Ragnarök Now 3: Day Ten

[Chromeknight]

Looking at the numbers, I'm fairly confident that any of these plans will work, but only if both Cranebeinn and Pudding Head are town. If they're not, then like I said before, we are straight donkey-f*cked. If we had more townies alive, we could entertain the notion of Cranebeinn or Pudding Head being scum, but I think it's too late for that.

Yeah. Keep thinking.

Perhaps we need a check from Harald and Ragnar, but I'd've thought that if yesterday there were three scum (or two scum and an SK) the voyage would've been over. Therefore there was at most 2 traitors (or a traitor and an SK) yesterday, and with Toki's lynching as a scum, there's at most one left.

So, with five players we can lynch at most three, you need only pick one (besides yourself) player whose loyalty you can't question. You can still entertain the notion that Puddinghead is scum. The only thing you can't do is entertain the notion that everyone besides you might be scum.

Cranebeinn, who did you block on Night Eight. We have conflicting reports.

It's possible he was just trying to mislead me into claiming I targeted someone else.

He told me he targeted Toki.

So. Day one, I get drawn into an argument with Jarl. And accused of fishing.

Night one I block Tariq, it's successful. (We know now he was vengeful. He didn't have a night action,)

Day two more arguing with Jarl, and now I'm a lynch target. I claim to Dar (scum!)!and Puddinghead (who each know I've claimed to someone else). If Pudding were scum, they'd be wetting their pants laughing at my poor choice of people to claim to.

The lynch shifts to Jarl, (a scum) and that night I successfully block Mist. Puddinghead probably isn't scum.

The scum know I'm the blocker and if I were them I'd've offed me that night. But I'm still here. Was mist the designated killer or was it dumb luck I targeted a scum the night their kill bounces off protection.

If Canute is scum he targeted me, knowing I was a power role, yet I'm not dead. It probably wasn't a conversion, what was it? Was mist meant to kill me and Canute framing me? Or is the simpler explanation better. I'm alive because Canute the town protector protected me.

Day three. Mist gets sent to the big house. Scum are three down in three days.

Night three I block Toki (successfully) either he was scum from the beginning (and I really need to die, having picked two from three so far) or he was vanilla town at that point, as he claimed.

Night four I successfully block Kaupmad. He's killed that night, which feels like a wasted action, especially as despite his apparent scummyness he flips town.

Night five. I plan to block Tariq. Testing the theory that he might be the vig/SK, explaining why there were only two kills night 1 rather than three as we might have expected. As it is I swap to Ranger of the Forest.

Day six, the lack of kill night five, combined with the block gets the townie Ranger lynched. Why would the scum need to kill when I set townies up to take the fall :(

Night six. I successfully block Pandora. Testing a theory that she might be something. I dunno. Her target was Toki.

Night seven. I go to block petr, but he gets slated to be tracked at Canute's suggestion. I go to block ladyK but she gets slated to be killed because she mangles a claim and Hink can't hold fire enough to share info. So I block no one (successfully)

Night eight. Canute wants me to block Pandora, pudding is ok if I block himself, I choose to (successfully) block Toki, given that if Dave is scum targeting Toki but not killing means nothing good.

Night nine. I (successfully) block Pandora again, just to keep the possibility of her as SK at bay.

So. Despite the scum knowing my role, they haven't come gunning for me except perhaps night two. Nor have they blocked me, which likely means they don't have block as an option, or they've always had something more important to do.

Odds are, Canute saved my life night two as the protector. Assuming he is now scum means power roles can be converted, which raises the question of why wasn't I, and for that matter, Pudding too. More likely Power roles can't be converted and Canute isn't scum.

Hink could be scum, but if he is, I'm alive because spathe scum figure I'm better manipulated than dead. But PDave (and Toki) would have to be a late game bus, which would be a risky play. More likely, Hink isn't scum.

So that leaves two players we can't kill at night.

We're past the point where we need a night kill, we want to keep players until we make a decision to lynch them and I'd rather be blocking someone else. It's still a live possibility you're the SK, pandora, so sorry but,

vote Petrus Fire-starter (Pandpr)

(Pandora)

[Hinckley]

Cranebeinn, as you said to me in private, why would Canute resists Petr's lynch the way he did?

Considering the way our win conditions had to be reworded I believe we had two Scum teams. I think Petr and Canute were blocking Toki and that's why we didn't see a kill for so many days. If that is the case, what can their team do in order to win the game?

I can't fully even wrap my mind around my own theory but Canute's behavior is enough for me to want to get rid of him before we get to another Night phase.

vote: Canute Bush (CallMePie)

I do not know if this is the right course of Action but I feel more comfortable with the way Petrus has behaved throughout the course of this game than I am with Canute's behavior.

I don't know if any of my crazy theories are correct but nobody seems to want to play the brainstorm game with me so.

And Cranebeinn, if a Scum Canute framed you, why would the Scum kill you in the same night? That would be a wasted framing. The point of a framing is that the target appears the opposite alignment so that when they are investigated, Town seems Scum. You were the perfect target for a framing. It is just one option that Canute might've actually been doing to you when I saw him targeting you. And that is not the only option for the Scum not killing that night. You blocked a Scum that night, for one. But there are any number of reasons for there not being a kill, one of which might be that they tried to recall a traitor as they said they were trying to do. Basing your vote on Canute "saving" you is not the best idea, in my opinion.

[CMP]

I foresaw this day coming and I got an early start on considering every possible option. That includes you being scum. Why would I resist Petr's lynch so hard if according to your theory I was apparently able to convert him without any issue whatsoever without him?

Or wait, is your new theory that we were all part of a second scum team that simply didn't have a kill?

Vote: Petrus Fire-Starter (Pandora).

I'm thinking that he's the SK and that we've got all the scum. And as Crane said (and as I said many times in our group PM) we are the past the point of needing a killer around, ESPECIALLY an unconfirmed one.

You're not even considering that I could be scum anymore, Pudding-Head. You've complete tunnel-vision because of the fact that I was willing to consider you being scum. Why would I push for Petr being tracked if I was scum? Why would I have protected you for three days in a row if I was scum??

You're trying to line up a theory that ends with me being scum, which is exactly what I was doing to you on Day Seven. I'm thinking that both of us have been mistaken.

Pudding-Head, if you're right and I've been scum the entire game, how on EARTH is the ENTIRE TOWN BLOCK still alive or not completely converted???

[Hinckley]

I foresaw this day coming and I got an early start on considering every possible option. That includes you being scum. Why would I resist Petr's lynch so hard if according to your theory I was apparently able to convert him without any issue whatsoever without him?

convert him? Again, I don't know what the hell the Scum have been up to. You seem to like to attack that as if not knowing what the Scum's abilities are means my suspicions of you are unfounded. I suspect you because you contradict yourself and act Scummy. If I was lynched and you and Petr and Toki were all Scum, you would've achieved parity. Applying that to my theory about two Scum teams admittedly makes less sense. Because if you and Petr were blocking Toki why would you try to get me killed that night? Maybe the simple explanation is that Petr recruited Toki and then you protected Scum from the vig. That still doesn't look good for you.

And on Day Two, when you and I were discussing Cranebeinn in private, why did you suggest he need to be cleared from being seen as the "Scum shapeshifter". I don't remember you saying this but it's glaringly odd now. Was that what he was being accused of? It's a very odd term for you to have used.

[Hinckley]

The issue I'm having with all of this is that if there are two Scum teams then one would have to have the ability to win and if Petr and Canute were blocking the killer of the other team, what can they do in order to reach their win conditions?

Of all the Night Action claims we know that

1. Cranebeinn can block. He blocked Petrus for a clear effect.

2. Petrus can kill. We have dead bodies to prove that.

3. I can track. I see what you all have done.

4. Adam doesn't appear to do anything.

But what, if Canute is Scum, can he do at night? Protector is a good role to claim because it can go an entire game without having a visible effect. Has there been a night where he hasn't protected me or Cranebeinn? Yes, he targeted Toki on Night Eight. That was a very odd choice for protection that night and I have never gotten a satisfactory explanation for it.

Why must I ramble endlessly? I don't feel confident about things right now. Let me ramble more if it's OK.

Night One: Scum kill Palathadric

Night Two: No kill. Mist blocked. Cranebeinn protected. Scum talk about a traitor with people on anonymous writeboards. One Scummo says that my misleading comments got their murder stopped.

Night Three: Scum kill Tarben

Night Four: No kill. Kapmaud blocked. Cranebeinn protected.

Night Five: No kill. Ragnvald blocked. PuddingHead protected.

Night Six: No kill. Petrus blocked. PuddingHead protected.

Night Seven: No kill. Nobody is blocked. PuddingHead protected.

Night Eight: No kill. Toki is blocked. Toki is protected.

Night Nine: No kill. Petrus is blocked. Cranebeinn is protected.

On every night they didn't kill, did they attempt to recall someone? Were the writeboards just totally to mess with us? Would they sacrifice two of their own to play games with us? I doubt that. But Dar sending me a message before his death telling me to get ready to eat my hat (eerily echoed today by Cranebeinn), then he likely was just trying to sow seeds of mistrust. Or WIFOM, there was a traitor. Would it have taken the Scum five attempts to find Toki and would they have kept foregoing their kill in order to gain another member. Seven would be a lot of Scum but Canute did start the day with "Has there ever been seven?" as if we can base anything in the structure of this game on past games. Purposely misleading us, trying to get Petrus lynched?

So, looking back over my PMs, Canute knew about the Scum writeboard. He was one of the first people I sent the link to. If he is Scum then the anonymous Scum never thought I could be traitor and probably didn't try to target me for recall the night Mist was blocked. However, since they seem to have tried to recall me then that would indicate Canute is Town or was on Day Two. Or they pretended to think I was the traitor so as not to incriminate Canute. WIFOM out my ears!!!

My concern about Petrus at the beginning was that after I caught him targeting Lambi, he said something along the lines of "Well, you probably want me verified, so who do you think should be killed?" What isn't already verified about me seeing someone kill Scum? Why would I need to check again? That was the original concern I voiced to Canute.

Canute also easily offered to be revealed to the anonymous Scum as the tracker. If he's the protector, why would he agree to be bait? I asked assuming that if he wasn't vanilla he would resist being used as a kill target. I was just trying to direct their kill off of NAs. This could indicate he knew he was in no danger of being targeted by the Scum.

First message of Day Three from Canute: "So, who was blocked by Cranebeinn? Was it Mist?"

Would a traitor have a NA in addition to being a traitor? Was Toki the traitor and didn't see Jarl or Mist ask to be contacted? Did the traitor fear a Townie sting from the lynchees and not contact them?

I am looking forward to the conclusion to find out why a Scum team would only kill twice.

I realize I'm theorizing in a vacuum but if the Scum do have a day role cop and found Patrekr on Day One and Petrus is the killer from Scum team two then everything kind of fits. Would there be a Town investigator, tracker, blocker, bomb, vengeful, ducked-up thing Lauga was, with two Scum killers?

My megablocking head hurts. Was looking for a traitor a ruse to try and connect the two Scum teams? Was Dave on one side and blocking Toki who was the killer on the other side.

Somebody at least tell me I'm stupid? Hello? With five of us left, I really fear a razor thin margin and I do not want to lose this game but I feel a huge piece of the puzzle is missing. Maybe if we all ramble with me a bit we may figure it out?

Pudding-Head, if you're right and I've been scum the entire game, how on EARTH is the ENTIRE TOWN BLOCK still alive or not completely converted???

Apply this same question to you asinine logic from Day Eight. Yet another contradiction! I've already answered this several times but maybe you require multiple repetitions. Oh wait, that didn't seem to help on Day Eight when you inexplicably resisted Dave's lynch until the very last minute of the day and then told convoluted lies about what you believed going into the night phase and then "protected" a Corrupted. Way to go,

But, you're clearly not killing which I've floated five or so theories about. Maybe you've read them. I could repeat them but as they've been posted, they are still there for you to go back and read your damn self. Maybe you converted Cranebeinn last night? His original idea was to kill you last night and you were on his list as the next most suspicious after Toki and yet he votes for Petrus who was last on his list. And yes, the two of us did list them. I just don't know. But not knowing what the Scum have been doing for six days doesn't mean that you aren't the Scummiest person here.

You're not even considering that I could be scum anymore, Pudding-Head. You've complete tunnel-vision because of the fact that I was willing to consider you being scum. Why would I push for Petr being tracked if I was scum?

We've established that you didn't. I mentioned Petr for the first time with 2 hours left to go in the Night Action deadline which was long after (it is well established) Petr had already left for Iceland. I was originally targeting Jafri and then switched to Lauga after Tarr's chicken killed Jafri. And you wouldn't have had time to stop me or Petr at that point.

Why would I have protected you for three days in a row if I was scum??

If you are Scum, you haven't been protecting anyone at all.

You're trying to line up a theory that ends with me being scum, which is exactly what I was doing to you on Day Seven. I'm thinking that both of us have been mistaken.

I'm trying to reconcile your behavior by floating several theories. Not making up a theory and desperately sticking do it, despite the behavior of the accused contradicting what I'm saying. That's what you did. You desperately stuck to your one theory the entire day. Once you realized I wasn't going to be lynched, you couldn't just back off of it so you stuck to it, not considering any other possibility which as I pointed out at the time, isn't Townie behavior. Maybe you broke in tiny ways towards the end of the day. You finally admitted you could be wrong but going into the night phase you still said you expected the game to end yet protected Scum against someone you thought was Town.

Your repeated behavior shows a pattern of Scumminess. I'm just sorry we didn't follow Cranebeinn's original plan for the night and kill your Scummy megablocks.

[Hinckley]

And Canute could be choosing not to kill so that we will kill our vig. Maybe that wasn't the original reason we didn't see a kill. I doubt a Scum team would try to kill me three nights in a row. Maybe one of those protections of me or Cranebeinn was lucky. But I'm losing my focus (and my megablocking mind here) Canute has tried for days to get Petrus lynched and has even been incredulous that I'm not voicing the same suspicions I've voiced earlier. If they blew their kill for many days just to recruit Toki he could've foregone the kill last night to try and get Petrus lynched. If he "whips out his Scum kill" tonight after Petrus is lynched and kills, say me, then Cranebeinn and Agnar would lynch him, right? Or is Agnar the bomb claim so Scummy that Cranebeinn would go along with Canute and lynch him? Oh my God, what is happening to my brain? My point: All of Canute's talk about Scum choosing not to kill could be his own tactic to get us to lynch Petrus.

Why would someone try that hard to get just one person lynched? My theory about two Scum teams. Canute and Petr blocking Toki would hinge on Petrus being their killer. Canute is trying to get his own killer lynched? Somebody help my brain! I want this to end.

Does the rewording of our Night Actions actually incriminate Petrus? Ugh. It would make answer the question of what the hell were they doing to Toki and why hasn't there been a kill if Toki was the killer for one team and being blocked by the other team. :cry3: :cry3:

megabluck.

[Hinckley]

My concern at the moment is that if, for some reason, I'm right about double conversions then Canute was able to convert someone to neutral last night. If we lynch Petrus and allow Canute another night to finish the conversion, then we're at parity tomorrow and Scum would win the game.

[Pandora]

That's the thing that bothers me. Why am I protector if the scum have been doing next to nothing with their kill? Would there really be a protector if they could go crazy with conversions? I think they were just been scared of being tracked and haven't been out killing.

Yes, why do we need a protector when the scum have only killed twice? I can see the point of a scum protector with a town killing role, though.

I have several suggestions for how we might proceed. I'm operating under the assumption that both Cranebeinn and Pudding Head are town. If this isn't true, then I honestly think we're screwed.

Eh? "I'm going to make an assumption and ignore any possible other line of thinking and if it's not true then I'll just roll over."

At the very least, we know that Cranebeinn is the blocker because he was able to stop Petrus from killing Toki on Night Six

We know Cranebeinn is a blocker.

and we know that Pudding Head is the tracker, because how else would he have known to contact Petrus?

We presume Pudding is a tracker.

I know that either of these roles can belong to scum (more likely blocker than tracker in my experience, but what the hell), but we haven't had any counterclaims.

Nor have there been any vig counterclaims.

As for why I think Petrus is the serial killer... it goes along with the thought that the scum might have or have had a day cop, and that they took out Patrekr because he had a role. It would explain why we've seen no neutrals and no third kill (I understand that not all games have neutral parties, but I think it's reasonable to say that most games do).

The scum had a day cop and, of all people role-copped Patrekr, and of all people he was the vig, and then they took him out, and somehow I telepathically knew it was ticketyboo to claim vig?

Is it more common for there to be a vig or a serial killer? I'll tell you: vig. Seeing as everyone wants to keep looking back at past Ragnaröks, the first Ragnarök had two vigs and no serial killer.

While I doubt Petrus knew that Danr was the investigator (though Danr could've claimed to Petrus, since Petrus is a well-known and well-established player), if I were a serial killer I would want to go after targets that I had not discussed with Pudding Head in an effort to take out someone on the town block.

Nobody claims to me. You didn't claim to me, despite me being such a "well-known and well-established player".

And what's the likelihood of Danr claiming to me without investigating me as town? He didn't even contact Pudding (to whom everyone claims) until he'd investigated him as town.

I explained my suspicion of Danr at the time - it's even in the day threads, along with Canute's suspicion too. At the time I thought that Pudding was hiding a team-mate and stringing along a townie Canute. I could have denied killing Danr, and if I were a serial killer, then why not just kill any old target I'm given and be happy I'm killing? Because I am not a serial killer, I am the vig, and everything about me is screaming that I'm the vig, and I don't understand why people don't see it.

I've explained my night actions over and over, and yet more fanciful theories appear. Go back and read everything I've said in the day threads - I went after Mist, I led the vote on Jarl, I was after Toki. I was even trying to nightkill Toki when Canute had me blocked. All of my actions, both public and private, clearly show you I am the vig.

If I were scum, and if I had a passive scum role, why would I claim anything other than vanilla, knowing that a bomb claim would only draw attention to myself?

Because a bomb claim would make me think twice about night killing you.

So. Despite the scum knowing my role, they haven't come gunning for me except perhaps night two. Nor have they blocked me, which likely means they don't have block as an option, or they've always had something more important to do.

They haven't blocked any of us, assuming you're the town blocker. They've been happy with us doing whatever we're doing all game.

Odds are, Canute saved my life night two as the protector. Assuming he is now scum means power roles can be converted, which raises the question of why wasn't I, and for that matter, Pudding too. More likely Power roles can't be converted and Canute isn't scum.

I'm not scum, so why do you want to lynch me?

Hink could be scum, but if he is, I'm alive because spathe scum figure I'm better manipulated than dead. But PDave (and Toki) would have to be a late game bus, which would be a risky play. More likely, Hink isn't scum.

Not that risky if it keeps him alive, solidifies him as 'definite town' and allows him to go on to win the game for his scum team.

So that leaves two players we can't kill at night.

We're past the point where we need a night kill, we want to keep players until we make a decision to lynch them and I'd rather be blocking someone else. It's still a live possibility you're the SK, pandora, so sorry but,

You really think it's better to lynch me over a scummy bomb claim? You really, really think that lynching the vig (because you think we don't need a night kill anymore) is going win us the game? It's not a live possibility that I might be a serial killer, because I'm not, I'm the vig. Read all of my posts, it's obvious.

I'm thinking that he's the SK and that we've got all the scum. And as Crane said (and as I said many times in our group PM) we are the past the point of needing a killer around, ESPECIALLY an unconfirmed one.

How confirmed do you want me to be? I'm a lot more confirmed than you are. You said nothing all game, and then when you scum numbers start getting low you pop out and start actually saying something, generally throwing around wild accusations. You, who has been whispering in everyone's ear all game long. You, who had me blocked the night I went to kill Toki. You accused me of being a serial killer to make your theory fit - the one where we had to lynch Pudding or the day would end. You couldn't get us to lynch Pudding, so now you'll just settle for trying to paint me as something I'm not and remove the risk that I might night kill your scummy big behind to boot.

Why would I have protected you for three days in a row if I was scum??

We only have your word for it that you ever protected anyone.

You're trying to line up a theory that ends with me being scum, which is exactly what I was doing to you on Day Seven. I'm thinking that both of us have been mistaken.

You're trying to line up a theory that ends with me being a serial killer.

Pudding-Head, if you're right and I've been scum the entire game, how on EARTH is the ENTIRE TOWN BLOCK still alive or not completely converted???

And if I'm a serial killer then how on EARTH is the ENTIRE TOWN BLOCK still alive???

My concern about Petrus at the beginning was that after I caught him targeting Lambi, he said something along the lines of "Well, you probably want me verified, so who do you think should be killed?" What isn't already verified about me seeing someone kill Scum? Why would I need to check again? That was the original concern I voiced to Canute.

Read the conversation again. You had said yourself you saw me targeting Lambi but you didn't know for certain that I'd killed her, and I know how much you "verify, verify, verify". And what I actually said to you was that I was open to suggestions regarding my kill, in an effort to try to start a town block, but mused that you might want to verify the blocker claim. At the time we were doing the nervous townie dance, but if you look back I was trying to work with you, albeit guardedly.

Would there be a Town investigator, tracker, blocker, bomb, vengeful, ducked-up thing Lauga was, with two Scum killers?

Would there be a day ten with two scum killers? If there were two scum teams and two scum killers, then surely we'd be much more tooled-up night action-wise to deal with it. But we're not.

I am the vig. Lynching me is a bad idea (whether or not you think we do or don't need a kill action) because I am town. Read my posts, see the logic - I am the vig and you're considering lynching me even though I've been fighting scum all through the game and I'm clearly town. The scum haven't been killing, and the most likely thing is that they have been converting, which is why I'm here - to help cull their numbers. I have the luxury of knowing that I'm town, and that means there must be at least one more scum left.

You may not think we need a killing role (and I've stayed home the last two nights), but we sure as hell need townies.

Vote Canute Grey-Bush (CallMePie)

You keep whispering in everyone's ears that I must be a serial killer when I'm clearly not. You spent most of the game hiding, until your numbers got too low, and then come out swinging with wild and illogical accusations, and you argued to have me blocked from killing a scummy Toki on night six (you also wanted to lynch Ragnvald over Toki day six I beleive), along with wanting to lynch Pudding because of a theory despite a night action result on scummy Petr that warranted testing, and then you still targeted Toki that night for fear I might kill him. The only reason I would kill him would be because I'm the vig and because he was scummy as hell, and I can see every reason why the scum team might have a protector.

[Hinckley]

You said nothing all game, and then when you scum numbers start getting low you pop out and start actually saying something, generally throwing around wild accusations. You, who has been whispering in everyone's ear all game long. You, who had me blocked the night I went to kill Toki. You accused me of being a serial killer to make your theory fit - the one where we had to lynch Pudding or the day would end. You couldn't get us to lynch Pudding, so now you'll just settle for trying to paint me as something I'm not and remove the risk that I might night kill your scummy big behind to boot.

I was thinking of re-iterating this as well. Not only did he go from mostly silent (<10 posts a day to >40 for one theory) to frothing at the mouth to stop us from lynching Petr. Then after his theory was proven wrong, he had nothing. Nothing more to get excited about. Just a bunch of faces and reactions to theories and the info we have received. That is a glaring difference.

Maybe the simplest explanation is that Petr recalled Toki the traitor and then Canute protected him from the vig the following night. And who knows what they were doing before they recalled Toki...

Maybe they tried to recall every night until they could find him thinking that we would believe the Scum were trying to kill me every night...

[MagPiesRUs]

Vote Count

Petrus Fire-Starter (Pandora): 2 votes (Chromeknight, CallMePie)

Canute Grey-Bush (CallMePie): 2 votes (Hinckley, Pandora)

No Vote: 1 (Adam)

3 votes are required to lynch. 30 hours remain in the day.

[Chromeknight]

Cranebeinn, as you said to me in private, why would Canute resists Petr's lynch the way he did?

I can't fully even wrap my mind around my own theory but Canute's behavior is enough for me to want to get rid of him before we get to another Night phase.

And Cranebeinn, if a Scum Canute framed you, why would the Scum kill you in the same night? That would be a wasted framing. The point of a framing is that the target appears the opposite alignment so that when they are investigated, Town seems Scum. You were the perfect target for a framing. It is just one option that Canute might've actually been doing to you when I saw him targeting you. And that is not the only option for the Scum not killing that night. You blocked a Scum that night, for one. But there are any number of reasons for there not being a kill, one of which might be that they tried to recall a traitor as they said they were trying to do. Basing your vote on Canute "saving" you is not the best idea, in my opinion.

If he was right and you're scum, it's reasonable. It's concerning that you can't see how your insistence on Petr after the LadyK fiasco looked like fast play to end the game.

Why wouldn't I block him if Petrus is lynched. I can't block myself, there's no point blocking Adam if he's the bomb, I could block you, but if I don't and someone dies, we'd know who to look to, so Canute would score the block.

As for framing, I misunderstood how it worked. But framing in case of investigation is a 'psychic power' play. The scum would have to get lucky to pull it off. You've previously complained about roles whose effectiveness depend on the aggressive actions of others.

For night two, there are three options.

1. The scum kill nobody.

2. Mist is the scum killer and is blocked. At this point there are four or so scum left. So I got lucky.

3. Any of the other three or four scum try to kill me and it bounces.

Straight up, if there are four scum, all equally likely to be the killer, it's three times as likely that Canute protected me as I simply blocked the kill.

Applying that to my theory about two Scum teams admittedly makes less sense. Because if you and Petr were blocking Toki why would you try to get me killed that night? Maybe the simple explanation is that Petr recruited Toki and then you protected Scum from the vig. That still doesn't look good for you.

And on Day Two, when you and I were discussing Cranebeinn in private, why did you suggest he need to be cleared from being seen as the "Scum shapeshifter". I don't remember you saying this but it's glaringly odd now. Was that what he was being accused of? It's a very odd term for you to have used.

Dude. Me as scum shapeshifter is a possibility you raised. If it came from Canute, fine, but you ran with it. You suggested I stole the blocking power from Patrekr day one and had him killed at night to cover my crime. (Unless Patrekr is the vig that Pandora killed to cover her crime. Or maybe he's the doc that Canute murderised for his own benefit.)

So, looking back over my PMs, Canute knew about the Scum writeboard. He was one of the first people I sent the link to. If he is Scum then the anonymous Scum never thought I could be traitor and probably didn't try to target me for recall the night Mist was blocked. However, since they seem to have tried to recall me then that would indicate Canute is Town or was on Day Two.

My concern about Petrus at the beginning was that after I caught him targeting Lambi, he said something along the lines of "Well, you probably want me verified, so who do you think should be killed?" What isn't already verified about me seeing someone kill Scum? Why would I need to check again? That was the original concern I voiced to Canute.

Canute also easily offered to be revealed to the anonymous Scum as the tracker. If he's the protector, why would he agree to be bait? I asked assuming that if he wasn't vanilla he would resist being used as a kill target. I was just trying to direct their kill off of NAs. This could indicate he knew he was in no danger of being targeted by the Scum.

First message of Day Three from Canute: "So, who was blocked by Cranebeinn? Was it Mist?"

Would a traitor have a NA in addition to being a traitor? Was Toki the traitor and didn't see Jarl or Mist ask to be contacted? Did the traitor fear a Townie sting from the lynchees and not contact them?

I am looking forward to the conclusion to find out why a Scum team would only kill twice.

I realize I'm theorizing in a vacuum but if the Scum do have a day role cop and found Patrekr on Day One and Petrus is the killer from Scum team two then everything kind of fits. Would there be a Town investigator, tracker, blocker, bomb, vengeful, ducked-up thing Lauga was, with two Scum killers?

My megablocking head hurts. Was looking for a traitor a ruse to try and connect the two Scum teams? Was Dave on one side and blocking Toki who was the killer on the other side.

Ok.

Let's run the two scum teams scenario. Again.

First point, they have to be labeled the same, corrupted. It's not unprecedented, but it is a bit unfair.

Second, if there are two scum teams only one of the teams can kill, since we've never seen a three kill night. (Counterpoint, both teams can kill but town has no vig.)

Thirdly, our confirmed scum so far are Lambi, Jarl, Mist, Dar, Petr and Toki. Taken as two teams of three suggest Toki and Petr are on opposite sides. It suggests Mist and Jarl are on opposite sides, since Mist apparently didn't know who Jarl had been talking to about being a traitor. Lambi and Mist are on opposite sides, since Mist provides a writeboard with three scum on it.

Toki and Petr different sides, Petr blocking Toki? I don't see it. That'd mean they'd have to be different sides, and would rather fight than take out more of the town.

If you're opening up Canute to be scum then, hél, Petrus could be a scum killer too, and kills a Lambi from the other side.

My concern at the moment is that if, for some reason, I'm right about double conversions then Canute was able to convert someone to neutral last night. If we lynch Petrus and allow Canute another night to finish the conversion, then we're at parity tomorrow and Scum would win the game.

Um. You seem to forget, if he isn't lynched he's gonna be blocked?

Unvote Petrus Fire-Starter (Pandora)

You really think it's better to lynch me over a scummy bomb claim? You really, really think that lynching the vig (because you think we don't need a night kill anymore) is going win us the game? It's not a live possibility that I might be a serial killer, because I'm not, I'm the vig. Read all of my posts, it's obvious.

[*]Today, lynch me and tonight, have Petrus kill Canute. If there's a tomorrow, lynch Petrus. Even if Petrus kills someone other than Canute, he will be exposed as a serial killer, and there will be a majority of two available to lynch him.

I'm town, and I would prefer to stick around, if only because having one more townie improves our numbers. However, I will win with the town regardless of whether I'm alive or dead. If lynching me today will put us on a path to rooting out the last non-townie or non-townies (though my guess is that there is only one), then I encourage you all to lynch me.

So. Plan. I can go with that.

Lynch Adam today. Block and Kill Canute tonight.

If there is a tomorrow, I flip a coin between you and Pudding.

Vote: Angmar (Adam)

[Hinckley]

If he was right and you're scum, it's reasonable. It's concerning that you can't see how your insistence on Petr after the LadyK fiasco looked like fast play to end the game.

Based on my own Action results. That was my insistence. And you have never voiced this concern before. Interesting.

Why wouldn't I block him if Petrus is lynched. I can't block myself, there's no point blocking Adam if he's the bomb, I could block you, but if I don't and someone dies, we'd know who to look to, so Canute would score the block.

Who knows what you would do if you're a neutral now. I know that's far-fetched but if he targeted anyone I imagine it would be you. He said he targeted you. If he's the last Scum, what can he do? Again, I don't know. I don't trust your change of opinion.

As for framing, I misunderstood how it worked. But framing in case of investigation is a 'psychic power' play. The scum would have to get lucky to pull it off. You've previously complained about roles whose effectiveness depend on the aggressive actions of others.

For night two, there are three options.

1. The scum kill nobody.

2. Mist is the scum killer and is blocked. At this point there are four or so scum left. So I got lucky.

3. Any of the other three or four scum try to kill me and it bounces.

Straight up, if there are four scum, all equally likely to be the killer, it's three times as likely that Canute protected me as I simply blocked the kill.

He may actually be able to protect. Mist was lynched because she was blocked. We've seen several night with no kill. Probability isn't normal in this game and I don't follow how you came up with that.

Dude. Me as scum shapeshifter is a possibility you raised. If it came from Canute, fine, but you ran with it. You suggested I stole the blocking power from Patrekr day one and had him killed at night to cover my crime. (Unless Patrekr is the vig that Pandora killed to cover her crime. Or maybe he's the doc that Canute murderised for his own benefit.)

I looked back and saw that, correct. I did think you could possibly be claiming Town blocker because there was a shapeshifter. I was first to mention it. Sorry, that was a month ago and this game is breaking my brain. Why are you solely on Petrus now and not trying to look into game mechanics? I trust you so much less today than I have previously.

Ok.

Let's run the two scum teams scenario. Again.

First point, they have to be labeled the same, corrupted. It's not unprecedented, but it is a bit unfair.

Agreed.

Second, if there are two scum teams only one of the teams can kill, since we've never seen a three kill night. (Counterpoint, both teams can kill but town has no vig.)

As I said earlier.

Thirdly, our confirmed scum so far are Lambi, Jarl, Mist, Dar, Petr and Toki. Taken as two teams of three suggest Toki and Petr are on opposite sides. It suggests Mist and Jarl are on opposite sides, since Mist apparently didn't know who Jarl had been talking to about being a traitor. Lambi and Mist are on opposite sides, since Mist provides a writeboard with three scum on it.

Oh, did Mist provide you with a writeboard? This is the first I've heard of Mist sending anyone a writeboard. What are you talking about?

Toki and Petr different sides, Petr blocking Toki? I don't see it. That'd mean they'd have to be different sides, and would rather fight than take out more of the town.

If you're opening up Canute to be scum then, hél, Petrus could be a scum killer too, and kills a Lambi from the other side.

As I have also already said.

Um. You seem to forget, if he isn't lynched he's gonna be blocked?

Unless, like I said, you guys are on the same side or you're on your way to being fully converted. I just don't know! And we know Petrus has one ability, kill. We don't know what the hell Canute is doing. He targeted Toki which he only provides weak explanation for that I still don't buy. Yesterday you wanted to night-kill Canute and we discussed lynching either Agnar or Canute today and you seemed to be leaning towards Canute as I was after initially listing Agnar as next lynch and today you vote for Petrus, along with Canute.

I am glad someone is discussing game mechanics with me instead of letting me ramble endlessly into a vacuum.

Unvote Petrus Fire-Starter (Pandora)

So. Plan. I can go with that.

Lynch Adam today. Block and Kill Canute tonight.

If there is a tomorrow, I flip a coin between you and Pudding.

Vote: Angmar (Adam)

I missed this originally. Hmmmm. I will think about this and make a decision before I go to sleep in about two hours...

[Hinckley]

If Cranebeinn has been half–converted and gets fully converted tonight and he blocks Petrus after we lynch Agnar... parity, Scum win.

I know my theories are crazy but I just don't trust this.

[MagPiesRUs]

Vote: Angmar (Adam)

Who's that?

Fine.

Vote Count

Canute Grey-Bush (CallMePie): 2 votes (Hinckley, Pandora)

Petrus Fire-Starter (Pandora): 1 vote ( CallMePie)

Agnar Skull-Smasher (Adam): 1 vote (Chromeknight)

No Vote: 1 (Adam)

3 votes are required to lynch. 28 hours remain in the day.

[Hinckley]

Who's that?

Fine.

Hey, can you tell us what the hell is going on?

Worth a shot.

[Hinckley]

And if we know Agnar didn't target anyone, why would we think he's Scum?

[CMP]

Why would Cranebeinn try and get a scum win if he's a neutral?

[Hinckley]

You continuously pick apart small points I make when trying to figure things out. You are not helping matters at all. What happened to Pie–Parity Day Canute? Where's the drive you had that day for anything since? You think my entire concern about what is happening lies on if he's been converted to neutral? Last night he wanted to vig kill you. Now he'll apparently vote for anyone but you. It's concerning. Not as concerning as your ludicrous changes of behavior.

I still have no satisfactory explanation how you went from being so certain I was Scum to a Night phase where you thought I was Town so you protected Scum. You thought I was lying but knew I was the tracker and would try to kill Toki for Town reasons.

You need to be hanging from a rope.

[Chromeknight]

Based on my own Action results. That was my insistence. And you have never voiced this concern before. Interesting.

I'm sorry I didn't tell you I thought you were scum, cause, you know, I thought you were scum. Doesn't mean I wasn't concerned then. Just means I didn't raise it with you.

Who knows what you would do if you're a neutral now. I know that's far-fetched but if he targeted anyone I imagine it would be you. He said he targeted you. If he's the last Scum, what can he do? Again, I don't know. I don't trust your change of opinion.

Excuse me for trying to figure stuff out and talking with people rather than just writing them off as scum.

Someone here is lying. So they're lying to cover up their lie. Sooner or later it'll be spotted. Keep poking.

He may actually be able to protect. Mist was lynched because she was blocked. We've seen several night with no kill. Probability isn't normal in this game and I don't follow how you came up with that.

Not sure how I can be clearer about it. Sure mist was lynch because she was blocked. But was I spared death because I blocked her? That's the question.

I looked back and saw that, correct. I did think you could possibly be claiming Town blocker because there was a shapeshifter. I was first to mention it. Sorry, that was a month ago and this game is breaking my brain. Why are you solely on Petrus now and not trying to look into game mechanics? I trust you so much less today than I have previously.

You've been flip flopping on me since the beginning. You wanted me lynched, you think my play style is weird and you don't follow my reasoning for stuff. I haven't explained all my conversations and conjectures to you and you feel left out. That's on you. I'm the same alignment I always have been, playing the same kind of game I always have been.

Oh, did Mist provide you with a writeboard? This is the first I've heard of Mist sending anyone a writeboard. What are you talking about?

Nutty fudgekins. These scum blend together, I never got any whiteboards. Reading back y'all were on ones from Jarl.

Well that breaks the two team theory, since Jarl, Mist and Lambi would all have to be different teams.

[Hinckley]

Not sure how I can be clearer about it. Sure mist was lynch because she was blocked. But was I spared death because I blocked her? That's the question.

If there was no kill because she was blocked then anyone could've been saved from death. You blocking doesn't necessitate that you were her kill target.

You've been flip flopping on me since the beginning.

Flip flopping? Are you a politician now? You should be glad I "flip-flop" I have no reason to trust anyone fully so I'm questioning everything. I'm not saying it's the best tactic but it's meant to think all possibilities through and figure the game out. Would you rather have been lynched on Day Two?

Something ( ) wants me to return to this theory:

The idea of a bus driver works in place of weaponizing a player. If they are trying to take any action directed at Toki... then aim it at someone else. So they think that Toki is being killed and the kill goes to somebody else and then they can say "Petrus killed the blocker!" Or whatever. Maybe that's why Dave targeted Toki. That would mean Dave and Toki were both Scum. For Canute to have used the action the same way, he and Dave and Toki would all have to be Scum and he'd have to be counting on Cranebeinn not telling him the truth about who was targeted.

It's a great way to cause confusion. We would lynch the vig in that case. And then we'd be all freaked out as to how it had happened when the vig flipped Town.

Is this idea stupid too?

Then that would explain why they haven't been killing. Canute wants us to believe our vig is the SK so he's trying to aim her kill from Toki to someone else and then everyone will think she's the SK and all the Scum are dead already and lynch her and then they'll kill someone and we'd be like " Wuuuuuuuuuuut??"

I should get some sleep...

But it would make sense as to why we haven't seen kills and why Toki keeps getting targeted and why Petr said "Why didn't the vig kill Toki?"

This would explain what would be happening when Petr (and possibly Canute) targeted Toki. The possibility this brings up is that Canute has been trying to paint Petrus as the Serial Killer for days so he might be opting not to kill and trying to redirect the kill off of her target onto someone else to "frame" her and convince us she is the SK and the Scum are gone. There, period. That's my strongest theory.

This game is making me tired and hurting my brain.

[Hinckley]

I haven't explained all my conversations and conjectures to you and you feel left out.

Nobody asked me to the dance either. At this point in the game I can't see much reason to not uncover everything. We should be having as much discussion and conjecture out in the open. Especially if all of your conversations are with the Scummy Canute. Sounds like an exotic bird: the Scummy Canute.

[Hinckley]

If Canute Bus Drove Actions off of Toki wouldn't Cranebeinn have blocked the person Canute tried to kill? Crane himself would've been the best target for that to incriminate me or Petrus. Or was Canute driving things off of Toki onto Agnar? To cause 2 Townie deaths. Maybe Toki has been driven to Agnar for some time which would explain why I didn't see him tracking anyone and blocking seemed to have no effect.

Echoes of Petr "Why didn't the vig kill Toki?"

Yet Canute knew the vig was blocked. Maybe Petr didn't read the wb first?

[Hinckley]

But now it makes perfect sense why Knute had to get me lanced. And then when that didn't work he had to get Dave to the night phase and Petrus to target him. That is it. That is what happened. Clear as day. end of story

Voice to text, driving.

[Hinckley]

Yes, yes, yes!! I'm right. This is why it's good to look at my ramblings and bounce stuff off of them no matter how crazy they sound.

Day Eight:

Canute can't get me lynched so he begs us to night-kill Petr even though it contradicts his own logic. If we had agreed to that he would've driven any action directed at Dave to Agnar. Kaboom! Two townies down, Petr, Toki and Canute win.

That didn't work so

Night Eight:

Canute targets Toki to drive the kill of off him to Agnar. He admits to thinking Cranebeinn was blocking me.

This would've achieved parity and Scum would've won.

Day Nine:

And onward, sheepish Canute had to lynch Toki and hope we'll think Petrus is Serial Killer and we'll kill each other in the massive paranoia of not having a Scum night kill.

Lynch Canute!

Thank you, good night! I'll be here all week.

[Pandora]

Yes, yes, yes!! I'm right. This is why it's good to look at my ramblings and bounce stuff off of them no matter how crazy they sound.

Of all your theories, this one actually makes some sort of sense to me. I briefly wondered why Dar plucked 'redirector' out of thin air in his half-arsed defence before he was lynched (and I think I said so at the time).

My vote is staying where it is.