OFFICIAL REPORT TRAINS 9V

[lluisgib]

LEGO 9V Train Communication

Billund, Oct. 1st

[Hinckley]

Thanks lluisgib for the update.

Personally, I'm not very happy about it at first thought. It seems to me every corporation in the world is moving down the path of concern only for the bottom line...

But I'll keep an open mind about the new system. Have they said how they expect Train sales to stay up in the interim?

Thanks again for bringing this to us.

[indyj19]

hmm that is interesting well i hope it isn't as weird as the rc stuff with the huge battery box man

this will probably raise prices of 9v sets on brick link >:-(

i'm already broke as it is

[Tohst]

This is a sad development. I wonder what it will mean for the future of Lego train groups. I mean besides buying up every bit of track and every motor they can get their hands on.

The moving trains always seem to be a hit at Lego shows and I can see the kids that come to the shows being very happy with power function trains when they get to the toy store. I just can't see a battery solution working so well for the shows themselves. :-(

I understand it is a business decision and when I set up my trains, its not for long enough or a large enough setup that this move will affect me much but I think from a intangibles perspective its not the right move.

Ah well, RIP monorail, RIP 9V, I guess it means more money for Trolls.

Have I mentioned I'm lovin' the trolls? *wub*

-Tohst

[highlandcattle]

This is indeed a sad development. It doesn't hurt me as much as most of you since I still use the 12v system *heh*.The new RC system is actually more comptible with 12v system then the 9v is. I have even dreamt about using power functions for trains :)

The only thing that really concerns me is the quality of the new tracks, they look so cheap.

In any case I really have been pondering about the following things:get the Deluxe cargo train or the Caf

[Starwars4J]

Thanks for bringing this news to us! IMO this is a sad development, but only for the tracks. I don't know about these new power functions and whatnot, so I can't make the call if they're better or worse than the originals, but I can say that the tracks that are just plastic look incredibly cheap and that alone turns me off the whole thing :-/

At least they're trying to take us into consideration, thanks for the update!

[lluisgib]

lluisgib could you answer me the following questions: Are the powerfunctions as battery hungry as the RC SYSTEM?

Actually i still do not have any power function set, so i don't know the answer. Let me ask some colleagues about this.

Will it also be released in shops or only on the internet?

More info will come in the following months

Lluis

[Joebot]

Wow. First the grey / brown color change ... then the flesh-toned mini-figs ... now the end of 9V trains.

Does Lego secretly hate AFOLs?

The reason I ask is that these decisions Lego is making really hit the long-time collectors the hardest, by making their existing collections non-compatible with upcoming products. Weird. I think this one is going to cause lots and lots of hard feelings.

[Hinckley]

At least they're trying to take us into consideration, thanks for the update!

Don't mistake a press release with the word AFOL into it as "consideration."

When they say they make their decisions based on current 9V sales, what are they basing that on exactly? This and this? It's easy to says sales are low on a theme that the company buried and didn't produce any new product for. Of course sales are low...I often times feel placated by TLC when we get announcements like this. Yes, they are "consulting" AFOL groups with these decisions, but how much say do these groups really get? LEGO is only concerned with bringing their costs down-IMO.

Don't get me wrong. I appreciate the Ambassadors bringing us the info. Thanks very much! *sweet* *y* However, the news is disheartening.

[Freddie]

I'm having mixed feelings. It's the end of both 9V-trains and RC-trains as we know them, but they say that they try to cater to the enthusiasts as the children. Does that mean the return of the center power pick-up, with a possibility to upgrade battery trains to PF-trains?

I do like the possibilty of automated functions, though. It sort of gives me non-existant flashbacks to the 12V-era.

Highlandcattle; I have some information about the powerfunctions. The current motors are mind-boggingly strong - I have only the small motor, and I've witnessed it rip the gearbox in the old, green 4x4 apart, and my brother had a blast when he had the motor power the ferris wheel directly, watching it disintegrate under the torque and speed that motor puts out. So I reckon that it has to be power-hungry.

But if we get the power pick-ups back that won't matter.

Also; lluisgib, I quoted the first post here in the forums of my local LUG, with link to said post. Hope you don't mind - In fact, I would recommend any members of a LUG to do the same if that's okay with you.

Edit; Steve Witt is also answering some questions over at LUGNET. Go check there for some additional information.

Edit 2; lluisgib, now that we've got you here. Does this change mean that we finally can get LEDs to light up our trains?

Edited October 1, 2007 by Freddie

[lluisgib]

Also; lluisgib, I quoted the first post here in the forums of my local LUG, with link to said post. Hope you don't mind - In fact, I would recommend any members of a LUG to do the same if that's okay with you.

Don't worry abou this. Feel free to share it everywhere

Edit 2; lluisgib, now that we've got you here. Does this change mean that we finally can get LEDs to light up our trains?

No more information than this at the moment. But i have to say that I LOVE LEDS *wub*

[Joebot]

Don't mistake a press release with the word AFOL into it as "consideration."

When they say they make their decisions based on current 9V sales, what are they basing that on exactly? This and this? It's easy to says sales are low on a theme that the company buried and didn't produce any new product for. Of course sales are low...I often times feel placated by TLC when we get announcements like this. Yes, they are "consulting" AFOL groups with these decisions, but how much say do these groups really get? LEGO is only concerned with bringing their costs down-IMO.

Don't get me wrong. I appreciate the Ambassadors bringing us the info. Thanks very much! *sweet* *y* However, the news is disheartening.

Agreed. The impression I get (and I have no idea whether it's accurate or not) is that when TLC "consults with AFOLs," they're just trying to throw us a bone. It's all smoke and mirrors, designed to placate a particularly vocal portion of their consumer base.

I understand that profitability is the keyword these days ... but at the risk of alienating your biggest supporters?? That's just not smart. The Lego train clubs are basically "evangelists" for TLC. They're out in the community, volunteering their time and energy and creativity to promote TLC's products. And TLC returns the favor with a big ol' middle finger. Classy.

Maybe we AFOLs just have unreasonable expectations for what TLC is about. I think we all like to imagine they're a kindly group of friendly toymakers, when in fact they're just another multi-national corporation tyring to make gobs of money.

[Paradosis]

Well, changes are inevitable. At least the whole theme wan't discontinued (*cough*Pirates*cough*), so it could have been worse. :-) Hopefully they'll come out with some good sets in 2009...

[Starwars4J]

You guys talk like TLG has done nothing but give us the shaft. Sure they've messed up big in a lot of areas, and while most of us WOULD have preferred metal tracks, you can't forget all they have done, just for the AFOL.

The UCS series of sets, including the beautiful MF and the fantastic Cafe Corner. Minifig battlepacks and impulse sets, more complex builds, letting fans design some sets, etc. Maybe in this particular instance they looked out for themselves, but I strongly disagree with the idea that they just don't care about this portion of the fanbase, or never listen to us

[Jipay]

Agreed. The impression I get (and I have no idea whether it's accurate or not) is that when TLC "consults with AFOLs," they're just trying to throw us a bone. It's all smoke and mirrors, designed to placate a particularly vocal portion of their consumer base.

I understand that profitability is the keyword these days ... but at the risk of alienating your biggest supporters?? That's just not smart. The Lego train clubs are basically "evangelists" for TLC. They're out in the community, volunteering their time and energy and creativity to promote TLC's products. And TLC returns the favor with a big ol' middle finger. Classy.

Maybe we AFOLs just have unreasonable expectations for what TLC is about. I think we all like to imagine they're a kindly group of friendly toymakers, when in fact they're just another multi-national corporation tyring to make gobs of money.

Well said, I wouldn't have put it in a better way. I don't mind TLC reasoning in term of profitability, but they should say it, for god's sake. That's normal to do what will sustain your company, but there's no need for crappy/hypocrite communication. Everybody knew 9V would go because it was more expensive to produce. Was it necessary to make the most candid AFOLs believe it would remain forever ?

(I shall add I'm a big fan of your comics, and never made the connection between your avatar + nickname = unlikely society until today)

[xwingyoda]

I haven't really followed all these discussions but my understanding is that TLC decided to "kill" the train by adding these power funtionnal gadgets like they use in that AT-AT and all new designers sets |-/

When I read this I am happy not to be a real 9v fan or I would be extremely pissed off !!

*yoda*

[Jipay]

You guys talk like TLG has done nothing but give us the shaft. Sure they've messed up big in a lot of areas, and while most of us WOULD have preferred metal tracks, you can't forget all they have done, just for the AFOL.

The UCS series of sets, including the beautiful MF and the fantastic Cafe Corner. Minifig battlepacks and impulse sets, more complex builds, letting fans design some sets, etc. Maybe in this particular instance they looked out for themselves, but I strongly disagree with the idea that they just don't care about this portion of the fanbase, or never listen to us

That's a different issue we're adressing. We're talking rentability and crapy com here. That doesn't mean we don't know that some programs have shown their potential (ambassadors we love you).

[maiq the liar]

LEGO 9V Train Communication

[highlandcattle]

H*LL YES!

does that mean the trains can run on timers and stop at designated spots without 2,000 RCXs?

lets hope so!

[xwingyoda]

lets hope so!

I hope for you guys !!

After reading that the RC trains are not powerfull enough, I really have doubts about this !! I mean look at how crappy the AT-AT and Dino walk !!

And they do talk about the financial burden of the 9v trains, BUT all the 9v trains I bought didn't have the motor and that you could buy seperatly which did not really increase the price of the set !!

However with the RC train, we have all plastic tracks which do not look good, + you have really expensive sets !!

What other function could the train have ? A noise brick ? I hope its better than the creator one.

I guess we'll have to wait and see, but all those power funtions require batteries (unlike the 9v) and batteries do take some room in a train !! One of the huge design flaw IMO od those RC trains ;-)

*yoda*

[Freddie]

Has anyone realised what sort of collectors' value the current RC-trains will command? There's two, and that's about as many as there ever will be, with the system has a whole only lasting three years...

BTW; I just updated the Wikipedia article on LEGO Trains - nothing major, but let me know what you think (and do the necessary changes as you see fit, but no vandalism!)

Edited October 1, 2007 by Freddie

[Joebot]

You guys talk like TLG has done nothing but give us the shaft. Sure they've messed up big in a lot of areas, and while most of us WOULD have preferred metal tracks, you can't forget all they have done, just for the AFOL.

The UCS series of sets, including the beautiful MF and the fantastic Cafe Corner. Minifig battlepacks and impulse sets, more complex builds, letting fans design some sets, etc. Maybe in this particular instance they looked out for themselves, but I strongly disagree with the idea that they just don't care about this portion of the fanbase, or never listen to us

That's a fair point, and I was probably exaggerating a bit. However, I don't necessarily agree that the UCS sets or the Cafe Corner were done "just for the AFOL." Kids build those sets too.

I guess what really bugs me is the language TLC uses in their press releases these days. I used to think that Lego operated on the philosophy of trying to inspire and educate children. Those are worthwhile, noble goals. Instead we get a press releases that talks about "ammortizing the development and ongoing costs." Ugh. It's just bland marketing-speak by a company that appears to have sold its soul.

On the bright side, there was an encouraging post on Lugnet that said the new Train system would hopefully be somewhat backwards-compatible with the 9V system. I'm skeptical what that will mean, but it is a positive note.

(I shall add I'm a big fan of your comics, and never made the connection between your avatar + nickname = unlikely society until today)

Thanks, dude! Yep, that's me!

[sam89]

Agreed. The impression I get (and I have no idea whether it's accurate or not) is that when TLC "consults with AFOLs," they're just trying to throw us a bone. It's all smoke and mirrors, designed to placate a particularly vocal portion of their consumer base.

I understand that profitability is the keyword these days ... but at the risk of alienating your biggest supporters?? That's just not smart. The Lego train clubs are basically "evangelists" for TLC. They're out in the community, volunteering their time and energy and creativity to promote TLC's products. And TLC returns the favor with a big ol' middle finger. Classy.

Maybe we AFOLs just have unreasonable expectations for what TLC is about. I think we all like to imagine they're a kindly group of friendly toymakers, when in fact they're just another multi-national corporation tyring to make gobs of money.

So you expect TLC to release sets, knowing that they will lose money, just to make a very small minority happy? I have to agree with Starwars4J. TLC have done a lot for AFOLs.

[Brick Miner]

...It's the end of both 9V-trains and RC-trains as we know them...

that is the most striking part of this news to me... not that we are finally seeing the end of 9V (i think we all knew that was coming). but i can't believe that LEGO took the time to develop an entirely new train system, and it only lasted for 3 years !!! now that is just stupid if they want dedicated fans to have faith in the longevity of their products.

im just glad i didn't buy a large amount of the RC stuff, only to find out its finished after two sets !!! what a waist !!!

so, the question is, can we put faith in the new "power functions" train system, or will it be abandoned after 1 or 2 sets ??? that is just silly.

all-in-all, i don't really care what LEGO goes with, as long as its a "SYSTEM"... that is what LEGO is known for, a system of toys that work together in an integrated fashion, so that children and adults experience no limitations to our creativity with their products.

with all of that out, looking at the positive... i'd like to see a new metroliner style train in the new system. i'll look forward to that.

- BM

[Joebot]

So you expect TLC to release sets, knowing that they will lose money, just to make a very small minority happy? I have to agree with Starwars4J. TLC have done a lot for AFOLs.

When those sets are used by volunteer clubs all over the world to provide tons of free advertising and publicity for Lego's products?? You bet. It's a "loss leader." Microsoft does it with XBox 360's. Apple does it with iTunes downloads. They lose money on one product in order to make more money in other areas (video game sales and iPods, respectively).

Honestly, I think we all (myself included) need to stop thinking in terms of Lego "doing things for AFOLs." They did not create the Cafe Corner or the UCS Falcon out of some sense of charity or good will, or as a tribute to AFOLs. No way. They saw a market for a high-end set, so they exploited it. That's good business, and there's nothing wrong with that. But let's be honest with ourselves about their motivations -- Lego does not care about us, beyond our ability to purchase their products.