Legal / Illegal lego builds?

[bemuser]

As a complete newbie to modern-day lego build, what's this about builds being illegal / legal? Who polices these builds? I didn't expect the Spanish Lego Inquisition!

[antp]

Danish inquisition, not Spanish :D

This PDF explains well a large part of what is "illegal" and why: http://bramlambrecht.com/tmp/jamieberard-brickstress-bf06.pdf

[Tereglith]

Legal builds are combinations of elements that are 'in system' and don't stress the plastic of the elements involved. Conversely, illegal builds are any that are 'out of system', as well as those that appear to be in system but cause undue stress on the elements. For a quick primer on which seemingly-legal combinations are actually illegal, check out this powerpoint by Lego designer Jamie Berard.

As for who polices them, it's Lego company policy to police their own builds internally to ensure that everything is legal and in-system. The last out-of-system assembly that I'm aware of in an official Lego build is the 1x2x4/3 curves being slotted into arch on Green Grocer. When it comes to your own builds, there's nobody stopping you from breaking all the Lego laws you want.

[talos]

Legal builds are combinations of elements that are 'in system' and don't stress the plastic of the elements involved. Conversely, illegal builds are any that are 'out of system', as well as those that appear to be in system but cause undue stress on the elements. For a quick primer on which seemingly-legal combinations are actually illegal, check out this powerpoint by Lego designer Jamie Berard.

As for who polices them, it's Lego company policy to police their own builds internally to ensure that everything is legal and in-system. The last out-of-system assembly that I'm aware of in an official Lego build is the 1x2x4/3 curves being slotted into arch on Green Grocer. When it comes to your own builds, there's nobody stopping you from breaking all the Lego laws you want.

You mean on the Cafe Corner.

[cgarison]

My motto in life is that for every written rule, their is a loophole to get around it.

[tafkatb]

And in this case the loophole is "don't try to get a job as a LEGO designer," because connections that overstress the parts aren't going to pass review.

[Faefrost]

And in this case the loophole is "don't try to get a job as a LEGO designer," because connections that overstress the parts aren't going to pass review.

But, as we see with the Helicarrier, on rare occasions, connections that had previously been considered illegal may be re evaluated as the parts themselves evolve and are re engineered.

[tafkatb]

Ah yes. In which case the loophole is "redesign the part."

[Jared]

Ah yes. In which case the loophole is "redesign the part."

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! ;)

Life's too short to "obey the rules". Lots of my builds have an illegal technique somewhere here and there. :)

[talos]

The gargoyles on the top outer corners of Arkham Asylum Breakout probably should be illegal, they fall apart with practically no help!

[anothergol]

To me, those rules are important because that's where all the fun is, the limitations.

Let's face it, if you use illegal techniques, you may as well paint your lego, glue them, cut them, use non-lego bricks, etc. That's nice if you're only interested in the end result and not following the rules, but THEN there are much better & interesting methods to get there.

You could assemble pieces from various model kits, use 3D printing or good old sculpting, etc - you would get much much better results than by using legos.

Don't get me wrong, I've seen amazing "illegal" or painted lego MOCs. The fact that they used illegal techniques only made them a bit less amazing to me.

I see it as "categories". If you fight in a specific category, you've got to do as good as the best in that category. You don't expect as amazing in the "legal techniques" category.

Now the problem is that those techniques aren't properly defined. Sure, Lego has a bible, and it's known what stresses parts & should be avoided.

But I haven't read rules about separating parts that come pre-assembled. Like small turntables or joints - afterall it's easy to break those.

Also something we see A LOT in MOCs is the use of minifig hands, I'm not sure if Lego would do that in official sets. It's often cleverly used, though, and using minifig hands is a bit like the Wilhem scream of Lego.

[dr_spock]

Life's too short to "obey the rules". Lots of my builds have an illegal technique somewhere here and there. :)

If it is going to be in a permanent store window, then maybe should be legal. It may not look good if stressed parts break while on long term display.

[notaromantic]

A LEGO morality, huh?

We each have the lines we draw and do not cross. I, personally would never paint LEGO, which always looks hideous to me, although I do cut LEGO. And I would never be one of those builders who use 1x1 round plates, strewn about to create a texture without being secured at all, as if they were just poured there for the sake of the picture; and I would never glue, but I have drilled into LEGO.

Do whatever you're comfortable doing. You have to live with it, I don't. It's your own LEGO conscience that you must consult, and its your build that must withstand whatever it is you, or circumstances, or nature itself, subjects it to.

But I do agree with what was mentioned above - its precisely those limitations, of the materials, that make using those materials challenging. If you want to sculpt, or paint, or mold, then by all means, go out and freaking get yourself some wood, or a canvas, or some clay, a material that will allow for those certain dynamics that LEGO is not particularly made for - because if it doesn't appear artistic, then it will come off as cheeky, like "Hey, look what I did with LEGO that's not supposed to be done. I'm so avant-garde..." Not really, because cheeky is, well, cheeky, unless there is some ingenuity somewhere within it or behind it or beneath it.

But then again, I've always been more of a Van Gogh kind'a guy, versus a Warhol kind of guy... But that's another debate.

Edited April 7, 2015 by notaromantic

[Jared]

If it is going to be in a permanent store window, then maybe should be legal. It may not look good if stressed parts break while on long term display.

Oh yeah.... good point... ;)

[Boxerlego]

Well First you must understand what is it your going to build with LEGO to determine whether or not Legal/Illegal building techniques will get you there. Basically put what is it your going to build ultimately determines how you go about building it. Most of the time LEGO is built with Legal Techniques because this is standard method of building. Then once you understand that form of building then you can elevate you building techniques and now welcome to LEGO Technic where today the Sky is the limit. With Technic, building the LEGO correct way has always been in a progressive evolution and the way to build was directly influenced upon with each new set LEGO produced. With these new sets came new LEGO parts that ultimately sculpted the way you went about building. Some could say that the creation of some of these New LEGO parts came about due to illegal building methods. Think about what Faefrost is saying here for a moment when it come to illegal Techniques.

But, as we see with the Helicarrier, on rare occasions, connections that had previously been considered illegal may be re evaluated as the parts themselves evolve and are re engineered.

This is what fun for me... Building with LEGO, Using your hands, Solving problems.

Building to me is more a skill. Legal or Illegal building techniques, LEGO building Skill will always be there and that is overall what is interesting for me.

[LEGO Historian]

Interestingly enough.... something that most people never realized was that the whole reason that TLG got rid of their earliest slotted bricks of 1949-56, along with the windows/doors with "wings" to fit into the slots was because this arrangement worked OK with 2 stud wide bricks, where the slots were in the middle of the side of the bricks... but when TLG started their Town Plan System in 1955, they switched to using a lot of 1 stud wide building techniques.... problems arose!

The earliest slotted bricks were just 2x2 and 2x4... with no problems for constructions... due to the slots being in the middle of the side of the bricks....

Here's a 1952 LEGO Automatic Binding Bricks catalog image showing how 2 stud thick constructions were OK for the thin windows that fit between the slots. In fact TLG even had art cards (similar to post cards) that would fit within the slotted bricks, so kids could make framed images....

Then in 1954 TLG came out with classic style windows/doors with wings for the slots.... and they worked just as fine as the earlier thin paned varieties...

Then in 1955 with the new Town Plan sets using only 1 stud think constructions..... problems arose.... and TLG created models that put a LOT of stress on the windows/doors as well as the bricks being used in ways they were never intended.... as this small house and LEGO garage model show...

So it was because of these earliest illegal builds.... that LEGO slotted bricks were retired, in favor of bricks without slots. And the LEGO windows/doors were redesigned without wings (for the slots)... and with studs on top to fit within the bricks.

It was this early illegal build technique... that modern LEGO would be born (after the introduction of tubes underneath 2 years later in 1958).....