Hinckley Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 Also. Is Lassie asking anyone else a LOT of questions? In private, that is. Yes. I spent days talking to him (her? Lassie? ) about Berty's Miller claim. He's prolific. Just humor him. We've been hammering out your interaction with Barry and Berty for a while. It's helping, trust me. Answering his questions helps Oaks. Hey, Simon and Bruce, I have things to tell you! n139 Hero n4244 Beatrice n639 Don Pedro n9254 Conrade n1668 Duncan n4636 Ross n4187 Donalbain n136 Banquo n4861 Benedick n3610 Margaret Cool! Codes! Yay! Like Annie's secret decoder pin! "an oak but with one green leaf on it would have answered her;" And don't forget n3372 EQFQ. I don't even need to look that one up. I'll communicate back when I have a claim from Peter. Peter?
Lady K Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 Berty, with previous experience on other sites I find it hard to believe that you wouldn't understand certain roles. To have played mafia before but never looked at mafiawiki even out of curiosity is a mystery to me. You also started defending Hazel on your second post (post 198) of Day 2 on page 8. Stating she was a confused newbie, and that you felt Catarina (me), Chester, and Agnes all looked scummy. Guess what, two of us are stumps now and surprise you are suspecting......Chester. And the two of us were both taken out on night two. I was the lynch and Agnes was a night kill. We both turned up Oak! Very interesting wouldn't you say? You also said in that post that you supported Barry's case against me from day 1. And now he is gone, with no stump to tell alignment. If I could vote then I would: STUMP Vote: Berty Birch (Dragonfire)
Bob Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 Suddenly, out of the blue, you suspect me (just after Simon's post). Numerous reversals? I switched from believing there was no janitor to thinking there was a janitor, and I switched from nullscum-reading Hazel to townreading her. You've never before expressed suspicion of my claim, so why now? Ping. This happens to be the ultimate, in my mind, "you've accused me, so you must be scum" move right here. As for some of the other points and responses in her defense against Simon's post: I firmly believed that there was not a janitor in the game until Hazel, who I thought was town, died. For Hazel to be town, a janitor must exist. Please don't accuse me of flip-flopping between opposites. It would look far scummier if I did a 180 here and denounced Hazel as a Maple. Like Simon said, you only believe in a janitor when it'll make you appear less scummier. The majority opinion here is that Hazel was indeed a Maple tree, I don't think it would have looked scummier if you did a 180 and said that she was a Maple. The only explanation that I have in regards to you being so sure that Hazel is an Oak is that it'll make you look less scummy, but your vehement insistence that she's town is extremely suspicious, and it comes off like you're trying to save your own skin. I clearly stated to you in PM that I thought Hazel was scummy up until her selfvote post. I then reread her posts and could see the newb-Town perspective. You thought the self-vote post was not scummy? That was one of the scummiest actions possible. It's the "I'm willing to be sacrificed to save the town!" defense, only it backfired on her and you were the only one to see her as Town. This is what the real Maples want. They probably janitored Hazel so that we'd lynch a townie (me) today. The whole point of Hazel being janitored was a lead-up to my lynch. And you can never be certain of anything until the game conclusion. Only scum can know people's alignments. This goes back to my previous point. Berty is so sure that Hazel was janitored only because it makes her look less scummy. And also, the scum doesn't know the alliance of every player. Are you forgetting neutrals? Game hosts typically don't include the alignment of the person that's going to be janitored, unless this game is different and the host is giving your team the alignment of the players that are being killed. Hazel came to me in private and asked me how she could look townier in-thread. I told her if she was town, she should make a case on someone who she found scummy. Her case on Chester was hypocritical, but I didn't point it out because it would just lower her self-esteem. I truly believed that she was town being taken advantage of. I underlined and bolded a passage that I found rather important. Berty is using the past tense here. Do you no longer believe that Hazel was actually a townie? Is this another complete reversal? Hazel: I had a null/scum read on her up until her selfvote, then it switched to a townread. Is it a crime to townread Scum? (and there's no conclusive evidence that we've caught any scum yet) Here's another reversal. Berty now claims that she shouldn't have town-read Hazel ultimately, and appears to call her scum, but then does another reversal and claims that there's no way in knowing. Yep, you can lynch me if Hazel was scum. I myself would condone my lynch were Hazel scum. But was she? Nobody knows. Vote: Berty Birch (Dragonfire)
Hinckley Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 null/scum I like this new term you're coining. Can we re-brand it numbskull? I like the sound better. I forgot to vote: Berty Birch (Dragonfire) for tickling Nash.
MagPiesRUs Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 Yes, Lauren hands the Scum a free list of vanilla Townies. Which is why I don't like when you come to me with a list of those who hadn't claimed codes and basically ask which ones are in the Town block. Again, I never expected you to confirm or deny anything. I know that you're careful with information. I mainly left you with that list to discuss it with the town block and to see if it helps to support any knowledge you'd gathered. Like Simon said, you only believe in a janitor when it'll make you appear less scummier. The majority opinion here is that Hazel was indeed a Maple tree, I don't think it would have looked scummier if you did a 180 and said that she was a Maple. The only explanation that I have in regards to you being so sure that Hazel is an Oak is that it'll make you look less scummy, but your vehement insistence that she's town is extremely suspicious, and it comes off like you're trying to save your own skin. ... This goes back to my previous point. Berty is so sure that Hazel was janitored only because it makes her look less scummy. And also, the scum doesn't know the alliance of every player. Are you forgetting neutrals? Game hosts typically don't include the alignment of the person that's going to be janitored, unless this game is different and the host is giving your team the alignment of the players that are being killed. Agreed, this is what strikes me the most about Berty. Why is she so confident that Hazel is an oak? A townie shouldn't be this sure about the allegiance of someone who hasn't been verified in any way. It sounds like she thinks that if she does a 180 on the Hazel issue today, people will think she's scum. So instead she's sticking to her guns despite the majority of evidence pointing towards Hazel being scum (not appearing as a stump today, his comments about the janitor yesterday, teasing us about what we'll find out about him tomorrow, deleting his avatar and signature...) Vote: Berty Birch (Dragonfire) You thought the self-vote post was not scummy? That was one of the scummiest actions possible. It's the "I'm willing to be sacrificed to save the town!" defense, only it backfired on her and you were the only one to see her as Town. You lost me a little bit here though. If Hazel's self-vote was one of the scummiest actions possible, why did it take 22 hours for you to switch your vote from Peter to Hazel? You didn't even comment on Hazel's self-vote until the point where you voted for her.
Fugazi Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 Vote: Berty Birch (Dragonfire) Now let's move on to better things. Most trees who are not Maples agree by now that the "janitored" players are scum. The suspicious interactions between two janitored trees and Hazel led us to the lynch of a third janitored tree, what more evidence is needed? It's now interesting to take a look at yesterday's voting patterns which led to a successful lynch. Who pushed for a different lynch? 1.Berty votes Peter (1) 2.Simon votes Nash (1) 3.William votes Simon (1) 4.Sue votes Peter (2) 5.Waldorf votes Hazel (1) 6.Simon votes Jack (1) 7.Hazel votes Jack (2) 8.Simon votes Nash (1) 9.Berty votes Chester (1) 10.Hazel votes Hazel (2) 11.Jack votes Hazel (3) 12.Lassie votes Maggie (1) 13.Adelaide votes Peter (2) 14.Nash votes Peter (3) 15.Hazel votes Chester (2) 16.Simon votes Hazel (3) 17.Berty votes Peter (4) 18.Sammy votes Hazel (4) 19.Hazel votes Hazel (5) 20.Lassie votes Hazel (6) 21.Peter votes Hazel (7) 22.Maggie votes Hazel (8 = lynch) 23.Nash votes Hazel (9) 24.Sue votes Hazel (10) Now follow me: The day starts with scummy Berty voting for confusing Peter. After a few votes left and right, Sue also votes Peter. Then pressure builds on scummy Hazel. After Jack votes (3rd vote for Hazel), Adelaide and Nash vote Peter while Hazel changes her vote. Now Peter has 3 votes, Hazel 2. When Simon votes for Hazel (3rd vote), scummy Berty gives Peter the lead again (4). Only when Maggie hammers Hazel's lynch do Nash and Sue switch their votes on Hazel. Adelaide doesn't bother. If you asked me who fought against the Hazel lynch, I would say that Berty, Adelaide, Nash and Sue all did their best to promote the lynch of Peter instead of Hazel. Just saying. Do you remember the cunning strategy used by scummy Alastair on Day 1 to distance himself from scummy Hazel? Let's play it again: Vote: Hazel Hazelnut(Goliath) Because his(her?) only post at all in this entire thread has been fluff. In previous lives, I have been fooled by people who stay under the carpet and don't help. I'm tired of dying because I don't pay attention to the people who don't talk. Hazel, it would be nice if you chipped in and actually tried to find the maples like the rest of us are doing. My internet has been down for a majority of the day so I couldn't help. It sucks now because I'm clueless as to what is going on and it's going to take a little while for me to actually comprehend what is going on. As for now, I'm going to abstain because I'm not sure what's going on and I would like to catch-up with what is going on and vote for whoever appeals to me as a likely suspect. Okay, I looked back and caught up with all the puns and some the "morning wood" joke, very funny by the way, but I'm not set on a tree to mark the beginning of this deforestation simply because there's too much puns by too many people. So I don't see a tree to vote for right now at this very second in my eyes, if I had eyes. Who knows, I might just cast in a vote on a random tree... Okay Hazel, I am satisfied. But I would like to see you a lot more active. Unvote: Hazel Hazelnut (Goliath) I don't blame you for "poking" at me, I would have done it myself if I weren't me, if that makes any sense. Catarina saw through this token voting right away, and Alastair was history. Too bad that we didn't realize back then that "unknown alignment" meant dead scum. Anyway, turns out that Alastair wasn't the only one casting token votes. Early Day 1, let's see how Sue did: Vote: Adelaide Apple / TinyPiesRUs Please speak up. I don't think you've posted anything today. At least, I haven't seen anything from you. It might have gotten lost in the sea of fluff that was pages one through four. Poking Adelaide. Much, much later, when the writing was on the wall for Alastair, Sue came back and decided that Adelaide had endured enough pressure already. Unvote: Adelaide Apple (TinyPiesRUs) I'm very tempted to vote for Alistair Pear simple because I don't understand what the hell he's talking about anymore. I've been attempting to follow along to his disjointed occasionally rambling statements in which he's tried to justify his actions earlier about unvoting Hazel and also for flailing a bit in his attempts to defend himself. I see Bruce Spruce as either being a vanilla townie who's taking charge or a scum trying to assert himself and make himself look town. At the moment I'm going to go with the former explanation. Catarina is also a possibility, but she seems to post a lot of fluff posts in all of her games and perhaps she just didn't know when it was time to stop and get down to business. I'm still suspicious of her because she might be playing her "I'm just a newbie!" card and she's claiming that she's fully open to being sacrificed when it's Day One and she only has two votes on her. The whole Hazel Hazelnut situation pings me a little bit and if Alistair does turn up as scum tomorrow I think we should look at her more closely. Larry Larch does appear to be defending multiple people quite openly, which is suspicious, but I'm not sure if it's the most suspicious thing I've seen all day. I'm understanding the vote on Agnes is a poke, Berty Birch appears to be poking and flailing, and the vote on Chester appears to be because of his concern about jumping on a bandwagon, which shouldn't really be too much of a concern as long as you provide evidence and reasoning as to why you're voting for that person. I've looked at each of the votes and I think I'm going to go with Alistair Pear. His statements are disjointed and rambling, he's talking about intreenet machines (the time for puns is over) and he just seems to be flailing at this point now that there's more votes against him. That and his somewhat smug statements about how the town is going to be screwed if we vote him out and how we should watch out for people flying under the radar. Vote: Alistair Pear / Brickelodeon It's a Day One lynch, but with all the confusion that he's bringing forward I don't know if I can handle a Day Two with him. Note in red the mention to scrutinize Hazel should Alastair turn up as scum. Of course Alastair was "janitored", so no further mention of Hazel is made by Sue the next day. Tree stumps? Interesting. I can't say I've had the best experience with tree stumps though. I'm willing to bet that the tree-stumps will "disappear" after only one day with the town. The rules seem to agree with this, since there is still Rule 8b, which states that dead players cannot communicate when they're dead. This might only apply to the players that are janitored by the scum, since their stumps are gone, but it might also mean that the stumps will disappear as well after only one day (or maybe more). To slightly metagame, that's usually the way it works. It would get really noisy if the dead were allowed to continue talking for the rest of the game and it would give the Maples the advantage to slip under the radar the entire game if we're not careful enough to differentiate between the dead and the living. I also wouldn't put it past dead Maple's to spread lies and spam up the thread in order to help their fellow trees. One day, however is still plenty of time to set up a town block, though, but we'll have to wait on confirmation from the Elder about this. Okay, we've seen token votes and empty threats by Alasdair, Sue... I hear you asking, what about Nash and Adelaide? Check this out, appearing totally out of the blue on Day 2, with 6 votes against Catarina: Basically, before someone dies (this would work best for someone who's going to be lynched, since they know they'll die), they can send a list of codes to someone. They can say "investigator=12, vig=26, blocker=108, vanilla=89, 97, 53, 60 and 31". When they die, they can confer with the rest of the stumps and sort out everyone's roles and (maybe) targets. Then they'll say in public "Lauren was 87, Buck was 41, I was 62." Whoever was told the codes will then know their roles. As long as they didn't die too. It's happened before and it will happen again. It's a terrible idea and could potentially cost the town the game, but people are going to claim to unverified leaders nonetheless. Personally, I'm going to Vote: Nash Ash (Zepher), because he's got "Maple" written all over him. Literally. They're right next to the etchings that say "Jimmy was here, 2012" and "Mindy luvs Brad" OK, but why, really? I am suspicious of him too, but mostly because he accused me of being defensive when I was voicing my suspicions. He seemed to be doing the same thing I was accusing Sammy of. If, and I don't think this at this point, Sammy is Town then Nash could've been trying to raise suspicion against me since people were starting to claim to me. Other people have been suspect of him too. Can you voice your suspicions? It's gut feeling mostly. I am leaning towards Sammy being town, and Nash capitalizing on his accusations. (snip) As for the vote against me, it is what it is. I found Bruce's game to be full of loud fluff and asserting he's oak, but in a joking "oh, just kidding not kidding just kidding look at me be goofy and town-like blah blah blah". I still feel that way, and will probably feel that way at the end of the day too. If someone else feeling that way as well before me warrants a vote, there's not much I can do about that! Another token vote when the momentum against Catarina was strong and there was no chance whatsoever of stopping that lynch from happening. Just some food for thought, as today's lynch is pretty much sealed and we're looking forward to lynching more scum on Day 6.
Tamamono Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 I feel iffy about this lynch. On the one hand, Berty has been massively scummy this entire time. On the other, he did claim miller, a claim I'm inclined to believe. In the end, behavior wins out, I think. He's constantly contradicted himself, fished, and was the one who brought me the "Barry is a neutral bomb" thing when it's really looking like Barry's scum now. Vote: Berty Birch (Dragonfire)
jimmynick Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 It's too quiet in here, as though someone died. Oh, right! I died!
Hinckley Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 We're mourning you, your highness...now your stumpness.
Hinckley Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 n9254 n6609 Conrade I full understand that. Think what your next question would be if you were me.
badboytje88 Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 Vote: Berty Birch (Dragonfire) Hazel is SCUM. Her actions after leaving this game made it quite clear she knew she was getting janitored. You claiming otherwise is hujust shady.
Dragonfire Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 The "I'm new at this" excuse is never taken well, and you seem to be overdoing it slightly. Hypocrite But you claim to have played on MafiaScum before. Yes, I have. So? It's quite a different site from this one. I'm willing to see where this goes. I'm confident now that the scum turn up unknown. I'm still trying to figure out if Berty is more or less likely scum because Barry was. So far the one thing that stands out to me is that Berty apparantly relayed pretty accurately exactly what words were said in the exchange between me and Barry. That is interesting. I trusted Barry, poor choice on my part. He told me all these things. I have been asking a lot of questions of certain people. In your case, if we consider Barry to be scum, which I do, then it's of interest who Barry was talking to and what they were doing with the information they exchanged with Barry. You were one of those people. Vote: Berty Birch (Dragonfire) I told Bruce the information I received from Barry. How is that scummy? Yes, I was talking to Barry. I townread him. Is this a crime? STUMP Vote: Berty Birch (Dragonfire) Stumps don't get votes. Berty, with previous experience on other sites I find it hard to believe that you wouldn't understand certain roles. To have played mafia before but never looked at mafiawiki even out of curiosity is a mystery to me. You also started defending Hazel on your second post (post 198) of Day 2 on page 8. Stating she was a confused newbie, and that you felt Catarina (me), Chester, and Agnes all looked scummy. Guess what, two of us are stumps now and surprise you are suspecting......Chester. And the two of us were both taken out on night two. I was the lynch and Agnes was a night kill. We both turned up Oak! Very interesting wouldn't you say? You also said in that post that you supported Barry's case against me from day 1. And now he is gone, with no stump to tell alignment. If I could vote then I would: STUMP Vote: Berty Birch (Dragonfire) Yes, I suspected some people who turned up town and I trusted a possible scum. I'm not perfect. I've never been a miller before. Miller is an uncommon role on mafiascum and I've never looked at the wiki. And for your information, everyone suspected you. Oh, and the Vig killed Agnes. snip Vote: Berty Birch (Dragonfire) I'm not even going to bother defending myself against you since you're just making up stuff and twisting my words here. I forgot to vote: Berty Birch (Dragonfire) for tickling Nash. Award for Most Original Vote of the Game (MOVG) : Simon Persimmon He did ask me to tickle him though... Again, I never expected you to confirm or deny anything. I know that you're careful with information. I mainly left you with that list to discuss it with the town block and to see if it helps to support any knowledge you'd gathered. Agreed, this is what strikes me the most about Berty. Why is she so confident that Hazel is an oak? A townie shouldn't be this sure about the allegiance of someone who hasn't been verified in any way. It sounds like she thinks that if she does a 180 on the Hazel issue today, people will think she's scum. So instead she's sticking to her guns despite the majority of evidence pointing towards Hazel being scum (not appearing as a stump today, his comments about the janitor yesterday, teasing us about what we'll find out about him tomorrow, deleting his avatar and signature...) Vote: Berty Birch (Dragonfire) Generally from past experience, people who flip-flop on opinions are considered scummy. Although the evidence suggests otherwise, I still think that Hazel was town. You're going to lynch me either way, so I don't really care at this point. Vote: Berty Birch (Dragonfire) Now let's move on to better things. Most trees who are not Maples agree by now that the "janitored" players are scum. The suspicious interactions between two janitored trees and Hazel led us to the lynch of a third janitored tree, what more evidence is needed? It's now interesting to take a look at yesterday's voting patterns which led to a successful lynch. Who pushed for a different lynch? 1.Berty votes Peter (1) 2.Simon votes Nash (1) 3.William votes Simon (1) 4.Sue votes Peter (2) 5.Waldorf votes Hazel (1) 6.Simon votes Jack (1) 7.Hazel votes Jack (2) 8.Simon votes Nash (1) 9.Berty votes Chester (1) 10.Hazel votes Hazel (2) 11.Jack votes Hazel (3) 12.Lassie votes Maggie (1) 13.Adelaide votes Peter (2) 14.Nash votes Peter (3) 15.Hazel votes Chester (2) 16.Simon votes Hazel (3) 17.Berty votes Peter (4) 18.Sammy votes Hazel (4) 19.Hazel votes Hazel (5) 20.Lassie votes Hazel (6) 21.Peter votes Hazel (7) 22.Maggie votes Hazel (8 = lynch) 23.Nash votes Hazel (9) 24.Sue votes Hazel (10) Now follow me: The day starts with scummy Berty voting for confusing Peter. After a few votes left and right, Sue also votes Peter. Then pressure builds on scummy Hazel. After Jack votes (3rd vote for Hazel), Adelaide and Nash vote Peter while Hazel changes her vote. Now Peter has 3 votes, Hazel 2. When Simon votes for Hazel (3rd vote), scummy Berty gives Peter the lead again (4). Only when Maggie hammers Hazel's lynch do Nash and Sue switch their votes on Hazel. Adelaide doesn't bother. If you asked me who fought against the Hazel lynch, I would say that Berty, Adelaide, Nash and Sue all did their best to promote the lynch of Peter instead of Hazel. Just saying. I would advise not putting me in red until I'm actually dead. It's not only misleading but very humiliating for me. Besides, it will mess up your reasoning. And I am not a "janitored" tree. Why are you suggesting that I am? I'm actually alive and talking to you! Guess what? Nash and Sue again! Those guys seem to do everything together... Just some food for thought, as today's lynch is pretty much sealed and we're looking forward to lynching more scum on Day 6. Correction: today's lynch is pretty much sealed and I'm looking forward to help you lynch a scum on Day 6 as a confirmed townie. I feel iffy about this lynch. On the one hand, Berty has been massively scummy this entire time. On the other, he did claim miller, a claim I'm inclined to believe. In the end, behavior wins out, I think. He's constantly contradicted himself, fished, and was the one who brought me the "Barry is a neutral bomb" thing when it's really looking like Barry's scum now. Vote: Berty Birch (Dragonfire) So you think I'm lying about Barry's claim? Kudos to you for being the only player to say anything other than "LYNCH BERTY!!!" today. Vote: Berty Birch (Dragonfire) Hazel is SCUM. Her actions after leaving this game made it quite clear she knew she was getting janitored. You claiming otherwise is hujust shady. So in your opinion, anyone who has differing beliefs to you is scum? You're scum yourself, mate.
Walter Kovacs Posted February 19, 2015 Author Posted February 19, 2015 Voting Update: Berty Birch (Dragonfire) - 9 (mostlytechnic, Scubacarrot, fhomess, Bob, Hinckley, TinyPiesRUs, Fugazi, Tamamono, badboytje88) There are 34 Hours remaining in Day 5. It takes 7 Votes to lynch.
Dragonfire Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 Vote: Peter Cedar because he's just useless. Come on Chester and Nash, vote me already so that we can end this stupid day.
Fugazi Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 I would advise not putting me in red until I'm actually dead. It's not only misleading but very humiliating for me. Sue me. Get it? Sue! And I am not a "janitored" tree. Why are you suggesting that I am? I'm actually alive and talking to you! I was talking about Hazel. You will be the fourth janitored tree.
Dragonfire Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 I will be, will I? How are you so sure? Are you the janitor?
Fugazi Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 I will be, will I? How are you so sure? Are you the janitor? There's no such thing as a janitor.
jimmynick Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 I jolly well know I don't get a real vote because I'm a stump. I want to make it clear where my thoughts lie. Berty, Sue seems to be concerned that you are worried about doing what looks scummy, which is scummy in itself because it shows you're always thinking about what other people think about you, which means you have something to hide.
Dragonfire Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 Oh I see. I remember a few townies doing this in a House of Cards forest, and they were lynched because of it. I don't think it's alignment indicative since mainly only newbs do it.
Zepher Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 Vote: Berty Birch (Dragonfire) The cases against Adelaide and Sue both seem to be strong ones to follow up on.
mostlytechnic Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 The cases against Adelaide and Sue both seem to be strong ones to follow up on. I note you left yourself out of the suspect list that keeps bouncing around.... And care to actually BUILD some cases, rather than just say there are cases?
Hinckley Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 There's no such thing as a janitor. Then who brings us presents at Christmas? Waldorf, n9254 targets?
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