Dragonfire Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 Regardless, I would say it's a given that we choose the cop for one of our roles. As for a second role, I'm left unsure. The tracker, as I see it, is more advantageous than the watcher, but then we are left with two information-based roles, which could be very risky given the fact that we'd be without a potential resistance role in a doctor or blocker. I lean towards the doctor right now, because the possibility of a strongman, as we've discussed, is only a possibility. For all we know, there might not even be one. How is doctor a better role than blocker? Surely strongman would just nullify both roles? Even if we don't have a strongman, blocker is a better role to have. Also, has anyone else noticed the lack of a vigilante? It seems odd that there wouldn't be one. Is that just because of the low number of us, or could there be a vigilante roaming the camp already? Unlikely that a possible vig is already among us. Most probably there isn't one, because it would end the game way too early.
JackJonespaw Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 Unlikely that a possible vig is already among us. Most probably there isn't one, because it would end the game way too early. So we assume that there is only the scum who are able to kill at night? So the only killing power we have is through lynching.,,
Dragonfire Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 So we assume that there is only the scum who are able to kill at night? So the only killing power we have is through lynching.,, ...which we can't do today, yeah.
JackJonespaw Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 ...which we can't do today, yeah. On the positive side, it won't be the usual unlucky lynched townie situation On the negative side...there goes any chance of getting scum... I would say a vig is possible, but it seems unlikely, as the roles we choose today are assigned randomly...We've gotta play it safe and smart in the lynches.
Piratedave84 Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 I think it could be the opposite. I think we get 1 lottery. I did not agree with this at first but upon re-re-reading the rules it seems as though this may in fact be a onetime thing; we vote today to pick two PRs which we will have for the remainders of the game. I think this gives much more weight to this vote. This being said, a cop with no PM ability is kind of tricky since they won't be able to form a block, won't be able to relay NA results except by claiming in thread. I still think 2 investigative roles is the way to go but I'm open to other suggestions; is there a way we could have the cop not out themselves?
mediumsnowman Posted October 18, 2015 Posted October 18, 2015 I thought we voted and got one-shots to random players each day. If they stay PR's for the rest of the game, we need to vote Cop and Doctor. Cop claims, reports investigation, is protected by doctor. As scum is 2-3 players strong it is highly unlikely they will have a watcher/tracker/rolecop to be able to identify the doc. If it's one shots like I thought, we should vote cop and tracker/watcher today and see what tomorrow holds in store.
Piratedave84 Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 I thought we voted and got one-shots to random players each day. If they stay PR's for the rest of the game, we need to vote Cop and Doctor. Cop claims, reports investigation, is protected by doctor. As scum is 2-3 players strong it is highly unlikely they will have a watcher/tracker/rolecop to be able to identify the doc. If it's one shots like I thought, we should vote cop and tracker/watcher today and see what tomorrow holds in store. I don't think it's one shots; think about it. If we get a one shot and claim, then within 3-4 days we know who's town and the game is decided; that would be faulty mechanics.
mediumsnowman Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 I don't think it's one shots; think about it. If we get a one shot and claim, then within 3-4 days we know who's town and the game is decided; that would be faulty mechanics. Oh, I didn't even think about that. If it's we choose our 2 PR's for the whole game, I'd push for Cop and Doctor. Without a Doc in the setup, and being unable to PM, as soon as the Cop has something to say he's going to get scum-killed.
JackJonespaw Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Oh, I didn't even think about that. If it's we choose our 2 PR's for the whole game, I'd push for Cop and Doctor. Without a Doc in the setup, and being unable to PM, as soon as the Cop has something to say he's going to get scum-killed. Did...not think of that. But for the doctor to protect the cop, he would have to know who he is...but as we can't PM...it would be a shot in the dark. I still think cop and tracker are our best bets. I would much rather have an extra PR than a Doctor protecting a vanilla townie.
mediumsnowman Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Did...not think of that. But for the doctor to protect the cop, he would have to know who he is...but as we can't PM...it would be a shot in the dark. I still think cop and tracker are our best bets. I would much rather have an extra PR than a Doctor protecting a vanilla townie. That's the point. The cop claims in-thread if he has found a scum. The doc would protect him that night.
mediumsnowman Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 I asked DD about the PR voting/lottery in the role PM and she said it is a one-time thing and they will retain their roles for the rest of the game. On a side note, I got permission to relay this in-thread so I'm not breaking any rules.
Piratedave84 Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 I asked DD about the PR voting/lottery in the role PM and she said it is a one-time thing and they will retain their roles for the rest of the game. On a side note, I got permission to relay this in-thread so I'm not breaking any rules. Thanks for clearing it up. About the cop/doctor thing; here are a few scenarios I was thinking of which make me realize having a doctor is maybe not the best bet. Scenario 1: If the cop investigates town night one and claims day 2, we will have 3 confirmed townies (doctor, cop and investigated person), the cop will then be protected but risks being killed if there is a strongarm killer. End result: 3 confirmed town, one dead cop and one useless doctor. Scenario 2: Cop investigates scum night one, claims in thread and reveals scum. We lynch scum, the doctor protects he cop who risks being killed by the strongarm. Result: 1 scum down, one cop down and a useless doctor (again). Scenario 3: If the doctor can protect the same person more than once and if there is no strongarm killer. The cop could theoretically investigate, claim, be protected and recycle the action every night. You know what; the more I think about it, the more I see that the cop risks being an almost one-shot ability (if they have a strongarm ability) as if the cop catches scum he'll be forced to claim and will almost surely die. If the cop investigates town and we then decide to lynch said person then they have to claim and will again surely die. megabluck ... This is intense ...
JackJonespaw Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 At this point I'm pretty unsteady about if there is a strongarm killer or not...it just seems so...odd for it to be mentioned like that. Could the cop maybe not claim if he investigated town, unless in the situation where that person is about to be lynched? I would almost be willing at this point to screw the cop and go with watcher/tracker. They might not tell us as much, but it seems less risky.
Piratedave84 Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 At this point I'm pretty unsteady about if there is a strongarm killer or not...it just seems so...odd for it to be mentioned like that. Could the cop maybe not claim if he investigated town, unless in the situation where that person is about to be lynched? I would almost be willing at this point to screw the cop and go with watcher/tracker. They might not tell us as much, but it seems less risky. Let's assume there is a strongarm and we do decide to take the cop, then it's logical that they don't claim unless they caught scum. I think we should still take the cop over the watcher and the tracker over the watcher. It's as risky (cop/tracker vs. watcher/ tracker) if you think about it but the difference is that the potential payoff is exponentially better if we take the cop.
Darkdragon Posted October 19, 2015 Author Posted October 19, 2015 You may now vote for Town Power Roles. Every player must vote for one roll, each player may vote for two different roles. At the end of Day 1, the two roles with the highest number of votes will be assigned to two random townies. You must choose from this list of Power Roles: Cop: At night, you may learn the alignment of a player you select. Tracker: At night, you may select a player. You will learn the name of the player that person targeted with an ability (if any). Watcher: At night, you may select a player. You will learn the name(s) of the player(s) who targeted that person with an ability (if any). Roleblocker: At night, you may disable all the active abilities of a player of your choice. Doctor: At night, you may choose a player to protect from the Mafia's night kill. They are guaranteed to live through the night unless a Mafia Strongman submitted the kill on them. Voting will be counted only if in the correct format of: Vote: Rolename Unvoting will be counted only if in the correct format of: Unvote: Rolename (I know it's two hours early, but I am already late for bed}
Dragonfire Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Vote: Cop Vote: Tracker I thought we voted and got one-shots to random players each day. If they stay PR's for the rest of the game, we need to vote Cop and Doctor. Cop claims, reports investigation, is protected by doctor. As scum is 2-3 players strong it is highly unlikely they will have a watcher/tracker/rolecop to be able to identify the doc. If it's one shots like I thought, we should vote cop and tracker/watcher today and see what tomorrow holds in store. You are still adamant that there is no strongman. Still pingin' me Oh, I didn't even think about that. If it's we choose our 2 PR's for the whole game, I'd push for Cop and Doctor. Without a Doc in the setup, and being unable to PM, as soon as the Cop has something to say he's going to get scum-killed. Unless there's a freakin' strongman. At this point I'm pretty unsteady about if there is a strongarm killer or not...it just seems so...odd for it to be mentioned like that. Could the cop maybe not claim if he investigated town, unless in the situation where that person is about to be lynched? I would almost be willing at this point to screw the cop and go with watcher/tracker. They might not tell us as much, but it seems less risky. But Cop has a higher reward - it can point blank confirm someone's allegiance. Surely a tracker/watcher would be at the same risk as the cop should they out?
Scubacarrot Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 I would almost be willing at this point to screw the cop and go with watcher/tracker. They might not tell us as much, but it seems less risky. Less risky how? Vote: Cop Vote: Tracker I'm not so sure there would be a strongman, but even if there was not, the blocker has a chance to be unhelpful (by blocking the cop), and the doctor has a chance to protect scum. With the tracker, at least the person that is assigned the role can know if someone is vanilla or scum/town PR. I'm assuming there would be two scum, three seems like too much, and I think it's probably fair to assume both would have a role. Watcher seems marginally less useful than tracker, as the tracker has a chance of being more useful as days go by, while the watcher seems more random all the time, especially with the inability to work together in private. I still think 2 investigative roles is the way to go but I'm open to other suggestions; is there a way we could have the cop not out themselves? Obviously the person that is the cop should not speak out unless they found scum. And possibly when a townie they investigated as such is being lynched. Something just occured to me. So, Cop seems like the best of the possible roles by a landslide, but what if one of the scum is a Godfather? Is that even possible?
JackJonespaw Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Less risky how? Seeing someone target someone, that someone turns out dead, etc. Drawing conclusions versus being told straight out. It just seems less...maybe risky isn't the word, I'm not quite sure what the word is, honestly. But a cop who only says when someone is scum definitely seems like our best option. Tracker seems a better secondary than watcher. Vote: Cop Vote: Tracker So, Cop seems like the best of the possible roles by a landslide, but what if one of the scum is a Godfather? Is that even possible? I would wager for optimism's sake that there isn't, but anything's possible. I would say there's obviously a scum with the ability to kill, and the other role could be...roleblocker? That would make a bit of sense with the whole role voting thing, but I'm just snowballing here. Godfather just doesn't make sense in this situation
Piratedave84 Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Vote: Cop Vote: Tracker This is still the best way to go in my opinion.
def Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 That's the point. The cop claims in-thread if he has found a scum. The doc would protect him that night. The goal of a good cop would be to make a case against scum that would motivate the town to lynch without actually coming out and saying it. It's a different game, but in the Eurobricks Mafia, that was the only way to successfully use results without making a public declaration. It's a pain in the butt for the cop, and the tracker too, but it's important to keep identities quiet while we have the numbers. Whoever gets the roles needs to push the vote with other techniques. Vote: Cop Vote: Tracker
Bob Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Vote: Cop Vote: Tracker I said earlier that the cop and watcher were the best choice, but the tracker is better than a watcher in this case, which is why I'm going with those two.
Dragonator Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Hmmn well this is an interesting first day that's for sure, I like it! Certainly I think a cop is a good idea, but wouldn't a blocker be more helpful to us than a tracker? A blocker has a chance to save a life, whereas a tracker may not track the right person until it is too late.. our numbers are quite small after all. But then, it sounds like the scum can choose who submits the kill, so a blocker would be less useful in that situation. Actually, wouldn't cop and watcher be the best combination? In that instance, the cop can come forward during the day and tell us results, then the watcher can keep an eye on him at night; I think that's a better method of stopping the scum from attacking the cop than a blocker is, as if they strongarm they won't get caught and we lose the cop. However, that does mean our watcher would be tied up looking at the cop and the scum would just target other people. But it keeps our cop alive. If we go cop and tracker, I can't see how the cop can come forward with results without being murdered... Vote: Cop Vote: Watcher I'm still not sure where my dear granddaughter has gone...
TrumpetKing Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 How is doctor a better role than blocker? Surely strongman would just nullify both roles? Even if we don't have a strongman, blocker is a better role to have. Unlikely that a possible vig is already among us. Most probably there isn't one, because it would end the game way too early. I see what you're saying. I don't necessarily see a blocker is any more beneficial in that scenario, though. Both have similar purposes, just with different targets. I guess one could argue that the blocker is more likely to meet success, but that's only if they get a scum. Both roles are left with low chances at the start. I'm not certain there's a strongarm killer yet, in which I would suggest choosing the doctor for our second role. That being said, the possibility of a strongarm is still very much accountable for, and could be a good counter to the same theories brought up earlier about ways to take advantage of having a doctor and a cop. I'm willing to play this out safe. Vote: Cop Vote: Tracker
def Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Actually, wouldn't cop and watcher be the best combination? In that instance, the cop can come forward during the day and tell us results, then the watcher can keep an eye on him at night; I think that's a better method of stopping the scum from attacking the cop than a blocker is, as if they strongarm they won't get caught and we lose the cop. However, that does mean our watcher would be tied up looking at the cop and the scum would just target other people. But it keeps our cop alive. If we go cop and tracker, I can't see how the cop can come forward with results without being murdered... This is quite a good line of thinking. Our voting 'rules' are vague, and have no mention of unvoting for power role elections. Does God want to elaborate on changing votes?
Piratedave84 Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Actually, wouldn't cop and watcher be the best combination? In that instance, the cop can come forward during the day and tell us results, then the watcher can keep an eye on him at night; I think that's a better method of stopping the scum from attacking the cop than a blocker is, as if they strongarm they won't get caught and we lose the cop. However, that does mean our watcher would be tied up looking at the cop and the scum would just target other people. But it keeps our cop alive. If we go cop and tracker, I can't see how the cop can come forward with results without being murdered... I like this idea; it would still give us two invvestigative roles but would also protect the cop in some way. But what happens if the watcher can't target the same person twice? this would then protect the cop once giving us 2 results. This is quite a good line of thinking. Our voting 'rules' are vague, and have no mention of unvoting for power role elections. Does God want to elaborate on changing votes? This was said: SNIP Voting will be counted only if in the correct format of: Vote: Rolename Unvoting will be counted only if in the correct format of: Unvote: Rolename So I think we can change our minds on this. This is quite a good line of thinking. Our voting 'rules' are vague, and have no mention of unvoting for power role elections. Does God want to elaborate on changing votes? This was said: SNIP Voting will be counted only if in the correct format of: Vote: Rolename Unvoting will be counted only if in the correct format of: Unvote: Rolename So I think we can change our minds on this. This is quite a good line of thinking. Our voting 'rules' are vague, and have no mention of unvoting for power role elections. Does God want to elaborate on changing votes? This was said: SNIP Voting will be counted only if in the correct format of: Vote: Rolename Unvoting will be counted only if in the correct format of: Unvote: Rolename So I think we can change our minds on this. sorry about that ... I kept getting error messages!
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