Dragonfire Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Page 2: I was not working with Barry in any way. They did claim (don't ask me why) to be some kind of killer, that was last night, I figured Vig, but said it was not exactly vigilante, so that could be the bomb thing. They targetted Bobby, is what he told me last.. But whose claiming it's some kind of bomb, Simon! Yay. I'm afraid Barry was a kind of vig, and was killed and janitored by the scum. I say we execute the plan we talked about, Simon. For those that don't know already. I am the town Holy Tree, or vengeful. Player that hammers a lynch of me dies. So what I'm thinking, we lynch me, and Simon plays the Hammervote. He thinks I'm 100% scum, he's made that abundantly, so clearly he's not afraid of dying from the vengeful action. But it's okay, because he's scum, and I'm town, so he'll die, and I die too, sad times, but 1 scum for 1 town is pretty good still. It's win-win for the town, whatever happens. How in canopy's sake does Berty know I've been talking to Barry? Barry told me about your conversation with him. Barry also said that he wanted to kill Bobby. I did not make a deal with Barry, that never happened. I'm so confused. Clearly Berty knows more about this than anyone else, perhaps he can clarify. I'm willing to paste my whole PM with him and incure the penalty votes because I'm going to get lynched anyway, Berty, so you better make it good. Barry told me that you made a deal with him = he would kill Simon if Simon didn't hammer you. Remember that Barry could have lied to both of us if he was scum. I personally think Barry was the Serial Killer. Pages 3, 4 and 5: I'd like to hear Hazel's wacked out theory, too. It was Barry, not Bobby, right? Anyway... Barry's claim is almost as crazy as Simon's title. Can we get a little more detail about how Berty passed along the claim to Bruce? Did it come in the crazy format initially or was it elaborated upon over time? So, Barry gave a strong hint that he was bomb (but hadn't claimed to Simon) in PM. I asked him if he was the bomb. He gave me a very cryptic explanation of his role, saying that he is a town-sided neutral, wins if he survives to Day 4 (and then can kill someone), and will kill everyone who targets him for death. I reported this to Bruce. I concur with this. I've been arguing with Bruce all night about it. No, bombs don't go off by themselves. Also, I don't think bombs are neutral but then convert to a killer and win when they kill just one other player. That's ludicrous. Where is Berty? I also believe there were three kills last night. This would indicate that Barry was janitored by the Scum and most likely Scum himself after that ludicrous roleclaim. I think you called him out yesterday, he knew he could be a lynch target today and tried to feed Berty that ludicrous claim to be proacive. Or maybe he and Berty came up with the genius plan together. I live in the UK, so it was night-time for me at the time of this post. And why would I do this? Nice theory, mate, but it's all based on what Berty has apparantly claimed to Bruce, and we are in desperate need for some clarification there. For one thing, she's lying about me having a deal, and how the balls did she know I was talking to Barry anyways?! 1) If anyone's lying, it's Barry or you. I told Bruce what Barry told me, and I'm telling all of you too. 2) Barry told me that he was talking to you 3) I AM NOT A "SHE". So my current lean is #2. We've got a serial killer and a vig who refrained from killing the first two nights (or either the vig or SK was blocked in some way or the target was protected). See, THIS is why we need codes! The stumps should be able to answer what scenario we're facing because if done right, the vig would claim to them and say what he/she did each night, and then we'd know. But as of now, I think we're looking for both scum and a serial killer. You know what I think? 1) There is scum, a vig and a SK 2) Barry was the SK 3) SK and scum killed on Night 1 and Night 2 4) When I told Bruce about Barry's odd claim, Bruce alerted the Vig, who didn't kill anyone on the first two nights 5) Vig killed Barry, Barry killed Bobby, scum killed Clem. Oh yeah, codes. Bobby, I am a 9801. Larry, I am a 37. Clem, I am a 64 (my role- miller- wasn't in the codes you sent me)
Lady K Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Why are you sending out a second set of codes? We already have codes for you.
Dragonfire Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Why are you sending out a second set of codes? We already have codes for you. Oh- I thought we had to send out codes to all new stumps Who do you not have codes for ??
mostlytechnic Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Berty, I really like your explanation of the kills. Barry being the vig makes sense. The big thing - why on earth did Barry claim anything to anyone? I don't remember him being a focus of any attention yesterday, at least until the very end. Worried that he pinged enough there that a vig would kill him so he was trying to claim to the town to be something? I strongly suspect that got him killed instead.
Dragonfire Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 So I made a vote count thingy- not sure how useful it is but here goes.... (( Stumps in GREEN. I've put Alistair and Barry as red for now as I think neither of them was town )) Player Name Username Vote D1 Vote D2 Vote D3 Adelaide Apple TinyPiesRUs Brickelodeon (14) Zepher (1) Lord Duvors (2) TLC (11) Agnes Cyprus JackJonesPaw Dragonfire (3) adventurer1 (3) Removed Night Two Alistair Pear Brickelodeon Goliath (1) adventurer1 (2) Lynched Day One Barry Cherry jluck adventurer1 (1), Brickelodeon (13) adventurer1 (4) Lord Duvors (5) Bobby Beech Lord Duvors Brickelodeon (4) adventurer1 (8) NO VOTE Berty Birch Dragonfire JackJonesPaw (1) adventurer1 (11) TLC (13) Bruce Spruce Tamamono Dragonfire (2), Brickelodeon (2) adventurer1 (1) adventurer1 (16) TLC (3) Buck "Dollar" Poplar Mencot Brickelodeon (15) Removed Night One Catarina Dogwood adventurer1 Goliath (3), Brickelodeon (12) jluck (1) Lynched Day Two Chester Chestnut Lego Spy Brickelodeon (6) adventurer1 (6) TLC (7) Clem Elm Scaevola Dragonfire (1), Brickelodeon (3) adventurer1 (5) Lord Duvors (1) Hazel Hazelnut Goliath TLC (2), adventurer1 (3) adventurer1 (10) TLC (6) Jack Pine mostlytechnic Goliath (1) adventurer1 (15) jluck (1) Larry Larch TheLazyChicken Lego Spy (1) adventurer1 (13) badboytje88 (1) Lassie Sassafras fhomess Tamamono (3) adventurer1 (14) TLC (9) Lauren Laurel PirateDave84 Brickelodeon (7) Removed Night One Maggie Magnolia Calanon Brickelodeon (9) Lego Spy (3) TLC (8) Nash Ash Zepher Brickelodeon (8) Lego Spy (2) TLC (1) Peter Cedar badboytje88 Goliath (2) adventurer1 (12) Lord Duvors (3) TLC (10) Sammy Sycamore Fugazi Tamamono (2) adventurer1 (9) Dragonfire (1) Simon Persimmon Hinckley TLC (1), Brickelodeon (11) Fugazi (1) adventurer1 (3) TLC (2) Sue Sumac Bob TPRU (1), Brickelodeon (10) adventurer1 (7) TLC (4) Vicky Hickory Stickfig Brickelodeon (1) Lego Spy (1) Removed Night Two Waldorf Walnut jamesn Brickelodeon (5) adventurer1 (2) TLC (5) jluck (1) TLC (12) William Willow Scubacarrot Tamamono (1) Calanon (1) Lord Duvors (4) Hinckley (1) Jack, I think you mean SK rather than vig. I think Barry was worried that he'd be the prime choice of lynch were Larry to flip scum. Ignore that, it was meant to be a table, but absolutely failed. Looking at the votes yesterday, I find the wagon on Bobby weird. Clem (now a stump) started it off, followed by Adelaide, Peter, William and Barry. Adelaide, Peter and William all jumped off the wagon to vote Larry (or Simon, in William's case) This left Clem and Barry on Bobby's wagon. Clem, Barry and Bobby all died in the night. Nobody who voted for Larry died. This probably has no significance; I just find it odd.
Lego Spy Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Sorry I'm a little late to the party, but I've been reading throughout the day. I agree that the stumps should not divulge all their information in public. That would be giving the names of every Oak tree that has claimed to the stumps, to the Maples. Not a good idea. I say yay (as in yes, not because I'm excited. In fact, I'm quite tired.). Some of these claims may be lies, but at the very least some thoughts will be forced into those alive trees' heads. Yes, that's true, but some of those claims may not be lies, and the alive trees are Oak, Maple, and possibly Third-Party. I really don't see any good reason for an Oak to want to have this information divulged in public. Your post has been noted. 3) I AM NOT A "SHE". Off-topic, but Berty is technically a unisex name. Gosh darn it, I didn't realize you were a stump Agnes.
Walter Kovacs Posted February 13, 2015 Author Posted February 13, 2015 Voting is now open. You have 50 hours left in Day 4. With 15 trees, it takes 8 votes to lynch.
Dragonfire Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 I'm not liking Chester, Nash, Peter or William right now. Vote: Peter Cedar (badboytje88) I explained why I thought Peter's behaviour was odd yesterday. Now that we know that Bobby and Larry were both town, Peter's wagon- jumping looks like a scum member who doesn't care who is lynched because the two targets are both town. Plus, Peter has barely contributed anything of substance. Flying under the radar too.
Scaevola Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 In regards to Simon yes I've received his role. I was unexpectedly interrupted when discussing this with the stumps and have been unable to check on the discussion since. I apologize for the delay/confusion.
Dragonfire Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 vote: Nash Ash (Zepher) Any particular reason? Why not vote for William?
Hinckley Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Any particular reason? Why not vote for William? I answered that already. However Berty tells me Barry new about Williams "deal" with me. How did he know that?? Knew
Scubacarrot Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 I just realized something. Barry first told me he was going to target Clem. Later he changed that to Bobby. Both are dead. I assume Bobby is most likely to be a vig kill. That must mean the scum kill was Clem.... I have no idea what this means... Berty. There was no deal. Barry told me that if I would die, he would have my back and take Simon out. That is no deal. Deal have two sides to them. I responded with asking if he just claimed vig to me. Hm. You can kind of see that as a deal, I guess. Vote: Simon Persimmon Why not? Because it's stupid.
Hinckley Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Vote: Simon Persimmon You didn't format it correctly.
Scubacarrot Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Why would Barry trust you, Berty? You didn't format it correctly. Thanks. Vote: Simon Persimmon (Hinckley)
Hinckley Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Nice theory, mate, but it's all based on what Berty has apparantly claimed to Bruce, and we are in desperate need for some clarification there. For one thing, she's lying about me having a deal, and how the balls did she know I was talking to Barry anyways?! It doesn't hinge on that at all. Three dead people, Larry and Bobby more suspicion than Barry, so why was Barry janitored? The Scum wouldn't have known if he was neutral. They would've known if he was Maple or not. Why are you resisting the theory?
Scubacarrot Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Adelaide, Peter and William all jumped off the wagon to vote Larry (or Simon, in William's case) Yeah, so why group me in with Peter and Adelaide? It doesn't hinge on that at all. Three dead people, Larry and Bobby more suspicion than Barry, so why was Barry janitored? The Scum wouldn't have known if he was neutral. They would've known if he was Maple or not. Why are you resisting the theory? Wait, do you claim to think Barry was a scum bomb on top of their team having a killer, they knew he'd die, and janitored him, all scum automatically get janitored or what? Because it makes no sense the way things happened?
Hinckley Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Why would Barry trust you, Berty? Barry was a liar, spreading lies. I wouldn't call that trust. I did not make a deal with Barry, that never happened. I'm so confused. Clearly Berty knows more about this than anyone else, perhaps he can clarify. I just realized something. Barry first told me he was going to target Clem. Later he changed that to Bobby. Both are dead. I assume Bobby is most likely to be a vig kill. That must mean the scum kill was Clem.... I have no idea what this means... Berty. There was no deal. Barry told me that if I would die, he would have my back and take Simon out. That is no deal. Deal have two sides to them. I responded with asking if he just claimed vig to me. Hm. You can kind of see that as a deal, I guess. You just remembered that? Why didn't you mention him talking about me when it was first mentioned you had talked about killing me? That's a huge lapse in memory. Why did he trust you so much that he "had your back"? William, did you press him at all about the weird kind-of-vig-but-neutrally claim he made? I imagine if I had made such a weird claim you would've PMed every player in the game about it. And why were you focused on me when Bobby and Clem were dead and Barry had been talking to you about killing them? You're trying to get lynched. You have to be.
Hinckley Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 From Mafiawiki: A Vengeful player is a one that, when lynched, is awarded the ability to kill any other player as they die. Vengeful roles are much more commonly Town than Mafia, as Vengeful Mafia roles essentially punish the Town for lynching them. And: A Super Saint is a Vengeful Townie who only kills the person who placed the hammer vote (they do not get to choose). "more commonly Town than Mafia" is no endorsement that it's not possible he's a Vengeful Scum. Am I still tunneling my focus on him? Or are my new concerns about him legit? Because now what he's saying sounds downright ridiculous. No offense, William.
Dragonfire Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 I answered that already. However Berty tells me Barry new about Williams "deal" with me. How did he know that?? Knew William told me, Barry, and probably others via PM. Out of the blue. I just realized something. Barry first told me he was going to target Clem. Later he changed that to Bobby. Both are dead. I assume Bobby is most likely to be a vig kill. That must mean the scum kill was Clem.... I have no idea what this means... Berty. There was no deal. Barry told me that if I would die, he would have my back and take Simon out. That is no deal. Deal have two sides to them. I responded with asking if he just claimed vig to me. Hm. You can kind of see that as a deal, I guess. Well then Barry was lying to one of us. Or you're lying. I think Barry was the SK. Barry told me he wanted to kill Bobby, so I assume that's who he killed. I think Clem was the scum kill and Barry himself was the vig kill. Why would Barry trust you, Berty? I've been in contact with him since Day 1 and townread him. He believed my claim. He was almost certainly a big liar and only pretended to trust me. Yeah, so why group me in with Peter and Adelaide? Wait, do you claim to think Barry was a scum bomb on top of their team having a killer, they knew he'd die, and janitored him, all scum automatically get janitored or what? Because it makes no sense the way things happened? I'm just pointing something out, William. I don't think there's a janitor. I think the alignments of all Maples/Neutrals are hidden upon death. Barry was a liar, spreading lies. I wouldn't call that trust. You just remembered that? Why didn't you mention him talking about me when it was first mentioned you had talked about killing me? That's a huge lapse in memory. Why did he trust you so much that he "had your back"? William, did you press him at all about the weird kind-of-vig-but-neutrally claim he made? I imagine if I had made such a weird claim you would've PMed every player in the game about it. And why were you focused on me when Bobby and Clem were dead and Barry had been talking to you about killing them? You're trying to get lynched. You have to be. I have a feeling that William is a jester or something. If not, then he is what he claims to be. I doubt he'd try to get lynched as scum. Scum bomb or scum vengeful is too OP.
Hinckley Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Scum bomb or scum vengeful is too OP. To metagame, I can't imagine why a host would punish a player for hammering a Scum... what would that balance? I have William-is-Scum-tunnel-vision-goggles on. Can somebody be my eyes? Wait, do you claim to think Barry was a scum bomb on top of their team having a killer, they knew he'd die, and janitored him, all scum automatically get janitored or what? Because it makes no sense the way things happened? He wasn't a bomb at all. I've already said that. Berty also tells me that William told him that we (William and I) distrust each other not that he thought I was Scum. Interesting wording when he says he didn't believe my suspicions of him.
Dragonfire Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 To metagame, I can't imagine why a host would punish a player for hammering a Scum... what would that balance? I have William-is-Scum-tunnel-vision-goggles on. Can somebody be my eyes? The first line of your post implies that William is town. He wasn't a bomb at all. I've already said that. Berty also tells me that William told him that we (William and I) distrust each other not that he thought I was Scum. Interesting wording when he says he didn't believe my suspicions of him. His exact words were that you (Simon) and he distrust each other immensely. He later said that "at least he'd kill a scum [ by way of his vengeful claim ]"
Hinckley Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 The first line of your post implies that William is town. I have stated several times I'm not fully confident in my suspicions. I have been trying to keep an open mind and listen to what people are telling me. Most people who I trust are telling me to knock it off.
fhomess Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Know who pointed out to me you trying to back would be super scummy? Barry. And he's dead. We... don't actually know if he was town, but he said it. I think we know that he was NOT an oak. Oaks don't go concocting crazy role claims in the middle of the night. Barry Cherry's claim code matches one he sent me, and it was not bomb or vigilante. This really shouldn't surprise anyone. I'm guessing he was one of the vanilla's since he'd want to lay low. There were three major suspects yesterday: Larry, Bobby and Barry. All three are dead, why would the Scum janitor Barry if they were all three Town? I'm assuming the Scum are told the dead at the NA deadline (that's how it's been done before on EB) and then they choose who to clean up. If Barry really was a neutral bomb, how would the Scum know he was neutral? Why wouldn't they stick with the bandwagon of Larry since that would throw off our ability to analyze another lynch vote? And it would keep the janitor action consistent with the lynch to further confuse us. His case was brought up late in the day by one person. It was arguably the weakest case since it was the first time major suspicion had been brought up about Barry. Why would cleaning up Town Barry help the Scum? If they were all three non-Maple, Larry or Bobby make much more sense to janitor. My conclusion: Barry was Scum. With all due respect, Barry was not a major suspect yesterday and your paragraph here says as much. I agree with your conclusion but you're muddying the waters. That's an interesting analysis. I'm not familiar with the mechanics of the janitor role, but it would make sense that the Maples get to choose among dead players instead of janitoring at random hoping their target would get killed. There's something about this that makes me feel like you're trying to distance yourself from the janitoring activity. The great Sammy Sycamore isn't familiar with janitoring? Even if William is a vengeful scum, shouldn't this plan still be followed? 1 town for 1 scum isn't bad. Unless one gets janitored. Maybe that was the plan? This sounds a lot like you want to keep Simon around. Are you suggesting that Waldorf is scum with Simon? Right now, Barry looks most like a maple, and at the very least neutral. Waldorf was the first person to really accuse him yesterday. So I made a vote count thingy- not sure how useful it is but here goes.... The red seems to indicate that you believe Alastair and Barry are both scum? Why so sure on Alastair? To metagame, I can't imagine why a host would punish a player for hammering a Scum... what would that balance? The stumps, perhaps? A few additional observations for William: First, why did you think vengeful was such an important role to share early on? What does that accomplish as an oak? Second, you're the only one that hasn't yet voted along with one of the primary lynch candidates, twice casting throw away votes at players who got no other votes and voting Bruce on Day 1. We don't know Alastair for sure, but it seems like you've been intentionally playing away from the other saplings.
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