[TC8] Technic Crane Contest - Information Topic

[nerdsforprez]

Hmmmm...i actually think that including wips is problematic. I mean, I know it is difficult to enforce, but rather just followed by the personal honesty policy, but including wips allows some a significant advantage. As we all know, talent is one major factor in producing a wonderful moc. But we often neglect the variable of time. Those that have additional time (already been working on a crane) have a huge advantage. One that is more or less random; based on the some fact that they a priori decided to build a crane. Unlike other contests, like the recent enforcers versus bandits competition, which no one could have really anticipated and therefore not had a head start (wip), therefore the potential for this advantage was more or less controlled. Just something to consider.

Also, can I get a response on my question regarding counter weights? Thxs

[Erik Leppen]

I think the unfair advantage issue cannot be fully eliminated. What if I had the same WIP but not taken it anywhere, and wouldn't have told? ;)

But also, as you (nerdsforprez) already say, there's more factors that weigh in into advantages.

• You mention time, which is a biggie.
  
• Anyone who has built several cranes before, has an experience advantage. And, many people have.
  
• The more tech-savvy people have a CAD software advantage.
  
• Those with bigger collections or a bigger budget, have a parts advantage.
  
• Those with good photography skills have a presentation advantage.
  

You can question any advantage. Is it fair, or is it unfair? I think this question has no easy answer, or, at least, has a big gray area.

And, in the end, every advantage is only going to be an issue for the person who wins (the prize, but also the honour).

I think, what matters most in the end, is that people are having fun and are pushed to really try to build the best crane they can. The competition is very much about the challenge it offers :) That's what I'm looking forward to the most: all those cool great-quality LEGO Technic cranes. Just imagine :)

[Graydingo]

Cool! Another contest right off the bat. Thanks should be fun!

[aminnich]

I have to agree with you. Personally I have zero camera skills, so if I enter into the contest my video will be terrible. Also people that was the cad programs usually build whenever they are making and just buy whatever they need. Others of us use what we have and sometimes the model is several different colors and it doesn't look as good.

[Lipko]

I think the unfair advantage issue cannot be fully eliminated. What if I had the same WIP but not taken it anywhere, and wouldn't have told? ;)

But also, as you (nerdsforprez) already say, there's more factors that weigh in into advantages.

• You mention time, which is a biggie.
  
• Anyone who has built several cranes before, has an experience advantage. And, many people have.
  
• The more tech-savvy people have a CAD software advantage.
  
• Those with bigger collections or a bigger budget, have a parts advantage.
  
• Those with good photography skills have a presentation advantage.
  

You can question any advantage. Is it fair, or is it unfair? I think this question has no easy answer, or, at least, has a big gray area.

And, in the end, every advantage is only going to be an issue for the person who wins (the prize, but also the honour).

I think, what matters most in the end, is that people are having fun and are pushed to really try to build the best crane they can. The competition is very much about the challenge it offers :) That's what I'm looking forward to the most: all those cool great-quality LEGO Technic cranes. Just imagine :)

I agree with most of what you say, but I think points 3 and 5 is just a matter of some (really just some hours) of learning and effort (way much less effort that designing a model).

The other points are the real factors for me, that's why I prefer contests with part limit (and because sadly in these voting contests the bigger is usually better), and contests with non-generic theme. Though generic themes usually mean much more contestants and virulent contest.

So dunno.

I'm not really complaining, I just don't like it when some people just modify their existing WIPs/finished models and even go as far as to argue with the contest rules and act like they can't comprehend them.

But by far the most annoying thing is the lack of time...

[Milan]

Can we use other things housed in Lego perhaps (like fishing weights, pennies, etc.) for weights?

In one word, no.

In few words...having built few cranes for lifting loads, i can relate to your question.

But this is not heavy lifting contest. Also, there will be no way to limit what is or how much weights is ok.

Lego can make cranes that rotate, luff boom, extend it twice and hoist, just with lego parts. Lets make the same thing, just stronger, with more functions and better looking.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Milan

[D3K]

Good to see people are already starting to post WIP topics!

As for the counterweight discussion; if one can't get enough weight with a high number of battery-filled batteryboxes, then I think one might need to rethink the design

I think I have found out what I am going to build; something like a Liebherr 81K fast erecting tower crane. Have already started to experiment with how to best build a super strong truss structure, and have landed on rough dimensions 7x7 studs for outer tower and 5x5 studs for inner (extending) tower. Boom with jib will be over 140 studs long if it is to be made to scale So I guess we'll have to see about that

[dr_spock]

While this idea is clearly unique, it is also clearly fantasy. Except maybe in Flintstones universe :)

Thank you for the clarfication. I'll have to think of something else.

[GoldVillage]

Is something like this allowed? it has a crane for lifting timber but can also haul the timber on its own...

[BusterHaus]

Where does Styrofoam fit on the list of allowed items? I'm working on a barge crane and thought of trying to make it float with polystyrene inserts.

[Kiwi_Builder]

Is something like this allowed? it has a crane for lifting timber but can also haul the timber on its own...

I don't think that is allowed, no. Because the primary function is that it has to be lifting. For that the main function is transportation, one of those comes under the same category as a truck mounted crane, not allowed.

[aminnich]

I don't think that is allowed, no. Because the primary function is that it has to be lifting. For that the main function is transportation, one of those comes under the same category as a truck mounted crane, not allowed.

Agreed, that is technically the same as a truck mounted crane.

Edited September 8, 2015 by aminnich

[GoldVillage]

Agreed, that is technically the same as a crane mounted crane.

So is 42009, the entire crane section is mounted...

[nerdsforprez]

I think the unfair advantage issue cannot be fully eliminated. What if I had the same WIP but not taken it anywhere, and wouldn't have told? ;)

But also, as you (nerdsforprez) already say, there's more factors that weigh in into advantages.

• You mention time, which is a biggie.
  
• Anyone who has built several cranes before, has an experience advantage. And, many people have.
  
• The more tech-savvy people have a CAD software advantage.
  
• Those with bigger collections or a bigger budget, have a parts advantage.
  
• Those with good photography skills have a presentation advantage.
  

You can question any advantage. Is it fair, or is it unfair? I think this question has no easy answer, or, at least, has a big gray area.

And, in the end, every advantage is only going to be an issue for the person who wins (the prize, but also the honour).

I think, what matters most in the end, is that people are having fun and are pushed to really try to build the best crane they can. The competition is very much about the challenge it offers :) That's what I'm looking forward to the most: all those cool great-quality LEGO Technic cranes. Just imagine :)

Hey Eric,

By no means am I advocating an elimination of all factors that are involved in an "unfair advantage." Such would be impossible. But let me clarify a little about your examples.

Unfair advantage and the factors that make a good builder and MOCer are not the same thing. To say that factors that comprise a good builder gives one an unfair advantage, IMO, is a moot point. That is the whole point, er, the essence of the competition in the first place. Photography skills, larger collection, CAD skills and prior experience are NOT unfair advantages. They are all skills and attributes, that one HAS WORKED TO OBTAIN, that makes one a better builder. However, my argument of entering WIPs is a random factor. Not involved in those characteristics that comprise a good builder. You can have the best builder in the world, who goes up against, say a better than average builder but not great but has lets say three times as long to work on and plan a MOC who could actually beat the best builder, simply because of the random fact that they had been working on a project longer (in other words, had a WIP). The random chance that the slightly better than average builder happened to be already working on a project for say many months is random and not tied in any way shape or form the efforts of the builder. It is due to chance. Like a mentioned, larger collection, photography skills, CAD skills, etc.... is entirely different IMHO, because these are factors intimately tied to building skills and correlated heavily in the amount of time and EFFORT one puts into building.

In any vein, it was just a thought. Like I mentioned in the original post on the topic, I get there is no way to enforce it. Some WIPs may be 5% done whereas 95%...... no way to measure it reliably or enforce it. I get it. But....... just food for thought here....if we were to say NO WIPs and leave it to the discretion of the applicants and just abide by the gentleman's agreement it MAY control some of the randomness that I discussed above..

But not to take things too serious..... we agree on the ultimate goal of the contest. To just have fun! Good luck on your entry...... I bet it will be outstanding!!

[aminnich]

So is 42009, the entire crane section is mounted...

I meant truck mounted crane oops

[Lipko]

A larger collection is "unfair" too, because it's not only a question of effort put into your hobby, but it depends on how do you live. In many countries and cities, the prices of apartments and rents are exploding. I, for one, could easily buy a huge collection of Legos because of money. But I can't because I can't afford the space.

But this advantage can be greatly decreased by part limits in the contests. There were many contests like that, and they worked, even if you have to trust the contestants since making CAD models can't be expected.

[Jurss]

First technics set i had, was 42000. I built some 5 good c-models from it, and it was pretty easy. Now i have lot more parts. Now it's much harder to build something new. So - more is not always better. Maybe it's only my problem.

And yes, life etc. (put there what You like) is not fair.

[Jim]

Where does Styrofoam fit on the list of allowed items? I'm working on a barge crane and thought of trying to make it float with polystyrene inserts.

No non LEGO parts other than the ones mentioned in the rules. You can still build the barge. It doesn't actually need to float. We get the idea.

Regarding the fair/unfair discussion. Let's not continue this discussion here. Stick to the contest.

We have a generic contest topic for contest discussions.

[Milan]

Is something like this allowed? it has a crane for lifting timber but can also haul the timber on its own...

No, not allowed, since it can not hoist, just grab, and also it can carry the load on designed cargo box, so its not a crane.

[aminnich]

http://thumb1.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/820705/160715540/stock-vector-various-types-of-cranes-vector-illustration-160715540.jpg

I think this picture basically sums up what all you can build for this contest

[Jim]

That's indeed a nice reference!

[Beck]

I love the idea of building a crane! I just feel the time constraint is too much of an issue. I don't think 1 2/3 months is enough to build a crane. Most are quite large and require lots of time. I'd really appreciate if the end date was moved to Dec 1 or some later date.

[aminnich]

I dont think this contest is necessarily who can bigger the largest crane, so depending on how much time you have should be a size constraint. Sure some people are going to be making tower cranes taller than themselves, but you do not have to go as extreme.

[Milan]

I dont think this contest is necessarily who can bigger the largest crane...

I agree. What i would love to see, besides great examples of big cranes, are medium to large models with great solutions to the most common weak spots, such as fully working (automated) outriggers, strong and working turntable with roller ring, efficient brick built actuators and few section boom. Or, for the tower cranes, fully working model with awesome trolley mechanism and stable operation. Of course, all that in nice aesthetic finish.

And these are just the most common types of cranes.

[Jim]

I also agree it's not about size.

However, if more people think they need more time, we're willing to move the deadline.