megablocks vs lego

[Asuka]

Kiddicraft? Whats that! X-O

You can read that very interesting story here, and, with pictures, here. :-)

[Siegfried]

You can read that very interesting story here, and, with pictures, here. :-)

Wow! *wub* I knew the story, and I knew about Link 2, but I didn't know that someone when to that much work to produce such an excellent essay on the subject. Thanks very much for posting this. *sweet*

[MatthewUSA]

Thank you Asuka for that link. I have never heard of Kiddicraft. A very interesting story.

[JINZONINGEN73]

larry marak

post Today, 10:34 AM

So unless their quality has been jacked up a HELL of a lot since 2001... you'd be crazy to mix the 2 brands together.

Quality control is MUCH better now than in 2001, especially for the trans-elements.

Ah, that's good to hear... ... ...no no, wait, that's BAD! lol

Nah, it's good for consumers I hate to say.

And MAN was their trans in need of revamping. It had the shape of Lego, but was dull and... well, really dull in comparison.

I look at it this way... Lego's had a decent run of being on top.

But bad decision after bad decision is hurting them.

So, if parents get duped into buying their kid Megablocks, they certainly can't be looked down upon for it.

I mean hell, where's LEGO's line of giant robots?

Where's LEGO's line of transforming car robots?

Where's LEGO's large trans purple canopies?

They just keep dropping the ball, giving us (I'm sorry, but LOL) stuff like Exo-Force.

[Jipay]

Quality controle has gone high ? Well, 4 months ago, I bought a megablock set to make a joke to the EB eventees.

It was a spiderman one. Crapy plastic, the bricks wouldn't fit together properly like they should. It ended up being trashed and detsroyed by some EB fellows. And I don't find them THAT cheap when you see the difference in quality.

[Asuka]

I look at it this way... Lego's had a decent run of being on top.

But bad decision after bad decision is hurting them.

So, if parents get duped into buying their kid Megablocks, they certainly can't be looked down upon for it.

I guess this is the hidden motive for many of us to dislike MegaBloks....

Usually a little competition is not a bad thing, but in combination with some

of the strange business moves of TLC.... 8-|

Well, it

[Shadows]

Quality controle has gone high ? Well, 4 months ago, I bought a megablock set to make a joke to the EB eventees.

It was a spiderman one. Crapy plastic, the bricks wouldn't fit together properly like they should. It ended up being trashed and detsroyed by some EB fellows. And I don't find them THAT cheap when you see the difference in quality.

That is high by Megablocks standards :-P

At it's worst, LEGO has always outshined Megablocks and both companies know it. MB tries to flood areas to undercut LEGO, but in the long run, they always lose.

Biggest losers in it all are the kids who have lame parents who don't bother paying attention to what they're buying. If you can afford MB, you can afford a slightly smaller amount of LEGO, or maybe if you put a little effort into it, you'd find a nice sale and end up with the right product at the right price.

Anything less would be uncivilized.

[natelite]

I don

[KMOI]

Quality controle has gone high ? Well, 4 months ago, I bought a megablock set to make a joke to the EB eventees.

It was a spiderman one. Crapy plastic, the bricks wouldn't fit together properly like they should. It ended up being trashed and detsroyed by some EB fellows. And I don't find them THAT cheap when you see the difference in quality.

I agree with Jipay. I bought one of the small Dragons sets just for kicks a while back and let's just say it wasn't pretty. The brick scratched even when I lightly traced the side of it with my finger nail. As for the "minifigs", the weapons and headpieces felt like they were made of some mutant hybrid of playdoh and plastic. I ended up "disposing" of the set by giving it to my condo's Christmas donation box for needy children.

As for Megabloks vs. LEGO, both ImperialShadows and Natelite have already put down what I'd say. When it comes down to it, LEGO just completely owns Megabloks, no questions asked. All Megabloks really has are a whole slew of improperly executed licensed sets which kids would buy because of the name. Sure, LEGO has licenses, but they're all (mostly) properly done and have spectacular rebuilding potential. With the possible exception of the Super Team line, Megabloks is and will always be a sad, pathetic imitation of LEGO.

[larry marak]

Quality control is MUCH better now than in 2001, especially for the trans-elements.

Lego

They just keep dropping the ball, giving us (I'm sorry, but LOL) stuff like Exo-Force.

Exoforce is both sad and hopeful. the brick to ball socket elements are useful. The lack of rear armour is rediculous. And the idea of fortifications in the mecha battlefield is falacious. Mecha exist because any target that can be located in a fixed position can be eliminated.

The Warriors Future force series (Mega, bad transclear elements had more realistic designs. But right now to get "real" mecha you either have to order Bandai/Mega Blocks Gundam robots (will cost you $150@ easy) or ATCO Transformer sets (they secured the brick rights to the movie and transform from robot to car without removing blocks) and they are also an Asian market only product.

[Siegfried]

Exoforce is both sad and hopeful. the brick to ball socket elements are useful. The lack of rear armour is rediculous.

Well it is Lego; there is nothing stopping you adding more parts. I generally do. Lego target kids with these sets so it is a case of an impressive front and a minimal price.

And the idea of fortifications in the mecha battlefield is falacious. Mecha exist because any target that can be located in a fixed position can be eliminated.

I can't say that I agree. Personally I think Mecha are a silly concept that will never happen. They may look cool, but logically there is no reason why a Mecha is better than a aircraft or a tank. I wouldn't recomend trying to apply logic to any Mecha based warfare as it doesn't make any sense at all. Human size power suits maybe, but robots as big as buildings battling other robots; visually cool but total fantasy. This is in the same category as Gandalf the Grey. (I'm going to be abused now aren't I? 8-| )

But right now to get "real" mecha you either have to order Bandai/Mega Blocks Gundam robots (will cost you $150@ easy)

For those that haven't seen these;

My interest in these is zero. Just look at the heads and hands; you might as well just buy a model kit. Design wise they are nothing special either; they are so simple that you could almost build one from those photos.... For a top of the line set I expect more. Personally I am glad that Lego don't have this license. Licenses limit flexiblity and I wish that Lego would lose the Ferrai one and go back to making geared technic cars. Replacing Exo-Force with Gundam would be a mistake.

or ATCO Transformer sets (they secured the brick rights to the movie and transform from robot to car without removing blocks) and they are also an Asian market only product.

I couldn't find these.

[highlandcattle]

I just come back from a retailers show and Mega Brands was showing of their new exo- force clone (box looks exactly like the exoforce ones) but the robots are more like bionicles. It was really sad , the problem with MEga Blok is that they just copy everthing. badly.

[KMOI]

Exoforce is both sad and hopeful. the brick to ball socket elements are useful. The lack of rear armour is rediculous. And the idea of fortifications in the mecha battlefield is falacious. Mecha exist because any target that can be located in a fixed position can be eliminated.

The Warriors Future force series (Mega, bad transclear elements had more realistic designs. But right now to get "real" mecha you either have to order Bandai/Mega Blocks Gundam robots (will cost you $150@ easy) or ATCO Transformer sets (they secured the brick rights to the movie and transform from robot to car without removing blocks) and they are also an Asian market only product.

I wasn't going to get back into this topic, but since you brought up Exo-Force, I'm much obliged to re-enter.

Exo-Force is a young theme. Sadly, the worse parts of the line have drawn more attention than what the best has to offer. For as long as man asked "What if I made this really, REALLY big" and LEGO has been around, mechs has been an essential part of the hobby. LEGO has made official giant robot sets as part of their space lines. However, as the space line shows, people's taste in robots changes. Robo-Force, Alpha Team and Mission Mars were some of LEGO's last lines involving robots.

Since then, the audience has changed. Kids today want to articulate the daylights out of everything, whether it be a Bionicle character or something as small as a keychain. Let's face it, those giant behemoths from Spyrus or Robo-Force weren't exactly Marvel Legends action figures. Even with their rotating hips, moving arms and grasping claws, Mission Mars mechs weren't up to today's liking. Articulation is a key in the younger crowds, and even if a mech lacks so much as an elbow, they'll start riots and torching storefronts. So, designers had to build a design which did the following:

1. Had articulation
   
2. Be stable enough to withstand play
   
3. Have recognizable designs
   
4. Be under a certain price point
   
5. Kids can build it
   

As you can see, that's quite a criteria, given that this IS a plastic block toy. Stability is not an issue for something like a building or a fire truck, but when you have a model which has a movement range similar to that of a human, you are bound to have a piece of the shoulder fall off sonner or later.

However, I want to draw your attention to items 2 and 5. These are perhaps the most important items on the list. I'm not going to lie. You can make absolutely phenominal things with LEGO. I, for one, have enjoyed making mechs of the 1-4 inch range in my spare time. But let's face it. Most of the stuff you see on Brickshelf can't withstand serious play. Nor can most children or adults build things like that. Let's take a look.

Can children of ages 7-14 build this?

Or this?

And all of the above could this withstand hours of play, without having pieces fall off? I think we all know the answer to this, my friends. Though we all pray and wish LEGO would make absolutely mind-blowing sets like Moko, Sugegasa, Izzo or any other designer we see on Eurobricks and Brickshelf, we all know LEGO wouldn't be able to. As a company, LEGO strives to truly meet the age limits they put on their sets, which means that they have to make sets 7 year olds can build. And let's face it. Unless they are extremely gifted, a child of seven years could NOT build like Moko. And inversely, a Moko creation could not stand up to the play a 7-year old. Remember, LEGO's recent motto is "Play on", not "Play, rebuild, then play some more on".

And this is why Exo-Force robots look the way they do. They try to emulate the human-estque feel of robots as popularized by Japanese anime while having to hold up the standards of the LEGO name and requirements set out by the designing team. I'm sure LEGO realized having a back wouldn't make much of a difference in the eyes of a younger child. While I agree that some of the designs are lacking, there are many which truly astound and amaze. In fact, most of 2006's offerings were above par, including the Striking Venom, Bridge Walker and Mobile Defense Tank.

As for the Sentai Fortress, your complaints are unfounded. Most giant mecha shows today have docking stations or bases from which the battles take place. Take Gundam Seed. One of the most explosive battles took place off the ORB's harbour. Even Evangelion and Codes Geass has a place where the mech resides when not in action. It's a part of the whole giant mech series, which as I said ealier, LEGO was trying to emulate.

As for the competitor's products in this area, I disagree that they are any better. In the "Warrior's Future Force" line, there are few mechas. Bad transclear elements, poor plastic quality and somewhat bearable designs. The "J-227 Quadwalker" was an alright set asthetically. However, that is by no means more "realistic" nor better than the Striking Venom.

The "real" mecha you have so stated, the RX-78 Gundam by Megabloks Japan, it is by no means a kids toy. Just by looking the price point, piece count and construction methods, it's glaringly obvious that this is NOT for 7 year olds. This product is targeted at predominantly teens and adults, unlike LEGO's Exo-Force. Similarily, it is a license, thus, there is no need to create an original design.

As for your claims of ATCO Far East Inc. obtaining the Transformers license to make block toys, I highly doubt it is better than Exo-Force. Having been to Hong Kong and Singapore many times (Both parents from Hong Kong, therefore I am Chinese), ATCO's products occupy a sliver in the toy isle, being absolutely overrun by LEGO. As for their products, I can only describe ATCO as a wretched multicoloured doppleganger of certain LEGO sets, almost copied brick for brick, but splashing it with colours that make Disneyland pale in comparisson.

Lastly, I have yet one more point.

Mecha exist because any target that can be located in a fixed position can be eliminated.

I disagree. While I know that is the traditional reason, that is by no means why giant mechas exist in fiction. In fact, your point would invalidate the existance of the Gundam and most certainly the Megabloks Quadwalker. Fixed targets can be taken down with missiles. Moving targets can be exterminated by high powered tanks and aircraft. Locating them is simply a task for airbourne drones. If you want to think about the real battle field, anything with legs is impractical. Why? Once you shoot the appendages, your massive, overpriced piece of hardware is toast.

But in fiction, having a giant, humanoid mech is a billion time more intimidating than a souped up fighter jet. In a mech, you don't just take out a target with guns. You smash it. With a giant fist. When you shoot things, you're frying them with a massive laser cannon. Mechs have legs for the sole purpose of stomping. The mech is first and foremost a rampaging machine of destruction and devestation.

They're not built for practicality. They're built to be awesome. These days, it's not enough to just have some standard, bland RX-78 Gundam. They're meant to look good while roasting enemies with a plasma cannon. They've got to be able to pose for Vogue while they level skyscrapers with their giant, robotic hands.

But why do mechs TRULY exist?

Because:

• We dig giant robots.
  
• I dig giant robots.
  
• Chicks dig giant robots.
  

Edited August 14, 2007 by KMOI

[Siegfried]

But why do mechs TRULY exist?

Because:

• We dig giant robots.
  
• I dig giant robots.
  
• Chicks dig giant robots.
  

Oh man! *wub* Today, you are my fourth favourite person in the world. (After my wife and kids...) I am not sure if you agree with my point, but I sure agree with yours. Every little bit of it. Very good post!

[gylman]

.

In the U.S. Mega and Lego price out about the same. The price leaders today in bricks are Best-Lock and K'nex, both of which are selling bricks for about half what Lego and Mega price at.

As for availability, Lego is continuing to lose market share worldwide. Mega is the sales leader in Spain, England, Canada (duh), and most of south America, where Lego withdrew several years ago. Apparently Lego is now number 3 in the U.K. behind Mega and Knex (which has always been phenominally strong in the U.K.).

Oddly, in Toronto, Canada, MB prices out about half of Megabloks. TRU has much more self space for Lego. MB is very prominent in the bargain stores, especially Winners, while Lego is almost gone from them except for Bionicle.

I am also puzzled about the "sales leader" information.

I had a look at the MB site. They only sold 112 Mil of toys in the 1st half of 207, even that fraction included multiple brands, including Magnetix.

By comparison, Lego in 2006 had income of 7.8 billion Krone, which is about 1.3 billion $, and these days really the only thing they sell is bricks / bionicle. I assume their furniture sales are not a significant source of profit..... :-)

So, looking at this, Lego outsells MB probably 6 or 7 to 1, or more.

Further, MB sales in Europe for the first half of 2007 including non-toy products were only 58 million. I think Lego does half their business in Europe, so they are probably crushing MB in Europe and England more than 10 to 1.

Also, this report from 2007 indicating that Lego share of the US construction toy market is 63%,. Unless I misunderstand this, it means everyone else added up get 37%!! And their lead is increasing...

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:5y1tF...lient=firefox-a

So, unless I have missed somehting obvious, I have to question the accuracy of your statements about who is the industry leader. I wouldn't be surprised if even Bionicle by itself is bigger than all of Megabloks.

[Asuka]

They're not built for practicality. They're built to be awesome. These days, it's not enough to just have some standard, bland RX-78 Gundam. They're meant to look good while roasting enemies with a plasma cannon. They've got to be able to pose for Vogue while they level skyscrapers with their giant, robotic hands.

It was indeed a pleasure to read that post, KMOI. *y*

Beside that, and beside those more interesting Japanese MegaBlok products (BTW, a very

nice information, larry marak and Sinner *sweet* ), I do think that MB perhaps already

has its own niche with those a little more organical looking figures and sets.... I really guess

that many kids like that style, like in, if I remember correctly, that MB Dragon thing line or

in their Pirates of the Carribbean sets.... 8-|

[natelite]

touche gylman! that's what i said earlier...without those glamorous links you so gracefully provided! :-P

while MB is mostly crap i think the kiddy sets are decent enough to buy, eg dora and diego mf as well as lightning mcqueen and tow mater sets. quality seems to be rather good. gotta scan them for lead paint though. these days you can't be too careful with MIC (made in china) products. another plus to go with lego sets. they are made in mexico. :-P

[JINZONINGEN73]

So, designers had to build a design which did the following:

1. Had articulation
   
2. Be stable enough to withstand play
   
3. Have recognizable designs
   
4. Be under a certain price point
   
5. Kids can build it
   

Though we all pray and wish LEGO would make absolutely mind-blowing sets like Moko, Sugegasa, Izzo or any other designer we see on Eurobricks and Brickshelf, we all know LEGO wouldn't be able to.

Then, something in between must be designed.

http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=39674

As a company, LEGO strives to truly meet the age limits they put on their sets, which means that they have to make sets 7 year olds can build.

Now do a search on "Riotflea" and see how many (dozens?) of kids did duplication mocs. Some blew, some were phenomenal.

And it's hardly any parts!

(That was 2003... it'd probably be even less with the parts available today).

I really don't agree that:

A. Lego CAN'T do a good-looking mech due to set cost.

B. Lego CAN'T do something good that 7-year olds can replicate.

If something's designed cool enough and desirable, kids WILL find a way.

I agree that a giant mecha like you showed is unstable, and that Sugegasa and Moko's stuff looks great, but is fall-aparty in the play area... but YES there's ways to make stuff similar in size and not junky.

The MAIN reason I got into Lego was the discovery of Technic ball joints.

I'd tried sculpting action figures out of modeling clay... somewhat disastrous.

So... Lego it was.

I saw the beautiful but unfortunately STATUE-like mecha on Brickshelf.

I saw the tiny, clever, but only-looks-good-as-thumbnail works of art.

Screw that, I said lol.

From there, it was primarily SOLID constructions.

If a part was able to fall off, I'd redesign the whole darn thing to avoid it. I wanted stable action figures I could play with... and accessories that could be shared (much like having a bunch of GI Joe figures and a pile of guns). My junk was basic, but it could be varied into hundreds of unique yet recognizable designs.

The failure I have with Exo-Force is that:

A: Their "Japanese" style looks about as convincing as the 900 million american kids who try their hand at drawing anime. A nightmare of giant-eyed, wannabe scribble.

B: Their mechs do NOT need to be that lame to still have stability and meet a price point.

They just need better set designers, period. And it's obvious from this and other lines, Lego does NOT have such people as that... at least not in any great number.

My interest in these is zero. Just look at the heads and hands; you might as well just buy a model kit. Design wise they are nothing special either; they are so simple that you could almost build one from those photos....

I agree that the design is simplistic, but that's okay. As long as the rotation joints allow it to be playable once the weight of a weapon is added, it's all good.

I agree about the heads, but there's not much to do about that. Think of all the GREAT Optimus Primes people have made... killed by the lack of tiny parts to allow for a proper head. Sad, but it doesn't condemn the rest of the Gundam set. What one of these companies need to do is make thin, stackable modular sections... like faceplate, eyes, forehead. Then add a bunch of color and shape variety to each section, leaving mocers MANY different possible character configurations. (And the parts are so small, it's not like production cost for many styles would kill their wallet).

I DON'T agree about the hands though. Are you not sick of seeing people plopping crinkly fingers on their mecha, made of bent minifig limbs?

How long till those "fingers" (robot minifig arms) get too boring on mocs as well? I understand your gripe, but a block hand isn't such a bad thing. It looks ok to most.

Lego ALMOST had it with Knights Kingdom forearms, but then they went and made them for only one side, so for a moc to have two forearms, it must be ASYMMETRICAL!

Wow, did that ever piss me off lol.

http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=2064041

Lego... for christ's sake... make a mirror image version of the Knights Kingdom forearm, WILL YOU?!?

Edited August 15, 2007 by JINZONINGEN 73

[Starwars4J]

anything with legs is impractical. Why? Once you shoot the appendages, your massive, overpriced piece of hardware is toast.

The same as if you shoot out the wheels or anti-grav on any other vehicle, legs are no more of a hinderance than any other mode of transport, and in fact are more favorable in unstable terrain, which is where they WOULD be used. And in fact research into REAL mecha use has found that the stability in legs comes from the legs being constantly off-balance to provide the overall phenomenon of stability

[*]Chicks dig giant robots.

Was this...was this a Megas XLR quote? I think I agree with sinner *wub*

Edited August 15, 2007 by Starwars4J

[TalonCard]

I suppose I should come clean and admit that I, one of the most adamant LEGO pursuists anywhere, bought a MegaBlocks set last year. Being the pirate fan that I am, it was, of course, a Pirates of the Caribbean Jack Sparrow set. I certainly didn't buy it for the bricks--it was the package that made me do it. It came in a really nice plastic copy of Jack's compass from the films--probably the best one you can buy as a toy. At less than $6 US, it would have been a steal if I also wanted the bricks or the figure, which I most certainly didn't.

I'll admit that the gap between LEGO and MegaBlocks has gotten smaller recently. MegaBlocks has upped the quality of their bricks and themes, while LEGO has decreased the quality of the bricks, and the sets, once pretty much uniformly good, have been all over the map for about a decade now. Some are excellent (2007 Star Wars, anybody?), some were just plain awful (three words: Cross Bone Clipper.)

Still, that gap is still there. MegaBlocks has a positively tiny range when it comes to themes. Their bricks still don't work well with LEGO, and anything that isn't a standard brick (bridges, figures, swords, trees...) is rubbish.

TC

[maiq the liar]

:-/ Mega-Bloks...Boil 'em, mash 'em, stick 'em in a stew...Waaaaait....

NO, YOU DID NOT JUST HEAR THE SECRET INGREDIENT IN MY FAMOUS HOMEMADE STEW...

anyway, i nearly cried when my cousin set megabloks as my computer background...

Not a big fan of them, but they have some nifty pieces (READ: Studs-on-both-sides 2x2...makes for SNOTing with the amound of bricks i have.

Edited August 15, 2007 by maiq the liar

[larry marak]

KMOI, that was one awesome essay.

[red]

This is a great debate going on. lol Anyways I started this debate on another forum as well and wanted to share a funny quote

I want to get some megablocks just to burn them and post the movie on here for you all to see

That would be fun to see, except you might die from the fumes of cheap plastic

The megablocks pieces dont even look as appealing as lego. The colors often look washed out, or dullened.

[Widdi]

I've got a megaBloks Racecar and used the 2x1 slope tiles of MB in a few small classic city cars, while back. They're compactible, and don't destroy the looks too much, but only if I WANT piece shapes in it, that LEGO hasn't made yet. Any other of my Brickshelf MOCs are pure LEGO. The virtual and of course the real ones. Besides that I'm a complete LEGO purist.

mFg Widdi

Edited August 20, 2007 by Widdi

[zouave]

I hate to say this but I can think of one time megablocks actually did better than Lego. :'-(

It was a viking set they made in the 1990's. It had a regular hull and sail but there were a few neat qualitys.

First there was a cloth covering over the middle that was pretty nice. But coolest of all there was dragon body on it with legs. The legs were connected to a system where they and all the oars moved at once.

But before you label me as a traitor, I dropped the ship and it broke into a million pieces. >:-)