Future Castle Sets?

[kouz-one]

I think that there's a "problem" with the western theme for Lego these days, the "racism", cause it can be viewed as the white guys vs the non-white guys....

cowboys vs bandits could do the work, but does the kids still even interested in this theme, with the culture and education nowadays, especially for the US market???

[x105Black]

I feel that there is value to a Western theme, and it could be done well. Cowboys versus Bandits would be a good direction, with some Native Americans and Banditos thrown in, along with some civilians. Banks, General Stores, Taverns, and Ranches could all work here.

But I agree there is much more value in a Castle theme, and it could be done superbly well. There's so much more that could be explored aside from the usual Castle, Carriage, Gate House sets. Forestmen and Wolfpack work so well to break up the tedium and monotony in the Castle theme, and are severely underused.

[Aanchir]

Do American kids play cowboys and Indians still? It's not very common in the UK these days. I used to in the 1970s back when the Milky Bar Kid was popular, but rarely see kids playing it these days. I don't know if that is due to the more modern views about Native Americans / American Indians. Whereas kids here do play knights, I've taken mine to quite a few knights and princess parties over the years.

It wasn't common when I was growing up. "Western" was still a theme that party stores might offer for birthday parties or Halloween costumes, but I don't think I ever got invited to any Western-themed parties. Heck, the movies Toy Story and Toy Story 2 have a lot to do with Western-themed toys and media falling out of fashion.

I think that there's a "problem" with the western theme for Lego these days, the "racism", cause it can be viewed as the white guys vs the non-white guys....

cowboys vs bandits could do the work, but does the kids still even interested in this theme, with the culture and education nowadays, especially for the US market???

Yeah, this is a good point. The whole westward expansion movement in this country's history was not really one of our most stellar moments. And it's tough to portray that period of history without getting into that controversy. You don't want to sugar-coat the way settlers displaced natives, often violently, but at the same time, erasing the natives from the picture entirely creates much the same problem.

The original Western theme seemed to try to position the Indians as a "third party" to the settlers and bandits, the same way the Forestmen were to the knights or the M:Trons were to the Space Police and Blacktrons. This somewhat averted the "Cowboys vs. Indians" problem — it didn't present the settlers and Indians as BFFs, but didn't present them as vicious enemies either. They were separate factions occupying nearby spaces, and how they interacted was largely up to kids. But it was problematic in other ways. For instance, the Indians and even one of the bandits were given large, exaggerated noses and pointy, highly detailed eyes that made them resemble cringeworthy racial caricatures. Plus, the Indians were extremely historically inaccurate. They were given tepees like the Plains Indians and totem poles like Pacific Northwest Indians, but set in locations that resembled the Pueblo Indians. Now, obviously, a lot of this was just reflecting previous misrepresentations of Native American culture in media, but that doesn't make it right.

Castle has things a lot easier, I think. That's not to say there was no racism in the Middle Ages — far from it — but the more grounded Castle themes manage to mostly avert that by focusing on clashes between factions that are just "ambiguously European". You generally can't peg one Castle faction as Englishmen and one Castle faction as Frenchmen, for instance. And the more fantasy-oriented Castle themes just pit these "ambiguously European" races against "ambiguously European" fictional archetypes like wizards or trolls. The Western genre doesn't have this kind of literary tradition that allows you to easily distance it from the racial politics of the time. Western heroes generally didn't fight magical monsters, unless you count folk heroes from "tall tales" like Paul Bunyan, and there aren't a lot of "ambiguously American" archetypes to turn into factions.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Aanchir

[Artanis I]

Milky Bar Kid

Wow. Thanks for that.

The movies & TV shows from the mid 20C were typically "cowboys (in general) are good, indians are bad". I had some plastic army-style men as a kid. I think the political correctness movement (or perhaps, anti-racist) has made the western/frontier theme (I don't mean Lego, I mean over all) a warmish potato in recent decades. Some good movies here & there but generally left alone.

It's the most recent real-world conflict that TLG touches, and they don't like to go close to modern-day conflict, but this could perhaps be pushing the limit anyway considering it was certain people groups being attacked rather than location-based victims of pirates and castle knights. Probably best left alone as it's a sore spot for many alive today.

[BrickJagger]

Is Western more likely to come back before "Regular" Castle does?

Westerns seem to be selling poorly these days, but NK is the resident Castle theme for the next three years at the very least.

Personally I'm hoping for a return to Vikings, but Western would be good, too.

[Wattle-Daub]

Have you seen my signature yet?

Ha! Actually, I posted THEN saw your signature and threw up my hands like "whelp, there we are."

[SirBlake]

Is Western more likely to come back before "Regular" Castle does?

Westerns seem to be selling poorly these days, but NK is the resident Castle theme for the next three years at the very least.

Personally I'm hoping for a return to Vikings, but Western would be good, too.

I feel bad for western. It's fun and fertile ground for adventure, I've just never been a fan in Lego form.... And I'm born and raised in Fort Worth. "Where the West begins"

For castle I'm really interested in the big creator/modular angle. It could lead to great builds and wouldn't interfere with Nexo.

[Wolvarie]

Insert burning effigy of Nexo Knights being known as a castle theme....

Urgh the wait continues...come back Kingdoms I miss thee and your Market Square, your joust, your farm with windmill for grinding grain, your green dragons...crownies, lions, black falcons, dwarves, goblins, skeletons. Be bold LEGO, you can afford to keep the AFOL's happy. Would be interesting to know how much of a % of buying power the AFOL community now has.

[Lyichir]

Insert burning effigy of Nexo Knights being known as a castle theme....

Urgh the wait continues...come back Kingdoms I miss thee and your Market Square, your joust, your farm with windmill for grinding grain, your green dragons...crownies, lions, black falcons, dwarves, goblins, skeletons. Be bold LEGO, you can afford to keep the AFOL's happy. Would be interesting to know how much of a % of buying power the AFOL community now has.

I doubt the AFOL community makes up much more of a percentage of Lego's overall sales than it ever did. After all, interest in Lego seems to be at an all-time high, but that's not exclusive to adult fans—I'm sure that for every increase in AFOL purchases, KFOL purchases have kept pace or perhaps even surged ahead.

[x105Black]

I doubt the AFOL community makes up much more of a percentage of Lego's overall sales than it ever did. After all, interest in Lego seems to be at an all-time high, but that's not exclusive to adult fans—I'm sure that for every increase in AFOL purchases, KFOL purchases have kept pace or perhaps even surged ahead.

Still, it would be interesting to actually know the numbers. With the ever-growing popularity of LEGO, even a small percentage can be a significantly high number of individual buyers.

[Dr.Cogg]

there must be a decent amount of AFoL for TLG to make D2C sets and sets like the Ecto1.

[Isundir]

You say "I for one would love it if LEGO released Historical Creator Expert Sets, hint hint."

We're going to end up with a massive Western set, but still no Castle.

Well I would love non-Castle/Medieval Historical builds too... but when I personally think of History the Wild West is a bit too young :p (but I can understand most people see it differently and technically you could argue that a second ago is already history). I'd love to see Cave Men builds, Roman or Greek historical builds, Oriental historical builds, Vikings etc.

[SirBlake]

Still, it would be interesting to actually know the numbers. With the ever-growing popularity of LEGO, even a small percentage can be a significantly high number of individual buyers.

I'd prefer not to get too mired in the "value of AFOLs to TLG" discussion, but I would like to highlight a secondary benefit: Many, if not most of us have kids, and the amount of money spent on Lego for my daughter is considerably higher than it would be if I were not an AFOL. We play and build together a lot, and if I were just a regular dad, she'd likely be choosing Barbie or American Girl dolls more than she already does instead of Lego.

[kabel]

I'd prefer not to get too mired in the "value of AFOLs to TLG" discussion, but I would like to highlight a secondary benefit: Many, if not most of us have kids, and the amount of money spent on Lego for my daughter is considerably higher than it would be if I were not an AFOL. We play and build together a lot, and if I were just a regular dad, she'd likely be choosing Barbie or American Girl dolls more than she already does instead of Lego.

I can only second this. Just bought a LEGO train for the kids ... Who knows, they probably would have been given a model train instead

[x105Black]

I'd prefer not to get too mired in the "value of AFOLs to TLG" discussion, but I would like to highlight a secondary benefit: Many, if not most of us have kids, and the amount of money spent on Lego for my daughter is considerably higher than it would be if I were not an AFOL. We play and build together a lot, and if I were just a regular dad, she'd likely be choosing Barbie or American Girl dolls more than she already does instead of Lego.

That's a great point, and it is true in the case of my brother as well. And me, as an uncle.

[thetang22]

Still to this day, I think any figures that anybody (even Lego) has about what % of sales are for AFOLs is complete baloney. I don't believe there is any remotely accurate way to measure it.

[BrickJagger]

Still to this day, I think any figures that anybody (even Lego) has about what % of sales are for AFOLs is complete baloney. I don't believe there is any remotely accurate way to measure it.

Agreed. the only way to get an accurate number would be to have a digital survey at the checkout that asks what type of Lego fan they are.

[thetang22]

Agreed. the only way to get an accurate number would be to have a digital survey at the checkout that asks what type of Lego fan they are.

Even that I wouldn't put a ton of stock in. I think there are likely a decent amount of adults who wouldn't like to admit they are still fans of something that is widely accepted as "children's toys."

[x105Black]

And if they did such a survey, they'd have to do it at every retailer that sells LEGO products to be completely accurate, and that's not going to happen.

[SirBlake]

There are ways to survey and gather statistically useful data without polling every single consumer. Lego does this on their own site from time to time. They don't share the findings though, so I suppose it's a moot point.

[thetang22]

Call me a skeptic, but I just don't believe any of these methods are a true representation of the whole, and operate on lots of derived data, assumptions, and guesswork.

[x105Black]

Exactly. There are probably a lot of things that slip through the cracks of such surveys. Entire pockets of statistically skewing people could be missed.

But we should get back to the point, talking about future sets in the Castle theme.

My fault for derailing, I should do my part to rerail.

[Micheal Kalkwarf]

Here is a suggestion for the next castle set Lego could build. It is a modular castle system.

This first small castle you see was built from my modular castle system. This modular castle system based on 4x8 and 8x8 modules. They are designed to connect in all 3 dimensions so you can build walls, towers, keeps and fortresses. The example below was built using the easily interchangeable modules in about a Minute. The modules themselves are constructed from standard Lego parts.

Modular Castle Two Towers by Michael Kalkwarf, on Flickr

Here is an example of a larger castle that you could build using this modular system. Something close to this version was displayed at Brickcon 2015.

Lego modular castle 16 by Michael Kalkwarf, on Flickr

Here is a picture of the room modules. These can be used to create castle walls, towers or a maze of rooms. They connect to each other using a pair of Lego Technic pins on each side of the module. These are located near the top of the module. Other modules, the balcony and bridge modules also make use of theses sets of pins to hang off the side of the rooms to create more surface area for additional modules to be placed. The top of the room modules has 4 raised flat round tiles, one at each corner and four exposed studs to help secure modules placed on top. These room modules can be stacked directly on top of one another to build a tower as tall as you wish. They can also be placed on top of each other offset by half a module which could create additional space on either side for a 4x8 battlement module.

[Herurl=https://flic.kr/p/AfPp6R]Lego Modular Castle room modules[/url] by Michael Kalkwarf, on Flickr

Here are various versions of the half or 4x8 battlement modules. They clip into the top of any room, balcony or bridge module using the same system of 4 raised tiles and 4 exposed studs. These allow you to create a play space on top of any of the other modules. It also allows you to have battlements on both sides of a wall.

Lego Modular Castle Half Battlement modules by Michael Kalkwarf, on Flickr

The modules below are the bridge and balcony modules. They each come in half, 4x8 and whole 8x8. These connect to the room modules using the pair of Lego Technic Pins. Once connected, these modules use the same system of 4 flat tiles and 4 exposed studs to make placing another room or battlement module on top possible. They are designed to maintain the same floor height of the module they are attached to. This ensures a standard height for each floor making it easy to connect and have a flat battlement area all around your fortress without the need for steps. The bridges have a set of pins on each 8 stud side allowing you to bridge a gap between rooms or walls leaving a decorative archway in between. This can give the effect of a room suspended with nothing beneath it The balconies only have a set of pins on one side. This can create a new space to place a room or battlement that extends out from the side of the module it is attached to. Lining up the balconies with the large arched doorways creates passageways to the battlements.

Lego Modular Castle balconies and bridges by Michael Kalkwarf, on Flickr

To see a video demonstration of this system go to

Here we have a front and back view of a hybrid of the balcony and battlement modules. They also use the pair of Lego Technic pins to clip into the corresponding pair of pin holes on any room or bridge module below where you want the balcony to hang. These match the floor level of the module above to allow a decorative balcony or curved battlement without a difference in the floor height.

Lego Modular Castle curved battlement and balcony by Michael Kalkwarf, on Flickr

If you want to top off a tower with a decorative roof instead of a battlement, the roof and height extender module go together well.

Lego Modular Castle roof and extender by Michael Kalkwarf, on Flickr

Next is a view of the bottom room modules. Here is a front and back look at 3 different versions. The one in the center is a corner piece. Typically these bottom room modules are used to form the bottom level of your castle. These modules also have the Lego Technic Pin holes that allow you to connect any two modules together or hang balconies and battlement out from the wall.

Lego Modular Castle bottom Modules by Michael Kalkwarf, on Flickr

Below are 2 different whole or 8x8 battlement modules. These can be placed on top of any room module, bridge or balcony. The one with 4 sides is typically used to make the top of a watch tower. While the one with 2 sides can be used to connect the doorways of 2 rooms or towers that are diagonal to each other.

Lego Modular Castle whle Battlement Modules by Michael Kalkwarf, on Flickr

Here are a couple examples of some smaller castles built with this system. I also have a few more modules that I did not include in this post. The modules go together quickly and easily and do not break when pulled apart to move them. The more modules you have the larger and more intricate castle you can build. The possibilities are endless.

Modular Lego Castle two watchtowers by Michael Kalkwarf, on Flickr

Modular Castle Central Tower by Michael Kalkwarf, on Flickr

If you are interested in seeing more castles built from this system as well as a demonstration of how the modules connect to each other. There are more pictures on MocPages and Flickr.

http://www.mocpages.com/mocs.php?id=120740

https://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelkalkwarf/albums

To see a demonstration of how these modules go together or to see a small castle being assembled, please go to my YouTube Channel. There is also a stop motion of a castle morphing into over 100 different configurations by moving the modules around.

I have submitted this modular Lego castle system to Lego Ideas as the Kingdoms Modular Castle. If you like this system, please vote for it.

https://ideas.lego.com/projects/116214

[x105Black]

The modular castle idea in general is a great one, and something I think LEGO should look into. There are many examples of how to make it work, and I'm sure LEGO'd designers can come up with more great ideas. I've supported the above idea on LEGO Ideas already, but it's nice to see it here.

Speaking of 'modular' ideas, I'd love something comparable to the Expert Modular builds like the new Brick Bank and Detective's Office, made in the medieval Castle theme. It's been suggested many times, but I'll say it again, a remake of the Medieval Market Village in this style would be most welcome.

Edited October 29, 2015 by x105Black

[Space Police XVIII]

Here is a suggestion for the next castle set Lego could build. It is a modular castle system.

That is just AWESOME. Suddenly I want to build a castle..