Hinckley Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 Thinking about it some more, Barry did talk to a lot of people about his role. Well at least William, Berty and Bruce knew that he could kill. If this came to the ears of a Maple, they might have figured our Barry was the SK. When he turned up dead, they might have decided to janitor Barry... perhaps so that Oaks would think they killed the scum killer? I'm trying to figure out if it's possible that scum decided to janitor the SK... because from what we learned today, Barry had a very weird out there behaviour for a Maple killer. Way to think it through. Good point. I don't think there was such a role in the game I helped host either. I tend to agree with your analysis. I wouldn't put past scum to janitor the SK, but I don't think I have found a totally convincing justification for them acting so. Again, to keep all points together, they wouldn't know his alignment unless he claimed to them. Come to think of it, why wouldn't they believe he was the vig? Unless he was hawking that neutral bomb story. I thought the town block knew who the vig was... Someone can possibly confirm the target of the vig. I'd like to. I just need to confirm with the other members that it's OK. It should clear things up for everyone but I just want to think of all possibilities. We're all a bit paranoid. It'd be great to coordinate what we know with the stumps and come up with a road map for Scum. That's why I came up with the name code for Clem. I wish we all would've thought of that like you had. This may look like a whole lot of idle theories, but it may actually be important to know with a degree of certainty whether Barry was scum or neutral (SK). His interactions with some other trees are being scutinized and perhaps that the reason he was janitored was to prevent us from drawing some obvious conclusions... More on this later. If the "All Scum are removed and not turned into stumps" theory is true, then we should look at Brickelodeon too. And my theory about him begging Bruce to unvote. Perhaps there were no Scum on his bandwagon as it had such a slow burn... Hazel and Alastair had weird interactions. Alastair accepted that random vote idea and unvoted Hazel. That pinged everybody. Perhaps that was a staged vote? Why are you just looking for names? What are your thoughts and suspicions? Picking a name and justifying it later is Scummy Actually, I don't know. I like the sound of that though for some reason. Obviously, the random vote strategy hasn't changed much.
Fugazi Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 Was there? Again, to keep all points together, they wouldn't know his alignment unless he claimed to them. Come to think of it, why wouldn't they believe he was the vig? Unless he was hawking that neutral bomb story. No one he talked to actually believed he was the vig. His role claim was just too crazy, and the real vig would have been much more circumspect. Remember that Barry couldn't know if he was talking to Oak or Maple. In other words, my theory is: 1) Scum figure out that Barry is the SK 2) Scum attempt to protect Barry from a lynch because they can use him (mislead him into killing for them) 3) Vig kills SK during the night 4) Scum janitor Barry because a) not doing so would make one of them look bad; or b) they want to keep town confused. Does it make sense, of is it too far fetched? I'd like to think that Barry was scum, but would a Maple really run around claiming an unbelievable role like he did? If the "All Scum are removed and not turned into stumps" theory is true, then we should look at Brickelodeon too. And my theory about him begging Bruce to unvote. Perhaps there were no Scum on his bandwagon as it had such a slow burn... Hazel and Alastair had weird interactions. Alastair accepted that random vote idea and unvoted Hazel. That pinged everybody. Perhaps that was a staged vote? I need to review all that stuff, can't say I remember much of Day 1.
Hinckley Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 Was there? Yes. No one he talked to actually believed he was the vig. William believed him, didn't he? In other words, my theory is: 1) Scum figure out that Barry is the SK 2) Scum attempt to protect Barry from a lynch because they can use him (mislead him into killing for them) 3) Vig kills SK during the night 4) Scum janitor Barry because a) not doing so would make one of them look bad; or b) they want to keep town confused. Does it make sense, of is it too far fetched? I'd like to think that Barry was scum, but would a Maple really run around claiming an unbelievable role like he did? It's possible but it is rather complicated. I have a piece to that puzzle I'll reveal when I can.
MagPiesRUs Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 I have felt for days that the codes are a sort of BS non-helpful thing a Maple would suggest to appear helpful but really confuse the town. Your attitude towards Simon weirds me out too - here you call him out, but earlier you tried to pull him out of harm's way by not having him vote for a possible "vengeful tree" - which is a claim I feel obliged to believe, because if not wouldn't it just be a lynch against him for no real reason? It feels like you're trying to distant yourself but also protect him. I wasn't so much defending Simon as I was asking why William seemed so convinced he was scum. I found it odd that he was so convinced Simon was scum when the "lies" he accused him of weren't blatant lies at all, and were instead interpretations of William's behaviour. In contrast, it was strange that William was taking such a relaxed stance against Berty, whose story about Barry contradicted William's. Now that William has explained his conversation with Barry though, it makes sense that William and Berty could both be telling the truth. I have gone back and looked over Adelaide's activity over the last few days. It is still very questionable. She put a lot of effort into developing the codes, which SEEMS to have been genuine effort (she explained them at least 100 times to Simon!) but what have the codes really gotten us? It's not my fault the codes haven't given us much. Blame the people who haven't bothered/deliberately avoided following the plan for that. It sounds as if it's starting to help the stumps somewhat anyway. I could have sworn I've seen your name thrown around a few times as either a poke or suspicion but I looked back and saw the Nash seems a bit more popular than you since Adelaide voted against him two days in a row. That's gotta count for something. Wait, what? What does that count for? I only voted for him on Day Two, anyway.
Hinckley Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 More for Clem: N3947 3 pg. 2 post 12.1 N7446 3 pg. 2 post 12.3 N4569 3 pg. 5 post 17.1 (ignore first character name) N6464 3 pg. 11 post 2.2 N2678 3 pg. 2 post 7.1 N2121 the remaining living player who we apparently never mentioned
Hinckley Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 Let's start trying this out. This will be the key to verifying the cipher of the codes I just sent. N2398 claimed 2576 N6425 claimed 9918 N5655 claimed 3436 Right, OK? So N5477 is fishing for 8501 N2121 claimed 6225 N5288 claimed 6737 to N2678 Regarding a discussion we had in 2 p.4 post 11: N2398 claim 9918? because N5477 2576 Yes? or No? I think that claim 589 for N6425 Regarding a discussion we had 3 pg. 10 post 11. Yes or no?
Tamamono Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 I can't believe this game has turned into codebreakers.
fhomess Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 I can't believe this game has turned into codebreakers. Personally, I think it's kind of awesome that way. Back to Sammy's idea that Barry was the SK... I've gone around and around on this today, talking with various people, and I just don't see it. First, a clarification, though. Barry seems to only have contacted William and Berty. Bruce was informed indirectly through Berty. So... my conclusion now is that Barry was definitely scum. The final piece of the puzzle for me is Williams statement that Barry initially chose Clem as his target, and then changed it to Bobby and BOTH ended up dead. That all makes sense if Barry was scum and they can janitor anyone. Barry heard the night kills, knew he was going to die, decided to throw crazy role claims around to confuse people. The problem was with his targets. They both died, which suggests he knew they were both going to die. The other key to him not being the SK is... if he was the SK, then WTF? Why would he go on a bender like that? There's no logical reason for it. Even if you're Hazel and think crazy things about alignment reveals upon death that don't match the rules, there's no logical reason that he would've lost his mind like he did. So... assuming he's scum, what does that get us? Well, it gives a much stronger town read on Waldorf being an oak due to the way he brought up his suspicions yesterday. It means that at least one of William and Berty are oaks, too. He wouldn't have given his crazy role claim only to teammates. I have had strong suspicions on both of them, but so far, I wouldn't feel comfortable lynching either.
jimmynick Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 Lassie, it does seem bizarre that Barry would have claimed lots of things as an SK, and I'm still certain that he was scum, but: Barry heard the night kills, knew he was going to die, decided to throw crazy role claims around to confuse people. The problem was with his targets. They both died, which suggests he knew they were both going to die. How on earth would this work?
fhomess Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 How on earth would this work? If the scum can janitor anyone, then they have to be told who the night kills are in order to choose their janitor target. I checked with both William and Berty and they said the claim came before the night action deadline. Berty's claim was specific enough to put it about 4 hours before. Depending on when Alder takes his rest or if he's aiming to get the janitor action at the deadline, it's possible he told the scum in advance once most night actions were in. To me... it's the simplest explanation right now.
Hinckley Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 The final piece of the puzzle for me is Williams statement that Barry initially chose Clem as his target, and then changed it to Bobby and BOTH ended up dead. That all makes sense if Barry was scum and they can janitor anyone. Barry heard the night kills, knew he was going to die, decided to throw crazy role claims around to confuse people. The problem was with his targets. They both died, which suggests he knew they were both going to die. This, yes!
fhomess Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 I have gone back and looked over Adelaide's activity over the last few days. It is still very questionable. She put a lot of effort into developing the codes, which SEEMS to have been genuine effort (she explained them at least 100 times to Simon!) but what have the codes really gotten us? She's also been close to the hammer of a band wagon three times. Could easily be a scum pushing that final push, but seeming reluctant. I may vote for her. Were you just looking to find things to accuse Adelaide of? I went back and looked and Adelaide was not at all close to hammering on three bandwagons. She's been a part of only two of them. On the third one, Day 2, she cast her vote for you. You would think you'd remember that Adelaide is the only person so far who's voted for you.
MagPiesRUs Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 I don't think the maples would be told who was going to die while they're still planning night actions. If the janitor is told who will die, I would think they'd be told after the first 24 hours of night is over, giving them the final 24 hours of night to decide what to do. I'm not sure how helpful this is, but here's the number of lynchwagons each tree has joined. Those who voted for janitored Alastair are in brown: 3: Hinckley, Tamamono, Bob, Lego Spy, jamesn 2: Zepher, Calanon, TinyPiesRUs, Goliath, Dragonfire, badboytje88, fhomess 1: Fugazi, mostlytechnic (both only part of the Catarina bandwagon) 0: Scubacarrot
Hinckley Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 I don't think the maples would be told who was going to die while they're still planning night actions. If the janitor is told who will die, I would think they'd be told after the first 24 hours of night is over, giving them the final 24 hours of night to decide what to do. I didn't hear of any of this until after the Night Action submission deadline.
Hinckley Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 Peter Cedar seems to be riding that center line. He calls his activity Scum hunting but he hasn't brought up any suspicions from this hunt. He mostly fills posts with code and mechanics talk. I meant Jack Pine! Jack Pine is suspicious to me for riding that center line, etc... However, we should remember that Peter Cedar practices his posts in Word, which pinged me as well. His posts aren't all the involved. But as pointed out early, to metagame him, his similarly hard to read on either side. Were you just looking to find things to accuse Adelaide of? I went back and looked and Adelaide was not at all close to hammering on three bandwagons. She's been a part of only two of them. On the third one, Day 2, she cast her vote for you. You would think you'd remember that Adelaide is the only person so far who's voted for you. Although, I admit Nash is making some good points and some of his posts helped me figure out the logic of William's claim being true. However I find his actions a bit inconsistent. Not blatantly, but just in the Scum-slipping sort of way. Question: Do we think there is a way for the scum to appear as "oak" stumps? Could that be how they are balanced? Still no one has commented on what they might have to assist them in the place of our stumps. Some of the stumps have continued to ping me. If all deaths tomorrow show up Oak... I don't know. It might be a crazy theory. I hope it is. But I'm just trying to imagine what they might be able to do to counter-act our potential advantage (though the stumps haven't really proven much of an advantage so far in all honesty, so perhaps nothing)! This theory is pretty cooky. I admit to feeling the same fear. Nash and I even discussed it in private. Clearly Barry was janitored. I don't know why we're even discussing something else. This pinged me only because discussion of mechanics can really help work things out. Especially considering he was suggesting above that the stumps might still be Scum, some sort of reverse death miller. In one post he makes a crazy suggestion to foster discussion. In the next he tries to stop discussion. And yet, he discusses it later: The Barry situation seems pretty clear cut to me... though not easy to tell in either direction. Essentially there are two ways things could have fallen out, though I have no way to know which is correct: a) The scum CAN janitor. It seems almost certain that Barry was maple in that case. Before today, there was little indication that he was a player of particular prominence who would deserve to be janitored if he were oak, right? I can't imagine why they'd pick over, say, the lynch. b) The scum CAN'T janitor, and all maples/SKs are removed from the forest upon their death, not becoming oaks. In this case, he was probably the SK. The thing is, I find b both less and more believable. It's weird that we'd have to figure out removed=maple/SK, because... I don't know, that's not really a twist so much as the town has to sort of just figure out how results are revealed over a long time. Right? It doesn't seem as normal as a janitor. On the other hand, his claims seem to be concocted in a vacuum - how could his fellow maples possibly allow for him to make such crazy claims?! The point is there's literally no way to know! So we might as well all enjoy the sun while we can and focus instead on getting a lynch today. And then encourages people to give up trying to figure it out. Great idea. Let's stay confused. Also, I think any bomb claims are crazy. Are you curious about the remaining bomb claim then, because you haven't mentioned it. I have felt for days that the codes are a sort of BS non-helpful thing a Maple would suggest to appear helpful but really confuse the town. Your attitude towards Simon weirds me out too - here you call him out, but earlier you tried to pull him out of harm's way by not having him vote for a possible "vengeful tree" - which is a claim I feel obliged to believe, because if not wouldn't it just be a lynch against him for no real reason? It feels like you're trying to distant yourself but also protect him. I think it's time for Adelaide or Simon to go. I think many oaks agree with me. Stop voting people off for asterisks, starting getting real stuff done. Simon called on us yesterday to stop only focusing on those younger saplings and start to focus on people who know how to play this sort of game. I agree. The day is started with strong confident words when there's a conflict between me and William. He spent a good part of yesterday speaking against me as well and on day two. Yet, he ignores this vote entirely: My top suspicions now are Nash Ash for reasons I've already stated and once again trying to capitalize on a conflict between two other players. vote: Nash Ash (Zepher) And justifies his suspicion of Adelaide with this: I have gone back and looked over Adelaide's activity over the last few days. It is still very questionable. She put a lot of effort into developing the codes, which SEEMS to have been genuine effort (she explained them at least 100 times to Simon!) but what have the codes really gotten us? She's also been close to the hammer of a band wagon three times. Could easily be a scum pushing that final push, but seeming reluctant. I may vote for her. Why not vote for her then? The suspicion seems to have morphed to something new. It feels like Nash has taken advantage of the scrutiny I received from Sammy and William and when those naturally worked their way out, he backed off. Disappointed he couldn't latch onto someone else's misplaced suspicions. These are suspicions. I am not 100% confident and this is not backed up with any evidence from the Town block, unfortunately.
Hinckley Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 The big thing - why on earth did Barry claim anything to anyone? I don't remember him being a focus of any attention yesterday, at least until the very end. I also think Waldorf made a solid argument against Barry. I don't see the whole vote train changing tracks to lynch Barry today however, with so little time left. Additionally, I don't think Bobby is scum. His conversations today are too all over the place, sometimes giving up, etc. I can't see a scum doing that. They'd have help from other scum to guide responses to make more sense. So basically, I think he's too crazy to be scum But since there's already an abundance of votes on Larry, I'm ok with "wasting" mine on Barry. So: Vote: Barry Cherry (jluck) You don't remember him being the focus of any attention, but do you remember voting for him? This is really weird. You think the case Waldorf makes is so compelling you place your vote on Barry, but then today you don't remember him being the focus of any attention. Indeed. Let me translate this into Scum-speak, "Larry's lynched so I'll place a vote on a team mate to hopefully put some distance between us. " Ping a ding-ding. The more I think about this, the more compelling I find it. unvote: Nash Ash (Zepher) and vote: Jack Pine (mostlytechnic) The above discrepancy is just weird. Add that to the constant code talk and the plethora of janitor/was-Barry-SK-or-Scum? theories and he's starting to seem pretty Scummy to me. The plethora of theories could especially be used as a way to keep us from settling on the truth and keep us confused. So, tell us, were you super annoyed when Barry made such a ridiculous claim?
Dragonfire Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 The red seems to indicate that you believe Alastair and Barry are both scum? Why so sure on Alastair? I clearly stated that my personal belief is that there is no janitor, and the stumps of scum/neutrals are removed. I'm not 100% on Alastair, but that is what I think. And I think Barry was the SK. Maybe he was also covering his bases in case he was tracked. He was talking about killing people and being a passive bomb. I would guess he was concocting a claim that tells Townies "Don't kill me and in case I'm tracked or my target is watched". As a solid suspect after Waldorf accuse him, he probably figured he would be targeted. If he was Scum, he was their killer. snip Barry's claim was ill-advised. Who would allow such a sloppy and weird claim? I'm glad Berty brought it to Bruce's attention. Berty, did he ask you advice about who to kill? If so, what did you answer? I think you're right about a claim that would cover his bases. When I told Bruce about Barry's claim, Bruce asked me to tell Barry that the town block wanted him to kill William. Bruce then told me to tell Barry that the town block would kill him unless he killed Maggie. I told Barry that the block would kill him unless he killed Maggie. Barry said that he'd rather kill Bobby. b) The scum CAN'T janitor, and all maples/SKs are removed from the forest upon their death, not becoming oaks. In this case, he was probably the SK. I think it is this option. There is no point in maples/SKs becoming stumps, so the host balanced the stumps with not knowing the non-Town players' alignments. Well, would a PGO know if they had been set off for them to confirm with someone they trust? Is my logic sound there? If the Scum killed Clem and vig killed Bobby, then a PGO would've had to kill Berty, like Jack suggested. Unless one of the other victims was a bomb. Wouldn't that be funny? Perhaps we can get an answer, after all. Otherwise, who would've killed Berty? Without a passive kill trigger, there are three kills. I think it's worth looking over Alastair and Berty's posts, in case all Maples are taken from the forest and that's the balance to the bombs. And by bombs, I of course meant stumps. I think you mean Barry rather than Berty here. Also, you seem extremely dismissive of the existence of a SK. I hope the first point has been sufficiently adressed by the fact that I sent pms to people stating I was going to try to get myself lynched to kill you, as a form of security. I said this: Did you just claim vig to me? He responded with: Not vig per se, this game is more intricate than some people realize. Or something to that effect. He did not claim neutrality at any point to me. I did not press him further, not when he apparantly changed his target to Bobby either. I figured he was just a vig variant, as I've said before. To be fair, the way he worded that does make you immediately think neutral. I don't know. I can't lynch Barry. He's dead as dicks, blown up, even. Even if he was a neutral or something. I can lynch you. It changes nothing. I am not trying to get lynched, that plan is out of the window, you didn't want to anymore, remember? A vengeful scum would basically mean a scum with no role other than being a slight unavoidable punishment to the town (presuming protection in the night doesn't work and there is no rolecop). It's weird. I never really thought about it, but scum vengefuls are not really a thing that happens. Also as a general rule, scum usually has one way to take someone out. I agree that a vengeful scum is unlikely. I also think that Barry was lying to multiple people. He implied that he was bomb. I said: Did you just claim bomb to me? He responded with: Not bomb per se, but I have chosen to interpret my role as bomb. See the pattern? But he did explain his whole role to me. It still worked out because you knew what I meant. I have been doing that but being unsure of who to vote for at the current time is a crime? Still, you, Waldorf, and the real Nash are of the few people with names that have been thrown around quite a bit. But yes, I will have my vote up with some reasoning behind it, as usual, eventually. This is scummy. You only want to vote for Waldorf and Nash because their names have been brought up? This also looks like you're saying, "oh well, it's a real bother having to come up with some fake reasons for joining a townie's bandwagon". That's another good theory, but why would scum janitor the SK, if Barry was really janitored? I don't think there is a janitor. I thought the town block knew who the vig was... Someone can possibly confirm the target of the vig. Why do we need a PGO again? Isn't it possible that Barry killed Clem or Bobby, the vig took out Barry, and scum killed the third player?This may look like a whole lot of idle theories, but it may actually be important to know with a degree of certainty whether Barry was scum or neutral (SK). His interactions with some other trees are being scutinized and perhaps that the reason he was janitored was to prevent us from drawing some obvious conclusions... More on this later. I am pretty sure there is a vig, since Bruce told me to tell Bobby that the block would have him killed unless he killed Maggie. That implies that there is a living vig. I think that Barry killed Bobby, Vig killed Barry and Scum killed Clem.
Walter Kovacs Posted February 14, 2015 Author Posted February 14, 2015 Voting Update: Peter Cedar (badboytje88) - 2 (Dragonfire, Bob) Hazel Hazelnut (Goliath) - 1 (Jamesn) Jack Pine (mostlytechnic) - 1 (Hinckley) Simon Persimmon (Hinckley) - 1 (Scubacarrot) There are 34 Hours remaining in DAy 4. It takes 8 votes to lynch.
Dragonfire Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 N2121 the remaining living player who we apparently never mentioned This sounds a lot like you know the role of every single player. Back to Sammy's idea that Barry was the SK... I've gone around and around on this today, talking with various people, and I just don't see it. First, a clarification, though. Barry seems to only have contacted William and Berty. Bruce was informed indirectly through Berty. So... my conclusion now is that Barry was definitely scum. The final piece of the puzzle for me is Williams statement that Barry initially chose Clem as his target, and then changed it to Bobby and BOTH ended up dead. That all makes sense if Barry was scum and they can janitor anyone. Barry heard the night kills, knew he was going to die, decided to throw crazy role claims around to confuse people. The problem was with his targets. They both died, which suggests he knew they were both going to die. When Barry claimed to me, he mentioned that he didn't care who knew about his claim since he would win if he survived to Day 4. I think he may have been telling the truth here. Let's say he was a SK whose win condition was surviving to Day 4. He went all-out last night to avoid being killed by making up some crazy role-claims to cover his bases. But he was killed eventually by the vig. Barry never mentioned Clem to me. In fact, he told me Clem was rather towny. If the scum can janitor anyone, then they have to be told who the night kills are in order to choose their janitor target. I checked with both William and Berty and they said the claim came before the night action deadline. Berty's claim was specific enough to put it about 4 hours before. Depending on when Alder takes his rest or if he's aiming to get the janitor action at the deadline, it's possible he told the scum in advance once most night actions were in. To me... it's the simplest explanation right now. I also told Bruce about Barry's role, roughly 2 hours before the deadline. That may have given Bruce time to tell the vig and the vig time to send in the kill on Barry. I don't think the maples would be told who was going to die while they're still planning night actions. If the janitor is told who will die, I would think they'd be told after the first 24 hours of night is over, giving them the final 24 hours of night to decide what to do. I'm not sure how helpful this is, but here's the number of lynchwagons each tree has joined. Those who voted for janitored Alastair are in brown: 3: Hinckley, Tamamono, Bob, Lego Spy, jamesn 2: Zepher, Calanon, TinyPiesRUs, Goliath, Dragonfire, badboytje88, fhomess 1: Fugazi, mostlytechnic (both only part of the Catarina bandwagon) 0: Scubacarrot Hmm. Doesn't really tell us anything special. Barry hammered Alastair. Yes. Peter hammered both Catarina and Larry.
Scaevola Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 Let's start trying this out. This will be the key to verifying the cipher of the codes I just sent. N2398 claimed 2576 N6425 claimed 9918 N5655 claimed 3436 Right, OK? So N5477 is fishing for 8501 N2121 claimed 6225 N5288 claimed 6737 to N2678 Regarding a discussion we had in 2 p.4 post 11: N2398 claim 9918? because N5477 2576 Yes? or No? I think that claim 589 for N6425 Regarding a discussion we had 3 pg. 10 post 11. Yes or no? You didn't send me enough codes I'm afraid for all the trees who are/have participated The first two you sent me could also use clarification as there are multiple names in the posts
mostlytechnic Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 This is going to sound crazy coming from me, but I wouldn't advocate killing William at night. I do believe that Barry was Scum. If that's the case then him appealing to William makes it less likely that they are on the same team. Way less likely...unless it's WIFOM. But, thinking through everything and getting consistent answers from everyone involved, my suspicions of William are much lower. Wow, a first (in recent times at least) of a fighting pair getting over it rather than forcing one or the other to the death? Wow! I could have sworn I've seen your name thrown around a few times as either a poke or suspicion but I looked back and saw the Nash seems a bit more popular than you since Adelaide voted against him two days in a row. That's gotta count for something. Also, for your information, any reason is better than none, must I tell you. Unless you'd prefer I don't justify my reason, which would make things so much easier. Sounds pretty lazy, like you can't keep anyone straight outside your scum team. Hm. This pinged me only because discussion of mechanics can really help work things out. Especially considering he was suggesting above that the stumps might still be Scum, some sort of reverse death miller. In one post he makes a crazy suggestion to foster discussion. In the next he tries to stop discussion. Hm. So when Nash doesn't want to talk mechanics, it's scummy, but when I do it it's all sorts of scummy to you? And you were all upset about me pushing codes and then today you start making up a whole new code system because suddenly it's a good idea? Make up your mind and quit accusing me of being scum because I'm trying to help! You don't remember him being the focus of any attention, but do you remember voting for him? This is really weird. You think the case Waldorf makes is so compelling you place your vote on Barry, but then today you don't remember him being the focus of any attention. Indeed. Let me translate this into Scum-speak, "Larry's lynched so I'll place a vote on a team mate to hopefully put some distance between us. " Go read what you quoted me as saying again - I said "I don't remember him being a focus of any attention yesterday, at least until the very end." UNTIL THE VERY END OF THE DAY WHEN I VOTED FOR HIM. I said he wasn't a focus for MOST OF THE DAY EXCEPT THE VERY END. No inconsistencies there except for where you're twisting my words. But my point still stands. He got a little heat from one good analysis of him and one vote from me. Why was that enough for him to run around making crazy claims during the night? The more I think about it, I think I like the theory that he was scum and they DO have a janitor (sorry, I can't buy that maples/3rd party are not revealed. That goes back to not being able to trust the game mod and I can't buy that). Having a janitor would mean they get the kill list early. Now, for him to be making claims before the deadline would require that they got the list even more before the deadline - can anyone confirm WHEN any vig kill was submitted to Alder? If it was early, he may have sent the list on to the maples early so they could make their pics and try to start the day quicker (especially since he posted he'd be travelling, might have wanted to push things ahead a bit) and that gave Barry time to spread some crazy - not thinking it'd save him since he already knew he was dead, but using a loophole to PM before it was daybreak and spread crazy to infect our discussions today. Combine that with a janitor action, and looks like the scum have done a good job of derailing a bunch of the day!
Hinckley Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 I think you mean Barry rather than Berty here. Also, you seem extremely dismissive of the existence of a SK. I've done nothing but promote the idea. Since I believe Barry was Scum that didn't trigger a passive kill, that could only mean there were three kills. This sounds a lot like you know the role of every single player. These are only names. The first two you sent me could also use clarification as there are multiple names in the posts That's what the .# is for. If it's 5.3 it's post five, third name mentioned. Why aren't people voting?? You didn't send me enough codes I'm afraid for all the trees who are/have participated I made codes for people I needed to talk to you about. The process is time-consuming. Hm. So when Nash doesn't want to talk mechanics, it's scummy, but when I do it it's all sorts of scummy to you? And you were all upset about me pushing codes and then today you start making up a whole new code system because suddenly it's a good idea? Make up your mind and quit accusing me of being scum because I'm trying to help! I never got upset with you from "pushing" codes and I was never against them until they got Daved. What are you talking about? I unvoted Nash to vote for you. And one of the things I had just pointed out about him was trying to confuse issue of the janitor and the SK, etc. So, yes, I think you're both Scummy for it. For being so active, you haven't read everything very thoroughly.
Yzalirk Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 Vote: Jack Pine (mostlytechnic) I feel that Jack tries a little too hard to act innocent. Maybe I'm paranoid, maybe I'm not. He claims that he tries to be helpful with the thought of lazy = scum, which is not helpful and may contribute to the lynchings of the innocence. In what way does this help? Honestly, I have no frigging clue. He was also pretty worried about people starting a bandwagon on him on Day Three, so here's exhibit A; ^^^ What he said. That's why we need EVERYONE to claim so the stumps can compile and see if anything doesn't make sense. (and don't you all DARE start a bandwagon on me for using carets!!!) It's pretty self-explanatory, if you ask me. Why would an Oak be worried about a bandwagon on him for posting his codes when voting wasn't even open yet? It seems rather odd. Let's take a peek at exhibit B; And to everyone - remember that codes can also be used to mislead. For example, I could say hey Catarina, Joe claimed #43 to me in a PM. That could mean something, or it could be total crap and the stumps would know it because I never gave Catarina "43" as a code for anything. Like I suggested earlier, make a list of statemens where only 1 is true and the rest use fake codes so we can say things without the maples gleaning any hints from it. That's an interesting thought. He's also claimed to have sent everyone codes as well, which I don't know about everyone else but yes, I did get codes from him. When Jack says this, though, could he try to pull some Tom Foolery here and try to confuse the town? The code system has been a bit confusing to some, which I agree, but Jack was the only one to bring this up. This shouldn't dictate that he's scum but perhaps he's tried to trick people. Also, why send codes to those you DON'T trust? And let's take a final look at exhibit C; Seriously, why are some of you so dead set against the codes? Here's what SHOULD be happening, if everyone had participated. Today, everyone claims their role to the stumps. Then they can look at the list. Hey, there's one person claiming blocker. We probably do have a blocker, so that's probably true. There's 1 person claiming vig, so that's probably true too. Etc. They could then guide the inveistigator to look into the vanillas, since that's probably where the scum are hiding. Narrow down the list of investigator targets significantly. Ditto for blocker, protector, whatever else we have. And frankly, tell the vig to target any of the vanilla. Either we'd lose a vanilla, or we'd get a maple. Worth the risk if you can narrow down the list by a third or so (AND know that the PRs are not being targeted), since we have a number advantage. I just don't get why people don't see the HUGE advantage we have, since on day 2 and day 3 we already have a group of absolutely confirmed oaks. That is massive, and so I know in my gut the maples must have a big counter advantage to balance. That means if we're not using our weapons correctly, we'll be dead. And the maples will get all the sunlight because we'll just be decomposing fertilizer for them. Or maybe furniture somewhere, I'm not sure what the lumberjacks do with our bodies... I don't know if this has alerted anyone but it sure has to me. Firstly, who claimed to be the vigilante? I have seen anyone claim that responsibility and I think that the vigilante would have been an easy target had he/she done so. Jack has also clearly said that the vigilante should attack people who claim to be a vanilla and if worst comes to worst, a vanilla is dead. That is terrible for the town. It thins out the numbers of Oaks! Also, if I claimed right now that I were the vigilante, would you believe? I honestly wouldn't. Making a role claim doesn't necessarily mean it's true. That's why I vote for Jack. I can't say I'm proud or extremely confident in it but him wanting to kill of potential innocent townies is just a terrible idea. We are done enough townies as it is.
Hinckley Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 Vig targets Night One: Buck Night Two: Agnes Night Three: Bobby Vote: Jack Pine (mostlytechnic) If you are Scum picking the first Town name that you like and then justifying it, I'm much less confident in my suspicion about Jack.
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