Castle Eras and Factions

[Moyalmas]

I don't think anyone mentioned it yet: how about the Lion Knights?? Always in the same sets with the Crusaders...

Minifigs are only reffered as Crusaders, but the sets mentione Lion Knights...

I just braught this up, because i have a 600+ minifig army of Crusaders and Lion Knights, and in the chart, the Lion Knights aren't mentioned...

What say you? :)

[Umbra-Manis]

Apparently fright knights is an extreme minority.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Umbra-Manis

[Gary The Procrastinator]

Thanks for this great graphic showing the timeline and colors of the factions.

[SirBlake]

I don't think anyone mentioned it yet: how about the Lion Knights?? Always in the same sets with the Crusaders...

Minifigs are only reffered as Crusaders, but the sets mentione Lion Knights...

I just braught this up, because i have a 600+ minifig army of Crusaders and Lion Knights, and in the chart, the Lion Knights aren't mentioned...

What say you? :)

Same faction.

[Rogue Angel]

I have revised the initial post to reflect some of the comments you have provided. I remember keeping the KKII snake out for some reason, but now I can't remember why. I will have to add it in when I revise this. I didn't bother to include Falcons with the Kingdoms Joust since it was just the one figure. I did not include Vikings in the poll as they are not technically part of the Castle line.

[Lind Whisperer]

I remember keeping the KKII snake out for some reason, but now I can't remember why. I will have to add it in when I revise this.

Actually, leaving him off the list of factions was correct - the snake shield was carried by Karzon, a rogue knight who served as weapons master to Vladek. Whereas the "jelly bean" knights all came from distinct provinces, and bore their heraldry on their armor, no province was ever listed for Karzon. Until or unless more information about him is ever released, I would suggest leaving the "snakes" off of the chart.

Also, after consulting this official map of Morcia, I suggest that the post-Grand Tournament(E.g., Gen II) "Scorpions" be renamed to "Ankorians."

[dgherko]

Brilliant resource Rogue Angel!

I grew up in the classic era, but for me the Dragon Knights hold the most nostalgia. The 1993 catalogue (see image below), with all those sets, is still one of my favourite images to this day.

As gylman points out, this is based more on fond memories than actual set quality, but still, Dragon Knights hold a special place in my heart.

The Black Knight castles (6085 and 6086) are among the best ever. The Dragon Masters Castle 6086 stands as probably the finest ever made

[Maxim I]

I voted for KK2 just because it are jelly beans! Many people here forget that medieval times were very colourfull and in large battles it were vasals fighting together with their own soldiers. So historically seen, KK2 may be one of the most accurate castle-themes.

Also the variety of shield is absolutely awesome!

And I really loved the shadowguards! The darkred with black is just a fantastic herald!

Also the dragon faction of KK2 has so nice heraldry!

[Hive]

The Shadow Knights/Scorpions should have their own spot in the poll btw, I'd vote for them (instead of my 5th pick, Crownies). Their heraldy is fantastic and the dark red/black is an amazing combination that looks fantastic.

[VintageLegoEra]

Brilliant resource Rogue Angel!

I grew up in the classic era, but for me the Dragon Knights hold the most nostalgia. The 1993 catalogue (see image below), with all those sets, is still one of my favourite images to this day.

As gylman points out, this is based more on fond memories than actual set quality, but still, Dragon Knights hold a special place in my heart.

There is a mistake in the catalogue if you focus. The shield must be Dragon and not lion from the Crusader Theme :)....

i have many Catalogues from back Eras with these miss placing things! :)

I don't think anyone mentioned it yet: how about the Lion Knights?? Always in the same sets with the Crusaders...

Minifigs are only reffered as Crusaders, but the sets mentione Lion Knights...

I just braught this up, because i have a 600+ minifig army of Crusaders and Lion Knights, and in the chart, the Lion Knights aren't mentioned...

What say you? :)

Lion Knights are Sub-Sets/Themes under Crusaders. So when mentioning Crusader this will definitely means Lion Knights and rest of the Theme :)

[Moyalmas]

yes, i know they from the same faction :)

But, wouldn't it make more sense if they didn't?

Just my opinion :)

[SirBlake]

yes, i know they from the same faction :)

But, wouldn't it make more sense if they didn't?

Just my opinion :)

If they didn't what? Come from the same faction? No. They come in the same sets and carry the same shields. Crossed axes are just another torso design for the same theme wearing lions. Seems pretty simple.

[thetang22]

I agree, I think it makes fine sense as is. Crusaders/Lion Knights are the same faction. Lots of factions have more than 1 torso design.

[VintageLegoEra]

I agree, I think it makes fine sense as is. Crusaders/Lion Knights are the same faction. Lots of factions have more than 1 torso design.

True and the Accurate name if you want to name the theme is: Crusader the Lion Knight :)

[frogstudio]

If LEGO took the effort of ansluzing the results of this poll they would shurely como out with the best castle line ever!

[Duvors]

Hey, not everyone* hates the theme**. :shrug:

I sympathize with you.

[LordDan]

I voted for KK2 just because it are jelly beans! Many people here forget that medieval times were very colourfull and in large battles it were vasals fighting together with their own soldiers. So historically seen, KK2 may be one of the most accurate castle-themes.

Also the variety of shield is absolutely awesome!

And I really loved the shadowguards! The darkred with black is just a fantastic herald!

Also the dragon faction of KK2 has so nice heraldry!

Yes!! Finally someone else knows what they are talking about( even if he's a hippy kicking, tree hugger hating Kaliphalanite). KK2 was the best!!!

[Ardelon]

I wasnt really on board with this chart at first, but the more I look at it, the more sense it seems to make. I do have several comments, though:

- Maybe "Classic Classic Castle" could be given a better name, like Pre-Classic (or even Archaic, like Archaic Greece preceding Classical Greece, as the reason we use the term "Classic(al)" today)

- Why arent the Black Knights referred to as such?

- It seems strange to refer to the Kingdoms Lions as Crusaders.

- Most of all, I agree with Hive on separating Kingdoms fromthe 2013 Castle theme, as the two have nothing in common except the animals behind the heraldry.

I voted for KK2 just because it are jelly beans! Many people here forget that medieval times were very colourfull and in large battles it were vasals fighting together with their own soldiers. So historically seen, KK2 may be one of the most accurate castle-themes.

Not really, I would say. The natural dyes used back then faded pretty quickly, so any colors back then would have been rather pale and drab. So historically seen, KK2 is still one of the least accurate castle-themes - and thats saying a lot, next to themes with dragons and trolls and undead.

Also the variety of shield is absolutely awesome!

And I really loved the shadowguards! The darkred with black is just a fantastic herald!

Also the dragon faction of KK2 has so nice heraldry!

I would have agreed with you, if the shields and heraldry of KK2 didnt look more like racing car decals rather than actual heraldry.

The Shadow/Scorpion knighs are indeed pretty nice, though the color scheme is a bit too stereotypically evil for my jaded tastes. I guess we cant waste any opportunity to teach our kids that black + red = evil.

But I do agree with Lind Whisperer that KK2 had the advantage of a developed storyline.

[Robert8]

I voted for KK2 just because it are jelly beans! Many people here forget that medieval times were very colourfull and in large battles it were vasals fighting together with their own soldiers. So historically seen, KK2 may be one of the most accurate castle-themes.

Also the variety of shield is absolutely awesome!

And I really loved the shadowguards! The darkred with black is just a fantastic herald!

Also the dragon faction of KK2 has so nice heraldry!

Yes!! Finally someone else knows what they are talking about( even if he's a hippy kicking, tree hugger hating Kaliphalanite). KK2 was the best!!!

I love KK2 too! It's good to see I'm not alone

[thetang22]

KK2 has never reminded me of traditional medieval heraldry. When I look at KK2, I see Power Rangers more than anything.

[dgherko]

The Black Knight faction had the two best castles, (6085 and 6086) a gate 6059 the sea serpent,plenty of cavalry, good footmen just did not have the named character (the black monarch)

[Duvors]

KK2 has never reminded me of traditional medieval heraldry. When I look at KK2, I see Power Rangers more than anything.

I daresay that realism wasn't the point, these toys are targeted at kids, not adults.

[thetang22]

I daresay that realism wasn't the point, these toys are targeted at kids, not adults.

My comment about them looking more like Power Rangers than traditional medieval knights was a response to these sorts of comments in this thread:

Many people here forget that medieval times were very colourfull.......So historically seen, KK2 may be one of the most accurate castle-themes.

[Maxim I]

Not really, I would say. The natural dyes used back then faded pretty quickly, so any colors back then would have been rather pale and drab. So historically seen, KK2 is still one of the least accurate castle-themes - and thats saying a lot, next to themes with dragons and trolls and undead.

I am pretty sure the natural dyes used back then were not so fading as you may think. Take a look at all the marvelous and colourfull Leadlights and paintings back then that survived the time. Many of the cathedrals back then were painted very colourfully as well.

So the "hollywood medieval times" are not as correct as the way TLG made KK2. Medieval times weren't dark and pale and drab, they were instead very colourfull...

[thetang22]

I am pretty sure the natural dyes used back then were not so fading as you may think. Take a look at all the marvelous and colourfull Leadlights and paintings back then that survived the time. Many of the cathedrals back then were painted very colourfully as well.

So the "hollywood medieval times" are not as correct as the way TLG made KK2. Medieval times weren't dark and pale and drab, they were instead very colourfull...

What makes colors fade in fabric? Traditionally wear and tear via sunlight and washing. Neither leadlights/stained glass or paintings are subject to washing under the same circumstances as fabrics. Sunlight doesn't affect leadlights/stained glass the same way as fabric because the dyes have different chemical properties when mixed with glass that protect them much more. Sunlight doesn't affect paintings/cathedrals because those are almost always out of direct sunlight. Put a painting outside in the sunlight for any extended period of time and the colors will start to wash out.

Medieval Heraldry does have some vibrant colors. The biggest offense with KK2, in my opinion, is the sheer volume of color that's used on them. You may find lots of color in Classic Castle as well, but I almost see that as a limitation of Castle being in it's early stages, rather than strictly due to design choices. I think the fact that in KK2 the entire figure is flooded with vibrant color is what takes it beyond authentic and goes to comical proportions.