Unrest in the Forest - Day 4: 2112

[Hinckley]

Vote: Hazel Hazelnut (Goliath)

I also probably won't be on for a bit but if I'm the lynchee for the day,

In case he passively hammers himself? I need to take a break, I think...

[Hinckley]

It takes 8 votes to lynch.

Humor me. I'm know it's far-fetched but the more I think of it the more plausible it is. Why else would she vote for herself out of the blue. Let's put 7 votes on someone who isn't Hazel and see if her vote is passively added to hammer it. What can it hurt? Let's play a game of chicken with the Maples.

[Hinckley]

Furthermore, the only day Hazel hasn't been on the bandwagon was the day known Scum (Barry, if that's accepted) was the hammer.

Why else does someone vote for themselves? I'm not crazy. At least I don't think. Let's test this.

He literally says he votes for himself in case that's where the majority votes are! Then says he'll come back later and look into his other suspicions.

Hammerer. Maple.

[mostlytechnic]

But why a hammerer in this forest? It's a bigger deal in other forests on other continents (I think it's called mafiascumasia or something like that) because the whole setup is different. There is not a fixed time to end the day; it ends when anyone is hammered. So the effect there is that someone votes someone to the point of being one vote short of being lynched (and therefore ending the day) and it's a surprise when suddenly it's over and the lynchee is lynched sooner than expected.

In THIS forest, how often does it happen that someone is one vote shy of being lynched at the end of the day? Pretty darn rare. So I just don't see a hammerer having much effect here.

That said, now I'm doing some serious WIFOM because I was coming here all prepared to go build a case against hazel and attempt to see her lynched. Is it possible after the aborted attempt against me that she saw the writing on the wall and IS a scum making a desperate play to stick around?

This is either bad town play, or a desperate scum. Either way, I am ok with supporting Hazel's move.

Vote: Hazel Hazelnut (goliath)

[MagPiesRUs]

I've given some thought and I feel like I should just do this;

Vote: Hazel Hazelnut (Goliath)

I vote for myself for many reasons but I'll keep it short and sweet, for the most part. If you guys believe that I'm a perfect person to be lynched, I'm 100% perfectly fine with this. I'd rather be lynched and shown that I'm an Oak rather than being attacked by a Maple and janitored that way no one knows who I am. I'm a vanilla Oak and I'm not very helpful to the town. So why should I even be here? I'm surprised I even made it this far and even that is a goal for me. I'm somewhat sad about my decision here but, like I said, I'd rather go out knowing I was an Oak and hopefully that will open up the eyes of everyone here. I don't expect anyone to believe it, yet. Clearly I'm not as experienced as most people here but I don't want people to feel bad because of that. So please, don't. Sadly, you guys will be down a townie but I believe I'll just cause more harm than help. I have no reason to back up why I behaved like a bit of a dick other than I tried to help.

I also probably won't be on for a bit but if I'm the lynchee for the day, Oaks, don't screw up. I'd say I'm probably the least helpful townie there is and I've only contributed to getting other Oaks lynched that I believed were Maples. Now it seems the tides have turned. This is probably going to be a decision I'll regret but it must be done, in my opinion. Now, I feel like I'm getting to the part where I just repeat myself. I don't want anyone to feel bad because it's inevitable that I will be gone and I'd rather have it sooner than later. And I will say it again, I don't want to be janitored by Maples, if I even can, that won't prove my innocence, that will just make me sad. And if I'm gone, take a look into those whom I hinted at suspecting or that I would suspect, like Nash or Chester.

Being lynched doesn't stop you from being janitored. Alastair was lynched, and we don't know his allegiance. And you'd rather vote yourself out (the only person you should know for certain is an Oak) rather than the people you say we should look into when you die? Why not vote for Nash? Or Chester?

By the way, here's a list of people who still don't appear to have claimed codes publicly:

Bob and Goliath - These two have acted confused about them and have claimed that they won't work. I am baffled that they don't seem to have made any attempt to understand the significance of the codes. Possibly scum riding on the back of other's confusion, or possibly just very lazy oaks...

LegoSpy - Has made no mention at all of the code idea. Completely ignored them.

badboytje - Sent codes out but sabotaged them by giving the same ones to each person; doesn't seem to have made any attempt to correct this.

fhomess and Calanon - Both have openly supported the use of codes, yet have not actually claimed any publicly. Why is this?

[Hinckley]

But why a hammerer in this forest?

My theory may have some meta-reasoning behind it.

But it's suspect and now it's gnawing at me. Like an Emerald Ash Borer. And I'm a Persimmon!

But why a hammerer in this forest?

Also, how does the role work? Does it pull the Scum's vote to the bandwagon and show the name? I've never experienced the role. I'm basing this mostly on Hazel's voting pattern.

[Bob]

By the way, here's a list of people who still don't appear to have claimed codes publicly:

Bob and Goliath - These two have acted confused about them and have claimed that they won't work. I am baffled that they don't seem to have made any attempt to understand the significance of the codes. Possibly scum riding on the back of other's confusion, or possibly just very lazy oaks...

I'll grant you that I've acted confused about them, but I have indeed claimed my codes publicly, on the second page as well.

Larry: Chocolate

Bobby: elephant

Clem: debate

[MagPiesRUs]

I'll grant you that I've acted confused about them, but I have indeed claimed my codes publicly, on the second page as well.

Oops! Sorry, I guess I missed that.

[mostlytechnic]

Also, how does the role work? Does it pull the Scum's vote to the bandwagon and show the name? I've never experienced the role. I'm basing this mostly on Hazel's voting pattern.

I've never played with a hammerer, so this is just based on reading. But from what I understand, the last vote just appears as "hammerer" in the vote tallys, not the name of whoever the hammerer is. So it's usually obvious on day 1 that there IS one, and then after that it's tough to identify since their vote that they state publicly is still listed in the tally, but doesn't matter. The only way to catch them I know of is they WON'T be on the lynchee ever since their vote doesn't count twice.

But we're back to mechanics And I just don't see a hammerer being of any use in this forest.

I'll grant you that I've acted confused about them, but I have indeed claimed my codes publicly, on the second page as well.

Ah, so it was just ACTING confused? Sounds scummy...

[jimmynick]

In case he passively hammers himself? I need to take a break, I think...

This whole hammerer thing sounds like useless and idle speculation. I think Hazel is just trying to guilt us into not lynching her.

[Hinckley]

I've never played with a hammerer, so this is just based on reading. But from what I understand, the last vote just appears as "hammerer" in the vote tallys, not the name of whoever the hammerer is. So it's usually obvious on day 1 that there IS one, and then after that it's tough to identify since their vote that they state publicly is still listed in the tally, but doesn't matter. The only way to catch them I know of is they WON'T be on the lynchee ever since their vote doesn't count twice.

Oh, It's still weird. I suppose it doesn't matter either way. If we think Hazel's a hammerer, she's Scum either way and we should just vote her off. Sorry. I'm on Mafia overload.

[Yzalirk]

This whole hammerer thing sounds like useless and idle speculation. I think Hazel is just trying to guilt us into not lynching her.

Nope, not at all. I don't care if you vote for me or not, just go with your mind tells you to. I don't want you or anyone to feel bad. You may not openly admit, just like others, than all I've done was throw around petty accusations and have just made myself look like a fool. Besides, I can tell that you've wanted me gone for a while now anyway, so why reconsider now? You've questioned just about everything I've said.

Adelaide, I would have voted for one of them but I just can't make a strong case against them. That makes me pretty useless, wouldn't you say? What makes the difference if I'm gone anyway?

Jack, I was also hoping you might say something like that.

[Yzalirk]

Oh and Simon, not even close.

[MagPiesRUs]

Vig targets

Night One: Buck

Night Two: Agnes

Night Three: Bobby

So the vig has been active every night? So unless there is no serial killer, another killer was blocked/protected against on the first two nights?

Adelaide, I would have voted for one of them but I just can't make a strong case against them. That makes me pretty useless, wouldn't you say? What makes the difference if I'm gone anyway?

Do you have any case against them?Why do you expect us to go after them when you die if you have given us nothing to work with?

Why haven't you sent any codes to the stumps yet? Don't say it's because you're useless...

[StickFig]

I didn't realize. I skimmed over his post and thought he was saying someone had claimed vigilante.

Also, I never said I wanted him lynched really bad...

Hot dang I wish someone would vote against you already.

Chester spouts nothingness.

Yep, he's a maple.

[Yzalirk]

Do you have any case against them?Why do you expect us to go after them when you die if you have given us nothing to work with?

Why haven't you sent any codes to the stumps yet? Don't say it's because you're useless...

If I had, don't you think I would have presented it earlier? And for starters, Jack was quick to vote for me after I voted for myself with his reasoning basically being "I was going to present a case against him but he made it easier for me". I know that I changed my mind about Jack but seeing how fast he was to vote for me with practically no reason behind it making it almost look like a revenge vote. So I'd say that if I go, look at Jack a bit further, if you're not a Maple. As for Nash and Chester, just read thoroughly on what they've said and done, see if anything pings to you. I will try to help with that later if need be.

Also, I believe that living trees cannot PM stumps. I thought that this was established already?

[MagPiesRUs]

If I had, don't you think I would have presented it earlier? And for starters, Jack was quick to vote for me after I voted for myself with his reasoning basically being "I was going to present a case against him but he made it easier for me". I know that I changed my mind about Jack but seeing how fast he was to vote for me with practically no reason behind it making it almost look like a revenge vote. So I'd say that if I go, look at Jack a bit further, if you're not a Maple. As for Nash and Chester, just read thoroughly on what they've said and done, see if anything pings to you. I will try to help with that later if need be.

Also, I believe that living trees cannot PM stumps. I thought that this was established already?

So do you just have a gut feeling about Nash and Chester?

You can't PM the stumps, but you can post a code for them in this thread. Have you PMed anyone with a list of codes yet? If not, why not? Has anyone who has died sent you their codes?

Also, who did Clem investigate, Bruce or Simon? Clem, is there anyone you're sure is an oak? Should the stumps start sending their info back to a trusted living oak via code, or does no one want to risk sending it to a possible scum?

[jimmynick]

Also, I believe that living trees cannot PM stumps. I thought that this was established already?

Have you not been paying attention for days?

[fhomess]

fhomess and Calanon - Both have openly supported the use of codes, yet have not actually claimed any publicly. Why is this?

I thought I had sent a code in. Vicky, I'm a 52.

As for a vote today, if Barry didn't want to kill Maggie according to Berty, and we all think Barry was scum, shouldn't that suggest something?

Vote: Maggie Magnolia (Calanon)

[StickFig]

I thought I had sent a code in. Vicky, I'm a 52.

Acknowledged, thanks.

[Hinckley]

As for a vote today, if Barry didn't want to kill Maggie according to Berty, and we all think Barry was scum, shouldn't that suggest something?

It's all a matter of WIFOM. And since Maggie was mentioned by Bruce, it's possible Barry didn't really offer an opinion, just switched to saying Bobby since he knew Bobby was dead and didn't want to implicate his teammates by claiming Clem as his target. It'd help if we could nail down the timelines of the weird things Barry said. If we could all focus for a second instead of spouting off weird theories about a hammerer... ...Sorry.

But, I wouldn't miss Maggie and it's at least something to go on.

Oh and Simon, not even close.

So, what is your Scum role then?

Yep, he's a maple.

Is this a suspicion or do the stumps have any proof? It seems like a suspicion, I thought I'd just make my ...968th...post of the day about Chester because why not?

[badboytje88]

I'm going to Vote: Peter Cedar (badboytje88).

Why? He seems genuinely useless and hasn't contributed much of anything these last few days. Let's look at his one (and only) contribution for the day:

Wow, how insightful. He's not been doing much of anything and most his votes he's simply said "I'm just hopping on the bandwagon!" He's either scum trying to lay low or he's incredibly unhelpful as a townie.

I've caught the flue so I've been sleeping for the most part of the last 2 daya. Hence my inactivity. If you wish to votw me off for being useless or unhelpful, then go ahead. But by doing so you won't be helping the oaks one bit.

I'm not liking Chester, Nash, Peter or William right now.

Vote: Peter Cedar (badboytje88)

I explained why I thought Peter's behaviour was odd yesterday. Now that we know that Bobby and Larry were both town, Peter's wagon- jumping looks like a scum member who doesn't care who is lynched because the two targets are both town. Plus, Peter has barely contributed anything of substance. Flying under the radar too.

Well I wanted to get one player to speak up so I poked hom. Later I switched cause he defended himself, we needed a lunch and I thought the other player was a better target. Was I right? No! Was I the only one? No!

[MagPiesRUs]

Well I wanted to get one player to speak up so I poked hom. Later I switched cause he defended himself, we needed a lunch and I thought the other player was a better target. Was I right? No! Was I the only one? No!

No, you didn't switch your vote because he defended himself. You switched because we called you out on your vote:

I am trying to get someone to speak up.

Bobby did not speak between this post and your next post...

Unvote: Bobby Beech (Lord Duvors)

As I said before it was a just a poke. I do not know what to think of you just yet but I do know I wan't to stop this from getting turned into a big bandwagon against you.

And here's your first defense of your vote (note that Bobby did not say anything between this post and the two posts of Peter's that followed):

Well I want him to speak up because there have been enough people questioning his motives yet he remains silent which makes me question wether or not he os taking this serious. So no I am not convinced he is maple. But he isn't doing a good job at making us believe he is oak.

Also, why haven't you posted a code claim to the stumps yet? You claim to have accidentally sent the same codes to everyone, but you don't seem to have made any attempt to fix this.

[MagPiesRUs]

For those of you keeping track at home, here are Peter's and Bobby's final posts from yesterday, in chronological order (click on the top left of each quote to get the full context):

Vote: Bobby Beech (Lord Duvors)

Just a friendly poke to get you to speak up.

Thank you, I love it when people try to get me to talk while I'm not even online with poorly disguised bandwagoning.

More, 'late game nihilism', and it's only just day three. Why do I feel like this on day three?

Clem says He's suspicious of me, and then he gets upset when someone votes for me?

Right now I'm interested in this ethereal investigator that Simon is saying confirmed him and Bruce, how do we know that he even exists? On the other hand, as has been said before, if this investigator is a fake, why hasn't the real one come foreword? An annoying and strange state of affairs. To help clear this up I'd like my memory refreshed, how was Bruce cleared?

No no, I'm the nihilist here, really, was it not obvious from the way I said it?

Arrrgh! Sorry, forget this question, I got Bruce confused with Berty and thought that Bruce was the one who claimed miller, ignore this.

Yes, because I discovered I made a mistake and was going after someone for the wrong person, are you literally blind?

*Reason, not person, sorry.*

The entire thing was meant as a lead up to an accusation, however due to my mistake it was non valid and I realized it.

Look, just because I admit a mistake doesn't mean that I'm not suspicious about the bloody investigator, where did I ever say that I was no longer suspicious of the claim?

To contradict an accusation of uselessness that is absolutely true and easily verifiable is a lie. Simple.

That's the last post Bobby makes before he dies. Peter, can you point out which part of Bobby's defense changed your mind about him? Was it the part where he said he was a nihilist? Was it where he kept changing his opinion on the investigator? How about the part where he admitted to being useless? (that's funny, Hazel is trying to use that same defense today...)

After these posts, Peter comes back, realises he's under heat, and tries to defend his vote:

Well I want him to speak up because there have been enough people questioning his motives yet he remains silent which makes me question wether or not he os taking this serious. So no I am not convinced he is maple. But he isn't doing a good job at making us believe he is oak.

I am trying to get someone to speak up.

Eventually, he caves and unvotes Bobby.

Unvote: Bobby Beech (Lord Duvors)

As I said before it was a just a poke. I do not know what to think of you just yet but I do know I wan't to stop this from getting turned into a big bandwagon against you.

Only when prompted does Peter start talking about how suspicious Larry is:

Well there have been some connections between both of them. If I had to choose which one looks more scummy to me at this point I'd have to go with Larry. Also I have to admit that the case against him is the stronger one. Though Bobby might be on the scum as well.

It is striking how Larry defended someone on day 1. Someone he didn't know. Or maybe they met before. Somewhere on a writeboard titled scum.

It doesn't look it was Bobby's defense that convinced Peter to switch votes. It looks to me like he was pressured into changing his vote. If I was a gambling tree, I'd bet that you would've been content with your vote if no one had called you on it.

Vote: Peter Cedar (badboytje88)

It looks like Maggie has about 12 hours left to post until she's mod-killed...

[Calanon]

Of the stumps today, only one of them I shared codes with. Will read through the thread a bit later.

Larry: Ice cream