Book II, Chal IV - Kaliphlin Civil War (Results Posted)

[marcu22]

Hi,

Even if i'm new to EB i want to join this interesting challenge...I have a look on this whole thing for quite a while and starting to get all the rules (getting along with the language^^). I would join Ulandus, seem's to me that members are needed the most over there. Do I just start with Challenge C/ Warzone 6 or did I got something wrong?

Regards

Edited April 6, 2015 by marcu22

[Garmadon]

Hi,

Even if i'm new to EB i want to join this interesting challenge...I have a look on this whole thing for quite a while and starting to get all the rules (getting along with the language^^). I would join Ulandus, seem's to me that members are needed the most over there. Do I just start with Challenge C/ Warzone 6 or did I got something wrong?

Regards

Good to have you! If you haven't joined a Guild yet you will need to do that first, but other than that you got it right! Once you have ten posts we will add you to the Ulander PM thread (to plot the success of Ulandus and the downfall of the Desert King! )

Edited April 6, 2015 by Garmadon

[SkaForHire]

Hi,

Even if i'm new to EB i want to join this interesting challenge...I have a look on this whole thing for quite a while and starting to get all the rules (getting along with the language^^). I would join Ulandus, seem's to me that members are needed the most over there. Do I just start with Challenge C/ Warzone 6 or did I got something wrong?

Regards

Good to have you! If you haven't joined a Guild yet you will need to do that first, but other than that you got it right! Once you have ten posts we will add you to the Ulander PM thread (to plot the success of Ulandus and the downfall of the Desert King! )

To clarify for Marcu, the reason you need 10 threads on all of EB, in order to be able to join a mass message. Not that they don't want you to join ASAP. Signing up for a guild will help you get to that number faster! You can sign up for any guild, and still participate in this Kaliphlin challenge.

[marcu22]

Thank's for your replies! I've chosen an guild(hope they let me join )... and I'm starting to get motivated, building against the mighty force of the Desert King. Especially competing with Disco, as a compatriot of mine is interesting for me...

[SkaForHire]

Vote for your favorite faction member in the Mini Challenge Voting Thread

[Captain Braunsfeld]

I really like all the things going on in GoH right now but with work, two kids and painting the interior of my house I can't keep up the pace here!

Pace is really high. Maybe too high.

It seems to me that a growing number of participants are getting stressed.

That is actually not what I want to see in a community of lego builders...

[Gideon]

Pace is really high. Maybe too high.

It seems to me that a growing number of participants are getting stressed.

That is actually not what I want to see in a community of lego builders...

Pace is way too high here now, I don't have time to even comment all the builds...let alone build for all the awesome warzones

Hope to get back to doing some building again the coming weekend, but it was good to take a break from the challenge and lose some of the stress which honestly took a lot of the fun away for me.

[Bregir]

Pace is way too high here now, I don't have time to even comment all the builds...let alone build for all the awesome warzones

Hope to get back to doing some building again the coming weekend, but it was good to take a break from the challenge and lose some of the stress which honestly took a lot of the fun away for me.

Maybe "doubling" all deadlines would take the pressure of builders and organizer abit? However, while I would suggest warzones and Guerilla's are doubled (e.i. one guerilla/2 weeks), counter guerilla's could be kept at one per week to avoid inbalances. (Guerilla's can be made when you have the time - counters are more of a pressure...)

I am a bit concerned with stressing out builders too.

On the other hand, maybe we just need to accept we can't build for it all, and find a suitable level?

[SkaForHire]

Maybe "doubling" all deadlines would take the pressure of builders and organizer abit? However, while I would suggest warzones and Guerilla's are doubled (e.i. one guerilla/2 weeks), counter guerilla's could be kept at one per week to avoid inbalances. (Guerilla's can be made when you have the time - counters are more of a pressure...)

I am a bit concerned with stressing out builders too.

On the other hand, maybe we just need to accept we can't build for it all, and find a suitable level?

To be honest, and I think I said this way at the beginning, I never imagined that some people would build their max every week. I sort of felt that there would be a few GAs, mostly always a matching counter, and then high participation in the WZs throughout, with most people tackling 1/3 of these over the three months. I never realized how into the challenge people would get. The difference here is the casual builder versus the hardcore builder. There are ways to balance that, but not really in the framework that we have going. I have set up a kind of guideline, where, depending on build size, where size increases so does build time before the deadline. I hope that helps. I suppose we could cut down the GAs to 1 every 2 weeks, what does everyone think of that?

[Gideon]

I suppose we could cut down the GAs to 1 every 2 weeks, what does everyone think of that?

Because of the unexpected number of people turning out GAs and the map turning yellow (and hard to interpret who is controlling what) from all off-limit zones?

Yes, this is a good idea in my opinion.

I'm generally not very fond of a challenge format which seems to favor a high number of builds, so giving us non-TFOL builders with less building time a fair chance to keep up would be welcome

To be honest, the whole GA-CG frenzy is making the challenge hard to follow because of the insane amount of threads being generated. So for another challenge (or extension of the Kaliphlin civil war?), I would prefer a concept where putting more effort into warzone builds would be prioritized. As long as some of them have smaller size limits, it would still enable people with small collections or little time to participate.

Alternatively, it would be great for another challenge if some computer wizard could make some kind of game platform which can keep track of the builds and voting. Maybe have an interactive map which the builds can be assigned to and would highlight which zones are under attack, where voting is ongoing etc. This would also make the admin way less.

But anyway don't get me wrong, I love this challenge and how it gets so many people to participate!

I'm just afraid that the time pressure is making this a challenge more about quantity than quality and I'm afraid that when I myself can't keep up with all the action that the frenzy is potentially scaring away new builders.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Gideon

[SkaForHire]

Because of the unexpected number of people turning out GAs and the map turning yellow (and hard to interpret who is controlling what) from all off-limit zones?

Yes, this is a good idea in my opinion.

I'm generally not very fond of a challenge format which seems to favor a high number of builds, so giving us non-TFOL builders with less building time a fair chance to keep up would be welcome

To be honest, the whole GA-CG frenzy is making the challenge hard to follow because of the insane amount of threads being generated. So for another challenge (or extension of the Kaliphlin civil war?), I would prefer a concept where putting more effort into warzone builds would be prioritized. As long as some of them have smaller size limits, it would still enable people with small collections or little time to participate.

Alternatively, it would be great for another challenge if some computer wizard could make some kind of game platform which can keep track of the builds and voting. Maybe have an interactive map which the builds can be assigned to and would highlight which zones are under attack, where voting is ongoing etc. This would also make the admin way less.

But anyway don't get me wrong, I love this challenge and how it gets so many people to participate!

I'm just afraid that the time pressure is making this a challenge more about quantity than quality and I'm afraid that when I myself can't keep up with all the action that the frenzy is potentially scaring away new builders.

I wish we could at least have some sort of form wizard or something to keep track of the GAs, that is the hardest part for me.

I was thinking, perhaps after the peace talks if we continue the challenge, we would set it to each zone needs two, four, or six GA MOCs in order to challenge the defender. That way they are less devastating if a counter is missed, because less zones would be under threat theoretically. Also, as Bregir said, some of these actions are not worthy of taking over a whole zone. One assassination, one hanging, one siege engine won't convince a population to support another faction.

The original purpose of GAs were for people who did not like to do war MOCs. I kind of felt that most of these MOCs would fall under the category of intrigue. I have no problem with the content being depicted, but perhaps Bregir was right, more "in game" effort should be made to actually secure a zone that is 20 x 20 miles... Alternative, we could allow GAs to become strings of builder v. Builder, maybe an attack, a counter, a counter attack, a counter counter, a last attack, and a last counter. It would take as long as it took the two builders to go through the sequence, but it would present more a "duel" atmosphere. We could even allow builders to "tag in" an ally if they could only do one of the attacks for their sequence. Just some thoughts.

[Kai NRG]

The tag/duel concept is intriguing to me, I'd actually thought up a few double counters, so to speak, countering a counter. Personally, I'm not stressed at this point neither do I think that I've had to sacrifice quality for quantity very much. However I would not mind a step down from the admittedly rather hectic routine and at this rate I certainly do not want any extension. In fact in general I don't think an extension is a good idea, even if we're still going strong in June. Better to end on a high note than to fizzle out.

IMHO if you're not interested in building war MOCs several of the zones still have other possibilities - eg. the aqueduct, there was no need to depict a battle there.

Intrigue is hard to depict in an exciting, eye-grabbing way. Plus it gets old pretty fast... imagine if all the guerrillas we'd had so far had been intrigue! That said, my next guerrilla does happen to be intrigue.

Edit: I do think amount of GAs should not be cut until the end of the month, in other words, leaving us plenty of advance notice.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Kai NRG

[Gideon]

I wish we could at least have some sort of form wizard or something to keep track of the GAs, that is the hardest part for me.

I was thinking, perhaps after the peace talks if we continue the challenge, we would set it to each zone needs two, four, or six GA MOCs in order to challenge the defender. That way they are less devastating if a counter is missed, because less zones would be under threat theoretically. Also, as Bregir said, some of these actions are not worthy of taking over a whole zone. One assassination, one hanging, one siege engine won't convince a population to support another faction.

The original purpose of GAs were for people who did not like to do war MOCs. I kind of felt that most of these MOCs would fall under the category of intrigue. I have no problem with the content being depicted, but perhaps Bregir was right, more "in game" effort should be made to actually secure a zone that is 20 x 20 miles... Alternative, we could allow GAs to become strings of builder v. Builder, maybe an attack, a counter, a counter attack, a counter counter, a last attack, and a last counter. It would take as long as it took the two builders to go through the sequence, but it would present more a "duel" atmosphere. We could even allow builders to "tag in" an ally if they could only do one of the attacks for their sequence. Just some thoughts.

Why not just appoint someone skilled in BBCode as your secretary to create the poll threads etc? I'm sure there are people willing to participate and let you focus on pushing the challenge forward (and maybe even make a build or three to introduce new warzones?).

Maybe nerfing GAs to only somehow gain points for your side would work to keep the unbalance down, and let zones change hands only by warzone mechanics or maybe some special GA conditions like you describe? I would rather prefer several zones changing side as result of an epic warzone battle than from a barrage of small GA builds even if the number of builds would be the same.

The tag/duel concept is intriguing to me, I'd actually thought up a few double counters, so to speak, countering a counter. Personally, I'm not stressed at this point neither do I think that I've had to sacrifice quality for quantity very much. However I would not mind a step down from the admittedly rather hectic routine and at this rate I certainly do not want any extension. In fact in general I don't think an extension is a good idea, even if we're still going strong in June. Better to end on a high note than to fizzle out.

IMHO if you're not interested in building war MOCs several of the zones still have other possibilities - eg. the aqueduct, there was no need to depict a battle there.

Intrigue is hard to depict in an exciting, eye-grabbing way. Plus it gets old pretty fast... imagine if all the guerrillas we'd had so far had been intrigue! That said, my next guerrilla does happen to be intrigue.

Edit: I do think amount of GAs should not be cut until the end of the month, in other words, leaving us plenty of advance notice.

Countering counters would be fun, as that would create more of a lasting conflict in a zone rather than the present "off limit zone" mechanics forcing the conflict to move to another square.

I agree that warzones should not all be about direct conflict, but contrary I think GAs should allow showing direct conflict.

Anyway, I agree that ending the challenge when it is still going strong (for example with the epic battle for Petraea) is a good idea rather than having the summer inactivity set in during an extension. In that way, depending on the outcome of the challenge we have a new political situation in Kaliphlin to relate to and continue the story from there.

I'm however strongly advocating challenge V to be something similar to this, but with updated rules based on lessons learned about what worked well and what did not work well in this challenge. Maybe time for a revisit of Nocturnus which has seen too little activity recently?

[Jacob Nion]

as Bregir said, some of these actions are not worthy of taking over a whole zone. One assassination, one hanging, one siege engine won't convince a population to support another faction.

That sounds so familiar

Well, I see your point. But I can hardly imagine a Guerilla action that could influence such an area. Especially because it seemed at the beginning of the challenge that GAs were supposed to be mainly small and sneaky, depicting a smart idea to disturb the enemy.

About the number of builds I want to say that imho quality doesn't really suffer because of the quantity. Of course it makes a difference if someone optimizes his entry over two months or has to finish it within a week or two. But everyone is doing his/her best on their builds. And many of those builders who popped out about three mocs per week are not TFOLs who come to bricks right after school. Spoken for me, I'm just overeager right now because GoH is all new and exciting to me and I wanted to show vigor by giving the maximum for my team. And it was very hard to come up with stuff every few days (maybe it's one's opinion that the result is low quality, but I swear I give my best). Man things were over night stuff and I definitely can't keep up that marathon.

The thing that I really wish is that we all come to one point were the majority of community can enjoy this new kind of challenge because it is really awesome and imo adds a lot to the whole contest.

I simply love all these minichallenges which bring us to every corner of Kaliphlin. And Ska always comes up with creative contents for these which are totally not simply depicting battles or kicking eachothers heads in.

Therefore I think that also players who are not into warbuilds can enjoy the warzones.

A main reason for me to make maximum use of the GA aspect was that I thought expanding the team's territory through warzones would be too slow.

I don't know how to continue with GAs, but maybe it would be an idea to make some quick warzones worth only one square, and some larger wzs worth three or four squares, at the same time giving the people and expanded due date.

That would guarantee that strong builders with less time can concentrate on important WZs, while other (also talented of course) builders can concentrate on the small competitions.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Jacob Nion

[SkaForHire]

Well, I guess Challenge V depends on what Z has in mind, not sure he is up for the same task that I just put myself through. Although, with help, I could assume the same role again. I just don't know the lore / geography enough of Nocturnus to really be the one putting together the warzone challenges.

but I would not mind us turning to Cedrica for a claim on the throne and make it a four way challenge...

As for a new GA system, I think I already have in mind what we can do going forward if we do this type of challenge again based on everyone's suggestions.

[Garmadon]

Yes, I agree that the number of GA builds being done are quite out of control and it would be a good idea to reduce them to make the WZs more important... Sometimes one GA could clearly effect a complete square (e.g., MassEditor's or Jacob's Cyclops) but other times I wouldn't expect it to really be worth the whole zone - I'm not speaking of size but rather about the idea behind it. Reducing the number to one every two weeks would probably be a good idea - and make them easier to keep track of! - even though I certainly have been having fun building all of them!

It would be nice to have a few weeks of advance warning (as Kai said) though

[Disco86]

Totally agree that GAs are too powerful at this moment. And the pure mass of them is annoying. In my opinion this game should be focused more on warzones. But maybe we don't need to change anything within this challenge. The system itself is ultimate fun, we just need some minor tweakings.

[MKJoshA]

I think that limiting the GAs to 1 every 2 weeks will solve the GA problem. But I would still allow 1 counter a week, that should keep Ulandus happy I also think the intense pace will let up a little bit as we all take turns taking deep breaths after the building frenzy.

[mrcp6d]

2 counter opportunities per GA also makes more sense to me simply as the "home team" ought to have more resources available on their turf to run the sneaky cowards down!

Oh, also I'm back to my bricks and am searching for all my tan!

[Kai NRG]

If the lieutenants are going to get a perk, you should make them earn their salt by keeping track of the personal points for all of their teammates. I've been keeping pretty good track of my own, btw.

[SkaForHire]

If the lieutenants are going to get a perk, you should make them earn their salt by keeping track of the personal points for all of their teammates. I've been keeping pretty good track of my own, btw.

I don't want to overburden them too lol. Hopefully our totals add up to the same. I am hoping to get a complete total after WZ 5's voting ends.

[Kai NRG]

I'd imagine that if the lieutenants once got caught up (maybe after WZ5) keeping up on a build by build day by day basis wouldn't be too challenging!

It's hard for me to tell exactly how many points I got for each guerrilla/counter, since those changed in the middle! Otherwise our totals should probably be the same or at least very close.

[robuko]

....some of these actions are not worthy of taking over a whole zone. One assassination, one hanging, one siege engine won't convince a population to support another faction.

Who cares about the assassination of one minor archduke?

[kabel]

gee, two weeks away and now I'm completely lost ...

[Lord Vladivus]

gee, two weeks away and now I'm completely lost ...

It's been hectic! I only just understand myself!