy format initially or was it elaborated upon over time?
Mencot Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 This is to the maples claiming to be vanilla oaks, you know who you are and we are coming for you:
fhomess Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 While we're at it... how is is possible for a bomb to just go off? If Barry was really telling a partial truth, what could possibly have set him off? I don't believe for a second he spontaneously combusted. There was an extra kill last night so something doesn't seem right.
Hinckley Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 No, this is separate from the person who claimed bomb to me. It seems like Berty was alerting Bruce what Barry was saying but Bruce will have to verify that. There's still a bomb claim alive among us. Berty asked me about the bomb the first time, but went to Bruce when Barry claimed Bomb. It was Barry, not Bobby, right? Ugh. Barry, Bobby, Berty, Bomb. I don't know. Yes, Barry. I fixed my quote above there. This is to the maples claiming to be vanilla oaks, you know who you are and we are coming for you: Are Penn & Teller intimidating? While we're at it... how is is possible for a bomb to just go off? If Barry was really telling a partial truth, what could possibly have set him off? I don't believe for a second he spontaneously combusted. There was an extra kill last night so something doesn't seem right. I concur with this. I've been arguing with Bruce all night about it. No, bombs don't go off by themselves. Also, I don't think bombs are neutral but then convert to a killer and win when they kill just one other player. That's ludicrous. Where is Berty? I also believe there were three kills last night. This would indicate that Barry was janitored by the Scum and most likely Scum himself after that ludicrous roleclaim. I think you called him out yesterday, he knew he could be a lynch target today and tried to feed Berty that ludicrous claim to be proacive. Or maybe he and Berty came up with the genius plan together.
badboytje88 Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 We're down at least 8 Oaks and we have reason to believe that Barry was janitored. I am going to ask this; I think we should open up the situation and reveal everything we know. This code business has done it's job of hiding the scum and misdirecting town and it's time for some scum hunting. Full disclosure, yay or nay; majority wins. Well don't do that. You'll be handing out t he power roles o team scum on a silver platter. Big time NAY from me.
Hinckley Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 There were three major suspects yesterday: Larry, Bobby and Barry. All three are dead, why would the Scum janitor Barry if they were all three Town? I'm assuming the Scum are told the dead at the NA deadline (that's how it's been done before on EB) and then they choose who to clean up. If Barry really was a neutral bomb, how would the Scum know he was neutral? Why wouldn't they stick with the bandwagon of Larry since that would throw off our ability to analyze another lynch vote? And it would keep the janitor action consistent with the lynch to further confuse us. His case was brought up late in the day by one person. It was arguably the weakest case since it was the first time major suspicion had been brought up about Barry. Why would cleaning up Town Barry help the Scum? If they were all three non-Maple, Larry or Bobby make much more sense to janitor. My conclusion: Barry was Scum. Nobody blew up. It says he was felled and then they used dynamite to remove the stump. That's how it's done in the time of Rush:
Fugazi Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 You expect to get info from the pictures? It's been beaten into every game I've played since mafia school that they're just entertainment, not information! I know, but nonetheless in many of the games I played the host chose to use a specific weapon for each killer, consistently, as a deliberate clue. Maybe it's not something that has been done in recent games, I can't say. Barry Cherry's claim code matches one he sent me, and it was not bomb or vigilante. In the list of codes he sent me there was no allowance for a neutral player besides serial killer, so for what it's worth he wasn't planning on claiming neutral. If we want William dead, there are other ways to kill him besides lynch if we're worried that he's a vengeful Scum. According to the ancient scrolls, the Vengeful role is more commonly Oak than Maple. Vengeful Maple essentially gives scum an extra kill, but there wouldn't be a point for scum to use this role if the Vengeful wasn't going to be lynched anyway. William revealed his role (and his plan) at a juncture when he wasn't in any immediate danger of being lynched. Trading one for one is not a good deal for Maples unless the Maple is going to die anyway. I am going to ask this; I think we should open up the situation and reveal everything we know. This code business has done it's job of hiding the scum and misdirecting town and it's time for some scum hunting. Full disclosure, yay or nay; majority wins. I don't your information should be revealed openly. If you can't use it or pass it down to trusted living Oaks, let it remain secret. Who else is down for a Maggie lynch? Why? There were three major suspects yesterday: Larry, Bobby and Barry. All three are dead, why would the Scum janitor Barry if they were all three Town? I'm assuming the Scum are told the dead at the NA deadline (that's how it's been done before on EB) and then they choose who to clean up. If Barry really was a neutral bomb, how would the Scum know he was neutral? Why wouldn't they stick with the bandwagon of Larry since that would throw off our ability to analyze another lynch vote? And it would keep the janitor action consistent with the lynch to further confuse us. His case was brought up late in the day by one person. It was arguably the weakest case since it was the first time major suspicion had been brought up about Barry. Why would cleaning up Town Barry help the Scum? If they were all three non-Maple, Larry or Bobby make much more sense to janitor. My conclusion: Barry was Scum. That's an interesting analysis. I'm not familiar with the mechanics of the janitor role, but it would make sense that the Maples get to choose among dead players instead of janitoring at random hoping their target would get killed. One thing that still bugs me is... why haven't Maples tried to trim down the town block yet? They know who the verified Oaks are, so it shouldn't be so difficult. Are they hoping to fire the suspicion some of us have towards the town block, or have they infiltrated it so well that they don't want to kill off their sources?
Scubacarrot Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 There were three major suspects yesterday: Larry, Bobby and Barry. All three are dead, why would the Scum janitor Barry if they were all three Town? I'm assuming the Scum are told the dead at the NA deadline (that's how it's been done before on EB) and then they choose who to clean up. If Barry really was a neutral bomb, how would the Scum know he was neutral? Why wouldn't they stick with the bandwagon of Larry since that would throw off our ability to analyze another lynch vote? And it would keep the janitor action consistent with the lynch to further confuse us. His case was brought up late in the day by one person. It was arguably the weakest case since it was the first time major suspicion had been brought up about Barry. Why would cleaning up Town Barry help the Scum? If they were all three non-Maple, Larry or Bobby make much more sense to janitor. My conclusion: Barry was Scum. Nice theory, mate, but it's all based on what Berty has apparantly claimed to Bruce, and we are in desperate need for some clarification there. For one thing, she's lying about me having a deal, and how the balls did she know I was talking to Barry anyways?! The "contradiction" accusation does make sense. You said the asterisks were BS, but that Catarina's behaviour was scummy. I don't think anyone voted for her because of the asterisks, they voted for her primarily because they found her posts scummy. You can't act as if the vote against Catarina hinged on asterisks, and take the high ground because of it. As for the fishing: everyone knows that Simon is paranoid. Not this again. I've explained my thought process yesterday. Not going over it again. Barry Cherry's claim code matches one he sent me, and it was not bomb or vigilante. Also can we got more info on this?? Are Penn & Teller intimidating? Magic mate. You don't know how they do that stuff. It's terrifying.
StickFig Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Also can we got more info on this?? What more do you want?
Scubacarrot Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 There is some confusion on Barry's role and we don't know if he was scum or not or really what happened at all. It is pretty significant stuff, in my opinion. Does what you have got help in any way to clear that up? I'm thinking of he didn't claim bomb or vig and we know what, that's pretty significant. It's just dumb. Wow, now it's dumb, but earlier you were ready to happily vote for me? That's a bit odd. You still haven't told us why you think I am lying. The dumb thing actually doesn't apply to that, but you still seem to feel this way.
Mencot Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Are Penn & Teller intimidating? If Penn screams in your face B.U.L.L.S.H.I.T., then it can be. I think Penn & Teller should make an exclusive episode of B.S. that is about Simon and his Maple block! I hope the real oaks will see the right tree who to lynch today [ "Simon] nobody can be this blind. You, Simon have had a great run with your scumbuddies (8 oaks and to unknown down) but no it is time to die *"now" not "no"
mostlytechnic Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 While we're at it... how is is possible for a bomb to just go off? If Barry was really telling a partial truth, what could possibly have set him off? I don't believe for a second he spontaneously combusted. There was an extra kill last night so something doesn't seem right. Key here - Barry did not die of a bomb. The bomb was used to remove his stump. So I suspect that (like I said, there's NO INFO in the pictures). The fact that his stump was removed with dynamite I think has nothing to do with any bomb claim he may have made. So let me throw out a possibility. is it possible that Barry didn't die of his own bomb (if he had such a role at all) - but that he died from a kill role that hasn't show up till now? Something like a PGO - if I understand right, the bomb that has been claimed (not Barry, the other one) only goes off in a death scenario. But a PGO can shoot ANY night visitor. So if Barry had a role (maple OR oak, wouldn't matter) and visited someone last night who was a PGO, that'd explain the extra death. Or have we been seeing 3 kills a night due to lynch/scum/SK and the vig's been sitting back till now, and since Barry was brought up yesterday, the vig killed? SO - Stumps - Can you clarify anything for us - has the vig been active (don't care who it is, just looking to know if we should be looking for a SK or not?) Can you tell us anything about Barry's claim as to clarify his role/death? I'm not fishing, I'm trying to figure out what happened so we can get past it and lynch a scum today. One thing that still bugs me is... why haven't Maples tried to trim down the town block yet? They know who the verified Oaks are, so it shouldn't be so difficult. Are they hoping to fire the suspicion some of us have towards the town block, or have they infiltrated it so well that they don't want to kill off their sources? THIS! The last forest I was in, the town block got infiltrated and the scum used it to HUGE advantage and weren't suspect. That's why I said earlier in today that everyone should be looked at, even the town block. You could have a godfather in there, or (like the last forest) you could have someone who wasn't investigated but was "cleared" into the block due to other things, which were wrong :) So, town block, BE CAREFUL. Use the stumps as much as you can to verify anything you can. That's what the codes are SUPPOSED to be for. You could use them for things other than just yourself. Example - Player A and B are both in the block. Player A could say "hey stumps - B says he's a 42354 - can you disprove that?" and see what they say. If they've got a conflicting claim (from B or someone else claiming to be the same role) or any other reason not to believe it, then they can say so. And again, since you don't want to give away who's in the block and who's not, make it a whole list of all of us and use bogus codes for the ones you aren't really asking about. But as for the "reveal all" idea, NAY. Too much has already been revealed to the maples. The stumps should USE the info, not blurt it out.
StickFig Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 There is some confusion on Barry's role and we don't know if he was scum or not or really what happened at all. It is pretty significant stuff, in my opinion. Does what you have got help in any way to clear that up? I'm thinking of he didn't claim bomb or vig and we know what, that's pretty significant. But as for the "reveal all" idea, NAY. Too much has already been revealed to the maples. The stumps should USE the info, not blurt it out. In the interest of not revealing too much and still answering as many questions as possible, I'll repeat what I said earlier: his code matches neither bomb nor vig. Whether his code has any bearing on anything, I have no way of knowing since we do not have his alignment nor his input.
Hinckley Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 One thing that still bugs me is... why haven't Maples tried to trim down the town block yet? Probably so people will ask questions like this. They know who the verified Oaks are, so it shouldn't be so difficult. Are they hoping to fire the suspicion some of us have towards the town block, or have they infiltrated it so well that they don't want to kill off their sources? THIS! The last forest I was in, the town block got infiltrated and the scum used it to HUGE advantage and weren't suspect. ...Or be afraid of things like this. Night Actions targets have been played close to the chest. We are being very careful about these things. If my analysis of Night kills is correct, the Scum killed Lauren, Vickory and Clem. My guess is they are looking for middle of the road posters who are likely to be hiding Night Actions. Maybe they realize that killing one of us and verifying one of us will cause a better coordination of codes on the stump side. That's a great reason, actually. The stumps might be affecting their choices of night kill. Also, we haven't had a very smooth acceptance as the Town block. There's been heavy scrutiny every day. Why would they kill one of us and verify the other when there's a possibility one of us will be lynched? Additionally, killing active players who are Town and not active Scum could potentially reveal the active Scum since the pool of active players is smaller. Let me again point out that Clem was in the list of people who hadn't sent codes to the stumps before Lauren blurted out that all the claims were vanilla. So, let's give a huge round of applause to Lauren for narrowing the field down for them. Or, we've been infiltrated. I doubt that, but anyone who knows me knows that possibility will gnaw at me. Also, if I weren't in the Town block I'd be asking people to think of the same thing, so let's all keep this in mind. Also, as pointed out, being verified has not given us the ability to catch any Scum yet so they probably don't view me or Bruce as a huge threat. By the way, Jack, you're doing that thing again where you don't point out any suspicions of anyone, just discuss mechanics and past games.
Piratedave84 Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Whatever Clem has not yet confirmed you yet has had plenty of time to do so ... SHOCKING! Hum ... Not yet, yet ... Sorry; has not yet confirmed you
Hinckley Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Clem has not yet confirmed you yet has had plenty of time to do so ... SHOCKING! Hum ... Not yet, yet ... Sorry; has not yet confirmed you Thanks for demonstrating my point on now Scum have a different challenge in this game for making a kill. Perhaps they were warned from the beginning by Alden that the kills would become stumps. Lauren, a simple check shows me that Clem has not had plenty of time, he's had zero time since he hasn't logged in for a little over 12 hours.
Piratedave84 Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Thanks for demonstrating my point on now Scum have a different challenge in this game for making a kill. Perhaps they were warned from the beginning by Alden that the kills would become stumps. Lauren, a simple check shows me that Clem has not had plenty of time, he's had zero time since he hasn't logged in for a little over 12 hours. Arghhhh; don't get me wrong, I have town's interest at heart BUT you have to admit we are being steam rolled here and you can't blame me for that; I'm dead.
Mencot Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Lauren, a simple check shows me that Clem has not had plenty of time, he's had zero time since he hasn't logged in for a little over 12 hours. You or Bruce are lying! So better start speaking up, and the truth now and not that BS you have been speaking for the past 4 days.
Duvors Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Sorry I made, a mistake, it was Bruce. doesn't matter, they are both scum. You said very similar things about me. It's also possible to have a wacky wavy arm inflatable tube man role and yet we still haven't seen that. Someone get on that. Vengeful scum doesn't happen. Why not?
jimmynick Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Wow, now it's dumb, but earlier you were ready to happily vote for me? That's a bit odd. You still haven't told us why you think I am lying. I bolded the parts of the quotations I thought were suspect. I think you made a half-baked deal to get Barry to kill Simon in order to pretend to be vengeful. That makes me think you were both very open with your roles and, because I am certain Barry was scum, that makes you scum too.
Zepher Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Larry: QW. You're the first stump I have codes with!! Also, I think any bomb claims are crazy. Clearly Barry was janitored. I don't know why we're even discussing something else. A vengeful tree isn't strictly an oaky role though. It's possible to have a vengeful scum. What makes you 100% sure Simon is scum? Because from where I've been standing, the accusations he made against you made sense. I don't necessarily agree that these accusations prove that you're scum, but I can definitely see the logic behind Simon's thinking. Even if William is a vengeful scum, shouldn't this plan still be followed? 1 town for 1 scum isn't bad. Unless one gets janitored. Maybe that was the plan? This sounds a lot like you want to keep Simon around. The "contradiction" accusation does make sense. You said the asterisks were BS, but that Catarina's behaviour was scummy. I don't think anyone voted for her because of the asterisks, they voted for her primarily because they found her posts scummy. You can't act as if the vote against Catarina hinged on asterisks, and take the high ground because of it. As for the fishing: everyone knows that Simon is paranoid. I highly doubt that's going to happen again. I'm sure the stumps have learned their lesson. It is a little odd how much you and Bruce have been trying to discredit the codes and the stumps, expecting the stumps to do the exact thing we've complained about endlessly again. I have felt for days that the codes are a sort of BS non-helpful thing a Maple would suggest to appear helpful but really confuse the town. Your attitude towards Simon weirds me out too - here you call him out, but earlier you tried to pull him out of harm's way by not having him vote for a possible "vengeful tree" - which is a claim I feel obliged to believe, because if not wouldn't it just be a lynch against him for no real reason? It feels like you're trying to distant yourself but also protect him. I think it's time for Adelaide or Simon to go. I think many oaks agree with me. Stop voting people off for asterisks, starting getting real stuff done. Simon called on us yesterday to stop only focusing on those younger saplings and start to focus on people who know how to play this sort of game. I agree.
Yzalirk Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Did this ping anybody? What do you think the right way to view this is? What do you mean by "ping"? I think that my view would be self-explanatory considering if "Alignment Unknown" meant Neutral - good or bad, we don't know. I find it odd that if Barry was the "Bomb" that he was janitored, like Alastair yet we never found out his role. Unless it's 100% confirmed that he was the "Bomb", than never mind. Why would Maples janoitor Barry if he were the "bomb", doesn't that seem like a waste?
Hinckley Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Hazel, they wouldn't know he was a "bomb". I think Sammy makes a solid point about how Scum would use vengeful and feel less confident about my suspicion of William. I'm still baffled about his involvement with Barry and Gus reactions to that seem tame for him...but I digress My top suspicions now are Nash Ash for reasons I've already stated and once again trying to capitalize on a conflict between two other players. I lost a post to my phone yesterday but I was demonstrating Sue's parroting behavior Peter Cedar seems to be riding that center line. He calls his activity Scum hunting but he hasn't brought up any suspicions from this hunt. He mostly fills posts with code and mechanics talk.
Dragonfire Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 I'm going to reply to one page per post. Page 1: I'm not sure if Barry was janitored. I received info last night that he claimed to be the neutral bomb... who had to live to Day Four. And upon that time, was able to kill one person. He supposedly was supposed to explode when attacked... but he seemed to jump the gun. This info was given to me by Berty, who claims that William also had a deal with Barry - Barry would use his one kill (that he supposedly doesn't have now?? I'm very confused) against Simon. What does everyone think of this? I swear, I'm not making it up. I'm not sure if I believe it, though. To be fair, however, it isn't like Barry was very townie. Why would the Maples kill him?? This is exactly what Barry told me. He might have been lying about all of it though. So Berty fished his way to the claimed bomb? No. Barry specifically told me that he had not claimed bomb to Simon;; besides, he was the one who claimed to me. I didn't ask for his claim. Jack is the definition of flying under the radar. What do you think of William? Did jluck ever claim a code to you guys in private? I know some were confused about if they could PM you. He told everyone to send codes but it doesn't look like he ever did himself. Yes, he claimed a code to me in private.
mostlytechnic Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Ok... so we had 4 trees down last night instead of 3. How? (yeah, I hear you over there already typing away Simon, whining that I'm talking mechanics instead of suspects. Don't care, because this is important too. Plus I'm at work right now waiting on a test to run - I've got time to do this but not go back through 30+ pages of posts to scum hunt at the moment. That'll come, don't you worry) Normal night = 3 down. One lynch, one vig, and one scumkilled. And we saw 3 the first 2 nights, but can't identify the source other than the lynch. Why'd last night have 4? 1. A bomb. Barry's story about being a bomb I don't believe, since he didn't kill another tree with him AND the bomb in the story was his stump, not his death. Just doesn't pass the smell test. And Simon said the claimed Oak bomb is still with us, so not that either. 2. A serial killer. Definitely possible. But a SK wouldn't wait till night 3 to make their first kill - they'd have been killing every night. So that would mean the SK was one of the killers each night and the vig was quiet on nights 1 and 2. Definitely possible. A good vig won't kill every night, especially at first when there's no good scumreads yet. 3. A vengeful townie - but we've already got claims of a holy tree and a bomb, both still with us. And vengefuls make a kill upon death, so... it'd have to mean one of the dead from last night was yet ANOTHER vengeful role. 4. A PGO - similar to vengeful, but kills anyone who visits at night. This is possible - it would also mean that Barry was some role, either town or scum, but non-vanilla. But same as #3 - we've already got 2 similar claims. But if there IS a PGO, I'd say they should claim so the town doesn't lose any roles. So my current lean is #2. We've got a serial killer and a vig who refrained from killing the first two nights (or either the vig or SK was blocked in some way or the target was protected). See, THIS is why we need codes! The stumps should be able to answer what scenario we're facing because if done right, the vig would claim to them and say what he/she did each night, and then we'd know. But as of now, I think we're looking for both scum and a serial killer.
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