Scooby Doo Mafia: All Fired Up - Day 4

[Piratedave84]

Once again, your complete refusal to even consider Theo a suspect is astounding. Guys, you have to realise that if Patti was town she would not be playing this badly. Any townie wouldn't write another townie off as 'clear' just because they haven't been seen killing when there are most likely two scum and only one scum killer.....

BOOM!

There's no way for you to state that Theo is town unless you know he's town. You didn't investigate him so as such you can't know.

I knew you'd slip eventually!

[TrumpetKing]

I claimed because I knew we could not afford to lynch town again today. I decided that the best way to handle my results was to come out as the cop straight away. I didnt handle Desiree's result as I should have but iNhad to do something without claiming; it was weak but I had nothing else.

I investigates Desiree because she was the second most suspicious person. I investigated you because of your relative inactivity; I didn't find you particularly scummy but you usually are way, way more up front and bold when you're vanilla.

Regarding Lynn or Derrick; Theodore is 'cleared' by virtue of not having been seen killing, like I said earlier it's better to play the odds at this point. Since I'm the cop, Matthew is cleared by my investigation and Theo is not a suspect right now; yeah it's Lynn or Derrick.

Well, if Theodore is "cleared" by not being seen killing, and Matthew is cleared by his investigation, then that would only leave me AND Derrick. Explain to me why it's an or situation. Especially since it's the wrong solution. I know that I'm town, which means, should we lynch the correct cop, Matthew or Theodore is the remaining scum.

I think what's going to be most telling of this is the treatment of Matthew, assuming we are able to continue after today. It's very plausible that he could be the godfather, which could account for the town result from the actual cop, whoever he may be, and the scum, knowing his role, "cleared" him to do so. What I find especially interesting about this is Matthew's assumption that he was investigated for being the most suspicious, which is weird knowing Matthew's past experience. Sure, Derrick says he was suspicious of Matthew, but Patti doesn't. With the amount of games under Matthew's belt, I would see a cop investigating him to gain a clear and earn a number. Granted, we're not allowed to contact others outside of public communication, so in this scenario all that gives us is, well, a number. So, Matthew, are you assuming Patti was also suspicious of you? Or was your response to that point directed solely towards Derrick?

Derrick, forgive me if I missed it, but why were you suspicious of Matthew? I don't recall him saying anything in particular that would have tipped off as scum. Other than the "clear", and perhaps his post I just addressed, I can't think of a reason in particular to investigate him. Would you mind pointing some specific phrases out?

[Darkdragon]

Vote Tally

Derrick (dragonfire) - 1 (piratedave84)

Patti (Piratedave84) - 1 (dragonfire)

You have about 25 hours left to vote.

[Dragonfire]

BOOM!

There's no way for you to state that Theo is town unless you know he's town. You didn't investigate him so as such you can't know.

I knew you'd slip eventually!

Not a slip. By "townie" I was referring to a member of the town (which we all are) in that instance, not someone whose role is town.

Well, if Theodore is "cleared" by not being seen killing, and Matthew is cleared by his investigation, then that would only leave me AND Derrick. Explain to me why it's an or situation. Especially since it's the wrong solution. I know that I'm town, which means, should we lynch the correct cop, Matthew or Theodore is the remaining scum.

Theo's definitely not clear and Matthew isn't 100% clear.

Derrick, forgive me if I missed it, but why were you suspicious of Matthew? I don't recall him saying anything in particular that would have tipped off as scum. Other than the "clear", and perhaps his post I just addressed, I can't think of a reason in particular to investigate him. Would you mind pointing some specific phrases out?

When I have more time, I'll quote some stuff from the last two days. It wasn't really anything much, just that I had a slight scumread on him and a null or town-read on everyone else.

[def]

I claimed because I knew we could not afford to lynch town again today. I decided that the best way to handle my results was to come out as the cop straight away. I didnt handle Desiree's result as I should have but iNhad to do something without claiming; it was weak but I had nothing else.

I investigates Desiree because she was the second most suspicious person. I investigated you because of your relative inactivity; I didn't find you particularly scummy but you usually are way, way more up front and bold when you're vanilla.

Desiree was certainly suspicious, but you made a big issue of Derrick not investigating the most suspicious in Alec. So you investigated me though you didn't think I was scummy? To be honest, I'm usually up front and bold when I'm scum, and when I'm a PR. I'm just really tired from work these days, and drank more than I should on the weekend to "blow off steam." I really feel like Lynn was the investigation choice last night, for whoever the cop is.

I've already answered the question about Alec, so please read above, but just for tl;dr purposes, I suspected him based off the assumption that Carla was scum and that Alec was soft-defending her on Day Two.

I investigated you based on yesterday; as Desiree had made her claim and we had lynched Trenton (who I thought was scum number one), I decided to investigate the number three person on my list of suspicions, aka you. Read Day Two and Three; it's quite obvious that I at least somewhat suspected you. I had null-reads on the other three, so went for the scummiest person IMO with my action.

I have to reread it. I would have thought you were scummier than me though.

Well, if Theodore is "cleared" by not being seen killing, and Matthew is cleared by his investigation, then that would only leave me AND Derrick. Explain to me why it's an or situation. Especially since it's the wrong solution. I know that I'm town, which means, should we lynch the correct cop, Matthew or Theodore is the remaining scum.

I think what's going to be most telling of this is the treatment of Matthew, assuming we are able to continue after today. It's very plausible that he could be the godfather, which could account for the town result from the actual cop, whoever he may be, and the scum, knowing his role, "cleared" him to do so. What I find especially interesting about this is Matthew's assumption that he was investigated for being the most suspicious, which is weird knowing Matthew's past experience. Sure, Derrick says he was suspicious of Matthew, but Patti doesn't. With the amount of games under Matthew's belt, I would see a cop investigating him to gain a clear and earn a number. Granted, we're not allowed to contact others outside of public communication, so in this scenario all that gives us is, well, a number. So, Matthew, are you assuming Patti was also suspicious of you? Or was your response to that point directed solely towards Derrick?

I assumed Patti considered me most suspicious since she made a point of saying that's what the cop had to do. I think in a normal, long game, the cop can try to build up a town alliance in the first few days with 'useful' players, but that's crazy in a game where you may only get two nights to use a night action. I was aiming my comment more at Patti, but figure Derrick should answer too. As I said above, you were the one who should have been investigated. It's great to pin godfather on me, but actually, that would have been a cause for me to go super-townie in thread, and invite an investigation. And strange, you forget that Theodore could be godfather as well. The godfather stays home at night. My worst crime this game has been apathy, which as a semi-regular host, is kind of crappy of me, but I will be able to properly apologise to the host of this game later on.

[Dragonfire]

Here are quite a few posts from Day Three that explain why Matthew was third on my suspicions list (below Desiree and Trenton)

I said this:

I know - personally I'd be inclined to townread Patti, but I'd feel mad at myself if Carla was right and we didn't listen to her after her death.

And then he twisted my words and said this:

No no no. Carla had as much to go on with her accusation as anybody did with their votes on Carla. Lynching Patti cuz Carla said so is very very bad play.

Besides, there was this:

Matthew was the only person (apart from Carla herself) not to vote for Carla; at the time of his vote, there were five votes on Carla - not enough for a lynch but more than half of all possible votes. He also recognises the sheep aspects of Desiree's vote and wants to put pressure on Desiree. However, this could be an attempt to distance himself from the Carla vote, knowing that she would flip town.

And then I summed it up:

Yeah, I think you read it wrong. My ping on Matthew comes from two reasons: him saying I want to lynch Patti (which is untrue) and his distancing from the Carla wagon yesterday by voting Desiree. I agree with his reasons on Desiree, I just see the vote as slightly scummy.

So that, in a nutshell, is why I viewed Matthew as the scummiest living player last night.

[def]

You have pretty whiny comprehension of twisting words, since you made an issue of 'listening to Carla' and literally having no explanation when pressed on it.

[Piratedave84]

Well, if Theodore is "cleared" by not being seen killing, and Matthew is cleared by his investigation, then that would only leave me AND Derrick. Explain to me why it's an or situation. Especially since it's the wrong solution. I know that I'm town, which means, should we lynch the correct cop, Matthew or Theodore is the remaining scum.

I think what's going to be most telling of this is the treatment of Matthew, assuming we are able to continue after today. It's very plausible that he could be the godfather, which could account for the town result from the actual cop, whoever he may be, and the scum, knowing his role, "cleared" him to do so. What I find especially interesting about this is Matthew's assumption that he was investigated for being the most suspicious, which is weird knowing Matthew's past experience. Sure, Derrick says he was suspicious of Matthew, but Patti doesn't. With the amount of games under Matthew's belt, I would see a cop investigating him to gain a clear and earn a number. Granted, we're not allowed to contact others outside of public communication, so in this scenario all that gives us is, well, a number. So, Matthew, are you assuming Patti was also suspicious of you? Or was your response to that point directed solely towards Derrick?

Derrick, forgive me if I missed it, but why were you suspicious of Matthew? I don't recall him saying anything in particular that would have tipped off as scum. Other than the "clear", and perhaps his post I just addressed, I can't think of a reason in particular to investigate him. Would you mind pointing some specific phrases out?

sorry, it's (well was at this point) an "or" situation in the context of the lynch. You're right that's it's an "and" situation in the context of who's scum.

No, I was suspicious of Matthew's lack of contribution, his not wanting to take control and his general attitude in the situation. He did come across as particularly scummy BUT he was suspiciously low key.

Not a slip. By "townie" I was referring to a member of the town (which we all are) in that instance, not someone whose role is town.

huh ... if we're all town then WTF are we doing here exactly?? This sentence is weird ... so we're all town although some of us are town ... but really you're scum? right?

Theo's definitely not clear and Matthew isn't 100% clear.

Theo is closer to being confirmed than you are ... just saying.

What would you rather do? Play the odds and survive another day or give the game to the scum?

Desiree was certainly suspicious, but you made a big issue of Derrick not investigating the most suspicious in Alec. So you investigated me though you didn't think I was scummy? To be honest, I'm usually up front and bold when I'm scum, and when I'm a PR. I'm just really tired from work these days, and drank more than I should on the weekend to "blow off steam." I really feel like Lynn was the investigation choice last night, for whoever the cop is.

I have to reread it. I would have thought you were scummier than me though.

I assumed Patti considered me most suspicious since she made a point of saying that's what the cop had to do. I think in a normal, long game, the cop can try to build up a town alliance in the first few days with 'useful' players, but that's crazy in a game where you may only get two nights to use a night action. I was aiming my comment more at Patti, but figure Derrick should answer too. As I said above, you were the one who should have been investigated. It's great to pin godfather on me, but actually, that would have been a cause for me to go super-townie in thread, and invite an investigation. And strange, you forget that Theodore could be godfather as well. The godfather stays home at night. My worst crime this game has been apathy, which as a semi-regular host, is kind of crappy of me, but I will be able to properly apologise to the host of this game later on.

See above

Why Lynn? as far as I'm concerned anyone was good.

I assumed Patti considered me most suspicious since she made a point of saying that's what the cop had to do. I think in a normal, long game, the cop can try to build up a town alliance in the first few days with 'useful' players, but that's crazy in a game where you may only get two nights to use a night action. I was aiming my comment more at Patti, but figure Derrick should answer too. As I said above, you were the one who should have been investigated. It's great to pin godfather on me, but actually, that would have been a cause for me to go super-townie in thread, and invite an investigation. And strange, you forget that Theodore could be godfather as well. The godfather stays home at night. My worst crime this game has been apathy, which as a semi-regular host, is kind of crappy of me, but I will be able to properly apologise to the host of this game later on.

realistically there is a godfather BUT like I said earlier, at lynch-or-die we need to play the odds and lynch the most suspicious person (Derrick) that has yet to have any PR results on them. You may well be the godfather, or Derrick, or Lynn BUT we can't afford to lynch on a hunch here.

Derrick lied to us by claiming cop; I am the cop.

The bottom line is simple; lynch me and town loses, lynch Derrick and we have a shot at winning.

[Dragonfire]

I have to reread it. I would have thought you were scummier than me though.

This doesn't make sense. How would I look scummy to myself? How would you look scummy to yourself??

You have pretty whiny comprehension of twisting words, since you made an issue of 'listening to Carla' and literally having no explanation when pressed on it.

Let's not get into this again. I'm pretty sure you're town, and I don't want to waste time arguing with you when we could be catching scum. But as I said, I "listened to Carla", went back over Patti's posts and ended up townreading her, and therefore saw no reason to make a case on her. That's all redundant now though.

sorry, it's (well was at this point) an "or" situation in the context of the lynch. You're right that's it's an "and" situation in the context of who's scum.

No, it's not a freakin' "or" situation. It's an "or" situation between you and me for the lynch. Stop denying that you are one of the lynch candidates for today. Let's face it, nobody's gonna lynch Lynn when there's two cop claims.

huh ... if we're all town then WTF are we doing here exactly?? This sentence is weird ... so we're all town although some of us are town ... but really you're scum? right?

I mixed stuff up.I didn't slip, but I messed up by including two different meanings of townie in the same sentence, sorry if it's really confusing. I probably should have said "If you were a townie you should have realised that completely writing off another town-member/townsperson as town....." and so on. The problem is, what noun do you use to describe a player? "Townie" and "Town member/townsperson" mean two different things, and I mixed them up there. Sorry

We're all townspeople, but some of us have the alignment of town, except you and one other. That's what I mean.

Theo is closer to being confirmed than you are ... just saying.

Confirmed what? Confirmed town? This doesn't make sense.... if you were town you would know 100% that I am scum and therefore I would be confirmed scum from your PoV - and so more "confirmed-y" than everyone else. But you're not. So you're saying that I'm not confirmed scum from your PoV?

realistically there is a godfather BUT like I said earlier, at lynch-or-die we need to play the odds and lynch the most suspicious person (Derrick) that has yet to have any PR results on them. You may well be the godfather, or Derrick, or Lynn BUT we can't afford to lynch on a hunch here.

Derrick lied to us by claiming cop; I am the cop.

The bottom line is simple; lynch me and town loses, lynch Derrick and we have a shot at winning.

Again, you call me the "most suspicious person" when to you I should be confirmed scum. You're betraying yourself here because you're letting slip that you know I'm town. The WIFOM at the end doesn't help either: everyone knows it's lynch-or-lose and one of us is lying.

[Piratedave84]

This doesn't make sense. How would I look scummy to myself? How would you look scummy to yourself??

Let's not get into this again. I'm pretty sure you're town, and I don't want to waste time arguing with you when we could be catching scum. But as I said, I "listened to Carla", went back over Patti's posts and ended up townreading her, and therefore saw no reason to make a case on her. That's all redundant now though.

No, it's not a freakin' "or" situation. It's an "or" situation between you and me for the lynch. Stop denying that you are one of the lynch candidates for today. Let's face it, nobody's gonna lynch Lynn when there's two cop claims.

I mixed stuff up.I didn't slip, but I messed up by including two different meanings of townie in the same sentence, sorry if it's really confusing. I probably should have said "If you were a townie you should have realised that completely writing off another town-member/townsperson as town....." and so on. The problem is, what noun do you use to describe a player? "Townie" and "Town member/townsperson" mean two different things, and I mixed them up there. Sorry

We're all townspeople, but some of us have the alignment of town, except you and one other. That's what I mean.

Confirmed what? Confirmed town? This doesn't make sense.... if you were town you would know 100% that I am scum and therefore I would be confirmed scum from your PoV - and so more "confirmed-y" than everyone else. But you're not. So you're saying that I'm not confirmed scum from your PoV?

Again, you call me the "most suspicious person" when to you I should be confirmed scum. You're betraying yourself here because you're letting slip that you know I'm town. The WIFOM at the end doesn't help either: everyone knows it's lynch-or-lose and one of us is lying.

This whole thing is crazy I don't even know where to start ...

No, it's not a freakin' "or" situation. It's an "or" situation between you and me for the lynch. Stop denying that you are one of the lynch candidates for today. Let's face it, nobody's gonna lynch Lynn when there's two cop claims.

From my point of view, it's not. It's you or Lynn, well technically both, but for today as far as I'm concerned it's you.

I mixed stuff up.I didn't slip, but I messed up by including two different meanings of townie in the same sentence, sorry if it's really confusing. I probably should have said "If you were a townie you should have realised that completely writing off another town-member/townsperson as town....." and so on. The problem is, what noun do you use to describe a player? "Townie" and "Town member/townsperson" mean two different things, and I mixed them up there. Sorry

We're all townspeople, but some of us have the alignment of town, except you and one other. That's what I mean.

No, no; you said Theo was town because you know he is due to your being scum. Don't try and say otherwise; you slipped. You could have used player, person, participant, suspect, human, etc. you chose townie because you know he and I are town.

Confirmed what? Confirmed town? This doesn't make sense.... if you were town you would know 100% that I am scum and therefore I would be confirmed scum from your PoV - and so more "confirmed-y" than everyone else. But you're not. So you're saying that I'm not confirmed scum from your PoV?

Of course town, what did you think we were discussing here?

I really don't understand your statement here ... I don't know that you're town, I know you're scum based on your fake claim.

Please clarify

Again, you call me the "most suspicious person" when to you I should be confirmed scum. You're betraying yourself here because you're letting slip that you know I'm town. The WIFOM at the end doesn't help either: everyone knows it's lynch-or-lose and one of us is lying.

what .... did I not say 50 times I know you're scum? How did I ever imply, say or quoted that you were town?

Again please clarify.

[Scubacarrot]

Well that throws a stick in my plan of waiting to see who Lynn voted for... And voting for the other person.

[Piratedave84]

Well that throws a stick in my plan of waiting to see who Lynn voted for... And voting for the other person.

It's fine, just throw your stick at Derrick!!

Lynn's silence through all this is deafening!

[Scubacarrot]

If one of the cops changes their vote to Lynn we at least bag a scum today.

We'll still have the whole two cops one scum thing, but I feel like we're not getting closer. If Lynn gets lynched, Matthew will be killed tonight, and it will be me and the two cops tomorrow.

No lynch results in an automatic town loss. I'm going to go to bed soon, and then we're basically locked in. Matthew, what do you think?

[Piratedave84]

Derrick will not vote for his scum buddy.

[def]

I agree with that logic. Lynn is the scum we know. At the very least, the game can be postponed till tomorrow, though whoever is alive will be in the same situation, since it's guaranteed that both 'cops' will still be alive, and I bet both would jump on the lynch bandwagon to appear town. I'm leaning to Derrick being the real cop though. He's had erratic behavior, but I think it's just a matter of not being able to play. I think Patti is too smart to reveal she's the cop for no reason, unless she was convinced she could end the game by doing so.

Vote: Lynn (Trumpetking)

[Piratedave84]

I agree with that logic. Lynn is the scum we know. At the very least, the game can be postponed till tomorrow, though whoever is alive will be in the same situation, since it's guaranteed that both 'cops' will still be alive, and I bet both would jump on the lynch bandwagon to appear town. I'm leaning to Derrick being the real cop though. He's had erratic behavior, but I think it's just a matter of not being able to play. I think Patti is too smart to reveal she's the cop for no reason, unless she was convinced she could end the game by doing so.

Vote: Lynn (Trumpetking)

I'm not sure about this move; I'm not ready to let Derrick live seeing he's scum. From my point of view Derrick is the only confirmed scum.

This will turn into a no lynch and we will lose. Derrick is convinced I'm scum and I that he is so we will naturally vote for each other and Theo and you will vote for Lynn. Lynn will obviously not vote for herself.

We can't afford a no-lynch or a mis-lynch. I don't know what to say to settled this. I'm ready to incur the penalty and share my role PM with you.

[TrumpetKing]

I assumed Patti considered me most suspicious since she made a point of saying that's what the cop had to do. I think in a normal, long game, the cop can try to build up a town alliance in the first few days with 'useful' players, but that's crazy in a game where you may only get two nights to use a night action. I was aiming my comment more at Patti, but figure Derrick should answer too. As I said above, you were the one who should have been investigated. It's great to pin godfather on me, but actually, that would have been a cause for me to go super-townie in thread, and invite an investigation. And strange, you forget that Theodore could be godfather as well. The godfather stays home at night. My worst crime this game has been apathy, which as a semi-regular host, is kind of crappy of me, but I will be able to properly apologise to the host of this game later on.

Of course Theodore could be the godfather. I would say, however, that your "clearing" from both cops is a more poignant detail than his staying in at night, at least to me.

Lynn's silence through all this is deafening!

Hush, you! I've been working on being more vocal.

Worth note is both Theodore and Matthew's insistence that I'm scum.

I agree with that logic. Lynn is the scum we know. At the very least, the game can be postponed till tomorrow, though whoever is alive will be in the same situation, since it's guaranteed that both 'cops' will still be alive, and I bet both would jump on the lynch bandwagon to appear town. I'm leaning to Derrick being the real cop though. He's had erratic behavior, but I think it's just a matter of not being able to play. I think Patti is too smart to reveal she's the cop for no reason, unless she was convinced she could end the game by doing so.

I understand having suspicions of me, but I am far from confirmed to be scum, nor am I "the scum you know" following the same logic. We have one confirmed scum in Patti and Derrick and it baffles me that you're going to risk that to try to lynch me, when there is nothing that has confirmed me as scum other than your own opinions on me, most of which seem to be centered around my lack of speech. Also interesting to me is that you didn't seem to be quite on board with a lynch on me, or even mentioning that I'm "the scum we know" until after I brought you up as who I thought to be the godfather. Up until that point it seemed to be between Patti and Derrick for you. Your willingness to risk lynching a town member over two counterclaims (when one of them is confirmed to be scum) leaves me uncertain of your motives, especially when you suggest putting the focus off until tomorrow. By lynching me, there will not be a tomorrow. Assuming there are two scum, my lynch would bring the total down to 2-2. This obviously would mean game over for the town. Now, you obviously won't know I'm being honest until my lynch. That still shows, however, that you're willing to end the game now instead of try finding the scum between the two cop claims and going from there. Risking the end of the game would be much more understandable if you were voting between the counterclaims, but there is no true evidence that indicates my affiliation other than weak points brought up by Desiree yesterday.

As of now, I feel like Patti's calmed down from the initial claim and her theatrics, and I feel unsatisfied with Derrick's thoughts. As wary as I am of Matthew, I agree, he didn't really twist Derrick's words, and because of that, his central argument doesn't entirely work.

Vote: Derrick (Dragonfire)

[def]

Well, it looks like Lynn is willing to take a side now, very interesting. With that in mind, I agree we don't want a no-lynch. In the case that Derrick is afk, I will:

Unvote: Lynn (Trumpetking)

Vote: Patti (piratedave)

Between the unnecessariness of Patti's claim, her unwillingness to vote for Lynn, and Lynn's backing of her, I feel confident in this. If I end up losing the game for us, I'm very sorry in advance.

For the record Lynn, the reason it was between Patti and Derrick was because they both claimed the same roles, not because you were innocent.

[Darkdragon]

Vote Tally

Derrick (dragonfire) - 2 (piratedave84,TrumpetKing)

Patti (Piratedave84) - 2 (dragonfire,def)

You have about 5 hours left to vote.

[Dragonfire]

I agree with that logic. Lynn is the scum we know. At the very least, the game can be postponed till tomorrow, though whoever is alive will be in the same situation, since it's guaranteed that both 'cops' will still be alive, and I bet both would jump on the lynch bandwagon to appear town. I'm leaning to Derrick being the real cop though. He's had erratic behavior, but I think it's just a matter of not being able to play. I think Patti is too smart to reveal she's the cop for no reason, unless she was convinced she could end the game by doing so.

Vote: Lynn (Trumpetking)

Why Lynn over Theo?

As of now, I feel like Patti's calmed down from the initial claim and her theatrics, and I feel unsatisfied with Derrick's thoughts. As wary as I am of Matthew, I agree, he didn't really twist Derrick's words, and because of that, his central argument doesn't entirely work.

Vote: Derrick (Dragonfire)

Worst justified vote of the year. How are you "unsatisfied" with my thoughts? Why is the "twisting of words" suddenly now my central argument? Cause it's not. Weak, poorly justified vote and you vote with Patti - ergo, you are the last scum. Now it's down to Theo's vote who dies.

[Darkdragon]

There are 2 hours left in the day. I won't be able to lock the thread at that time, so know that any votes made after that time will not be counted and posts after that time will be very frowned upon.

[Scubacarrot]

Vote: Patti (PirateDave84)

I have to trust the cop result. If Matthew is a godfather, so be it.

[Darkdragon]

Final Vote Tally

Derrick (dragonfire) - 2 (piratedave84,TrumpetKing)

Patti (Piratedave84) - 3 (dragonfire,def,Scubacarrot)

With 3 votes, Patti has been chosen for today's lynch.

Get those night actions in!