Bionicle 2016 Story Discussion & Rumors

[TwistLaw]

Sorry. Insults to creative professionals like writers, designers, etc. are a pet peeve of mine; always have been. It's one thing to say you don't think a designer did a good job. That's just criticizing their work. Designers aren't infallible — they screw up sometimes and don't always know what their audience wants. And if they don't deliver, you have every right to criticize that. However, if you say they "phone it in" or don't put in an effort or aren't devoted to what they do, then you're insulting their character. That's a lot worse, in my opinion.

LEGO being a profit-driven company (as they've always been) doesn't mean their designers are mere drones who only value the company's bottom line. A designer doesn't even get hired by the LEGO Group, let alone get to a position in the company where they get to make big decisions about a theme's direction, by not caring about their work.

No need to say sorry, as I wrote I think you did the right thing. I am myself son of people who earn their money via creative work, therefore I know pretty well how unpleasant it is to be accused of laziness or anything along those lines.

Still, I think this time around it's pretty clear that BIONICLE is far from being a priority for LEGO. Saying they're not caring is preposterous and flat out embarrassing, but saying that the line is not getting the love the fans (and the creators, of course) would love to see holds an unsettling truth.

But then again, that's just my opinion.

[Dorek]

My, this conversation took a turn, didn't it?

I liked the clip, at any rate. Something about the combination of 3D/cel-shading with more 2D/cartoonish effects seems like a fun combination.

[Mesonak]

Yeah, I'm definitely in the camp that believes Lego definitely cares about BIONICLE to a substantial degree. I may not have personally spoken to as many people within the company as others have, but it's plain to me from the conversations that I have had that the current team working on BIONICLE has a great passion for the franchise and wants to do their utmost to make this reboot a success in the eyes of the fandom. I can understand how one may think the contrary from the outside-looking-in, but it's plainly untrue from my perspective.

Unfortunately, I also am of the belief that for whatever reason, G2 hasn't been given a lot of avenues to succeed, though I believe that stems from upper management rather than anyone within the BIONICLE team itself. I find it difficult to accept that in this day and age, unproven and brand new themes such as Ninjago, Chima, Hero Factory, and Nexo Knights all get multi-season TV series to help promote the themes when they launch, yet BIONICLE, a valued and beloved part of Lego's history gets relegated to 90 second online animations and a book series which isn't promoted whatsoever on official channels. Seriously legitimate question here: does anyone know why Lego doesn't advertise the books or graphic novels on BIONICLE.com, instruction manuals, Lego club magazines... anywhere at all? My local stores don't carry them so if it weren't for the online fan community I would have no clue that they were even being made.

ON THE POSITIVE SIDE, Journey to One looks absolutely fantastic and I'm happy to see that BIONICLE is being given the treatment it deserves in 2016. Time will tell when we actually see the show, but the production value looks to be quite high on this small clip, and I absolutely love the cell-shaded style they opted to go with. It's bright, colorful, and leaves an impact because its such a departure from the style of other Lego shows nowadays. I'm incredibly eager to see where this goes.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Mesonak

[Aanchir]

Seriously legitimate question here: does anyone know why Lego doesn't advertise the books or graphic novels on BIONICLE.com, instruction manuals, Lego club magazines... anywhere at all?

They do advertise them one place: their lifestyle page (currently, only the first chapter book is listed, not the second book and graphic novel, but those will probably be added at some point). Presumably this is partly because LEGO no longer sells the books themselves through Shop@Home like they did back in 2004–2006. Plus, they aren't even available in all countries, so LEGO might prefer to focus their advertising on stuff that has a wider reach.

And "big bang" themes get multi-season TV shows because of their immediate precedent. When Atlantis launched, it didn't get anything but a 22-minute TV special. But this was generally successful, so when Ninjago launched it got a 45-minute TV special. Since this was WILDLY successful, they signed on for a full 13-episode season, then another, both of which were also wildly successful. Nowhere to go but up, thought LEGO, so they started Legends of Chima off with a 20-episode season. This was successful, but not as successful as Ninjago. The theme only got two such seasons before it ended. In the meantime, Ninjago got back on its feet with an eight-episode third season, a ten-episode fourth season, and a ten-episode fifth season. These did well, so Nexo Knights launched with a ten-episode first season. Get it?

Contrast that with Bionicle. Bionicle isn't a part of the "big bang" category. It's part of the constraction category. And the constraction category hasn't been wildly successful like LEGO Ninjago in years. On the contrary, Bionicle sales steadily declined from 2002 until its cancellation. Then Hero Factory launched, never getting anywhere near what Bionicle was at its peak, and likewise it steadily declined.

It wouldn't be smart of LEGO to say "Oh, well, the last year of LEGO Hero Factory only got a 22-minute special and didn't even make it to broadcast, but you know what, let's give Bionicle a full ten-episode season right off the bat!" They'd have a hard time convincing networks to air that too, since they can't point to any similar themes in recent years that were popular enough to justify that. Instead, LEGO has to gradually build up to a bigger media presence. We're already seeing that, with LEGO going from around 30 minutes of webisodes in 2015 to an 88-minute Netflix miniseries in 2018. Considering 88 minutes longer than the running length of any of the individual Bionicle movies, I think it's fair to say the Bionicle reboot is doing pretty well for itself.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Aanchir

[TFGuy89]

They do advertise them one place: their lifestyle page (currently, only the first chapter book is listed, not the second book and graphic novel, but those will probably be added at some point). Presumably this is partly because LEGO no longer sells the books themselves through Shop@Home like they did back in 2004–2006. Plus, they aren't even available in all countries, so LEGO might prefer to focus their advertising on stuff that has a wider reach.

And "big bang" themes get multi-season TV shows because of their immediate precedent. When Atlantis launched, it didn't get anything but a 22-minute TV special. But this was generally successful, so when Ninjago launched it got a 45-minute TV special. Since this was WILDLY successful, they signed on for a full 13-episode season, then another, both of which were also wildly successful. Nowhere to go but up, thought LEGO, so they started Legends of Chima off with a 20-episode season. This was successful, but not as successful as Ninjago. The theme only got two such seasons before it ended. In the meantime, Ninjago got back on its feet with an eight-episode third season, a ten-episode fourth season, and a ten-episode fifth season. These did well, so Nexo Knights launched with a ten-episode first season. Get it?

Contrast that with Bionicle. Bionicle isn't a part of the "big bang" category. It's part of the constraction category. And the constraction category hasn't been wildly successful like LEGO Ninjago in years. On the contrary, Bionicle sales steadily declined from 2002 until its cancellation. Then Hero Factory launched, never getting anywhere near what Bionicle was at its peak, and likewise it steadily declined.

It wouldn't be smart of LEGO to say "Oh, well, the last year of LEGO Hero Factory only got a 22-minute special and didn't even make it to broadcast, but you know what, let's give Bionicle a full ten-episode season right off the bat!" They'd have a hard time convincing networks to air that too, since they can't point to any similar themes in recent years that were popular enough to justify that. Instead, LEGO has to gradually build up to a bigger media presence. We're already seeing that, with LEGO going from around 30 minutes of webisodes in 2015 to an 88-minute Netflix miniseries in 2018. Considering 88 minutes longer than the running length of any of the individual Bionicle movies, I think it's fair to say the Bionicle reboot is doing pretty well for itself.

As usual, spot on analysis. I do hope that if Bionicle continues to be successful we may get even more in 2017.

[Mesonak]

Get it?

I actually do; when you outline the recent history of Lego's TV show experiences in chronological order like that, it actually does make a lot of sense. Being primarily a BIONICLE fan, I often view the line's old popularity as reason enough to justify faith in G2 getting a larger media presence, but while that sentiment is nice, it doesn't line up with the facts as viewed from a business perspective. The comment about HF, in particular, really helped things click for me; due to the rather... different nature of HF's fnal year, I often forget that Invasion from Below never actually made it to broadcast. It's pretty unfortunate to think about, but that would explain quite a lot. :/

[Logan McOwen]

The new animation is lush. While Tahu's character model isn't quite matched to the set, it's close enough for my liking. The mix of 2D and 3D animation makes for a really satisfying stylistic choice, blending in the mechanical look of the characters with the storybook feel of last year's webisodes really well.

[One Very Agile Cat]

My, this conversation took a turn, didn't it?

Seems to be what happens when you try and judge Lego to the standards of everything else.

But it's extremely insulting to insist writers, designers, and marketers don't actually care about what they create just because you don't appreciate the decisions they've made with it.

Then where's the quality to show for it?

BTW, I never said the writers/creators/etc didn't care, but that it doesn't show in their work. You don't get the clear sense that there's passion behind this like some elements of G1, there's little communication with the fanbase, and very, very lax story. (and what's there is terribly written) I'm sure the people do care on some level, but man if it isn't totally drowned out by the sound of Lego's cost-cutting and mandates for a simpler story. Creativity is being stiffled in favour of the easily-digested and surface-level.

Perhaps the creators of the Bionicle reboot don't care about what you think personally, but judging from your general ignorance and willingness to assume the worst of them, they probably shouldn't.

Judging by your fanatic responses I'd think you were one of them, except I know even someone who was attached to Bionicle probably wouldn't get so offended. Only fans could feel so insulted on someone's behalf, even if those fans have no idea who actually is being insulted. Probably because they know it's more than fair to judge people based on their work. You make something bad, it reflects on you. That's how this works. Tell me, do you get up-in-arms whenever anyone else calls anything else lazy? (which I didn't do) Or just when you have a convenient target?

Still, I think this time around it's pretty clear that BIONICLE is far from being a priority for LEGO. Saying they're not caring is preposterous and flat out embarrassing, but saying that the line is not getting the love the fans (and the creators, of course) would love to see holds an unsettling truth.

But then again, that's just my opinion.

Which is exactly my point. Whatever care is being given to Bionicle G2 is imperceptible behind all the grunge and frustration of reviving a line beloved for it's entrenched story and characters only to completely water it down and remove everything that made it great.

You can't say that doesn't sting a little.

Edited January 26, 2016 by One Very Agile Cat

[dviddy]

Except that beloved entrenched story was poorly written, just as inconsistent between media forms, handled with no real schedule in updates and promised content, consistently had games and features removed to cut costs at the last minute, etc. It was plagued with qc issues in the end, and that entrenched story was meandering and incomplete, and led to mass fan backlash and boat-jumping. It kept the fanatical elements of the base talking and engaged while alienating casual fans. You remember it happily and that's great, but don't pretend these issues haven't always existed.

[One Very Agile Cat]

You remember it happily and that's great, but don't pretend these issues haven't always existed.

Oh absolutely. I was completely checked out by the end of it. The serials were a mess and truthfully it felt like it should've ended three times. That's why I carefully chose to say "beloved by fans" and not "it was great."

But the level of world building and focus on characters just doesn't exist in G2 like G1. I mean really, ignoring comparrisons to G1, since I'm well aware this is nothing like G1 and is not bound by continuity or even having to be anything like it, it's just not good. I still like G2 plenty, but much like I'll freely admit G1 had it's problems, I'm calling G2 for what it is: a stunted, corperate-mandated, weak story with some good toys going along with it. G1 had flaws because it had too much going on, had inept writing and not enough focus, G2's flaws seem to be because Lego is making it be a lower quality.

But who knows, Journey to One may totally turn things around and give something substancial to latch onto. Maybe it'll be the MNOLG of G2.

Edited January 26, 2016 by One Very Agile Cat

[TwistLaw]

I never read a G1 book.

Is the writing really that bad? Island of lost masks was pretty average tbh.

[Dorek]

I never read a G1 book.

Is the writing really that bad? Island of lost masks was pretty average tbh.

No, the G1 writing was pretty solid across the board. People give Greg a lot of flack for his revisionist history approaches these days, but he was the main man for a number of reasons back then, and the way the books were written was a part of that.

[Kalta the Noble Mind]

is it just me or was Journy to One going to be the first Netflix exclusive Lego show? since all other shows seem to be on various tv networks.

if so coulld it mean we may have more "mature" (plot and drama heavy) tone than ninjago or nexo knights? kind of like how the marvel netflix shows are way more mature and hardcore than the movies and ABC series because the platform allowed such stuff. if i make sense.

also is Journy to one done by the same studio as the web episode? cuz it looks like they went back to the original style they wanted for the shorts. paintelry effects and pseudo 3d by way of cel shading.

[Voxovan]

is it just me or was Journy to One going to be the first Netflix exclusive Lego show? since all other shows seem to be on various tv networks.

if so coulld it mean we may have more "mature" (plot and drama heavy) tone than ninjago or nexo knights? kind of like how the marvel netflix shows are way more mature and hardcore than the movies and ABC series because the platform allowed such stuff. if i make sense.

also is Journy to one done by the same studio as the web episode? cuz it looks like they went back to the original style they wanted for the shorts. paintelry effects and pseudo 3d by way of cel shading.

Journey to One is done by another studio, and it's not the first and only Netflix exclusive Lego show, Lego Friends is getting a Netflix show the same time as Bionicle.

[TwistLaw]

No, the G1 writing was pretty solid across the board. People give Greg a lot of flack for his revisionist history approaches these days, but he was the main man for a number of reasons back then, and the way the books were written was a part of that.

Oh, I see. So it's all part of that "G1 sucked" revisionism that seems so popular these days at EB.

As for me, I know just about the main plot and it still amazes me how well the main storyline clicked together. Only thing I dislike is the Red Star resurrecting thing.

[Voxovan]

Lewa's video is up!

[Dorek]

Are those Skull Spiders he dispatches? Good to see some things don't get forgotten.

[TwistLaw]

https://www.facebook...614854/?theater

Lewa's video is up!

So, it looks like the crystal add-on can have its flaming part being turned on and off (look at 0:05). Cool!

Also Akida can fly, lol.

[MrHerofan]

I think I've realized my problem with the animation. It looks like the toa are on a green screen. Just the way the background and toa interact is just strange to me. I like their movements and all, they look pretty accurate, the shading is good and all, but something seem off to me.

[DraikNova]

I think I've realized my problem with the animation. It looks like the toa are on a green screen. Just the way the background and toa interact is just strange to me. I like their movements and all, they look pretty accurate, the shading is good and all, but something seem off to me.

Yup, exactly my issue with it. They stand out way too much. The background is stylized and 2d-ish, while the toa are ridiculously detailed, outlined and fully 3d.

[TwistLaw]

The Toa look like are generated by a PS4 while the backgrounds by a 3DS.

Anyway, I don't see good things for this series. I feel kids won't like it.

[Aanchir]

I actually quite like the interplay of the detailed character designs and more simplified effects and scenery, myself.

[Voxovan]

I actually quite like the interplay of the detailed character designs and more simplified effects and scenery, myself.

Me too, it creates a nice contrast.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Voxovan

[Dorek]

I actually quite like the interplay of the detailed character designs and more simplified effects and scenery, myself.

Yeah, I like it too. I can see in some places where it might look more cost-cutting instead of stylistic, but the final product should hopefully be able to balance the contrast.

[Strakk]

Personally I don't like the animation style. It reminds me of the Piraka animations.

Still I'd like to see a whole scene before writing a final opinion.