Darkdragon Posted April 8, 2015 Posted April 8, 2015 Or maybe he talked earlier in Day 2 and has had sleep and school ever since! I've got two pages and a lot of accusations about people to catch up on, but I'll get back to you then. That could be it too.
Piratedave84 Posted April 8, 2015 Posted April 8, 2015 If he's scum, then your result would be town if the role was insane cop. But if we do confirm its an insane cop, we then have a legitimate cop by just reversing the results of the investigation. If dragonator died with a cop role, we may only have one cop left, unless there truly is a flavor cop too. You can't target yourself Otherwise I would do so myself Dave loves Mencot Like there is no tomorrow
Brickelodeon Posted April 8, 2015 Posted April 8, 2015 Investigate me Dave... If I turn up town, then the town will know that one of us is scum. If I turn up scum, we will know that Tammo is innocent. (that, or we are both scum).
Shadows Posted April 8, 2015 Posted April 8, 2015 Too many posts while I was sleeping, I'll just answer what I remember instead of quoting constantly. Draggy claimed to me, and I to him, because it's mafia. We also did the usual "if you're scum, convert me!" routine that we do every game. It was well before the end of the day. It doesn't mean we believed each other, but I don't think he was lying about this. If I was scum, I would have had no reason to privately share his claim with Tammo and can think of a few ways I could have used the situation to cause a lot of damage as opposed to simple confusion. This is my town game. I never said I was good as town.
Piratedave84 Posted April 8, 2015 Posted April 8, 2015 We need to lynch Tammo It sucks but it's the way to go I cannot believe we are even thinking We have to test the result of the investigating It's the right thing to do If we are to get through Mencot is like a flower Blossoming in the summer
Dragonfire Posted April 8, 2015 Posted April 8, 2015 If he's scum, then your result would be town if the role was insane cop. But if we do confirm its an insane cop, we then have a legitimate cop by just reversing the results of the investigation. If dragonator died with a cop role, we may only have one cop left, unless there truly is a flavor cop too. I'm pretty sure there is a flavour cop too. I've now been contacted by the person who had the flavour cop role yesterday as well, and they both chose the same item. So unless they are both scum pulling a hoax... and I find that very unlikely... we have a flavour cop. What does the flavor cop do??? Apparently it investigates someone's costume and finds out what it does. I'm not sure how that math works out at all. If Shadows is scum, why would he volunteer the claim info in the first place while there was already another cop claim in the thread? I have a theory for this. Shadows is scum. Whether or not Dragonator was the cop, he reveals the information to possibly discredit town-Brickelodeon and therefore to save scum-Tammo. Revealing that another cop exists (or making it up) suggests that Blackbeard's Hat could be the insane cop and therefore saves Tammo from the lynch. Shadows and Tammo being scum together is a plausible theory - look at Shadows' "worried" post about Tammo maybe being scum on Day One; or look at Tammo grabbing Shadows' item at the start of Day Two - giving scum the power over the vig's kill. Investigate me Dave... If I turn up town, then the town will know that one of us is scum. If I turn up scum, we will know that Tammo is innocent. (that, or we are both scum). There's an idea. Go ahead with that.
Piratedave84 Posted April 8, 2015 Posted April 8, 2015 Looks like I killed the conversation No talk = no conclusion What are our options really 1) lynch Tammo to verify the cop's hat validity 2) lynch Shadows to verify nothing really 3) lynch Brick to see if he is scummy Option 1) seems to me To be the best of many If not for Mencot I would fly solo I leave it to faith For him to be my soulmate
Dragonfire Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 1) lynch Tammo to verify the cop's hat validity2) lynch Shadows to verify nothing really 3) lynch Brick to see if he is scummy Well, the first option is clearly the best. We can establish a cop costume which is valid and it will enable us to get correct results.
Brickelodeon Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 We need the watcher to be on the cop tonight. I can guarantee that the scum will try to tamper with it somehow.
Dragonfire Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 We need the watcher to be on the cop tonight. I can guarantee that the scum will try to tamper with it somehow. Watcher and Protector, be on Dave tonight :)
Tamamono Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 *sighs* Tammo has me here. I admit it. I think he is scum because of the investigation and gut feeling. I have been trying to organize this town and come up good ways to prevent the scum from getting the PR hats. I will still be voting for Tammo when voting opens, but I have shown all of the evidence I have. Before I sign off as town-leader wannabe, I would like to quote Darth Vader. Tammo is scum, "search your feelings, you know it to be true". If it turns out that the investigator isn't insane tomorrow, I hope you (the town) aren't blind enough not to lynch him. Look, the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of it being an insane (or paranoid, now that I think about it) cop. Dragonator was almost undoubtedly also a cop as well, which means that the chances of one being insane/naive/paranoid/etc. is much greater - especially since we also have that flavor cop! I've been nothing but town this entire game, and the only shreds of evidence you have against me are an insane/paranoid investigation result and the fact that you think I'm a good player (I'm really not - this is my townplay). At some point, Brickelodeon, you have to accept that you're barking up the wrong tree. That's just the bottom line. Investigate me Dave... If I turn up town, then the town will know that one of us is scum. If I turn up scum, we will know that Tammo is innocent. (that, or we are both scum). If the cop is insane, this is a great idea. The problem only arises later in the game if it's paranoid... We need to lynch Tammo It sucks but it's the way to go I cannot believe we are even thinking We have to test the result of the investigating It's the right thing to do If we are to get through In most cases, that's the best course of action. However, in most cases, there aren't two cops, and there usually aren't many better choices for lynch. In this case, there are. There's no one way to play, honestly. You take things as they come and deal with them as best as you can given the situation. While I know that my death won't be the final nail in town's coffin (although it will contribute to it), I believe that there are better courses of action. We have fhomess, who took the vigilante action. Bob made a good point that maybe it's best to not keep it in the game at all - I'd personally like to lynch him. We also have Shadows, who I think is playing a scummy game. I don't know what his angle is in telling me Draggy was the cop - maybe to throw shade on Brickelodeon tomorrow when I flip town? That's possible, actually. At this point he's just sitting back and letting me get fried, enjoying the fireworks. He'd be a good lynch too. Then there's Zepher, who I tried to kill and personally still believe to be scum. I don't see his lynch going through today, but I certainly can't be the only one who sees it in him. Bottom line is that there are better options than me, and they should be considered. Whether or not Dragonator was the cop, he reveals the information to possibly discredit town-Brickelodeon and therefore to save scum-Tammo. Revealing that another cop exists (or making it up) suggests that Blackbeard's Hat could be the insane cop and therefore saves Tammo from the lynch. Shadows and Tammo being scum together is a plausible theory - look at Shadows' "worried" post about Tammo maybe being scum on Day One; or look at Tammo grabbing Shadows' item at the start of Day Two - giving scum the power over the vig's kill. There's an idea. Go ahead with that. I think you're on track with this except for thinking that I'm scum with him. He revealed the Draggy info (which I assume to be true, honestly) to discredit Brickelodeon when I flip town. Looks like I killed the conversation No talk = no conclusion What are our options really 1) lynch Tammo to verify the cop's hat validity 2) lynch Shadows to verify nothing really 3) lynch Brick to see if he is scummy Option 1) seems to me I think you're over simplifying it. I don't think I'm the best lynch here, and lynches aren't about verifying. They're about catching scum. This needs to be considered too: if you lynch me, you get a dead townie who - at least in my opinion - is useful to town. I don't get to be a stump this time. Even if that confirms the cop hat as either insane or paranoid, it doesn't confirm which. Insane? Paranoid? What if it's a paranoid cop action and after my death you assume it's insane and clear everyone who turns up "scum", accidentally clearing real scum in the process? And what happens if the cop action is tampered with or Dave killed? Everyone's calling for the protector and watcher to be on the cop. First of all, we don't know we have either of those (although a protector is safe to assume), and it might even be possible that scum has those roles tonight. This game doesn't function like most. Then what happens if scum gets the cop action and uses it to "clear" one of their own? This game is not what we're used to, and we should adjust our play to reflect that rather than blindly lynching the investigation result. If town decides that it wants to be rid of me, then I'll accept that, but it doesn't mean that I won't try to open your eyes to what's really going on here.
Brickelodeon Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 Okay, pardon me, but WHY THE HELL DO YOU THINK THAT DRAGGY WAS THE REAL INVESTIGATOR AND I'M NOT? This "overwhelming" evidence is nothing but guesswork and you believing Shadows when he says that he was contacted by Draginator. I really think that you and Shadows are working together to save your scummy skin. If you turn up scum tomorrow, Shadows is almost certainly scum as well. There is not evidence that I was the insane cop, there just isn't any evidence that I wasn't either.
Tamamono Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 Okay, pardon me, but WHY THE HELL DO YOU THINK THAT DRAGGY WAS THE REAL INVESTIGATOR AND I'M NOT? This "overwhelming" evidence is nothing but guesswork and you believing Shadows when he says that he was contacted by Draginator. I really think that you and Shadows are working together to save your scummy skin. If you turn up scum tomorrow, Shadows is almost certainly scum as well. There is not evidence that I was the insane cop, there just isn't any evidence that I wasn't either. The proof is in the pudding, dude. If there was one cop, yeah, my fate would be sealed, but there are two. Why would Shadows lie about Draggy's claim? As scum and as town, there's no reason to, and it's a believable story (the one thing of his there is). Since I'm town, the other cop must have been the real one. There's simply no way I would act how I did as scum. Revealing the vig was a pro-town move and you know it. There was no reason for me to, and to put my head out there like that and open myself up for investigation - that would be suicide. If you think I'm such a good player as scum, then believe me when I tell you that play like that is not my play. I have been completely committed to ensuring that this town wins the game. I've said it all throughout - my actions speak for themselves. You can't name one scummy thing I've done except that I "didn't try to get a block together" even though it's unrealistic to do so on the first day and I pretty much started anyway. Is mafia a game of mechanics and night actions, or is it a game of behavior? This is the same mistake that was made in Party Lines - the Speaker assumed that the vig was real and dismissed the possibility of there being something more than just the mechanics. See what's right in front of your eyes, and evaluate me for what I've done, not for what a faulty night action says about me.
Brickelodeon Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 Wait, so your entire theory relies on the fact that "you know that you are town"? That's the biggest load of bull I've heard since I was Alaster Pear. Also, why would Shadows lie about it? He's one of your scum buddies trying to save your skin.
Tamamono Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 Wait, so your entire theory relies on the fact that "you know that you are town"? That's the biggest load of bull I've heard since I was Alaster Pear. Also, why would Shadows lie about it? He's one of your scum buddies trying to save your skin. You're like a bull seeing red - you aren't able to see the full picture. My argument is not only that I know I'm town, but also that we know there were two cops, and even you're having doubts. I'm town and it's clear to everyone here.
Bob Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 I'm still in the camp of voting off the vigilante. Even though fhomess took it for seemingly honorable reasons since everyone jumped for a costume and ignored the helmet until there were only a few people left, it can still be dangerous. Looking back, I'm thinking that fhomess might actually be town and that he grabbed it since he didn't want Darkdragon or Dragonfire to get the helmet, as they were the only two other people who had not selected. If we do keep the helmet, we shouldn't all jump to claim costumes as soon as they come up. We should select someone early on, within the first couple of hours, and then select our costumes accordingly so when the helmet comes up, the right person can take it. As for the Tammo situation, I'm still getting a townread from him. I don't necessarily want to lynch him, but it might be logical course of action. If Tammo is truly town, he should allow himself to be sacrificed in order to test the costume, since it's for the good of the town overall. I mean, there's always the chance that there isn't a second doctor, and that Piratedave and Brickelodeon are both scum pulling off a scummy play, but I think there's only a minimal chance of this. Then when Tammo comes up as town tomorrow, they can just say that the costume was indeed insane. It's a pretty good plan I suppose, especially if the scum killed Dragonator, who was the cop and couldn't counterclaim. But that could mean that Shadows is scum as well, since Dragonator allegedly confided to him that he was the investigator. I don't know, maybe I'm just coming up with wild theories and ideas again. It didn't necessarily turn out so well for me last time.
Brickelodeon Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 Wait, it's all coming together now! Except for your argument, that's falling apart. You're entire defense is that you know that you are town. Well, let me tell you, every scum someone manages to "know that they are town". We have NO REASON to think that I was insane when I investigated you, you have just manipulated the town into thinking there is. You and your scum buddy Shadows have been conveniently putting two and two together to make five, and "prove" that you are innocent. Your entire defense is based on the lack of evidence to prove or disprove that you are scum Why are we to believe that you are town when you were investigated as scum and we have no reason to doubt the investigation? Let me just say: If Tammo is town (which I don't think he is), we will lose one townie and one hat that could potentially be used by the scum for a TON of evil. If he is scum, we have a clear path to another scum (Shadows), and we also gain the knowledge that we have the real cop hat. The pros far outweigh the cons. Don't get me wrong, I never want to lynch a townie, but I think the chances of Tammo being scum are much higher than they are of him being town.
Lady K Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 Wait, it's all coming together now! Except for your argument, that's falling apart. You're entire defense is that you know that you are town. Well, let me tell you, every scum someone manages to "know that they are town". We have NO REASON to think that I was insane when I investigated you, you have just manipulated the town into thinking there is. You and your scum buddy Shadows have been conveniently putting two and two together to make five, and "prove" that you are innocent. Your entire defense is based on the lack of evidence to prove or disprove that you are scum Why are we to believe that you are town when you were investigated as scum and we have no reason to doubt the investigation? I disagree with this. We have every reason to believe there is more than one investigator, three at current count. There was no reason for anyone involved in the Shadows/Dragonator cop hat to lie. You said you had a cop hat. And two people has confirmed to Dragonfire that there is a flavor cop hat. Yes you could very well have had the insane cop hat. It is possible. If Tammo is truly town then the result you got was wrong, you have to accept that. I really don't get a scum feel from him with his defense. But with the way you keep insisting that your result is correct and he is wrong is very scummy. If you are truly town you have to consider the possibility that your result was wrong. I agree with Bob that fhomess did a towny thing taking the vig hat to keep it in town. We could lynch Tammo, but I think there are other options. Many have not contributed much today, it's hard to get a read on anyone who isn't very active. We may very well have one or two scum getting town to fight amongst ourselves while they sit back and watch us lynch townies. Brickelodeon could be town, but I am getting a stronger scum read on him than on anyone else. However out in front and active is usually a townie thing to do. We need a good lynch for today, not just throw possible townies under the bus to check a night result or because they are being stubborn and not looking at the whole picture.
Brickelodeon Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 I'm not arguing that there weren't multiple cops, in fact I'm pretty sure there are at least two (blackbeards hat and the flavor cop). I'm arguing that we have no reason to think that blackbeards hat is the insane cop.
Tamamono Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 As for the Tammo situation, I'm still getting a townread from him. I don't necessarily want to lynch him, but it might be logical course of action. If Tammo is truly town, he should allow himself to be sacrificed in order to test the costume, since it's for the good of the town overall. I mean, there's always the chance that there isn't a second doctor, and that Piratedave and Brickelodeon are both scum pulling off a scummy play, but I think there's only a minimal chance of this. Then when Tammo comes up as town tomorrow, they can just say that the costume was indeed insane. It's a pretty good plan I suppose, especially if the scum killed Dragonator, who was the cop and couldn't counterclaim. But that could mean that Shadows is scum as well, since Dragonator allegedly confided to him that he was the investigator I realize I'm being lynched today, and if it means it will "verify" this cop - great. But as a townie I know that there's a better use for today's lynch (like lynching fhomess). Wait, it's all coming together now! Except for your argument, that's falling apart. You're entire defense is that you know that you are town. Well, let me tell you, every scum someone manages to "know that they are town". We have NO REASON to think that I was insane when I investigated you, you have just manipulated the town into thinking there is. You and your scum buddy Shadows have been conveniently putting two and two together to make five, and "prove" that you are innocent. Your entire defense is based on the lack of evidence to prove or disprove that you are scum Why are we to believe that you are town when you were investigated as scum and we have no reason to doubt the investigation? If you don't want to listen to me, don't listen to me, but this isn't a game of who can scream the loudest. My argument is based on my behavior and the fact that there are two cops. I do know that I'm town, but since you don't seem to want to hear that, I'll put that aside. You shouldn't be so sure of your investigation. I have made a myriad of points all day, and you have failed to respond to any of them. That's fine, but you don't get to turn around and strawman my argument. That's bad play and it's irritating. I'm disappointed. I disagree with this. We have every reason to believe there is more than one investigator, three at current count. There was no reason for anyone involved in the Shadows/Dragonator cop hat to lie. You said you had a cop hat. And two people has confirmed to Dragonfire that there is a flavor cop hat. Yes you could very well have had the insane cop hat. It is possible. If Tammo is truly town then the result you got was wrong, you have to accept that. I really don't get a scum feel from him with his defense. But with the way you keep insisting that your result is correct and he is wrong is very scummy. If you are truly town you have to consider the possibility that your result was wrong. I agree with Bob that fhomess did a towny thing taking the vig hat to keep it in town. We could lynch Tammo, but I think there are other options. Many have not contributed much today, it's hard to get a read on anyone who isn't very active. We may very well have one or two scum getting town to fight amongst ourselves while they sit back and watch us lynch townies. Brickelodeon could be town, but I am getting a stronger scum read on him than on anyone else. However out in front and active is usually a townie thing to do. We need a good lynch for today, not just throw possible townies under the bus to check a night result or because they are being stubborn and not looking at the whole picture. Thank you - this sums up the biggest issue here extremely well. We aren't playing a mechanical game here - if we were, there would be no reason to have human beings playing it at all! There are much better candidates for a lynch today than me. Shadows, fhomess, Zepher, etc.
Brickelodeon Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 Humor me here: Assume that Shadows is scum and lied about what Dragonator said. Give me all of the evidence saying that blackbeards hat is the insane cop.
Tamamono Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 I'm not arguing that there weren't multiple cops, in fact I'm pretty sure there are at least two (blackbeards hat and the flavor cop). I'm arguing that we have no reason to think that blackbeards hat is the insane cop. ...but you were just arguing that there are not multiple cops. The reason to believe it is because it fits perfectly. Two cops, and I'm clearly town (not just to myself, either - over half the town is backing me up here). If anything, there's no reason to believe Blackbeard's Shag is the SANE cop.
Brickelodeon Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 If anything, there's no reason to believe Blackbeard's Shag is the SANE cop. And this is what your entire argument is based off of. We don't even know if there IS an insane cop. You are just conveniently assuming that there is one, and that it is blackbeards shag instead of Dragonator's mask.
def Posted April 9, 2015 Author Posted April 9, 2015 It's a pinch early, but feel free to start voting.
Brickelodeon Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 And this is what your entire argument is based off of. We don't even know if there IS an insane cop. You are just conveniently assuming that there is one, and that it is blackbeards shag instead of Dragonator's mask. If Dragonator's mask really was an investigator that is.
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