Main Street Mafia: Day Two

[mostlytechnic]

Do you think there's still a possibility Sarah is scum? I'm inclined to believe she's town at this point.

Absolutely. Still think there's a possibility you're scum too. The only people I know are myself and the dead. Otherwise, nope, no one I trust here at all yet. Now, would I vote Sarah again right now? Not sure, haven't decided on my first vote today yet. But I'm not against voting her either yet.

Like I repeatedly said yesterday, I had no way of knowing who is scum and who is not on Day One. Are you accusing me for not being clairvoyant?

No, not accusing you of not being clairvoyant. Accusing you of voting just to be early on a bandwagon. You flat out said that's why you voted Sarah was to jump on a wagon, not because you had a real reason. And that's a poor way to vote. When I voted Sarah I made a case and wanted others to follow. You did, but for the wrong reason.

[MagPiesRUs]

I've also got a watcher claim, a doctor claim and a vig claim. Let me know in private if anyone's lying.

[Sandy]

No, not accusing you of not being clairvoyant. Accusing you of voting just to be early on a bandwagon.

Early?! The day was drawing to a close, and I knew I had a coffee break coming up! I don't know about you, but some of us work on a schedule here. It was my last chance at changing my vote, simple as that.

[Palathadric]

Why do you say that? Sounds like you know something we don't. Are you perchance the serial face-puncher? I was told via PM that I was punched in the face, so I'm guessing it must be some sort of night action.

Aren't PRs who are blocked at night, usually told that they are? :shrug:

I thought it may just be host-ploy by Bob, a "for fun" thing. He's done it before...sort of, but anyway, now we know you really were punched in the face.

[Palathadric]

Greg, I'd be very interested in knowing who you find particularly scummy.

I honestly don't find Al, Brian, or Sarah any scummier than each other.

I just don't really see extremely scummy in Brian's behavior. Al, I feel is more scummy. Butt then again it could be from this great murder/mystery novel about a political take over, in which his behavior was so very towny it was scummy and involved a false role claim that paid off very well. As for Sarah lurking could be scummy but I just don't see it at this point.

There are others with too few contributions or poor contributions as well.

I love this.

From your first sentence and the one that followed, you seemed to be saying that you didn't find Al particularly scummy. It's funny that you kept your vote on him for such a long while and you only changed when under pressure to do so.

You also really continually talked about the people who did not post much, but were unwilling to vote for them either (e.g.: Sarah).

Now, may I ask who you find particularly scummy?

I would like to ask the same of Sarah who has posted a fair bit, and made her voting statistics list, but failed to really reach any conclusions.

Shame about the three deaths, I really wasn't expecting Shirley to die this early on.

I still find this comment extremely odd. Why wouldn't you expect one of the most vocal, active townies to die? Unless you thought she was scum or something?

Greg's on my suspicion list, too, especially after Shirley was the only one to vote for him yesterday. Bit...coincidental...he died, wouldn't you say?

While I think Greg is highly suspect on many people's lists, I don't quite understand why Shirley being the only one to vote for him would be particularly telling? Were you expecting a lot of people to switch over to Greg after we already, more or less, secured the vote for Brian? Shirley was an obvious choice for the scum death, considering how active she was and how much she contributed, regardless of whether she voted rightly in voting for Greg or not.

It's more so that Shirley unvoted Brian, who at that point was already near lynch (Shirley's vote put him at 8), and so firmly voted for Greg. I'm not throwing any definite blame on anyone, but hardly anything is chance in Mafia, and Shirley would have most definitely (I think, at least) pushed for a vote for Greg today, if she was still alive.

Uh, as Shirley would probably say, that's really rather waffly. Your reasons for voting or being suspicious of people continue to be very weak, and it's like you're trying to make sure no one feels too threatened by you or something.

Shirley definitely stated, in no uncertain terms, that he thought that Greg was scum and should be voted out today. But I still find it odd that one of the best reasons that you can state for us doing so is because Shirley died.

If there was any relationship between Shirley's death and his vote for Greg, it would probably be that the scum would want to place blame on Greg, and not because they would hope that she would be able to slip under the radar without us noticing if Shirley wasn't around. No. There were enough of us who were suspicious of Shirley to rule out her being able to slip under any radar.

Shirley's death would make me reach the opposite conclusion as you and would make me lean more towards Greg being town.

But I really, really doubt there's any correlation between Shirley's vote on Greg and her death.

I think Shirley was killed because she was an active townie and useful town member.

And for the record, I think both you and Greg are likely scum along with Russel, but that may be wishing much.

[Lady K]

Well to answer your question Eric, I do find Sarah more scummy today than yesterday. As for my changing my vote, it wasn't under pressure to do so. Near the end of the day Al was more active with more helpful things to say and so I started to consider he was telling the truth about his role claim. And as I had previously stated the town needed a lynch, my vote was needed on Brian.

Now a question for you. You have just stated that you have a town lean on me and that you feel I am scum two sentences apart. Which is it?

[Bob]

Voting is now open. With fourteen players, it will take eight votes for a lynch.

[JackJonespaw]

Uh, as Shirley would probably say, that's really rather waffly. Your reasons for voting or being suspicious of people continue to be very weak, and it's like you're trying to make sure no one feels too threatened by you or something.

That's just how I am. We've still got..well...actually I think we've passed the first 24 hours, but once voting becomes official I'll start my firm opinions. There's no point in threatening people if your opinions change. I, personally, only think that threats should come after lots of thought processes and private decisions. Clearly you don't feel the same.

Shirley definitely stated, in no uncertain terms, that he thought that Greg was scum and should be voted out today. But I still find it odd that one of the best reasons that you can state for us doing so is because Shirley died.

If there was any relationship between Shirley's death and his vote for Greg, it would probably be that the scum would want to place blame on Greg, and not because they would hope that she would be able to slip under the radar without us noticing if Shirley wasn't around. No. There were enough of us who were suspicious of Shirley to rule out her being able to slip under any radar.

Shirley's death would make me reach the opposite conclusion as you and would make me lean more towards Greg being town.

But I really, really doubt there's any correlation between Shirley's vote on Greg and her death.

I think Shirley was killed because she was an active townie and useful town member.

And for the record, I think both you and Greg are likely scum along with Russel, but that may be wishing much.

Do you really not see any connection? I've said it at least once today - there are hardly any coincidences. Earlier, Al said that it's likely that Shirley's death came from an anti-town killer, which makes a lot of sense - why would we kill someone who was really helpful and vocal yesterday? I'm still inclined to vote for Greg today, therefore, of course, I'm inclined to think that he's scum, therefore, either he or one of his scum pals killed Shirley. It's not super complicated.

I still find this comment extremely odd. Why wouldn't you expect one of the most vocal, active townies to die? Unless you thought she was scum or something?

Mainly that in past...events (mafia games, I guess. How do I metagame..) the most vocal haven't really ever died during the first night. Just a pattern I've noticed. I never thought that Shirley was scum, quite the opposite, in fact, I thought she was one of us.

[mostlytechnic]

I'm still inclined to vote for Greg today, therefore, of course, I'm inclined to think that he's scum, therefore, either he or one of his scum pals killed Shirley. It's not super complicated.

Seriously, that's your logic? You want to vote for Greg, and because of that you think he's scum? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

[JackJonespaw]

Seriously, that's your logic? You want to vote for Greg, and because of that you think he's scum? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

I mean that I'm voting for him because I think that he's scum. Why else would I even consider voting for him? Wording gets a bit complicated, sorry 'bout that.

[Dannylonglegs]

Sorry I've been gone all day. I've been busy... purchasing... ingredients... for food. By which I mean purchasing Lego, and doing other chores and errands that are less important than Lego. Obviously.

It's more so that Shirley unvoted Brian, who at that point was already near lynch (Shirley's vote put him at 8), and so firmly voted for Greg. I'm not throwing any definite blame on anyone, but hardly anything is chance in Mafia, and Shirley would have most definitely (I think, at least) pushed for a vote for Greg today, if she was still alive.

Also, for everyone, here's the mess of votes that is Day 1:

Clicky!

Really difficult to organize in any chronological way, so I just put numbers in front of the order of the vote, i.e. Eric voted for Al first, so there's a 1 in front of his vote; Carl voted next, thus, a 2.

I did something like that too last night. page 1and page 2.

Also, if anyone's wondering, here are all my thoughts as a result of my review of day one that I've been working on while conversationing with a pal of mine. Those who died have been deleted. This was also before I found out Shady was scum, so I'll change some things after the spoiler. Also it doesn't include me, because I'm me, and I know what I am. Also, I promised that certain someone ten dick jokes today. I hope I can deliver.

Jjp: t? (Jumped on Dave vote. Nothing too suspicious)

Dragonfire: t? s? (Defends Kinto [not likely scum with Kinto] argues against Shady [if shady is scum, maybe so is DF?] voted Shady no explanation [town tell imo])

Piratedave84: T? (Can't get online)

Pal: t? (Started TPRU vote. Seems legit)

StickFig: s? (started getting serious too fast. Voted Piratedave84, but admits he'll "probably be accused of scumminess")

KotZepfk: t? noob? Inactive.

Mostlytechnic: s? (worthless summary, unfunny jokes. voted Jjp towards end)

Jamesn: t? (Generic summary. Voted bandwagon for bandwagon's sake. Noob?)

Trumpetking: s? (odd vote on Piratedave84)

TPRU: T. Oakiest of oaks.

Tammo: t? (his behavior resembles town behavior of previous games. I'm shit at reading him.)

Kinto: s? (Seconds shady vote. Other stuff.)

Sandy: s? t? (Points people out. Weird defense of Dave. Votes TPRU)

Lady K: t? s? (I don't see why everyone points her out. Maybe there's something to it?)

Dragonfire (Christopher): His "arguments" with Brian seemed a little off to me. I know scum don't typically try to associate in the day thread (maybe I should look at those who avoided talking about Brian?), but when they do, it's usually in the form of arguments to show they disagree, and are therefore, not aligned. That is what Christopher's comments reminded me of. That said, I don't know Christopher very well, so maybe this is standard fare for him? Either way, my suspicions are raised.

Sandy (Russel): I understand the points that have been made against him. They're good. Now, though I wonder if perhaps they are too good. Scum try to distance themselves from eachother, but it seems like Russel did a good job of making himself very close (by matter of opinion, as well as voting) to Brian. I could see this going either way. I certainly don't think Irene and Russel are both scum together. It seems like he'd be worth at least a test lynch though, because I personally feel like a good bit could be learned if we learned his alignment.

There must have been some scum among those who voted last for Brian, but it was still very close. If a few of them had voted for Russel instead, we may have had a no lynch. Also, the same people that bolstered the TPRU vote are those to look closely at as well. There will additionally be those who voted for TPRU who then would not want to be seen voting for the second bandwagon, even if it was right. Russel would fit that category.

I'd assume the scummies hit Al with a role block so they could deal with a vocal townie, seemingly Shelly due to her sound logic and leading a rather good charge against Brian, who, holy crap, was actually scum! Nice job town! Shame though we lost three of our own. Speaking of, anyone seen Shirley, my secretary? She hasn't shown up yet.

The three deaths say something pretty important too. We have a serial killer and a vigilante. If we run on a 3:1 ratio for townie to scum, there should be four more scumbums out there. Anyone want to share anything? Al can still claim who he attempted to block, or if he's even the watcher he claims to be. Either way, I want to hear his side of this.

I meant to comment on this earlier, but I didn't have the time at the time. I am still very suspicious of you, Ace. This post reads to me like most of your other posts do: as those of an individual just trying to appear helpful, while not standing out and sheeping your way through the days.

Shirley definitely stated, in no uncertain terms, that he thought that Greg was scum and should be voted out today. But I still find it odd that one of the best reasons that you can state for us doing so is because Shirley died.

If there was any relationship between Shirley's death and his vote for Greg, it would probably be that the scum would want to place blame on Greg, and not because they would hope that she would be able to slip under the radar without us noticing if Shirley wasn't around. No. There were enough of us who were suspicious of Shirley to rule out her being able to slip under any radar.

Shirley's death would make me reach the opposite conclusion as you and would make me lean more towards Greg being town.

But I really, really doubt there's any correlation between Shirley's vote on Greg and her death.

I think Shirley was killed because she was an active townie and useful town member.

And for the record, I think both you and Greg are likely scum along with Russel, but that may be wishing much.

These are actually some good points. Points I haven't considered until now. I need to reread things more carefully!

[MagPiesRUs]

I'll get it started:

Vote: Gregory McHenry (Lady K)

Based on just a general scuminess.

Irene is choice two.

I think Shirley really was on to something there after all.

Vote: Gregory McHenry (Lady K)

[Sandy]

I think Shirley really was on to something there after all.

I'm torn, honestly. How could Shirley have actually known something about Gregory on Day One? If she was a day investigator, then that might be plausible, but I'd believe she would have made a stronger case against Greg in that case...

But if the options really are Gregory or me today, then my vote is clear.

Vote: Gregory McHenry (Lady K)

I wouldn't let Irene off the hook, though, for her aggressive behavior. Or it might just be that the scum are laughing to their fake beards right now, flying totally under everyone's radar. I believe Ace is trying to make sure nobody notices him today. I am worried that Al has suddenly gotten so many role calls - if just one of those guys is scum, that's a hazardous alliance.

[MagPiesRUs]

I'm torn, honestly. How could Shirley have actually known something about Gregory on Day One? If she was a day investigator, then that might be plausible, but I'd believe she would have made a stronger case against Greg in that case...

But if the options really are Gregory or me today, then my vote is clear.

Vote: Gregory McHenry (Lady K)

I wouldn't let Irene off the hook, though, for her aggressive behavior. Or it might just be that the scum are laughing to their fake beards right now, flying totally under everyone's radar. I believe Ace is trying to make sure nobody notices him today. I am worried that Al has suddenly gotten so many role calls - if just one of those guys is scum, that's a hazardous alliance.

You and Gregory aren't the only options; the day is still early. If you think Irene is more likely to be scum than Greg, feel free to vote for her. I wouldn't be opposed to lynching her today either. Ace too, actually. Ace, why did you hold off on unvoting me yesterday until the end of the day, when you were present when I first announced I was the tracker?

You're right, I am a little wary of the amount of role claims that have come my way. However, unless someone contests them, I will be inclined to believe them. It's unlikely that the scum would be confident enough to claim such major roles at this early stage in the game,

[StickFig]

You and Gregory aren't the only options; the day is still early.

Gah - voting is already open! But I agree; here's another option to consider, someone who was defending Brian from the get-go on Day One.... kind of circumspect, but I would expect a player of his experience to be able to defend his scum buddies without drawing too much attention.

I'm getting weird vibes on the Brian and Al wagons. I can understand how you think Al's scum for jumping on Greg (when I think he was pretty much justified), but why Brian? That bogus stuff about "setting up" doesn't really come into play this early in the game.

...

Ping. Brian addressed this before you posted - he wanted to see how Greg reacted.

Respond to my points. Greg already had pressure on him, didn't he? What tangible difference would Brian's vote have had?

Vote: Pamela Cooper (Tamamono)

[JackJonespaw]

I've been saying this since the beginning of this day, so it shouldn't be any surprise - Vote: Gregory McHenry (Lady K)

Why? A weak defense in the face of accusations. When Shirley and Al voted Day 1, this was Greg's response:

Shelly, my valid reason for not being scum is that I am town. I have read in several murder/mystery novels about one character that always has a scum vibe of another even when the other is an innocent town member. Maybe that is what you are getting a vibe from me here.

Yep, fluff. As a defense. I do admit that Shirley's sudden vote and the Al's follow up vote with little reason given was a bit strange, but that would have been the perfect time to convince those two of town-y-ness. Yet there was nothing there. It'll have to be a strong defense to get you out of this one, Greg.

Also, wow. We're 24 hours into Day 2, and we're only at 2 pages. That's just...wow. Really unusual. I remember one day in a forest that went on for 19.

[Bob]

Vote Count:

Gregory McHenry (Lady K) - 3 (TinyPiesRUs, Sandy, Jackjonespaw)

Pamela Cooper (Tamamono) - 1 (StickFig)

[Lady K]

Well with three votes on me I will respond.

To Al, who was quick to jump on this vote with the same reason as day 1......because Shirley was on to something... really?

To Russell, Al is right, who said it was just you or me today when voting is just beginning? A quick vote on me when you think Irene is more suspicious is suspicious.

To Sarah, this I expected from you considering you have done this to me before with the same poor reasons and I turned up town then....remember the trees?

As for my previous defense it wasn't fluff, we are supposed to stay in character this game which I was because as a Res Q person (the only one) I read a lot of books. It was a reference to Shirley/Shelly about our past game experiences...she always suspects me with a vibe, but I did it in character.

I will also note that you, Sarah, voted quickly for me after I said ( in response to Eric) that I do find you more scummy today than yesterday, but I didn't throw a vote on you right away did I ? No, I didn't and it is because I am looking at all the options today and then I will cast my vote.

[MagPiesRUs]

To Al, who was quick to jump on this vote with the same reason as day 1......because Shirley was on to something... really?

This time, it's more because you lightly defended Brian yesterday and were content to vote me off rather than create a no-lynch. You left your vote on me even when it was clear that momentum was shifting away from me and towards Brian. Even when Brian equalled and passed me in the vote count, you still maintained you were keeping your vote on me because you wanted a lynch to happen. That seems odd to me. It was only after Shirley called you out on this that you switched your vote.

[Dannylonglegs]

Ah, voting has started once again. Today, for now, I'll be casting my vote for Russel. Vote: Russel Price: (Sandy)

My thought process behind this is that I want to peice together the puzzle pieces left over from the Sarah vote. The way I see things there's got to be at least one scum in that last minute attempt to divert the bandwagon from Shady. Whether it's the started of the vote (Irene) the second to hop on (Eric), or the third, when it looked like it might actually be a bandwagon (Russel). Any one of these might be scum (not all 3, imo), but certainly one of them. of the three, I don't expect it to be Irene, since the started of that last minute bandwagon could expect to get too much undesired attention, and it would be a very obvious move if a bandwagon did not follow. Similary, I feel that Eric would also not be the most likely scum, since there was still not a very big chance of a bandwagon then. Russel's vote though would have made the vote closer to the bandwagon the scum needed, so that's why I think we should lynch him. If I'm wrong we can test the others.

That is, unless this Greg vote is the result of a cop check... obviously if there's a confirmed scum that's who we should lynch. I just don't see what we stand to gain from lynching him instead of testing the Sarah vote.

[JackJonespaw]

Russel's vote though would have made the vote closer to the bandwagon the scum needed, so that's why I think we should lynch him. If I'm wrong we can test the others.

This makes a great deal of sense, actually. It would make sense for Russel to attempt to create a bandwagon to move the vote away from his scum bud Brian and to a townie.

It's your turn to speak up, Russel.

[Lady K]

This time, it's more because you lightly defended Brian yesterday and were content to vote me off rather than create a no-lynch. You left your vote on me even when it was clear that momentum was shifting away from me and towards Brian. Even when Brian equalled and passed me in the vote count, you still maintained you were keeping your vote on me because you wanted a lynch to happen. That seems odd to me. It was only after Shirley called you out on this that you switched your vote.

I would appreciate it if you could enlighten me to where I lightly defended Brian yesterday. At the time, because I have come to expect more from you, your lack of participation with thoughtful posts was more scummy than any of Brian's actions. As the day progressed, you came out with your claim and then proceeded to participate more actively. That then brought Brian more into the light as the best lynch option for the day. I had planned to switched my vote to ensure the lynch on Brian even before Shirley/Shelly decided to be........rude about it with the picture.

I was very surprised when Shirley/Shelly suggested the no-lynch. I am never a proponent of a no-lynch situation for the town nor am I ever content to vote off a townie.

[Sandy]

To Russell, Al is right, who said it was just you or me today when voting is just beginning? A quick vote on me when you think Irene is more suspicious is suspicious.

I said if it's down to you or me, I'd rather it not be me. I could vote for Irene for being so aggressively after me, sure, but wouldn't that be seen as more vote-splitting - the very same thing I was accused yesterday?

I'm trying to work with you guys here, but you don't seem to cut me any slack.

This makes a great deal of sense, actually. It would make sense for Russel to attempt to create a bandwagon to move the vote away from his scum bud Brian and to a townie.

It's your turn to speak up, Russel.

What more can I say? I already said I didn't really notice the votes going towards Brian, and thought Sarah was the likelier lynchee because there wasn't much reasoning behind the Brian votes at that time:

Vote: Brian Barnes (Shadows)

I'll explain it more later.

Yeah, fine. I'll buy that. He better have some results to go with it.

Unvote: Al

Vote: Brian Barnes (Shadows)

Ok, now that Al Cooper has responded to our concerns, I feel less worried about him and more about Brian Barnes. I believe I will have one more chance to get on and post, so I'm going to swap my vote now. If we need my vote to move for a lynch later, so be it, but here's who I think is the scummiest:

Unvote: Al Cooper (TinyPiesRUs)

Vote: Brian Barnes (Shadows)

I was supposed to be able to tell Brian was scum and up for a lynch out of that?! "I'll explain later", "I'll buy that" and "I'm more worred about Brian". You guys really think I am a clairvoyant...

I understand a fellow scum would want to steer attention away from Brian, but if I was scum, I wouldn't really be worried at that point. Brian didn't strike me as particularly scummy - on the contrary I was quite surprised he was, since he has been one so often in the past. I was just unlucky to go on a coffee break at the wrong time... If I had been around by the end of the day, I would have in all likeliness changed my vote, but that is neither here or there.

[Lady K]

It is the beginning of voting on a new day Russell, if you have a better candidate then present your case and vote accordingly. That would not be considered vote splitting.

[Dannylonglegs]

I'm trying to work with you guys here, but you don't seem to cut me any slack.

Sorry, it's nothing personal.

What more can I say? I already said I didn't really notice the votes going towards Brian, and thought Sarah was the likelier lynchee because there wasn't much reasoning behind the Brian votes at that time

I was supposed to be able to tell Brian was scum and up for a lynch out of that?! "I'll explain later", "I'll buy that" and "I'm more worred about Brian". You guys really think I am a clairvoyant...

I understand a fellow scum would want to steer attention away from Brian, but if I was scum, I wouldn't really be worried at that point. Brian didn't strike me as particularly scummy - on the contrary I was quite surprised he was, since he has been one so often in the past. I was just unlucky to go on a coffee break at the wrong time... If I had been around by the end of the day, I would have in all likeliness changed my vote, but that is neither here or there.

I'd say there's something of a 33.3% or a 66.7% chance you're telling the truth, but unfortunately, the way I see it, there was a scum on that last minute bandwagon. It's just up for debate as to which member of the vote it was. If you are town, then my next thought is that Eric would be scum. Irene is a distant possibility, and, as I said before, I don't think you and she are both scum.

If there was not much attention on Brian at the time, as you say, then that would be the perfect time to propose (Irene=scum) or latch onto (Russel or Eric=scum) an alternative bandwagon in an attempt to further steer the conversation away from Shady. Also, it must be addressed that the very small bandwagon of Sarah occurred very quickly. Someone (or multiple someones) clearly wanted that bandwagon to develop. My money is on you or Eric. I could go either way.