Bionicle 2008 Images and Discussion

[Pigbrick]

Transformers and GI Joe are much older than Bionicle, so even though they both have a large market with kids to this day, they keep a sizeable market in the older audience that grew up with these toys. Bionicle doesn't have this luxary - even though there is an audience of people who got into it back in 2001 (many of us here fit this profile), it's way too small to try appealing too.

I'm quite aware of that but I'm pointing out that there is a market for nostalgia. I think the Transformers Classics line is the best example on what I wanted for Bionicle this year. Classics has the old G1 characters with a modern look for today's younger audience to find appealing but still retain the familiar look and design that the older group will recognize and buy also.

I'm just surprise that the closer resemblance to older toa prototypes (CROTPs for short) had a negative affect on the testers. I really didn't think that it would matter too much to them.

Edited February 23, 2008 by Pigbrick

[Clonie]

It shows that the set designers at least tried to appeal to the nostalgic fans. But in the end they need to go with the majority. We're just a handful of votes. But hey, I like the Phantoka Toa. Sue me. And Tahu's really good too. Yay.

I wonder how many people that wanted complex sets are actually gonna buy the vehicles. I mean if enough people buy them they'll start making more complex stuff. Right? Well they at least struck a chord with me -- I didn't buy the playsets, but I'm buying these vehicles. Probably. I wouldn't mind a nice solid build once in a while.

[Nako Nuva]

I don't think we have to worry about just launchers in the canisters YET. First we'll suffer through the Bley Goon Squad, then we might have to watch them transform into launchers. We have a bit more suffering to go through before the launcher-canister demons win out.

I tell you one thing, though, I'ma keep my kids away from launchers. I'll raise 'em up to fear those shooty horrors and prefer only the good ol' melee weapons. Get em into the focus groups as sleeper agents, bwahahaha!

[Dark_Avenger]

I'm quite aware of that but I'm pointing out that there is a market for nostalgia. I think the Transformers Classics line is the best example on what I wanted for Bionicle this year. Classics has the old G1 characters with a modern look for today's younger audience to find appealing but still retain the familiar look and design that the older group will recognize and buy also.

There is no doubt a nostalgic audience, but for LEGO it would be like running for president and only campaigning in Rhode Island. As we've heard, the designers did try finding a middle ground - appealing to the kiddies while giving some nods to the old-timers - but that's not what their biggest target market preferred.

I guess now some of you can aim your hate away from Greg and the set designers and toward those clever little focus groups instead. :-)

[Icesaber]

There is no doubt a nostalgic audience, but for LEGO it would be like running for president and only campaigning in Rhode Island. As we've heard, the designers did try finding a middle ground - appealing to the kiddies while giving some nods to the old-timers - but that's not what their biggest target market preferred.

I guess now some of you can aim your hate away from Greg and the set designers and toward those clever little focus groups instead. :-)

Yep. Damn those focus groups :P! I'd like to see the early prototypes of the Phantoka, though. I want to see if they are anywhere close to the originals and why the focus groups rejected them.

[Zaktan of the Shadows]

If we wanted to "abandon" the old fans, we wouldn't have the Nuva in story at all this year -- we could have just retconned out the fact that they have to carry out this mission, since most current fans don't know that, and made a new team of Toa for 2008. The ONLY reason the Nuva are back is being some of us on the story team argued that old fans would expect them to be. Frankly, some of the stuff I see on here makes me regret making that argument, and that maybe it just isn't worth trying to make gestures toward long-time fans since we seem to end up just getting bashed for it.

Greg

You know he is correct on this part.

-ZotS

[JINZONINGEN73]

Zaktan of the Shadows

post Today, 12:00 AM

QUOTE

If we wanted to "abandon" the old fans, we wouldn't have the Nuva in story at all this year -- we could have just retconned out the fact that they have to carry out this mission, since most current fans don't know that, and made a new team of Toa for 2008. The ONLY reason the Nuva are back is being some of us on the story team argued that old fans would expect them to be. Frankly, some of the stuff I see on here makes me regret making that argument, and that maybe it just isn't worth trying to make gestures toward long-time fans since we seem to end up just getting bashed for it.

Greg

You know he is correct on this part.

-ZotS

Wait a minute... I thought "there was no market for nostalgia". X-O

Annoying thing here is, some pinhead in their home office is going to look at the online response to the sets and go, "Oh well, we TRIED to throw the "nostalgia" guys a bone and it looks like we were right that there was no point to it!"

No, no, WRONG. They just messed it ALL the hell up from start to finish!

As for equating Transformers to Bionicle...

...The REASON people want 9,974,872 different versions of alot of those characters is NOT merely because those franchises managed to stay alive 20 years.

It's because Optimus, Megatron, Bumblebee, Soundwave, Starscream, etc etc were in front of our faces FOR A FEW YEARS STRAIGHT FROM THE VERY BEGINNING. You had a good long time to get to know what they did on their Friday nights and who they liked back in Cyber-Kindergarten.

It wasn't until a few years after the launch that those faces were getting killed / being removed from the ongoing story. (At which point, the franchise collapsed!)

Some of you are confusing "age of franchise" with "connection to characters".

What character do Bionicle characters have? Who's going to be screaming for a Tahu Nuva t-shirt 20 years from now so they can look "retro"?

Who's going to be thinking back to the "good old days" of Bionicle when they had weapons no more complex than the cheap, gimmicky stuff one buys at a dollar store or finds in a bag of Under-3 party favors?!?

The 2001 masks had "character". The clever and independent little Tohunga seen in the 2001 flash movies had character. The mostly silent yet dedicated protector Toa of those same mini-clips had character.

The stuff now is just... gimmick. Expected. Cookie-cutter. Cliche'.

Boob bait for bubbas.

:-/

Of course, ignore my nostalgia and look directly at the parts. For that's what ALL Lego is about.

It's all about the parts, man.

[Darkness Falls]

You know, I find it hard to say this, but the more I look at Tahu Nuva Mistika, the more I see the original Tahu. Doesn't anyone see the Hau-shaped moth on the outside of his mask's ridges?

Meh, maybe it's just me.

[Clonie]

(Please read. :-P )

Well it seems we're going through this resemblance thing again so I might as well add my three cents.

1) The focus groups aren't evil. They're people. They're the target audience. Okay, so let's say they approve of everything Lego throws at them. But wait, why would they diss prototypes they don't like? Because they have opinions. Just like us. Imagine if Lego came here for set advice, and inevitably, we'd lessen the appeal to younger fans. Then the target audience would be like "Damn those EBers!" :-P

2) Lego cares. Why try and make closer Nuva resemblance if they didn't care? But in the end they have to listen to the majority. They have opinions too. Or else they'd just let us have the more Nuva-ish prototypes they made. I already made this point, but it's easier for you to remember. :-P

3) They have character resemblances. Look at Pohatu's mask, for example. Can't you see Pohatu in those eyes? The look the Vahi-ish mask shape gives them? The stature of his body? Granted, he's orange. But I noticed something, since they scrapped brown.

Hewkii Inika - Yellow

Carapar - Yellow

Hewkii Mahri - Yellow

Pohatu - Orange

Bitil - Yellow

Yellow, yellow, yellow, orange, yellow.

They changed to orange just once, for Pohatu? That was nice of them. After all, Pohatu's old brown is (really really really) dark orange. Orange is the closest they can get to brown without, you know, failure of saleure.

Then, look at the new Miru. It is Lewa. The eyes! He looks like a true warrior of the air, a Phantoka, which after his experiences as a Toa Nuva, he should, more than a joker guy. It's all about the eyes. Had the eyes been Inika blobs -- no, fail. And the main colour is different, now it's lime. But the old sets had lime as well, and, judging by the lack of Lewa on shelves, seems to be appealing. And goes better with grey than dark green or Mata green would, at least in my opinion. I'll get to the grey in a minute.

Kopaka is the most obvious. Once again, the eyes. They looks less cold than he did all those years ago, but that suits the story... I think he's matured a bit by now. He basically has the same colours, and the scope. It's on the opposite side, but what if it looks better that way? At least it has the scope, and personally (and this doesn't mean anyone else has to, I'm just saying), I think it looks good on that side. To that you could say "It doesn't make a difference what side it's on," but that means there's no use worrying about it in the first place. :-P

Oh and he has wings, yes. Some argue that Lewa should have had them. But let's look at it this way. There's three methods of flight in the Phantoka, yes? Wings, propellors, and boosters. Boosters and propellors are based around rapid movement. Wings are not. That is what cold is -- lack of particle movement. I win. :-P Pohatu should have the propellors because they're like his Climbing Claws, except they don't suck, and Lewa should have the boosters because they expel air. He's a Toa of Air, right? ;-)

Their individual weapons are different to their old forms. Well, Pohatu's are similar. And Lewa has one sword instead of two. Kopaka has the bayonet. And really, I don't see what's so un-Kopaka-ish about it.

Anyway, there's the Midak Skyblasters. They're seen as giant bazookaz, but they're not that big -- I have the sets. They're thinner than Cordak, and only slightly longer. But the old sets didn't have them. Actually, why would they pass them up? If you were going to go to battle against a Makuta, would you keep your sword and shield (which were only used to channel elemental power in the first place) or use an adaptive launcher? So there's a practicality thing involved, but that's not to say it's all about practicality -- I think the bayonet is the most artistic weapon of the three Air Toa's, and it's also unique, as a blaster attachment hasn't been done before. It's probably my favourite. Not that that matters, but hey, they appealed to at least one guy here. ;-)

And finally there's the colours. I'll pretend I'm a set designer for a second. I'm gonna make a team of Toa, and do them in two groups. Okay. Got that. So I need to find a way to make the two groups look different, but still make them look like a team. What better than to use two similar and neutral colours? But which colours? Black doesn't look good with every colour on the team... White doesn't necessarily either... Silver would look nice and flashy with the darker colours of the team... And grey would be a nice contrast with the lighter ones. I'll use white, orange (because it's closer to Pohatu's old colour), and lime (because the target age seems to find it appealing) with the dark grey in the air team, and red, blue and black with silver. And incidentally, you'd want to have the two best leaders, Tahu and Kopaka, lead the seperate teams, have Gali and Onua in the swamp, and have Lewa in the air, and Pohatu along for the ride. :-P

So really, I don't think they made any bad choices with the Phantoka Toa Nuva.

I'd rather not make any comment on the Mist Toa yet because a) I'm lazy and b) too early to tell.

And finally, I just feel like reposting this. X-D

If we wanted to "abandon" the old fans, we wouldn't have the Nuva in story at all this year -- we could have just retconned out the fact that they have to carry out this mission, since most current fans don't know that, and made a new team of Toa for 2008. The ONLY reason the Nuva are back is being some of us on the story team argued that old fans would expect them to be. Frankly, some of the stuff I see on here makes me regret making that argument, and that maybe it just isn't worth trying to make gestures toward long-time fans since we seem to end up just getting bashed for it.

Greg

By the way, I'm not against complaining (unless the complaints are illogical), I just think we should look at it from Lego's point of view. Ya?

[JINZONINGEN73]

It's too easy to be hyper-apologetic. Some might say being hyper-critical is the easier path, but when people polish up something that kinda' blows, it sounds like alot of effort goes into it.

I think that not enough people bother to think, "Ok... what various, specific criteria must be met before this or that could be considered really lame"?

Those of you looking at some of us crazy for not liking the majority of these... do you have lines drawn in your head that you feel shouldn't have been crossed but have? Is there more than one? Do you know when you personally decide that there's been too many lines crossed on something? If you don't, then think about it. That kind of mindset is good all over life, not just when talking about a wave of plastic toys.

These new Toa hit quite a few, saved only by better part counts and new pieces.

I think that's an acceptable loss, as it's all about the parts.

But to say the sets are anything but what they are when looking at the intended model... I get personally confounded.

they changed to orange just once, for Pohatu? That was nice of them. After all, Pohatu's old brown is (really really really) dark orange. Orange is the closest they can get to brown without, you know, failure of saleure.

Agreed. He's the ONLY one I want of the good guys on the toy shelves, for real.

Good call on them making him orange.

No matter HOW much one wants nostalgia, you cannot fault Lego when I was there snagging mega-multiples of brown Pohatu and Bohrok for $3 in the clearance bins.

And since Lego (somehow?!?) said it's "impossible" for them to make trans-brown, it's nice seeing a nod back to old Pohatu's trans-neon orange mask. If his new armor had been anything but orange or brown, it would've been a bummer.

(And MAN does that neon orange just jump off the shelf and into your cart or what?)

[Xion]

Your both right, people are looking at these as if they are the Nuva (well they are but follow me on this one). If they were a completely new toa team you would see that people may like them as the sets in themselves are nice. We don't hate the sets. We hate the names. Well as Greg said, would you rather they had got rid of the Nuva completely. The toa we had origionally known were actually doing some other shitty thing in the middle of nowhere and that we had to rely on some new toa team to win for us? Because i wouldn't. So hurrah for the Nuva and Hurrah for the sets.

[Wrinkledlion X]

Wait, trans-neon orange?

[Clonie]

It's too easy to be hyper-apologetic. Some might say being hyper-critical is the easier path, but when people polish up something that kinda' blows, it sounds like alot of effort goes into it.

I didn't really put a lot of effort into the above post. It just took a while to write what I thought in a comprehensible matter. I'm not trying to polish up something that kinda blows (and that is not a fact in any case), I just happen to like Bionicle the way it is. Sometimes I feel like you think I'm crazy for liking it. :-P

And, I don't know that you could say they didn't put effort into the Phantoka Toa. They tried to make them look like the old sets.

I think that not enough people bother to think, "Ok... what various, specific criteria must be met before this or that could be considered really lame"?

Those of you looking at some of us crazy for not liking the majority of these...

I don't think anyone's crazy for not liking them. And I don't think anything about the Phantoka wave has crossed any lines I might have drawn, but that's just me. I don't see what's so bad about the sets really. In fact I'm surprised no one seems to be praising the Toa Ignika, look at those parts, well, you can't see them, look at the instructions. :-P

In my honest opinion, the Phantoka wave is the closest they've come to perfect. The only thing I would have changed, or rather, not have changed in the first place is the pin/rod colours, but I don't really care.

Do you have lines drawn in your head that you feel shouldn't have been crossed but have?

None have been crossed, no. :-P

Is there more than one?

No. :-P

Do you know when you personally decide that there's been too many lines crossed on something?

Yes. None have been crossed. :-P

But to say the sets are anything but what they are when looking at the intended model... I get personally confounded.

I'm talking about the Phantoka Toa at the moment... I personally get confounded when people can't find similarities in those three. :-P But I need to stress this, I'm talking about character similarity, not set similarity. Eh, confusing.

Agreed. He's the ONLY one I want of the good guys on the toy shelves, for real.

Good call on them making him orange.

No matter HOW much one wants nostalgia, you cannot fault Lego when I was there snagging mega-multiples of brown Pohatu and Bohrok for $3 in the clearance bins.

And since Lego (somehow?!?) said it's "impossible" for them to make trans-brown, it's nice seeing a nod back to old Pohatu's trans-neon orange mask. If his new armor had been anything but orange or brown, it would've been a bummer.

(And MAN does that neon orange just jump off the shelf and into your cart or what?)

The lime green box seemed to jump off the shelf more than the orange one, but that's just me. :-P

Edited February 24, 2008 by Clonie

[Icesaber]

Wait, trans-neon orange?

His Kaukau was trans-orange, remember? Or that's what I think Jinzo is referring to.

[Pigbrick]

There is no doubt a nostalgic audience, but for LEGO it would be like running for president and only campaigning in Rhode Island. As we've heard, the designers did try finding a middle ground - appealing to the kiddies while giving some nods to the old-timers - but that's not what their biggest target market preferred.

I guess now some of you can aim your hate away from Greg and the set designers and toward those clever little focus groups instead.

Nothing makes my day than finding a new scapegoat :-D! But really, that's not what I had intended though. I feel really left out with today's Bionicle, it has really changed since the beginning. It feels like LEGO is running for president ( ;-)) but all the little states (like Rhode Island) can't have a say, but of course they give the tiny states a gold star sticker for being apart of the USA. So how do you respond to that: Thanks for keeping us in mind but this isn't really doing anything? I just feel as an older fan that I'm being kicked out of something that I once liked.

(You can now cry at my moving speech)

To end on a happy note, I really like the vehicles (except for the load of silver pieces). I haven't been this happy about a Bionicle vehicle since the Ussanui. The designs look solid, the shooting pieces look hidden, and it doesn't look like jumble pieces thrown together. I really like this direction :-).

And MAN does that neon orange just jump off the shelf and into your cart or what?

The lime green box seemed to jump off the shelf more than the orange one, but that's just me.

That's why I end up buying a lot of citrus fruit X-D. Nature's best marketing scheme.

Edited February 24, 2008 by Pigbrick

[Makuta'sdarkslave]

Well, I finally get to say it. I've been waiting a long time for this day. But I'm just doing it because I'm nbored. Ahem. YAAH! 120 PAGES OR MORE!!! Okay... I'm done. :-$

Edit: Not to be rude or anything, but what in the hell was this post about?

-JINZO

[JINZONINGEN73]

Oh look, it's the OTHER 2008 Bionicle sets... the bootleg ones. :-D

Didn't get a good pic of the Keetongu ripoff, but he's on the packaging.

http://flickr.com/photos/11579617@N02/2290...in/photostream/

http://flickr.com/photos/11579617@N02/2291...in/photostream/

[VBBN]

kokojo saw this one:

Anyway, I hope that the instructions for the mistika have nice backrounds like 2004.

Edit: Hey, in that fake sidorak, I see a red metru head...

Edited February 25, 2008 by ~VBBN~

[Zarkan]

Oh look, it's the OTHER 2008 Bionicle sets... the bootleg ones. :-D

LOL! :-D Man, if TLC ever saw these, heads would roll! X-D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Okay, after browsing all the Toyfair pictures on BZP, I

[InnerRayg]

You know what Clonie? I need to write Greg a letter sometime. Let him know it was the right choice. Having the Nuva back is good, and when the books come out it will be like old times again..

And frankly, I do enjoy the Phantoka. I'm on record here and BZP saying that I loved the new designs and enjoyed what Lego had done while still keeping the characters somewhat true to what they are.

But the fact of the matter is that I hate the Mistika Newva. Not because they are such terrible designs.

I hate them because Lego did -so well- this first half of the year. I had fully planned to purchase every Canister set this year before I saw the Mistika Newva. They singlehandly reduced my spending by at least $100, and probably more, for this year. I understand the reasoning of the Lego team and the sacrifices they made to get the Nuva back...

but I dunno. Frankly, if they're going to try and reconcile us fans, I would rather they just not even try if they're only going to half-megablocks it. This is why Lego fights so hard to keep the prototype images out of our hands, because they know how easily it will stop our spending early on. I was keyed to purchase every single Phantoka. Now I'm only looking at the Canister Makuta and nothing else. And I don't think it's my fault. I think they needed to stay consistent with their redesigns, to at least make token efforts to us fans, and for the love of everything that is holy for once in the company's existence make the freaking blue Toa a little less bulky than the others, not more.

[JINZONINGEN73]

and for the love of everything that is holy for once in the company's existence make the freaking blue Toa a little less bulky than the others, not more.

Indeed. Also, I mean, why oh why didn't they just take a clue from bootleggers and build the chicks a simple, boob-like, modified Nuva armor?

http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=2006269

Greg will say, "OH, but you saw how the kids on BZ received the LAST female Titan we did!" ...but really, THOSE boobs were giant and silly, with holes in the center perfect for slapping on pink or red 1x1 discs.

This armor on the bootleg is just... obvious. Common sense.

Then there's the executive pinhead argument of "Well, boys seeing girl figures in their boy toy lines make them think it's less manly"... ...yeah, like with Star Wars, GI Joe, Transformers and a million other toy lines of extreme popularity?

What YEAR is this kind of thinking from?!?

[BrotherDog]

Indeed. Also, I mean, why oh why didn't they just take a clue from bootleggers and build the chicks a simple, boob-like, modified Nuva armor?

http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=2006269

Greg will say, "OH, but you saw how the kids on BZ received the LAST female Titan we did!" ...but really, THOSE boobs were giant and silly, with holes in the center perfect for slapping on pink or red 1x1 discs.

This armor on the bootleg is just... obvious. Common sense.

Then there's the executive pinhead argument of "Well, boys seeing girl figures in their boy toy lines make them think it's less manly"... ...yeah, like with Star Wars, GI Joe, Transformers and a million other toy lines of extreme popularity?

What YEAR is this kind of thinking from?!?

What color is the phony-Keet?

On a similar note. There was an Avak-fake that was in Green with green claw feet I saw in Tyranide's B-shelf folder. It would have been nice to get those feet in that color. Not that I support those guys, but hey Lego make some of those parts in other colors will you?!?! ;;D

Edited February 26, 2008 by BrotherDog

[JINZONINGEN73]

What color is the phony-Keet?

Yellow, just as he should be. The only one who they really changed was turning the chick blue.

[Clonie]

Greg will say, "OH, but you saw how the kids on BZ received the LAST female Titan we did!" ...but really, THOSE boobs were giant and silly, with holes in the center perfect for slapping on pink or red 1x1 discs.

This armor on the bootleg is just... obvious. Common sense.

I'm afraid any hint of titties will set BZP's immatureness off. I've never seen a discussion on feminine sets that didn't get awkward, and eventually closed.

But of course, they don't need to make Gali look like Vezok.

But then again, the mask is kinda growing on me...

The chin looks less big there, and the way the eye looks with the eye hole looks feminine. I'll reserve judgement on the food strainer until I find out its story purpose, if it has one. I don't get why the wings needed to be there though. :-/

So yeah, it's an okay mask. For once I'm in the minority.

Oh great, now people will think I automatically like every set for no reason. Damn.

[Asuka]

Ahem.... hi. :-$

I became a Bionicle fan when I first saw that smart Onua back in 2001, and I got a lot of

sets during the first two years of that line. But then some kind of repetition effect kicked

in and I lost my interest. I only bought one or two sets per year since than, mainly when

some (IMHO) interesting set design caught my eye, like with 8811: Toa Lhikan and Kikanalo

or when I thought there