Hinckley Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 Sammy was investigated to be a Townie. If Waldorf was legit, Sammy is Town. If he was naive, Sammy could be Town or the SK. Something's not right, because Sammy knew that Sue was Scum and it seems like he knew Adelaide's info as well. He said "supposedly Oak" maybe in case Adelaide flipped neutral. Waldorf could be legit and the Scum had a framer or Sammy is the Godfather...or there's an investigation-proof Serial Killer? What the hell? If one of them is Scum and the other the Serial Killer and the Town can't win with the Serial Killer...then are the Oaks out of luck?? Wait what? Sammy claimed Scum to you? My participle is dangling. Sammy came to us and said that Sue was dead and that she was Scum. How the hell did he know she was Scum?? I wasn't even told she was dead! Maybe Alder just likes Sammy more...
Tamamono Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 If they're scum and the serial killer, you keep no-voting. Then they have to kill each other. The game will end in a stalemate since if they both vote for you then whoever has precedence (probably SK) wins. I think it's two town to one SK though. I've actually used a SK that investigates as town before...
Fugazi Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 If one of them is Scum and the other the Serial Killer and the Town can't win with the Serial Killer...then are the Oaks out of luck?? This kind of supports the idea that Town can win with the SK... isn't it always the case? Nowhere in the rules does it say that Oaks need to lynch the neutrals in order to win. Anyway, if you're concerned about that, lynch me. I'm Oak, but if there's no Maple the Oaks should still win, right?
Hinckley Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 So, you want me to force a draw and let them target each other at night? Can I pretend to be the vig still? We could have a Mexican standoff. I can't shoot but I can't get shot either. Either Waldorf was naive or it's Lassie. I'm tempted to say vote Lassie just for the mechanics of it. After how scummy Sammy has been from the beginning? Lassie has seemed really Oak-y. Then again, we thought the opposite about Sue and Adelaide. Simon is the Bulletproof Townie. Or at least, he was until last night. This is another reason I doubted you and William...and Chester until he blew up. I didn't think we'd have four passive Town roles. But, here we are. And we had no other roles. Two investigators, a vig and a jailkeeper. Thanks Alder.
Dragonfire Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 Something's not right, because Sammy knew that Sue was Scum and it seems like he knew Adelaide's info as well. He said "supposedly Oak" maybe in case Adelaide flipped neutral. Waldorf could be legit and the Scum had a framer or Sammy is the Godfather...or there's an investigation-proof Serial Killer? What the hell? If one of them is Scum and the other the Serial Killer and the Town can't win with the Serial Killer...then are the Oaks out of luck?? My participle is dangling. Sammy came to us and said that Sue was dead and that she was Scum. How the hell did he know she was Scum?? I wasn't even told she was dead! Maybe Alder just likes Sammy more... Simon, there cannot be any Scum left. If there were 2 scum alive when Adelaide was lynched, then they would have won already and there would not have been a Day 8. I personally think Sammy is the SK, but that's just me. So, you want me to force a draw and let them target each other at night? Can I pretend to be the vig still? We could have a Mexican standoff. I can't shoot but I can't get shot either. Surely the bulletproof townie only has a one-shot bulletproof vest? Tonight, the SK will just kill the townie out of the two of them and the SK will win...
Fugazi Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 Simon is the Bulletproof Townie. Or at least, he was until last night. He soft-claimed vigilante to draw the scum kill (and succeeded). Simon is clear, Sammy. Yeah, I can't imagine Simon being a Bulletproof scum. But there's at least one non-Oak left, so is the real vig dead? Tonight, the SK will just kill the townie out of the two of them and the SK will win... If Simon is bulletproof, there's no way the SK can win.
Dragonfire Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 This is another reason I doubted you and William...and Chester until he blew up. I didn't think we'd have four passive Town roles. But, here we are. And we had no other roles. Two investigators, a vig and a jailkeeper. Thanks Alder. Yeah... 2x Investigator (possibly a naive one) Vigilante Blocker/Doctor combo Bomb Miller Vengeful Bulletproof All dead except for the bulletproof. Yeah, I can't imagine Simon being a Bulletproof scum. But there's at least one non-Oak left, so is the real vig dead? Yes, the vigilante is dead. Simon already said so. Simon, did your role PM specifically say that you cannot be killed at night AT ALL?
Hinckley Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 Simon, there cannot be any Scum left. If there were 2 scum alive when Adelaide was lynched, then they would have won already and there would not have been a Day 8. I have a lot of work to do but I'll explain later how there can be. Surely the bulletproof townie only has a one-shot bulletproof vest? Simon, did your role PM specifically say that you cannot be killed at night AT ALL? In case there is another night phase, I prefer not to get into the details of my beautiful vest.
Dragonfire Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 So I looked through my PM conversation with Lassie. Here are some tidbits of information which could or could not be useful. 1. Lassie was sure that the scum had scattered their votes on the Day 1 lynch. Looking back at the lynch, two of the confirmed scum (Barry and Sue) voted for Alastair; whereas Jack and Peter voted for Hazel instead. 2. Lassie was extremely interested in Alastair's flip and what it would be. 3. Throughout the period of our conversation (Night One to Day Four), Lassie maintained suspicion of Bruce and Simon, especially Bruce. 4. Lassie brought up the idea of a "janitor list" in the PM. I believe this was before it was brought up in thread.
Piratedave84 Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 I'm back!! Sorry the RCB took a lot of my time this week and work is crazy-busy! I did follow the days and stump thread as bet I can and this day is the culmination of a CRAZY game! So stoked to see what will happen today!
Dragonfire Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 I have a lot of work to do but I'll explain later how there can be. Imagine one of Sammy and Lassie is scum. Say Sammy, for example (it doesn't really matter), and therefore assume that Lassie is the SK. Day 7. Five alive - 2 scum, 1 SK, 2 townies. A townie (Adelaide) is lynched. Which leaves two scum, the SK, and you. Since scum have the majority, they auto-win. I don't know the mechanics of the SK role. When I've played with the SK before, its win condition was that it had to be one of two surviving players at the end of the game. Its existence did not prevent the scum from winning, but did prevent the town from winning.
Hinckley Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 4. Lassie brought up the idea of a "janitor list" in the PM. I believe this was before it was brought up in thread. For the night Barry was killed? Since scum have the majority, they auto-win. Here's where I think you're wrong. The numbers are taken at the end of the night. Right?
Dragonfire Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 I'm now looking at the voting record. Sammy's vote on Day 1 was for Bruce. He was the second vote on Bruce, after William, and was soon followed by Lassie, who was the third and last vote on Bruce. Neither of them unvoted and they didn't join the Alastair bandwagon. On Day Two, Sammy was the ninth vote on Catarina, when the bandwagon was in full swing. Lassie was the 14th vote on Catarina, voting after she had been hammered. On Day Three, Lassie voted ninth for Larry. Sammy, however, voted for me (Berty); his was the only vote on me and he didn't contribute to the Bobby or Larry wagons. He stuck out from the crowd. On Day Four, Lassie voted for Maggie, (now an Oak stump) standing out from the crowd by doing this. Sammy voted 4th for Hazel, and Lassie voted 6th (Sammy voted before Hazel's second selfvote and Lassie voted after). Lassie and Sammy both voted for me (Berty) on Day Five; Lassie voted third, before the wagon picked up, and Sammy voted seventh. On Day Six, Lassie voted first on Jack and Sammy voted fourth; his was the second-last vote on Jack. On Day Seven, Lassie voted second for Adelaide, and Sammy voted fourth, after the hammer. For the night Barry was killed? Yes. Here's where I think you're wrong. The numbers are taken at the end of the night. Right? I thought that as soon as the scum achieve the majority, they win.
MagPiesRUs Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 Oww, my body! Hurts so much! I told you a scum could have hammered Jack... Hey Adelaide, your acting really sucks. Sorry we lynched you. At the moment, my gut is telling me that n4275 is MDDC.
Scubacarrot Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 Simon, there cannot be any Scum left. If there were 2 scum alive when Adelaide was lynched, then they would have won already and there would not have been a Day 8. Actually, there must be scum left. That is what the rules say. If all the scum are dead, the town wins. The rules also say that if the scum outnumber the voting members of the town, they win. They haven't won yet, so they did not at any point outnumber the town. So how would that work? The only way for that to work is for there to be no serial killer. (anymore) So yesterday it was Simon, Sammy, Sue, Adelaide, Lassie. I think Sammy is scum that is why he's red, but I'll get to that. With Adelaide lynched there would be two scum, two town. How they must have been celebrating. There can't be a serial killer. If there is a serial killer the scum would have won last night. And now we have two town and one scum left. With Sammy's weird talk of not voting to win, it can only be him. Of course, it can also be that there is a Maple separate from the other maples that is also neutral. But that would be stupid.
Lady K Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 I agree that there has to be one scum left. Otherwise we would have won if all the scum were gone. What if its one of each, one town, one scum, one SK..... I really think that the scum could be any one of the three trees left. Both Simon and Sammy were cleared, but the godfather would come up as town. Lassie was never investigated. I'm inclined to believe Simon is Oak, but I could be wrong. This is a very intense game.
Hinckley Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Simon, who targeted you? I don't know. What do you mean? Obviously Scum. Probably Sue? Specifically, which person? I have no way of knowing.
Tamamono Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 I don't know. What do you mean? Obviously Scum. Probably Sue? Specifically, which person? I have no way of knowing. Gotcha. You told us earlier in the game that you'd find out who targeted you.
fhomess Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 The only way we'd still be here if it were 2 oaks and an SK based on how the rules are worded is if the SK's win condition supercedes the oaks and hasn't been met or we've been given partial information. After all, we did have a rules adjustment when the stumps turned up and the maples had to kill off all the voting oaks. The difference is that didn't fundamentally change the maples' goal, just clarified it in the wake of an unexpected twist. Investigation immunity and bulletproof options are both listed in mafiawiki as potential buffs to an SK. I tend to lean towards naive with Waldorf, as that would allow for both Simon and Sammy to be investigated as oaks. What matters is that at least one of the two has been doing a very good job of lying about their affiliation. It's also notable how they both apparently came up with the same idea of how to check Waldorf's naivety at the same time. So right now, Sammy seems like the logical choice to be voted out as the most likely scum. SK and oaks win. There is, however, something a bit disturbing, though. Sammy told us that he was told that Sue was a dead maple before the day started. I was told the same thing. Simon claims he was not told. The only reason to give us different messages would be if we're on different teams. So perhaps Sammy is the 2nd oak and Simon is a bulletproof scum after all. Maybe after getting cleared by the investigator, he played out in front so that he'd never get lynched, knowing that was the only way to off him? Maybe that's why he didn't care about the vengeful claim at first. Gotcha. You told us earlier in the game that you'd find out who targeted you. Which apparently he lied about?
Hinckley Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Gotcha. You told us earlier in the game that you'd find out who targeted you. No, I didn't. Where did I say that?? There is, however, something a bit disturbing, though. Sammy told us that he was told that Sue was a dead maple before the day started. I was told the same thing. Simon claims he was not told. The only reason to give us different messages would be if we're on different teams. But, did Walter tell you that Sue flipped Scum?
Tamamono Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 I'd quote it but I already got my penalties for that. Waldorf, back me up. He did say that, right?? Wait, no, I'm mixing it up. You only find out IF you've been hit, not WHO does it. It's time for me to clock out of this game.
Hinckley Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 There is, however, something a bit disturbing, though. Sammy told us that he was told that Sue was a dead maple before the day started. I was told the same thing. Simon claims he was not told. The only reason to give us different messages would be if we're on different teams. So perhaps Sammy is the 2nd oak and Simon is a bulletproof scum after all. Maybe after getting cleared by the investigator, he played out in front so that he'd never get lynched, knowing that was the only way to off him? Maybe that's why he didn't care about the vengeful claim at first. I'm checking with Walter about something but what you've said here is very strange considering the conversation I just had with him. So, are you suggesting I would be a Scum that the Scum clearly targeted last night and who let one of their own target a bomb? So, one of you is making an illogical hypothesis and the other is trying to get the other two not to vote. I'm in a bad forest... I'd quote it but I already got my penalties for that. Waldorf, back me up. He did say that, right?? Wait, no, I'm mixing it up. You only find out IF you've been hit, not WHO does it. It's time for me to clock out of this game. At least you showed how quickly Lassie latched onto it. I'm worried about my chances of surviving the day, little Stumpies ... I think I know which of the three possible options Alder gave me is the one I'm in.
Lady K Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 I wish I had something to help at this point. I am going back over everything I have.
Hinckley Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 I'd quote it but I already got my penalties for that. Waldorf, back me up. He did say that, right?? Wait, no, I'm mixing it up. You only find out IF you've been hit, not WHO does it. It's time for me to clock out of this game. I wish I had something to help at this point. I am going back over everything I have. Don't leave me alone here! I'm scared... Stumps!!! OK, We don't need to megabluck the codes. I have something. ALDR SUXT 1 PSBL n3372 n4209 n6609 n7019 doesn't want BREK ROL5, but n3610 n4209, maybe. You have to do a little work there. Sorry...
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