Hinckley Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 You didn't send me enough codes I'm afraid for all the trees who are/have participated The first two you sent me could also use clarification as there are multiple names in the posts And they're only the living people. So, the first one is 1.1 and second is 4.3. I'm so sorry. You must be going nuts. We should all send name codes out next. Regarding a discussion we had 3 pg. 10 post 11. Yes or no? We've decided Yes. Can you acknowledge this?
Yzalirk Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 If you are Scum picking the first Town name that you like and then justifying it, I'm much less confident in my suspicion about Jack. Nope, I'm not. The third comment I quoted is what really made me make my decision. Unless you completely ignored all that said and are in cahoots with Jack, than I can see why you wouldn't have a slight suspicion of him.
Hinckley Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 Nope, I'm not. The third comment I quoted is what really made me make my decision. Unless you completely ignored all that said and are in cahoots with Jack, than I can see why you wouldn't have a slight suspicion of him. I voted for him. That's an interesting thought. He's also claimed to have sent everyone codes as well, which I don't know about everyone else but yes, I did get codes from him. When Jack says this, though, could he try to pull some Tom Foolery here and try to confuse the town? The code system has been a bit confusing to some, which I agree, but Jack was the only one to bring this up. This shouldn't dictate that he's scum but perhaps he's tried to trick people. Also, why send codes to those you DON'T trust? And let's take a final look at exhibit C; Yes, I did just skim your post earlier. This post about misleading did ping me as well. I read it several times concluded he must've meant misleading the Scum? But how would Catarina know that? Wouldn't any stump that was directly told a code come out and say "This isn't a code you gave me." Is he excusing the behavior of giving a fake code to Scum-hunting?
Yzalirk Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 I voted for him. Yes, I did just skim your post earlier. This post about misleading did ping me as well. I read it several times concluded he must've meant misleading the Scum? But how would Catarina know that? Wouldn't any stump that was directly told a code come out and say "This isn't a code you gave me." Is he excusing the behavior of giving a fake code to Scum-hunting? Oh yeah, I did not see that... Well it's up to the Stumps to come out and say that. It's possible they just don't care. Personally, I think Jack is excusing the behavior since he did claim to have sent everyone codes and I'm sure some codes must be BS to simply confuse both Oaks and Maples. I'm also not really sure how that would contribute to finding scum.
Hinckley Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 I don't know if this has alerted anyone but it sure has to me. Firstly, who claimed to be the vigilante? I have seen anyone claim that responsibility and I think that the vigilante would have been an easy target had he/she done so. Jack has also clearly said that the vigilante should attack people who claim to be a vanilla and if worst comes to worst, a vanilla is dead. That is terrible for the town. It thins out the numbers of Oaks! Also, if I claimed right now that I were the vigilante, would you believe? I honestly wouldn't. Making a role claim doesn't necessarily mean it's true. This actually makes sense from a certain perspective. But the sense it would make is for us to focus our lynches and suspicion on those who claimed Vanilla. They don't need to be guided by the stumps since the codes were revealed publicly and Lauren Daved the vanillas. Focusing on that being the vig's responsibility is a little off, though. Killing at night is not our only tool (more of a Scum PerspectiveTM). Sorry I blew off your post before. You make valid points. I'm also not confident our votes are in the right place. I would feel somewhat comfortable moving back to Nash or going with Mute Maggie. My original suspicion on Day One was Maggie being persistent about liking syrup hurting trees. It was a faint ping but it reminded me of early days of EB when characters (like me in Roman Mafia or the toast guy in Noir) thought that we could accuse on things like character intent. Maggie seems noobish and hasn't done anything to instill any confidence since that first ping. Chester, are you also mute?
jimmynick Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 This pinged me only because discussion of mechanics can really help work things out. Especially considering he was suggesting above that the stumps might still be Scum, some sort of reverse death miller. In one post he makes a crazy suggestion to foster discussion. In the next he tries to stop discussion. Talking about codes is scummy but talking about janitors isn't? Hmmm. I am pretty sure there is a vig, since Bruce told me to tell Bobby that the block would have him killed unless he killed Maggie. That implies that there is a living vig. I think that Barry killed Bobby, Vig killed Barry and Scum killed Clem. Unless Bobby killed Maggie? Do you mean Barry? I've been so confused over the Barry thing all day today. Go read what you quoted me as saying again - I said "I don't remember him being a focus of any attention yesterday, at least until the very end." UNTIL THE VERY END OF THE DAY WHEN I VOTED FOR HIM. I said he wasn't a focus for MOST OF THE DAY EXCEPT THE VERY END. No inconsistencies there except for where you're twisting my words. But my point still stands. He got a little heat from one good analysis of him and one vote from me. Why was that enough for him to run around making crazy claims during the night? The more I think about it, I think I like the theory that he was scum and they DO have a janitor (sorry, I can't buy that maples/3rd party are not revealed. That goes back to not being able to trust the game mod and I can't buy that). Having a janitor would mean they get the kill list early. Now, for him to be making claims before the deadline would require that they got the list even more before the deadline - can anyone confirm WHEN any vig kill was submitted to Alder? If it was early, he may have sent the list on to the maples early so they could make their pics and try to start the day quicker (especially since he posted he'd be travelling, might have wanted to push things ahead a bit) and that gave Barry time to spread some crazy - not thinking it'd save him since he already knew he was dead, but using a loophole to PM before it was daybreak and spread crazy to infect our discussions today. Combine that with a janitor action, and looks like the scum have done a good job of derailing a bunch of the day! Sound interesting. I don't know if this has alerted anyone but it sure has to me. Firstly, who claimed to be the vigilante? I have seen anyone claim that responsibility and I think that the vigilante would have been an easy target had he/she done so. Jack has also clearly said that the vigilante should attack people who claim to be a vanilla and if worst comes to worst, a vanilla is dead. That is terrible for the town. It thins out the numbers of Oaks! Also, if I claimed right now that I were the vigilante, would you believe? I honestly wouldn't. Making a role claim doesn't necessarily mean it's true.
Lego Spy Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 Chester, are you also mute? No, I've just been sleeping for eight hours. (Tru fact tho) Anyhow, I'm not sure how I feel about Jack. He doesn't seem to be playing the same way he was the last game. (Town) His claiming someone claimed vigilante, which obviously never happened in thread, is what has pinged me the most.
Scaevola Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 Let's start trying this out. This will be the key to verifying the cipher of the codes I just sent. N2398 claimed 2576 N6425 claimed 9918 N5655 claimed 3436 Right, OK? So N5477 is fishing for 8501 N2121 claimed 6225 N5288 claimed 6737 to N2678 Regarding a discussion we had in 2 p.4 post 11: N2398 claim 9918? because N5477 2576 Yes? or No? I think that claim 589 for N6425 Regarding a discussion we had 3 pg. 10 post 11. Yes or no? Yes I can confirm the first three. I'd say no for the first discussion. And yes for the second.
Hinckley Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 I don't think that we'll have time to coordinate this with Clem and obviously, my name code cipher isn't foolproof and we're running out of time. I'm not sure what Clem has told the stumps. We had a unique situation with Night Action claims behind the scenes. We didn't want to reveal it but now we can since we have one of us on the stump side. So, regarding the complications with the investigator: There are two of them. Bruce and I were investigated on Night One by two different players and claimed to each other almost simultaneously. We tricked the investigators into targeting each other, telling them they were checking the bomb claim. Neither is lying, we know. One is dead, Clem, and the other was investigated by Clem. They independently confirmed their roles were worded the same way and the remaining investigator has done something no other Townie could do. We kept this secret for obvious reasons. Or if not obvious, because we didn't want the Scum to know if we did have two investigators and Bruce and I wanted to see what results they would give us. If one was Scum we wanted to string them along. Only when we were sure did we bring them together. Everyone make sure to thank Lauren for getting the other one killed. As far as having two, we know it's not standard and have been trying to think what it might be balancing. One thought was that it's balancing the stumps that are removed from the forest. It would give us a better chance to know an affiliation before it's lynched to verify theories of all non-Oak trees are removed from the forest. It could be a balance to some other type of role, a framer or tailor. We're also aware that two investigators sometimes means one is insane or naive. The remaining one got the correct result on Clem so he's not insane. We were planning on having them target the same player tonight, but now that plan has been thwarted. So, I asked the Town Block not to claim or to claim vanilla to the stumps. You've met the stumps, I was afraid that a couple of them would freak out. There was a lot of discussion about this and we never reached a conclusion, so I'm not sure what Clem has told the stumps. But I'm sure if this sounds off from anything he has told you, he will verify that it is true. His claiming someone claimed vigilante, which obviously never happened in thread, is what has pinged me the most. This is the best example of word-twisting I have ever seen. He's presenting a hypothetical situation in which the vig claimed to the stumps. Why do you want Jack lynched so badly that you would deliberately twist his words? Yes I can confirm the first three. I'd say no for the first discussion. And yes for the second. Well, good because I already went ahead with the second one. You understand the point of the first one? 589 N6425. Do you think the stumps would have a coronary? Is that it? And it would also 1783 the Scum 9918. I don't know if this has alerted anyone but it sure has to me. Firstly, who claimed to be the vigilante? I have seen anyone claim that responsibility and I think that the vigilante would have been an easy target had he/she done so. Jack has also clearly said that the vigilante should attack people who claim to be a vanilla and if worst comes to worst, a vanilla is dead. That is terrible for the town. It thins out the numbers of Oaks! Also, if I claimed right now that I were the vigilante, would you believe? I honestly wouldn't. Making a role claim doesn't necessarily mean it's true. Ah, yes. You've also blatantly twisted Jack's words. Bolding a hypothetical out of context is terribly misleading. unvote: Jack Pine (mostlytechnic) I don't like the people jumping on his wagon. Sorry to keep re-voting today. All I know is who not to lynch. If we end the day without a lynch that will be annoying but it will give us more time. It's interesting the bandwagons that didn't form with the first votes cast. Yes I can confirm the first three. I'd say no for the first discussion. And yes for the second. By the way, I super love you for deciphering all of that crap. Clem, can you (not asking for names) tell me (mix it in with a list of vanillas) what other roles we have or what we may have lost? I'm curious because if we're lacking other roles that might balance out two investigators as well. Who hasn't claimed codes to the stumps yet? Can you guys tell us that?
Lego Spy Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 This is the best example of word-twisting I have ever seen. He's presenting a hypothetical situation in which the vig claimed to the stumps. Why do you want Jack lynched so badly that you would deliberately twist his words? I didn't realize. I skimmed over his post and thought he was saying someone had claimed vigilante. Also, I never said I wanted him lynched really bad...
Hinckley Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 I didn't realize. I skimmed over his post and thought he was saying someone had claimed vigilante. Also, I never said I wanted him lynched really bad... Twisting someone's words indicates desperation. I guess lazy makes sense too... For now, I'm back to this: vote: Nash Ash (Zepher) I'm surprised Hazel hasn't gotten more votes with all the suspicion that has been raised around her. Wasn't she in that debacle with Catarina and Alastair at the beginning?
Hinckley Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 After our discussions and knowing the vig targeted Bobby, I'm assuming Barry was Scum. So, if that's true, these posts are interesting: Millers should always claim day 1, you're right to do so. With a bit more experience, you'll notice millers always claim, usually in their first post. While it's risky, it's necessary. The alternative would be an investigation and guaranteed lynch. From private conversations I've gathered that he was caught off guard with the miller role and wasn't familiar with how to best handle it. He wanted to get advice before doing something that would hurt his reputation. He loves to defend Berty. He even makes an excuse for him not claiming in his first post in the guise of a wise Mafia lesson. Why is everyone so educated on Millers? I had no idea there was a specific protocol until Jack told me and Barry and Lassie seem to advocate the idea as well. Yes, it's a post on Mafiawiki, but wow, one year off and everyone gets all educated on weird roles. Have millers been common in recent games? They weren't very common in my day. Where's my cane? Bruce, I think we already discussed why this isn't a fair question. Would you ask this if they were alive? And honestly, why do you want to know? If you're oak, why does this matter other than to satisfy curiosity? However, if you're maple...this question is very, VERY important to you. This pinged me at the time and all the subsequent times I read it. Bruce was suggesting claiming to the stumps in public. What had been discussed as unfair was everyone PMing claims to the stumps. This seems like remnants of a Scum "stump-gripe-fest". I had said I thought PMing claims to Lauren would break the game. Discussion around communicating with the stumps in public was gaining positive traction. Barry didn't notice. But Berty brought the information about Barry's weird claim to Bruce. So, that doesn't mean he's Scummy, does it? I found it odd that Berty didn't come to me first to tell me there was a second claim for bomb. Why go to Bruce when we had already discussed the bomb claim in private? I think it's possible the Scum needed a valid way to get this information to the Town block without seeming obvious. Perhaps, Berty's "concern" was a veiled attempt to warn the Town block that Barry blows up if targeted for a kill and that he has a sudden and new kill action in case he is tracked or caught by a watcher. I'm suddenly very interested in hearing Berty's version of all of this. When did Barry bring this info to you? Good thing you're here reading this right now. Weird, Berty left. Speaking further of Berty, Bruce told me that Berty came to him because Bruce is part of the Town block and Berty thought that Barry might be the Serial Killer. Something smells faintly like megablocks to me. According to William, Barry told him about his "role" because William had PMed him about our deal to lynch him with me as hammer. That's an organic reason to have a conversation. Berty, what brought up Barry's role in your conversation?
Zepher Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 It's not my fault the codes haven't given us much. Blame the people who haven't bothered/deliberately avoided following the plan for that. It sounds as if it's starting to help the stumps somewhat anyway. I know. It's the reason I haven't placed a vote for you. The codes ping me, and your behavior over-all pings me, but it seems like the codes were a genuine effort to help the town. It's possible that it's something for a scum to hide behind... but that's not a good enough reason to vote for someone, and is, as you said, not really your fault. I feel very much like Simon. I just have some people I'm not super confident on voting for, and that's it. This theory is pretty cooky. I admit to feeling the same fear. Nash and I even discussed it in private. Hey, I didn't clog up the thread with it. I don't feel bad for discussing crazy theories. This pinged me only because discussion of mechanics can really help work things out. Especially considering he was suggesting above that the stumps might still be Scum, some sort of reverse death miller. In one post he makes a crazy suggestion to foster discussion. In the next he tries to stop discussion. I know. I should have worded it better. Discussion is good, of mechanics as well as of suspicious activity. I found any (prolonged) discussion of Barry's claims to be ludicrous because they were clearly farfetched insanity. And yet, he discusses it later: Again, should have worded it better to begin with. The day is started with strong confident words when there's a conflict between me and William. He spent a good part of yesterday speaking against me as well and on day two. Yet, he ignores this vote entirely: I still absolutely don't trust you. I won't until I have a reason to, and I have no reason to yet. Why not vote for her then? The suspicion seems to have morphed to something new. It feels like Nash has taken advantage of the scrutiny I received from Sammy and William and when those naturally worked their way out, he backed off. Disappointed he couldn't latch onto someone else's misplaced suspicions. These are suspicions. I am not 100% confident and this is not backed up with any evidence from the Town block, unfortunately. Boo. Latched on to Sammy and William's scrutiny? Heck no! I've been accusing you since... He spent a good part of yesterday speaking against me as well and on day two. Oh, since the last two days as well? So... not starting today and trying to "latch on". I don't think William is a Maple. I don't trust you or Bruce. Adelaide still tickles me a little, but not enough to really warrant a vote. Maggie and Sue won't talk. Berty claimed Miller randomly at the end of Day One for no discernible reason. Chester spouts nothingness. It's a bit of a cloudy game for me, so far. I don't feel super confident voting for anyone. Even those who's play style has frustrated me insanely (Maggie, Hazel) are impossible for me to suss out - either inexperienced Oaks or very quiet Maples. I can just keep bringing my suspicions forward as they arise.
jimmynick Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 So, regarding the complications with the investigator: There are two of them. Bruce and I were investigated on Night One by two different players and claimed to each other almost simultaneously. We tricked the investigators into targeting each other, telling them they were checking the bomb claim. Neither is lying, we know. One is dead, Clem, and the other was investigated by Clem. They independently confirmed their roles were worded the same way and the remaining investigator has done something no other Townie could do. We kept this secret for obvious reasons. Or if not obvious, because we didn't want the Scum to know if we did have two investigators and Bruce and I wanted to see what results they would give us. If one was Scum we wanted to string them along. Only when we were sure did we bring them together. Everyone make sure to thank Lauren for getting the other one killed. You're sure the other guy is an Oak? I don't think William is a Maple. I don't trust you or Bruce. Adelaide still tickles me a little, but not enough to really warrant a vote. Maggie and Sue won't talk. Berty claimed Miller randomly at the end of Day One for no discernible reason. Chester spouts nothingness. It's a bit of a cloudy game for me, so far. I don't feel super confident voting for anyone. Even those who's play style has frustrated me insanely (Maggie, Hazel) are impossible for me to suss out - either inexperienced Oaks or very quiet Maples. I can just keep bringing my suspicions forward as they arise. I wouldn't really call Hazel "quiet".
Duvors Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 Unless Bobby killed Maggie? Do you mean Barry? I've been so confused over the Barry thing all day today. Well I really don't think he's talking about me.
Hinckley Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 You're sure the other guy is an Oak? I am. He/she was investigated by Clem. There's a possibility of Godfather or maybe he was tailored, but other NA results show us it's highly unlikely he is a Maple.
Zepher Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 I wouldn't really call Hazel "quiet". Good point. Basically their play styles seem terrible regardless of their side, is my point. Do you believe that Hazel is a maple?
Hinckley Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 I don't think William is a Maple. I don't trust you or Bruce. I don't think William is either. I've just given you a lot of information to base trust or mistrust of me or Bruce off of and yet you only respond to the accusations against you. I've been highly suspicious of you since you first starting being suspicious of me because I thought you were onto the fact that I was lying about when I was investigated. It seemed like you knew I was lying but couldn't prove it. So I thought maybe you and Sammy (and later William) were Scum and I had been framed on Night Two. Your behavior has continued to ping me since.
Zepher Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 I don't think William is either. I've just given you a lot of information to base trust or mistrust of me or Bruce off of and yet you only respond to the accusations against you. I've been highly suspicious of you since you first starting being suspicious of me because I thought you were onto the fact that I was lying about when I was investigated. It seemed like you knew I was lying but couldn't prove it. So I thought maybe you and Sammy (and later William) were Scum and I had been framed on Night Two. Your behavior has continued to ping me since. Look, I don't mean to be rude, but I don't think you really have any case against me. What do you mean I knew you were lying? Were you lying? I was just trying to figure out what the heck you two were talking about because the order of events didn't make even a little bit of sense and you were asking us all to trust you on it, but you refused to answer, so that was my answer in a lot of ways! Also, if you had been framed on Night Two... wasn't that the night you were cleared? So how even would that have happened if you were cleared...? Are you saying now that you weren't cleared then? This is exactly what I'm talking about. I don't only respond to accusations against me. I've spoken up against many people who have never accused me. I'm going to talk against people if they accuse me or not! Because quite frankly that's their concern, not mine. My concern is catching the Maples!
Hinckley Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 Look, I don't mean to be rude, but I don't think you really have any case against me. What do you mean I knew you were lying? Were you lying? I was just trying to figure out what the heck you two were talking about because the order of events didn't make even a little bit of sense and you were asking us all to trust you on it, but you refused to answer, so that was my answer in a lot of ways! Also, if you had been framed on Night Two... wasn't that the night you were cleared? So how even would that have happened if you were cleared...? Are you saying now that you weren't cleared then? This is exactly what I'm talking about. You need to go back and read what I said. Bruce and I were both cleared Night One. We announced Bruce first because my investigator kept repeating "Good thing you're an Oak." It pinged me and we thought if one of them was Scum it was that one. I announced Bruce since he was under scrutiny and didn't want him to have to announce it in a vacuum, which wouldn't help quell the suspicions. We announced me the second day to give an investigation result because we couldn't yet explain to everyone that we had to trick them into targeting each other. I mean, seriously, did you even read what I posted? I just answered all of your questions you've had for days and you didn't even bother to read it or you're being willfully ignorant.
Zepher Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 I mean, seriously, did you even read what I posted? I just answered all of your questions you've had for days and you didn't even bother to read it or you're being willfully ignorant. Apparently not. Did you really post all that information earlier today. It sounds crazy to me. Two investigators... but, on the other hand... I mean, it'd be crazier to claim that if it weren't true. So fine, I guess I have to trust you and Bruce. And I stick by my trust of William. That's four people I won't vote for today. Maybe we'll have to do this process of elimination, but I'm at least getting closer.
Hinckley Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 I admit it's probably the fact that I just post so freaking much. Here is the original post: I don't think that we'll have time to coordinate this with Clem and obviously, my name code cipher isn't foolproof and we're running out of time. I'm not sure what Clem has told the stumps. We had a unique situation with Night Action claims behind the scenes. We didn't want to reveal it but now we can since we have one of us on the stump side. So, regarding the complications with the investigator: There are two of them. Bruce and I were investigated on Night One by two different players and claimed to each other almost simultaneously. We tricked the investigators into targeting each other, telling them they were checking the bomb claim. Neither is lying, we know. One is dead, Clem, and the other was investigated by Clem. They independently confirmed their roles were worded the same way and the remaining investigator has done something no other Townie could do. We kept this secret for obvious reasons. Or if not obvious, because we didn't want the Scum to know if we did have two investigators and Bruce and I wanted to see what results they would give us. If one was Scum we wanted to string them along. Only when we were sure did we bring them together. Everyone make sure to thank Lauren for getting the other one killed. As far as having two, we know it's not standard and have been trying to think what it might be balancing. One thought was that it's balancing the stumps that are removed from the forest. It would give us a better chance to know an affiliation before it's lynched to verify theories of all non-Oak trees are removed from the forest. It could be a balance to some other type of role, a framer or tailor. We're also aware that two investigators sometimes means one is insane or naive. The remaining one got the correct result on Clem so he's not insane. We were planning on having them target the same player tonight, but now that plan has been thwarted. So, I asked the Town Block not to claim or to claim vanilla to the stumps. You've met the stumps, I was afraid that a couple of them would freak out. There was a lot of discussion about this and we never reached a conclusion, so I'm not sure what Clem has told the stumps. But I'm sure if this sounds off from anything he has told you, he will verify that it is true.
Fugazi Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 Yes. Crap. Back to Sammy's idea that Barry was the SK... I've gone around and around on this today, talking with various people, and I just don't see it. First, a clarification, though. Barry seems to only have contacted William and Berty. Bruce was informed indirectly through Berty. So... my conclusion now is that Barry was definitely scum. The final piece of the puzzle for me is Williams statement that Barry initially chose Clem as his target, and then changed it to Bobby and BOTH ended up dead. That all makes sense if Barry was scum and they can janitor anyone. Barry heard the night kills, knew he was going to die, decided to throw crazy role claims around to confuse people. The problem was with his targets. They both died, which suggests he knew they were both going to die. The other key to him not being the SK is... if he was the SK, then WTF? Why would he go on a bender like that? There's no logical reason for it. Even if you're Hazel and think crazy things about alignment reveals upon death that don't match the rules, there's no logical reason that he would've lost his mind like he did. So... assuming he's scum, what does that get us? Well, it gives a much stronger town read on Waldorf being an oak due to the way he brought up his suspicions yesterday. It means that at least one of William and Berty are oaks, too. He wouldn't have given his crazy role claim only to teammates. I have had strong suspicions on both of them, but so far, I wouldn't feel comfortable lynching either. You're making sense. I dind't realize that all the crazy claims started at the night action deadline or shortly before, according to William and Berty. That seriously suggests that Barry started spreading misinformation after he learned he was going to die. If the scum can janitor anyone, then they have to be told who the night kills are in order to choose their janitor target. I checked with both William and Berty and they said the claim came before the night action deadline. Berty's claim was specific enough to put it about 4 hours before. Depending on when Alder takes his rest or if he's aiming to get the janitor action at the deadline, it's possible he told the scum in advance once most night actions were in. If William could also tell us the exact moment Berty claimed to him, we would have the complete picture. Has anyone else been claimed to by Barry? Barry hammered Alastair. It's a good point, but I'm not sure it proves that Alastair wasn't scum given the voting momentum then. When I told Bruce about Barry's claim, Bruce asked me to tell Barry that the town block wanted him to kill William. Bruce then told me to tell Barry that the town block would kill him unless he killed Maggie. I told Barry that the block would kill him unless he killed Maggie. Barry said that he'd rather kill Bobby. All of this happened in the 4 hours before the night action deadline? Anyway, it's interesing to note that Barry didn't want to kill Maggie. When Barry claimed to me, he mentioned that he didn't care who knew about his claim since he would win if he survived to Day 4. I think he may have been telling the truth here. Let's say he was a SK whose win condition was surviving to Day 4. He went all-out last night to avoid being killed by making up some crazy role-claims to cover his bases. But he was killed eventually by the vig. If his strategy was to make sure he doesn't get killed, he would have started claiming long before the very last hours before the night action deadline. Now, for him to be making claims before the deadline would require that they got the list even more before the deadline - can anyone confirm WHEN any vig kill was submitted to Alder? If it was early, he may have sent the list on to the maples early so they could make their pics and try to start the day quicker (especially since he posted he'd be travelling, might have wanted to push things ahead a bit) and that gave Barry time to spread some crazy - not thinking it'd save him since he already knew he was dead, but using a loophole to PM before it was daybreak and spread crazy to infect our discussions today. Yup, that's what I'm thinking too. It would be interesting to know if the vig sent in their action early that night. After our discussions and knowing the vig targeted Bobby, I'm assuming Barry was Scum. So, if that's true, these posts are interesting: He loves to defend Berty. He even makes an excuse for him not claiming in his first post in the guise of a wise Mafia lesson. Why is everyone so educated on Millers? I had no idea there was a specific protocol until Jack told me and Barry and Lassie seem to advocate the idea as well. Yes, it's a post on Mafiawiki, but wow, one year off and everyone gets all educated on weird roles. Have millers been common in recent games? They weren't very common in my day. Where's my cane? This pinged me at the time and all the subsequent times I read it. Bruce was suggesting claiming to the stumps in public. What had been discussed as unfair was everyone PMing claims to the stumps. This seems like remnants of a Scum "stump-gripe-fest". I had said I thought PMing claims to Lauren would break the game. Discussion around communicating with the stumps in public was gaining positive traction. Barry didn't notice. But Berty brought the information about Barry's weird claim to Bruce. So, that doesn't mean he's Scummy, does it? I found it odd that Berty didn't come to me first to tell me there was a second claim for bomb. Why go to Bruce when we had already discussed the bomb claim in private? I think it's possible the Scum needed a valid way to get this information to the Town block without seeming obvious. Perhaps, Berty's "concern" was a veiled attempt to warn the Town block that Barry blows up if targeted for a kill and that he has a sudden and new kill action in case he is tracked or caught by a watcher. I think you're getting somewhere here.
Hinckley Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 It's a good point, but I'm not sure it proves that Alastair wasn't scum given the voting momentum then. Yes, it's a WIFOM moment and that was actually my first thought was that it was a good gambit for Day One. After this, Alastair asked Bruce to unvote him, so Barry would've been the hammer and then maybe the bandwagon would've fallen apart altogether. The best case scenario for them would be if they could stop the lynch and he was killed later, Barry would get to say "But I hammered Alastair." I think you're getting somewhere here. Me too, but I'm more compelled by what you point out here: All of this happened in the 4 hours before the night action deadline? Anyway, it's interesing to note that Barry didn't want to kill Maggie. There's 3.5 hours left in the day. I think we could lynch Maggie and I'd feel good about that choice.
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