#10020?

[Holodoc]

Congrats on your new train Poomerio!

Good choice, brilliant train! *wub*

[Poomerio]

Yeah, there's no doubt on this one; it's a real beaut.

Just having it sit on my soon-to-be-finished circuit around my Lego City looks amazing XD

'Tis beautiful; though obtaining 3 10022s' will eat away at my

[WepneX]

Yeah, there's no doubt on this one; it's a real beaut.

Just having it sit on my soon-to-be-finished circuit around my Lego City looks amazing XD

'Tis beautiful; though obtaining 3 10022s' will eat away at my

[Poomerio]

Well I managed to find a 10022 going for

[WesternOutlaw]

Damn, that's awesome XD

I wouldn't dare smash my Santa Fe though; I love it too much *wub*

I knew you'd love it. I think when someone builds the SF and sees first hand how it's put together, you can really appreciate the design.

[Poomerio]

Oh yeah, that's so true.

All the small details. Yum!

I've almost finished building a new firehouse, and when the SF runs behind it, it will look sweet!

*wub* :'-)

- Poomie

[KarlMarX]

Would it be possible to motorize the 10020 with a RC motor? I only have the two RC trains an RC track and I really would like to add some more trains to it. I like both the Santa Fe's.

[Freddie]

Would it be possible to motorize the 10020 with a RC motor? I only have the two RC trains an RC track and I really would like to add some more trains to it. I like both the Santa Fe's.

It is, but I would advise against it if you're thinking of having it pulling it's associated rail cars*. Besides, 10020 is built on a red base, which would be replaced by a black one, which on top of that is two studs longer. It would spoil it's looks, as the 10020's design is quite finely tuned. The interior will naturally have to be pulled out to make way for the batteries, leaving only the engineer's chair left.

* - I know from personal experience that a single RC-locomotive no way can pull a full Santa Fe train through corners. Straights are OK, but the corners are the killer here.

[KarlMarX]

That's too bad :-(

9V is way too expensive to collect when you start with nothing. The RC track is half the price of 9V track. Also I like the RC control.

How many cars could a RC locomotive pull you think?

[Poomerio]

9V is way too expensive to collect when you start with nothing. The RC track is half the price of 9V track. Also I like the RC control.

It isn't that expensive.

I've started with nothing after my "dark ages", and I've been coping with the prices of LEGO :-)

Just save up some cash, and then buy some LEGO. That's what I do.

- Poomie

[Siegfried]

How many cars could a RC locomotive pull you think?

I have both RC sets, and while I do like them, they are not hugely powerful. The freight train has trouble pulling it's own cars on corners sometimes. Looking at the solidness of the Santa Fe cars, I doubt it could pull too many. I am considering making a few just to find out...

[MatthewUSA]

I highly recommend a motorized "B" unit if you want to pull all the cars. I am not sure if you know what I mean by a "B" unit, but basically it looks like the locomotive without the cab. You will need two motors for the train. I have done experiments myself and found this to be the solution to such a problem. Have fun and Model On!!

[KarlMarX]

The freight train has trouble pulling it's own cars on corners sometimes.

I never have problems with the freight train and its own cars, only in speed setting 1 the train sometimes does not pull up.

The ICE train runs out of the track sometimes because of the high speed it gains at full speed setting. :-D

It is recommended tot use only full batteries with high power. I use GP 2500 batteries and they works fine.

Is a Santa Fe with like three of four cars that much havier then a full RC freight train?

To add an additional motor may be the solution for a full lenght Santa Fe train with lots of cars. But till now I never saw a full satifying solution with two motors and one RC unit. It would drain the batteries very quick and also in the solutions I saw you had to cut some plastic off the RC baseplate... :-/

Edited August 20, 2007 by KarlMarX

[Freddie]

I never have problems with the freight train and its own cars, only in speed setting 1 the train sometimes does not pull up.

The ICE train runs out of the track sometimes because of the high speed it gains at full speed setting. :-D

It is recommended tot use only full batteries with high power. I use GP 2500 batteries and they works fine.

Is a Santa Fe with like three of four cars that much havier then a full RC freight train?

To add an additional motor may be the solution for a full lenght Santa Fe train with lots of cars. But till now I never saw a full satifying solution with two motors and one RC unit. It would drain the batteries very quick and also in the solutions I saw you had to cut some plastic off the RC baseplate... :-/

The RC freight train only has problems in corners because of the long wheelbase the short cars have. Easily solved by reducing it by two studs.

And for the Santa Fe, yes. It really is that heavy (to my memory the heaviest in LEGO Trains' history). Already at two cars will the Santa Fe be heavier than 7898. There is an enormous amount of bricks used for building those cars, with absolutely no weight-saving measures used. Bases are extended, interiors are record-detailed, roofs are built using 2x3 bricks with curved sides just to get the right look. I have myself never seen one run (my complete train is musckle-power only, as a motor will ruin the looks), but I wouldn't be surprised if even a 9V motor would be working hard to get one of these trains moving, despite it's wheel-spin inducing power.

Edit: Take a look at the building instructions for 10022 and 10025, might give you a better impression of exactly what kind of, and how heavy these cars are.

Edited August 20, 2007 by Freddie

[SavaTheAggie]

I have myself never seen one run (my complete train is musckle-power only, as a motor will ruin the looks), but I wouldn't be surprised if even a 9V motor would be working hard to get one of these trains moving, despite it's wheel-spin inducing power.

As long as you fix the passenger wagons to prevent them from scraping the rails, one 9v motor has very little problem pulling the 5 unique wagons. My personal Santa Fe is 7 cars long with two 'A' units with one motor each (I'm working on an unpowered 'B' unit just for kicks), and it runs very nicely. With all that weight moving down the tracks, the sound of the train passing is really great and nearly authentic. It takes a little real estate for the whole train to come to a sudden stop, too.

May I ask why you feel the motor ruins the looks of the Santa Fe? There's very little detail lost if you replace the rear wheel truck on the locomotive with a 9v motor.

--Tony

[Freddie]

May I ask why you feel the motor ruins the looks of the Santa Fe? There's very little detail lost if you replace the rear wheel truck on the locomotive with a 9v motor.

--Tony

It's the rear ladder up to the engine room door that gets lost in the process of motorizing it. It lines up perfectly with the ladder on the body, just like the front one does. Besides, I think the Santa Fe is close to perfection without the motor. *sweet*

Besides, I don't have room enough for a layout big enough for driving this train. 8-|

Edited August 20, 2007 by Freddie

[Poomerio]

What I plan on doing, is having the "A" unit motorized, as well as the front wheels of the baggage car (#10020?), as well as the rear wheels of the rearest car, which would be the observation car.

That way, it'll have pushing power, and double the pulling power.

- Poomie

[SavaTheAggie]

What I plan on doing, is having the "A" unit motorized, as well as the front wheels of the baggage car (#10020?), as well as the rear wheels of the rearest car, which would be the observation car.

That way, it'll have pushing power, and double the pulling power.

- Poomie

I'm not an expert, but I have been told that pushing can put undo stress on a LEGO 9v motor. I have seen first hand, though, that a LEGO 9v motor has more power in pulling a train than pushing it. Putting the motor on the tail of the train may be a bad idea, though that isn't to say you couldn't have a motor in the middle of the train.

If you do put the motor on the end of the train, however, be sure to make sure it is your slowest motor. place all of your motors without being attached to any cars on the track and run them around a loop. Place the faster ones at the front, with the progressively slower motors behind it. That way you won't have a faster motor desperately trying to push a slower motor in front of it, putting stress on the faster motor.

--TOny

[Poomerio]

Seems logical, having the slowest ones towards the rear.

By experience of things in general, I would say that it is easier to push as opposed to pull.

But wouldn't having more than 1 motor on a track slow all of the motors down anyway? Since they'd be sharing the current, thus giving each motor less power than if only one motor was present?

- Poomie

[SavaTheAggie]

Seems logical, having the slowest ones towards the rear.

By experience of things in general, I would say that it is easier to push as opposed to pull.

But wouldn't having more than 1 motor on a track slow all of the motors down anyway? Since they'd be sharing the current, thus giving each motor less power than if only one motor was present?

- Poomie

Yeah, but in theory they'd all be proportionally slower, so the faster ones should still be faster, even if th ey ar en't going their normal speed at that regulator power setting.

Another test you can do is to watch the couplers. As your train goes around the track, watch the magnetic couplers - there's a lot of give to them, so you can tell if a car is being pushed by the car behind it, or if its pulling. As long as it looks like there is tension on all of the couplers, none of your motors are trying to push the motor in front of it.

--Tony

[Poomerio]

Wouldn't the weight of the engine/car that the motor is underneath, affect its' performance?

Lighter cars would possibly put less strain on the motor, as opposed to a heavy engine like the Santa Fe?

- Poomie

[Landlubber]

By experience of things in general, I would say that it is easier to push as opposed to pull.

- Poomie

You need to shift some real heavy loads then I'm sure you'll revise that statement. There's a reason real trains have the engine at the front.

[SavaTheAggie]

Wouldn't the weight of the engine/car that the motor is underneath, affect its' performance?

Lighter cars would possibly put less strain on the motor, as opposed to a heavy engine like the Santa Fe?

- Poomie

As far as the weight of the engine/car affecting performance - absolutely. This is why I suggested watching the magnetic couplers as the train is in motion, since you'll never really know how all the variables will interact.

As far the individual weight of cars putting strain on the motors, believe it or not the heavier the better. In fact many big clubs add more weight to already heavy locomotives to improve traction. More traction = less slippage = less strain. That's how COLTC get's their 20+ car long Super Chief to run with only 3 9v motors (and many speed regulators on a ginormous amount of track). They've also had to buy special magnets to insert between cars due to the train being so heavy.

It seems silly, that more weight being pulled would add strain where more weight pushing down upon it reduces it, but it seems to be true. Of course, all things in moderation - you couldn't expect to put a five pound weight on your 9v motor and expect it to perform well.

--Tony

Edited August 28, 2007 by SavaTheAggie

[Holodoc]

...That's how COLTC get's their 20+ car long Super Chief to run with only 3 9v motors (and many speed regulators on a ginormous amount of track). ...

Hey Tony!

Do you have pics of that train? Or a link?

This sounds very promissing. *sweet*

[SavaTheAggie]

Hey Tony!

Do you have pics of that train? Or a link?

This sounds very promissing. *sweet*

I'm not a member of COLTC, or even in the same time zone, but I did some glancing around Brickshelf and found this gallery with a few pics of the train:

http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=118567

I talk with Troy C. (COLTC member, Troy's Surplus LEGO on BL) almost daily, which is how I know about their super Super Chief.

--Tony

Edited August 29, 2007 by SavaTheAggie