Hinckley Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 I have no idea how to make sense of this. The Brand/Tarden debacle is clearly interesting, but is incredibly mind-boggling in the defenses coming from Brand. The one statement I especially don't understand is the one saying he does not read Tarden to be scum, but does find him suspicious. Not only is that a difficult claim to follow, it makes me wonder why he brought up Tarden as a possible lynch if he only finds him "suspicious", after taking a fairly obvious joke as a legitimate claim. How do you believe a scumclaim to be true, but then insist that you don't scum read them? It just does not make sense to me. Nonetheless, right now I only get a sense of naïvety from Brand, but am willing to look into him going further. The Mist scenario is interesting too. I don't necessarily know how reasonable it is to make a lynch given her past, but metagaming has proven many times to be dangerous. Paraphrase: Fluff, Brand is weird but might be naive. Mist is interesting, metagaming is dangerous. No vote. Ping.
Hinckley Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 Yeah, Toki is probably Corrupted. Is Toki Trevor Knowles?
MagPiesRUs Posted July 7, 2015 Author Posted July 7, 2015 Vote Count Brand (Brickelodeon): 9 votes (Penalty x5, Palathadric, Chromeknight, Jackjonespaw, KingoftheZempk) Mist (Mencot): 2 votes (Dragonfire, Lady K) Lambi (TheLazyChicken): 1 vote (Tamamono) 12 votes are required to lynch. 38 hours remain in the day.
Tamamono Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 Is Toki Trevor Knowles? Yeah, he hasn't updated his sig. Vote Count Brand (Brickelodeon): 9 votes (Penalty x5, Palathadric, Chromeknight, Jackjonespaw, KingoftheZempk) Mist (Mencot): 2 votes (Dragonfire, Lady K) Lambi (TheLazyChicken): 1 vote (Tamamono) 12 votes are required to lynch. 38 hours remain in the day. Forgot his penalties. He won't survive today. Rest in peace. We should continue to discuss and get a different lynch if possible. Not sure I'm comfortable with Brand as a lynch.
CMP Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 Forgot his penalties. He won't survive today. Rest in peace. We should continue to discuss and get a different lynch if possible. Not sure I'm comfortable with Brand as a lynch. I know. You've repeatedly stated, many times, that you think Brand is loyal.
Hinckley Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 I am disturbed by how there are only 4 or 5 of us actually discussing things... Drop the fluff everyone. I want to hear your opinion. If everyone is lazy, the corrupted are sure to win. Speak up! Which Agnar and Dragstyrr have also pointed out as being quite scummy, and I'm inclined to agree with them. I still wonder what you're doing contacting people; you said in the quoted PMs that you obviously wouldn’t be PMing Pudding if you thought he were scum - at this early stage? It’s pretty early to have such a confident read. Recently you mentioned that Lodmund was defending his "scumbuddy" (Tarben) and I can't keep up with whether you actually think Tarben is scum or not. This seems to be the strongest case. I know Mist is crazy but Tarben is so inconsistent I feel if we don't lynch him today it's going to be an issue every day. This behavior will nag at us. I think it's better to know now. He's done more than enough to warrant being the first–day lynch. Vote: Brand (Brickelodeon) Oh right, and the penalties... Yeah, Toki is probably Corrupted. Really? That sounds definitive. Probably more than where your current vote is placed? That's a really excellent point, but I still don't really see it as a reason for her being scum. Then why is it an excellent point? We should continue to discuss and get a different lynch if possible. Not sure I'm comfortable with Brand as a lynch. "You could be scum - that's likely You could also be town - that's likely too" :skeptic: Vote: Lambi (TheLazyChicken) This is most likely a scum strategy to seem helpful while not saying anything. I don't really think Mist is scum. I mean, she could be, but if she is I don't think that what she said is a scumtell, is what I mean. It seems like she was just doing what she usually does, and I hate to metagame, but it's really not that odd. "I don't she's Scum, but I think she could be." You stink like piggy and not the good kind.
CMP Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 I'm still trying to add all this up and I can't shake the feeling that Pudding-Head might be onto something with the traitor idea. Me: Hello again mate :P I figured I would start my PMs with you like I usually do. You have the ability to tell when I am scum, I wish I could say the same thing about myself. Hopefully things will turn out better for us this time than the last two times we've talked in private. I know the game is just starting, so I'm really just PMing you to say "hi, I'm going to stalk you and stuff for the rest of the game". Him: No I'm scum don't do it. Me: :D Him (a day later): Dude are you seriously scum again?? Way to go man. That's not the response of a townie. The really weird part about it is that Brand messaged me before the ordeal even started. I remember having a dream that he was a tree and I got him cut down, and then I was a clown and he got me killed, but I'm not sure we're on "message immediately" standards. I'm happy to help a guy out, but not before he's even posted. They're not on 'message immediately' standards but they are on 'joke about our allegiances' standards?? I want to make sure I've got my ducks in a row here, because there's six pages of this nonsense now... 1. Pudding-Head is potatoed by Brand who relays the Tarben-Brand potato. 2. Tarben passes it all off as a joke and calls Brand absurd. 3. Brand spends the entire day posting the potato with his potato commentary and going back on forth on whether it was a joke or not and if he thinks Tarben is scum or not. 4. Tarben spends the entire day offering no thoughts on the situation save for 'I think Brand is town' and poking around at other suspects for different reasons. That about the whole of it?
Duvors Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 As I consider that Brand has been wasting our time all day by overreacting to what was obviously a simple joke, and will certainly continue to annoy us in a similar way for the rest of the game I will; Vote: Brand(Brickelodeon)
Hinckley Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 That about the whole of it? You forgot the part where Tarden wants to marry Mist.
Tamamono Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 That's not the response of a townie. What am I supposed to say before the game's even begun? I don't want to talk to anyone at that point. They're not on 'message immediately' standards but they are on 'joke about our allegiances' standards?? I'm sarcastic to most people, for the record. It was probably in poor taste this time, but eh, what's done is done, and even objectively it isn't scummy. If you suspect me for my behavior today, OK, you're wrong, but at least you're engaging with the game. If you seriously suspect me for jokingly telling Brand to not talk to me because I was scum, then you may be trying to get us to look at me because you're scared of what will happen if we look elsewhere... Tarben spends the entire day offering no thoughts on the situation save for 'I think Brand is town' and poking around at other suspects for different reasons. "Tarben does nothing except scumhunt and out reads" You said it better than I could have myself! I like to think I'm the only one who's offered a good lynch candidate for today. The argument for lynching Brand I can understand given how much grief we've gotten from him today (it'll be hard to put today in the past if we let him live - this is true), but I think he'll flip town just because the interactions between him and Pudding Head seem pretty genuine. When the dispute about the PMs came up I figured he was scum, but it's really looking to me like Pudding Head just relied too much on implied meanings of the PMs (as well as his own overstatement) which is what caused the discrepancy. And Mist I don't think is a good lynch for the reasons people are giving. The chances of what is most likely just ridiculous role-playing like usual turning out to be a Freudian slip are not too good. Lambi on the other hand has actually engaged in a common scum trope of posting but saying nothing at all (much like Toki). There's a much greater chance of her being scum. As I consider that Brand has been wasting our time all day by overreacting to what was obviously a simple joke, and will certainly continue to annoy us in a similar way for the rest of the game I will; Vote: Brand(Brickelodeon) Glad as I am to see that you get my sense of humor, I don't like that you're voting Brand because he's "annoying." What's your win condition? Is it to kill scum or annoying people? You forgot the part where Tarden wants to marry Mist. I don't take a position on Mist, only that I don't think her "Freudian slip" is as much of a miracle as you all seem to think.
Adam Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 "I don't she's Scum, but I think she could be." You stink like piggy and not the good kind. That's a good catch. Sure it's petty and vindictive, sure I've got no good reasons other than 'I think'. Sure twisty minded people can twist it to read it as something it's not and conclude wrong headed things about me. I don't care. Vote: Brand(Brickelodeon) It's like Mafia Greatest Hits in here. Why would it be acceptable to vote for someone and not give reasoning for it? You couldn't at least point to something someone else said and say that you agree with them? Hang on, I better stop picking apart your post, otherwise I might conclude wrong headed things about you! Saying, "If people try to question me, they're just wrong!" isn't an acceptable substitute for reasoning.
Duvors Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 Glad as I am to see that you get my sense of humor, I don't like that you're voting Brand because he's "annoying." What's your win condition? Is it to kill scum or annoying people? Tell me, would you want someone around who is guilty of constant contradictions of his own statements? Seriously, it's like he's trying to say two different things at the same time. That is just unhelpful and irritating.
TheLazyChicken Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 Tell me, would you want someone around who is guilty of constant contradictions of his own statements? Seriously, it's like he's trying to say two different things at the same time. That is just unhelpful and irritating. But does he pong you as scum? I'm pretty sure that's our goal, and just like somebody said, we shouldn't vote for annoying peeps but for scum members instead.
Chromeknight Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 It's like Mafia Greatest Hits in here. Why would it be acceptable to vote for someone and not give reasoning for it? You couldn't at least point to something someone else said and say that you agree with them? Hang on, I better stop picking apart your post, otherwise I might conclude wrong headed things about you! Saying, "If people try to question me, they're just wrong!" isn't an acceptable substitute for reasoning. Mmm. So if my reason is I think, that's bad. But if my reason is Agnar thinks and I bandwagonly agree, that's good? Brand and my interaction has been clear, and several people have commented on it already. He said he was trying to cast suspicion on me. I find that suspicious. Especially if he accepts (as he seemed to do) that I misspoke when I said vigilante instead of serial. As I said earlier, I'm happy to be examined. I know that I'm a useful loyalist. Some seem to think Brand and I are in cahoots and might argue I voted as I did to bus a lame duck teammate. My comment above was to forestall such a woolly headed conclusion.
CMP Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 "Tarben does nothing except scumhunt and out reads" You said it better than I could have myself! It just seems like your position - standing off to the sidelines, while Brand yammers away about you two, accusingly and then other times insisting he's not accusing you - is "yeah, okay, but he's probably town." This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Why would I try to get recruited before the game even started? Absolutely absurd Sometimes it's like you want to point out something fishy about Brand... The really weird part about it is that Brand messaged me before the ordeal even started. I remember having a dream that he was a tree and I got him cut down, and then I was a clown and he got me killed, but I'm not sure we're on "message immediately" standards. I'm happy to help a guy out, but not before he's even posted. His behavior in thread has been pretty genuine and pro-town to me, but hey, he's getting better every time. Might be a ruse. ...but then, oh, it's probably just some silly townie... Did he say he was worried about it or that he thought I was joking? He says he thought I was joking. Why is he saying two different things behind the scenes? ...I mean, yeah, I'm not defending him, look at this suspicious thing.... This kinda looks like two Einherjars going at it now... ...but I'm pretty sure he's a townie.... This isn't helpful. I think you're both Einherjar. ...seriously guys quit making a big deal out of this... Why are you trying to deflect onto me now? It's a bit late for that methinks. Didn't you dismiss your hairbrained theory after I spoke out in thread? I think you're an Einherjar like me, but this behavior is making me think otherwise... ...you're being suspicious but don't worry I STILL REALLY think you're a townie. It was pre-game. Literally no reason for anything pre-game. Sit down. And trust me, I'm not the type to try to defend my teammates, especially when I'm under scrutiny (somehow) as well. It jut seems like the kind of thing an experienced scum does to quietly try and get the spotlight off of an ally who's slipped up, a position I've been in many many many times.
Brickelodeon Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 Tell me, would you want someone around who is guilty of constant contradictions of his own statements? Give me a stinkin' example mate... I want two of my direct quotes showing how I have contradicted myself. I have tried to convey one idea since the start of the game. Also, the megabluck is your reason to vote me off? Because I'm annoying? Not because I'm scum, because I'm annoying? I'm pissed at you Lodmund, but I still wouldn't vote you off on the fact that you are an idiot... Get rid of the scum, not the annoying townies... After more careful thought, I know for sure that I will Vote: Tarben (Tamamono) I have clearly stated my reasons, but I will do it again just to sum things up. His PMs really struck me as odd, and something that a townie would not not say under normal conditions. Roles had already been sent out when I PMed him, so he knew for sure weather he was scum or town. Before this whole debate started, he had only posted a couple times, and those posts were 100% fluff. He is simply not acting like himself. I still hold to Pudding's idea that he is the traitor.
CMP Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 Give me a stinkin' example mate... I want two of my direct quotes showing how I have contradicted myself. I have tried to convey one idea since the start of the game. Also, the megabluck is your reason to vote me off? Because I'm annoying? Not because I'm scum, because I'm annoying? I'm pissed at you Lodmund, but I still wouldn't vote you off on the fact that you are an idiot... Get rid of the scum, not the annoying townies... After more careful thought, I know for sure that I will Vote: Tarben (Tamamono) I have clearly stated my reasons, but I will do it again just to sum things up. His PMs really struck me as odd, and something that a townie would not not say under normal conditions. Roles had already been sent out when I PMed him, so he knew for sure weather he was scum or town. Before this whole debate started, he had only posted a couple times, and those posts were 100% fluff. He is simply not acting like himself. I still hold to Pudding's idea that he is the traitor. And only now that Brand's screwed anyway does he finally determine that Tarben is probably scum.
TheLazyChicken Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 "You could be scum - that's likely You could also be town - that's likely too" :skeptic: Vote: Lambi (TheLazyChicken) This is most likely a scum strategy to seem helpful while not saying anything. Well if you want a definite answer, then I'm leaning towards you being a town member. I went back through some of the other pages and you made a valid point when you said this; This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Why would I try to get recruited before the game even started? Absolutely absurd What you said was true, there isn't any reason to get recruited before the game starts so as far as I know, you seem like a townie to me. By the way, its sceptic with a 'c'
Adam Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 Mmm. So if my reason is I think, that's bad. But if my reason is Agnar thinks and I bandwagonly agree, that's good? Brand and my interaction has been clear, and several people have commented on it already. He said he was trying to cast suspicion on me. I find that suspicious. Especially if he accepts (as he seemed to do) that I misspoke when I said vigilante instead of serial. As I said earlier, I'm happy to be examined. I know that I'm a useful loyalist. Some seem to think Brand and I are in cahoots and might argue I voted as I did to bus a lame duck teammate. My comment above was to forestall such a woolly headed conclusion. Clearly not what I said. I encourage you to vote because of your own reasoning and thought process, but you need to tell us what that reasoning and thought process is. Scum don't randomly defend townies on the first day. Townies don't randomly defend townies on the first day.
Hinckley Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 What you said was true, there isn't any reason to get recruited before the game starts so as far as I know, you seem like a townie to me. So you've conclude he's not a traitor. Great. So he's Loyal and not possibly a regular, non-traitor Scum because.... ???
Tamamono Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 Tell me, would you want someone around who is guilty of constant contradictions of his own statements? Seriously, it's like he's trying to say two different things at the same time. That is just unhelpful and irritating. You tell me, would you rather lynch someone you think is scum or someone you aren't sure of? If you think he's scum, that's fine, but it didn't sound like you did. It just seems like your position - standing off to the sidelines, while Brand yammers away about you two, accusingly and then other times insisting he's not accusing you - is "yeah, okay, but he's probably town." I get what you mean. It's probably objectively somewhat suspicious in hindsight. I worry about Day One lynches, really. I can't help but see both sides of the argument with them. It jut seems like the kind of thing an experienced scum does to quietly try and get the spotlight off of an ally who's slipped up, a position I've been in many many many times. My advice would be to not try to relate everything to your own mistakes. I've done the same thing. The question you have to ask yourself is this: why would we, as partners, be in this position to begin with? Give me a stinkin' example mate... I want two of my direct quotes showing how I have contradicted myself. I have tried to convey one idea since the start of the game. Also, the megabluck is your reason to vote me off? Because I'm annoying? Not because I'm scum, because I'm annoying? I'm pissed at you Lodmund, but I still wouldn't vote you off on the fact that you are an idiot... Get rid of the scum, not the annoying townies... After more careful thought, I know for sure that I will Vote: Tarben (Tamamono) I have clearly stated my reasons, but I will do it again just to sum things up. His PMs really struck me as odd, and something that a townie would not not say under normal conditions. Roles had already been sent out when I PMed him, so he knew for sure weather he was scum or town. Before this whole debate started, he had only posted a couple times, and those posts were 100% fluff. He is simply not acting like himself. I still hold to Pudding's idea that he is the traitor. What a shame. And only now that Brand's screwed anyway does he finally determine that Tarben is probably scum. Yeah, pretty weird. Might be scum after all. So you've conclude he's not a traitor. Great. So he's Loyal and not possibly a regular, non-traitor Scum because.... ??? Yep, this. Lambi is corrupted.
Hinckley Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 This entered my mind earlier and I can't remember if I posted the theory but it's possible Brand and Tarden are both Scum and started a fake PM to throw us off later. This has been a common Scum tool in the past (ahem ) but if that is the case here, Brand got over–excited and blew his fake–PM–load and didn't know how to handle me posting it. Why would someone be so adamant about not accusing someone of being Scum, just being suspicious of them. I'm still stuck on how weird all of that was...
Brickelodeon Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Why would I try to get recruited before the game even started? Absolutely absurd Day 1 hadn't started, but you knew what your role was. So this doesn't make sense.
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